“God’s War” by Kameron Hurley (BR)

[Mareike]

This is the BR thread for Kameron Hurley’s God's War, starting on Monday, June 27.

Please use chapter numbers and spoiler tags as you comment.

I peeked at the beginning of chapter one yesterday and (view spoiler)[Nyx sold her womb somewhere between Punjai and Faleen, on the edge of the desert. is a bold first sentence. (hide spoiler)] Kameron Hurley is not messing around.

[CBRetriever]

bugs again

[Mel]

I had this one marked as "maybe," since I tend to limit my dark fantasy. But looking at some of the quotes cinched it. Somehow after hearing the dystopian dumpsterfire news out of the US, I could use a badass woman rising up to crunch over the charred hellscape, surviving to fight another day.

Plus you're right. That opening hook. Kameron Hurley is not playing.

[Rick]

I have this and DNFed it long ago not because it was bad, but it was a "not the right time for this" thing. Nyx, though, is a badass and Hurley can WRITE. I've since read Apocalypse Nyx a series of connecting novelettes set after this book and featuring Nyx and it's outstanding so... I'm in.

[CBRetriever]

Rick wrote: "I have this and DNFed it long ago not because it was bad, but it was a "not the right time for this" thing. Nyx, though, is a badass and Hurley can WRITE. I've since read [book:Apocalypse Nyx|36489..."

I read that one and it was pretty good, but this first book didn't do it for me

[DivaDiane]

I started today.

[E.D.]

I'll give 'Gods War' a go. Probably start in about three days time.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I was on a long trip today and started listening to this. I am on Chapter 17. (I’m sorry I read through so much so quick- it was a VERY long day.)

I’m through Chapter 17:
(view spoiler)[I am SO LOST. This is a book I should have eye read instead of listening to.

There’s just sooo much worldbuilding and a lot of it is not making sense to me. As for the quote about the womb- that’s one of the things I don’t get. Reproduction certainly has some strict rules/cultures/customs surrounding it but I am having a lot of trouble making out what they are. And I know the Nishani and Chenys (I apologize for spelling in advance) are fighting, but I can’t really tell about what aside from religion? Seems like the Chenys take religion very seriously and the Nishani are a little more lax about it, but I don’t think that any specific differences have been named? It’s hard to tell because I know Nyx is noted as being somewhat atheist/agnostic.

I have no idea why everyone wants to get their hands on this Nicodam…

Nyx is definitely a bad ass and there are some cool fight scenes here but that’s all I’ve really gotten out of it at this point (I don’t even really understand why she was arrested in the first chapter).

I also wasn’t expecting the mix of fantasy and SF - I was expecting more SF so that through me for a loop. (hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

spoiler

spoiler

spoiler

(view spoiler)[people can and do sell their organs and body parts in this world (the womb is one) (hide spoiler)]

I can't imagine listening to this book and making sense out of it. It was confusing enough with eye reading as the world building goes very slowly

[Mel]

CBRetriever wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

Could you mark your spoiler with a chapter or place marking? Or is it for the entire book?

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

CBRetriever wrote: "spoiler

spoiler

spoiler

[spoilers removed]

I can't imagine listening to this book and making sense out of it. It was confusing enough with eye reading as the world building goes very slowly"

I’m glad to know it’s not just me then. I was feeling very dumb for awhile- and I know it wasn’t my listening skills because I finished two other audio books during this trip and was fine with them. 😂

(Again, through chapter 17 though this isn’t much of a spoiler it’s more about the world building)
(view spoiler)[
The cars/transportation things sound kind of cool (the Bacchies? I have no idea how it’s spelled). I’ve gathered that they’re organic in some way? Not quite living I don’t think because she mentioned popping the clutch but it sounds like they run on organic matter.

As for the organ selling- I gathered that but I just didn’t understand why- what is being done with the organs? They are sold for replacements to other people on the black market?

It’s like Hurley threw a bunch of cool stuff in here without giving us a reason for any of it to be happening. (hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

Melissa wrote: "CBRetriever wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

Could you mark your spoiler with a chapter or place marking? Or is it for the entire book?"

it's for the whole world in the book

[Mareike]

E.D. wrote: "I'll give 'Gods War' a go. Probably start in about three days time."

