Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
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[2023] Wild Discussion
Katie wrote: "Can someone explain why a trope is something you would want? I thought a trope is something that is overused, or trite, like a cliche'. I remember learning that you should avoid them in your writin..."With the way people use the word these days -- tropes are just literary building blocks, elements of plot, character, setting, etc., that are recognizable and identifiable. They're not good or bad in and of themselves, that's just about how they're used. (And they're also kind of unavoidable in storytelling, you'd be hard-pressed to find a work of fiction that is somehow so truly original that it avoids all recognizable plot/character/whatever types!) The idea of the Chosen One, for instance, a really really commonly used plot/character type in fantasy especially (Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, etc) can still be a great story element in a good writer's hands, or it can be the most eye-rollingly cliché kind of book, if the writer doesn't do a good job with it.
Lots of readers know tropes they often like, and those they typically don't enjoy reading (even if relatively well-written); for example, when it comes to romance novels, I happen to really enjoy the fairly common fake dating plot trope, so if someone has identified a book as using that kind of plot, I'm more likely to read it, but I hate everything I've ever read that did some kind of surprise pregnancy, so even if the writer is probably good at it, I might steer clear anyway. When I feel like the writer themself is being kind of clever and genre-aware about their writing, I find the use of even the most old-fashioned, over-used feeling tropes can be fun - there's a moment in Down Comes the Night, which is doing a lot of classic gothic storytelling things, when the protagonist hears mysterious cries in the night in the big old isolated mountain mansion she's found herself trapped in, and she picks up a candelabra with her flowing white nightgown to go search the halls. It's such an immediately recognizable kind of image, and could easily feel like an overused cliche, but it feels, to me at least, so deliberate and delicious and, like, exactly what I wanted out of this kind of gothic fantasy romance book.
Katie wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Interesting that so many people are against specific genres for next year. 2020 had 5 genre prompts - fantasy, genre that starts with a letter in your name, classic, hi..."I don’t remember what sub genres we found for K but there were some though you could pick any letter from your name not just your first initial. I think, I used N since it is in my first, middle and last name.
Roxana wrote: "Katie wrote: "Can someone explain why a trope is something you would want? I thought a trope is something that is overused, or trite, like a cliche'. I remember learning that you should avoid them ..."Thanks for the explanation. When I was young I liked Insta-love and fated-lovers, now I appreciate a slow burn. Orphaned protagonists were always more sympathetic in classic books (Jane Eyre). I still fall for it, even though it's not as realistic now.
The genre letter would be convenient for me. I would read a book on journalism. Goodreads calls it a genre now, and it's one of my favorite topics.
Thomas wrote: "Dalex- please enlighten me, how are apocalyptic not dystopia? I get that it can be dystopian without the apocalypse but why isn’t apocalypse dystopian?"I haven't seen a reply yet from Dalex, so in the meantime, from Google -
Dystopian fiction is a genre describing an imaginary place where life is extremely bad because of deprivation or oppression or terror.
Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction are subgenres of science fiction that are set in a time period where the earth as we know it is coming to an end. Post-apocalyptic novels almost always take place in the future, although some describe the end of past civilizations that no longer exist.
Seems to me the main difference is Dystopian is set in an imaginary place, Apocalyptic is set in a real place.
I don't believe dystopias need to be made up places. We all agree 1984 is dystopian right? That's set in the UK, but the future is the imagined part. Which is now the past, but we sometimes feel like we're getting there a few decades late. Instead of the Two Minutes Hate, we just have social media.From my understanding, a dystopia reflects undesirable societal or political issues, eg. an authoritarian government cracking down on women's rights so that life is unbearable for those affected.
Post-apocalyptic fiction usually has societal breakdown, rather than a strict society. It's often about survival. However it can be about rebuilding society or you can have a dystopian society built upon the post-apocalyptic world.
The big boom in YA dystopia muddied the waters a bit as a lot of that wasn't very sociopolitical. So a lot of people use dystopia wrong, though it doesn't bother me as much as it does dalex! :)
NancyJ wrote: "Ellie, I think you read a lot of books that I consider literary fiction. I see your reviews a lot. Would you vote for a Literary fiction prompt?..."This made me laugh, since I don't think I read much, but yeah I do like literary sci-fi a lot (well when the author's not being a snob about it). It would depend on what else is in the poll. I wouldn't downvote it though.
Goodreads is being weird this morning, I thought it was eating all my comments, but it was just hiding them from me?!For the Asian prompt I like an author from the Asian diaspora best.
Copy/pasting this from the voting thread