Looking forward to your updates!

Sarah wrote: "I was on a long trip today and started listening to this. I am on Chapter 17. (I’m sorry I read through so much so quick- it was a VERY long day.)

I’m through Chapter 17:
[spoilers removed]..."

Wow! That truly must have been a long day.

Rick wrote: "I have this and DNFed it long ago not because it was bad, but it was a "not the right time for this" thing. Nyx, though, is a badass and Hurley can WRITE. I've since read Apocalypse Nyx …

Let’s hope it works better for you this time around!


I just finished chapter one (view spoiler)[ and I am quite confused by the different factions and how they relate to each other, but I like in medias res beginnings and I assume things will become clearer soon. I do enjoy the worldbuilding so far. Cars running on bugs? That’s a new one for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

A more general thought I had last night before falling asleep (view spoiler)[I wonder if the “Bel Dame” title is a reference to “La Belle Dame Sans Merci” - the figure itself and/or the poem by Keats. I haven’t re-read the poem in a while, but from what I remember, it might fit thematically. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Mareike wrote: "A more general thought I had last night before falling asleep [spoilers removed]"

Oh that's cool- thanks for sharing! I'll have to read it again when I finish to see if I can make any more connections but yeah there could definitely be some correlation.

(And yes it was a 14 hour drive. The only reason I'm not finished yet is because I had two other audiobooks to finish first! Lol).

[Mel]

Read the first chapter, and realize it has been some time since I’ve been thrown into a story like that. I think This Is How You Lose the Time War. I need to search out a list of recommendations of other books that start out in medias res. Lovin’ the vibe so far. I love me a desert setting. Unique, but my brain likes to find associations. It’s giving me hints of The Unbroken, or City of Bones, or even a bit Ancillary Justice. All different, of course.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Melissa wrote: "Read the first chapter, and realize it has been some time since I’ve been thrown into a story like that. I think This Is How You Lose the Time War. I need to search out a list of recommendations of..."

It actually reminds me a little of her other book. She has a definite style.

[DivaDiane]

So I started it, and I’m really enjoying it. I already had to go back and read the first couple pages again and I’m not even through the first chapter yet.

[Mel]

Sarah wrote: "It actually reminds me a little of her other book. She has a definite style."

Ah! I just realized she wrote The Light Brigade! Also on my TBR. And The Mirror Empire... and The Geek Feminist Revolution. This is what happens is when I add books months apart. If it's a new author, I can have several books of theirs on my TBR without realizing it. I think I added 5 or 6 by T. Kingfisher before I finally caught a clue and binged.

Read chapter 2 and intrigued by the new character. Loving how worldbuilding jigsaw pieces click into place. Still barely finding the edge pieces though. ^_^

[Mel]

Finished Part 1 / Chapter 4
(view spoiler)[Damn, getting kind of dark there. I was warned about some shock-value gruesomeness, but the businesslike beheading of the boy was still a bit much.

I think the one thing that really sells an underbelly setting is the straight-talk between people screwing each other over. Bashir of the cantina. Raine. The Plague Sisters. The calm and casual demeanor paints betrayal as a reasonable course of action.
"How much am I going for?"
"About fifty."
Well, that was something.
I mentally inserted a little facial shrug there. Like, "Fair 'nough."

"Are you all they sent?" Nyx asked.
"Dahab's here," Rasheeda said absently. "Luce went for sodas."
Just catching up with some coworkers before they send you off to prison.
(hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Melissa wrote: "Sarah wrote: "It actually reminds me a little of her other book. She has a definite style."

Ah! I just realized she wrote The Light Brigade! Also on my TBR. And The Mirror Empire... and The Geek F..."

I really loved The Geek Feminist Revolution! That was actually the first thing by Hurley I ever read. I gave The Light Brigade three stars. I would agree that she has her own recognizable style.

[Mareike]

I am very slow this week because there‘s lots going on, but I just finished chapter 2 (view spoiler)[and I didn‘t expect a second POV. I do enjoy it do. It gives the world more depth. And I‘m extremely intrigued by that “alien” woman Rhys talked to at the end. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Finished chapter 12.
The plot has streamlined some, its direction clearer. For some reason I'm having a hard time pushing through, having to doggedly focus my eyes, unable to slip into the zone. but I think that's more me than the book itself. The writing itself is excellent.

Chapter 6
(view spoiler)[ "I'm not killing him for you, so you take him out back and shoot him or take your sixty."
The hunter pulled out her pistol and dragged her catch out the door. (hide spoiler)]
Oof. Stone cold.

Chapter7
(view spoiler)[ "When had she ever had a friend close enough to go to brothels with? Not since grade school." (hide spoiler)]
OMG.

Chapter 11
(view spoiler)["Nyx and Rhys both pulled off their hoods as they entered, and the bar matrons all lifted their heads from their beer glasses and opium pipes and plates of fried grasshoppers. The hush of low conversation in the dim room ceased, and the smoky air suddenly felt a lot heavier."
Hahaha, I can just hear that western standoff music play from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Just watch, next they burst into a rousing chorus of ♫My Little Buttercup♫ 😂 (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Chapter 15
(view spoiler)[I realized as they headed to see Taite's sister that I was getting anxious, anticipating a fridge trope. Considering all the other deaths, you'd think another wouldn't hurt, but specifically a character solely introduced as someone important to a man is different. Pregnant at that. Tragedy fodder. But then I reassured myself, "No, Hurley wouldn't do that." Behead a child maybe. Keep literal bodies in freezers. But not Kill Your Gays or Fridge Your Women." (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16
(view spoiler)["Nyx ducked and rolled under Husayn's right jab and threw a right uppercut to her body." Talk about narrative whiplash. Could have used a line break there to clarify the change in setting. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Sarah wrote: "I was on a long trip today and started listening to this. I am on Chapter 17."

Finished Chapter 17 so I can finally get in on that sweet spoiler action. 😏

Sarah I also liked the transportation worldbuilding with its organic components in place of petrol. Loved that Chapter 1 introduction: "Kine pulled up in a bakkie belching red roaches from its back end." (BTW a "bakkie" is just another another word for a pickup truck.)

(view spoiler)[Reproduction There are definitely some reproductive strictures going on. Birthing quotas, reproduction only allowed at government centers, getting pregnant naturally being illegal. What with all the bio-warfare, child mortality is absurdly high without inoculations, but the Nasheenian government only provides them for sanctioned births. Different practices for Chenjans, Mhorians, and Ras Tiegans, but I admit its hard to keep it all straight. I'm comfortable with the vague impressions though - don't need it all spelled out.

War I think the whole point is that you're supposed to feel the meaningless bleakness of it. There isn't a reason for it. Just your standard race-and-religion conflict. Senseless and stupid. (hide spoiler)]

[E.D.]

Finished Part One, Sort of following the story but more immersed in the atmosphere that's being created.
(view spoiler)[

Melissa wrote in message 20; Damn, getting kind of dark there. I was warned about some shock-value gruesomeness, but the businesslike beheading of the boy was still a bit much.

I have to agree, I did read some complaints about the violence in a few reviews I looked at while deciding whether to tackle this book. However, it's refreshing not to have come across any cheerful or over naive characters yet, that would be inappropriate for the setting.
I'm now looking forward to discovering where Nyx and Rhys end up, is her deal 'prison or an alternative mission' or have I missed something? I will read on.
(hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

One thing I love about reading culturally diverse SFF is that I pick up new bits of history or vocab. I admit I was unfamiliar with the word gutra. Seeing Wikipedia list it as one of a number of different names for a keffiyeh, I assumed they were just different Arabic dialects for the same head cloth. But in trying to figure out which term was used where, I discovered that they each referred to a distinct cloth. (Ghutra is the white type worn in Gulf states.)

https://www.arabamerica.com/the-keffi...

[Mel]

Curious what you all think.

Chapter 26
(view spoiler)[""Now," she said, "let's talk about what I can offer you for Nyxnissa's head- and the safety of you little white bitch."
Aw man. Khos is such a good guy. Loyal to so many, but man... that last line has got me thinking about his breaking point. He rescued Nyx from torture, and also seems to still have a thing for her. But he's been chafing at her not prioritizing getting Taite back, and they are like brothers. Plus he's promised to take responsibility for Inaya. With the brothel women as well, he takes responsibility and is protective of his people. But which people will matter most in the end?

What do you all think? Do you think he would trade in Nyx for Taite? Or perhaps double-double-cross Haj, making her think he's going to turn in Nyx? (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

I just finished Part One (view spoiler)[and I agree that the violence is a lot. Though given that people regularly get organ transplants and are apparently even brought back from (near-)death, it makes sense that Nyx seemd so….detached about it. That woman - and everyone else around her - as boatloads of trauma.
I still don’t quite understand the politics of Nasheenian society and why Nyx was apparently both a Bel Dame and a bountyhunter - or maybe she was a bountyhunter first and then a Bel Dame? - but I am fascinated by the world Hurley is creating. And Nyx and Rhys working together is gonna be interesting for sure. (hide spoiler)]

Edit:
@ Melissa: I agree. I didn’t know that differentiation before clicking on the link you posted.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Melissa wrote: "Curious what you all think.

Chapter 26
""..."

(Through Chapter 26)
(view spoiler)[
I agree that was an important chapter for Khos's development. Definitely had me seeing him in a different perspective than Nyx had previously portrayed him!
(hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Mareike wrote: "I just finished Part One"

(view spoiler)[Oh, I just love it when POVs collide! I'm trying to think of SFF examples, but the one that comes to mind is The Valley of Horses by Jean M. Auel, where the two leads spend 75% of the book apart, and when they finally meet--- (!) (I also was 11 when I first read it and less familiar with multiple POV, and was annoyed that the sequel had this random new character butting in on my beloved protagonist's story! Haha!)

But yes, tangent aside...
Definitely some society-wide trauma going on. Human rights? Never heard of 'im. Just... Oof. I have to be careful to compartmentalize as I read because if I start to relate too much it would be overwhelming. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

OMG, yes! (view spoiler)[I was….maybe 13 or 14 when I first read Valley of Horses and I remember waiting for the protagonists to meet. Other SF examples of I can think of where this was well done are Velocity Weapon and Doomsday Book.

Yeah, Human Rights are not en vogue on that planet. I really hope we learn more about its history as the book progresses. I want to know all the details. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Hey all. I paused for few days at Chapter 30. How're you all coming along?

Chapter 31
(view spoiler)[It was repeatedly foretold, but still the loss of Taite is grim. After being in that room with Nyx as she was tortured, to know that Taite suffered with no rescue. I wonder if he hoped for one, and when his hope died.

"Stand," He said softly. "Your son is yours, and no one else's. Don't deprive him of a mother because you're too scared to stand." I think about Khos gently touching the rapidly disintegrating photographs of a boy. Will we get more puzzle pieces of Khos's past? (hide spoiler)]

And there it is, the quote that drew me in:
(view spoiler)["The world could burn around her, the cities turn to dust, the cries of a hundred thousand fill the air, and she would get up after the fire died and walk barefoot and burned over the charred soil in search of clean water, a weapon, a purpose. She would rebuild." (hide spoiler)]

Oof. And that's it.
(view spoiler)[Khos's breaking point. Calling Haj to betray Nyx who would let them die like Taite. Everything about this chapter is so fucking good in its pain and climax. I want to quote it all.
"I wanted to go somewhere where the pain outside matched what I felt, here," he'd said, and touched his heart, and thought of his son. "A country at war with itself seemed like the best option." (hide spoiler)]
Me too, Khos. Me too.

Chapter 32
Aiya. Too much story is happening in this story.

Chapter 34
An eloquent "Fuck" indeed. I felt that one.

Chapter 35
(view spoiler)[I know this is supposed to come off as some kind of reveal to have Jaks back in the picture, but I'm more interested in the team dynamics and survival, rather than the particular people and obstacles they're up against. This match seems like a way to prolong things long enough to let Nyx escape, is my guess.

I'm glad the bit about Rasheeda playing both sides was spelled out for me, because I definitely hadn't been playing that close attention. (hide spoiler)]

[JasonReads]

I read it a couple of years ago and thought it was fine. Sometimes it felt like Kameron Hurley was trying too hard to make the story weird, or was overpacking the story, if that makes any sense.

I don't recall feeling the desire to read the next book in the series. Maybe I'll pick it up one day.

[E.D.]

Finished. I would rate this book as 4 star.

(view spoiler)[
If I have any argument with this book, it is the way that Hurley fits so many major political themes into one relatively short book, built around a core of fantasy adventure. The central event is the long going holy war between Nikodern and Chenia, ostensibly about disagreements on points of religious doctrine. I feel that at this level, it reads more like a civil war than one between nations. The war has not only affected the two combatants, who appear to be the planet’s major nations, but also all their neighbours. All possibility of progress appears to have been neglected by the needs of war, as the author evidences by the creeping expansion of the desert and the desperation of the civil populations.
However, it is soon made clear that there are many alternative reasons for the conflict. There is a strong racial element, the two groups are of different ethnicity. The relative rights of the differing groups appears to be dependent on their order of arrival on the planet as refugees from their original home world (Earth?). The other elephant in the room is gender. There is no doubt that Nikodern is a matriarchy, while Chenia appears a typical patriarchy.

What I liked about Hurley’s approach to the gender issue is that there is no claim of greater empathy or softness in the matriarchal society. The leading female characters remind me of the women of Sparta sending their sons off to war, and basically telling them not to bother coming back if they don’t win. Initially I thought the introduction of the pregnant Inaya meant that the author had softened and we were going to see a more traditional depiction of the ‘weak’ woman. I was soon surprised (as were the leading characters) at how she ended the book as possibly the most rational and unemotional player, accepting the abandonment of her brother by Nyx in the interests of her, and her son’s survival.
Apart from the need to restore battered bodies, and to give Rhys a purpose, I felt that the magical element of the story was almost irrelevant. While the emphasis on beheading (stops magically restoring someone to health I suppose), was over-emphasized for effect.

Where this book really excelled for me was in Hurley’s creation of atmosphere by description. Not so much visually but through the use of bugs and the sense of smell. I felt that I could feel her creation’s dry, hot and dusty environment. (hide spoiler)]

I also enjoyed that it ended at a suitable point. Working well as a single story while leaving things open for the second in the series.

[Silvana]

glad to see the book gets some appreciation here. this is one of my fave trilogies, so gutsy and gritty, really fun.

[Mel]

So I finished. Up until the last few chapters, I was also thinking I'd be fine taking this as a standalone. I've prefaced this book with just about everyone that it's darker than my usual fare. I frankly had to step away at times for a breather, or grit my teeth at times to get through a chapter.

But my goodness, those last few chapters got me and twisted my insides. In a good way. Part of me wants to stop to preserve this ending and this feeling... but then part of me is also desperate to go on.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I finished a few days ago too. I enjoyed it for the most part. I don’t think any of it really pulled at my heart strings the way it seems it did for other readers- the characters never really grew on me.

(view spoiler)[
Khos did, but then I didn’t know how to feel about him after the betrayal. I was happy he came through in the end. I was confused about how we were supposed to feel about Anaya, since she’s portrayed as weak and narrow minded early on but ends up being the hero. (hide spoiler)]

I think I chose the wrong format. I might have liked it more if I had read it instead of listening, but otherwise a decent read. Not sure if I’ll continue. I am curious about (view spoiler)[where Rhys ends up. Didn’t seem like we got any pay off with his arc after all that build up. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

I exclusively eye-read, so I can see how audio could alter your perception of things. I agree that it does end nicely in such a way that you can stop at the end of this book, which I appreciate.

Khos also drew my attention. (view spoiler)[Each member of the team had their own sense of morality and religion (or lack thereof), but it's hard to dislike someone who is loyal to their friends and keeps their promises. He's a dad. A protector. He smuggles refugees across borders - as good of a guy as you might expect to find in this business. So that betrayal did seem extreme. The way I saw it was that Khos was fulfilling his promise to Taite to keep Inaya safe. Haj offered him Inaya's safety in return for Nyx.

Why didn't he just take her and run without turning Nyx in to the Bel Dames? Especially since Anneke and Rhys would get caught too? Maybe it was simply the hardening of seeing his friend's head in a box, after repeatedly prompting Nyx to save him. Feeling like his loyalty had been misplaced all this time.

So when Inaya tells him she didn't asked to be saved, and he realizes they have to go back to save the team, that, "Fuck!" is so good. (hide spoiler)]

But the real reason I would want to read book 2:
(view spoiler)[I want to know what will happen to Rhys, and if he meets Nyx again. I admit I immediately checked out an ebook of "Infidel" from the library and searched for his name to see if he'd feature. Because damn, if my sentimental heart doesn't latch onto two characters with a connection never seeing each other again.

I just love the way they are described. "He's still god full, and I'm still godless." They hold each other's views in disdain. And yet. When she is dying she needs to confess her sins to him. She couldn't drop him to run and save herself, not like she did to her boys before. She calls him to read aloud to her. Rhys explicitly states he has no love for her. And yet, he respects her bravery going to war whereas he was too afraid. He absolutely should have gotten in that bakkie with Khos, but once he does, it's too quiet. It's a connection reluctantly formed against their own will, but still, when they part, there is a hollow lack where the other once was.

*groans*
*puffs at candy cigarette* And for whatever twisted reason, that's my shit. (hide spoiler)]

[DivaDiane]

I’m afraid I’m moving very slowly. I have just started Part 2 and am looking forward to reading all the comments. I’m glad it’s mostly positive. I am really enjoying it, I just don’t have much time for eye-reading. If I have t finished it in a week (likely) I’ll have more time from the 15th!

[Mareike]

I’m also very slow. It’s been a busy week and what little reading time I had went into stuff I’m reading for work. But I hope to get back to this soon.
Like Diane, I’m looking forward to catching up on everyone’s thoughts.

[Rick]

If you want to read more... check out Apocalypse Nyx, set between this book and the next full book, Infidel

[CBRetriever]

Rick wrote: "If you want to read more... check out Apocalypse Nyx, set between this book and the next full book, Infidel"

I've read that one: Apocalypse Nyx. I liked it better than the first book in the series

[Mareike]

Had some uninterrupted reading time today and read up to and including chapter 27 and (view spoiler)[I really like that all the factions and alliances still aren‘t clear. And keeping us guessing as to whether Khos has sold Nyx out or not is a really good move in terms of keeping tension high!
I also really want to know how shifters and magicians came to be and what Nyx‘s sister was involved in. (hide spoiler)]

Speaking of Khos (view spoiler)[I have been enjoying his POV chapters/sections. He adds a very interesting perspective to the mix (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Chapter 33 (view spoiler)[Well, that was an interesting backstory drop for Nyx. This explains why she was so set on her team not attacking the soldiers searching the house they were hiding in and why she called them „our boys.“
It‘s interesting that she became a bel dame after this, though, where her whole job was hunting down male deserters….
Some kind of weird projection? (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

I finished earlier today and I enjoyed this book a lot. I wouldn‘t say I loved it, but I definitely enjoyed it.
There was A LOT going on and I think it‘ll be interesting to re-read it eventually.

One thing that was being discussed in the SFFBC Discord yesterday was how people define „a feminist book“ and I thought that‘s an interesting question to ask about this book.

Personally, I‘d say yes, it is a feminist book because (view spoiler)[it deals with different kind of gendered power structures in the different societies and how they affect people, but also how people can change - that‘s most obvious for Rhys, maybe. But also Taite‘s sister and the different choices she makes to stay safe. (hide spoiler)]

Early on, I was a little (view spoiler)[worried the worldbuilding would lean too heavily on orientalist stereotypes, but the fact that Nikodem seems to be from a fundamentalist Christian sect kind of counteracted how heavily the different societies on the planet are inspired by different past or contemporary Muslim societies. (Plus some „What if women took power in a society like that“ for Nasheen.) (hide spoiler)]

I plan on reading the other books and maybe learn some more history about how people got to Nyx‘s planet, but also some of the other planets.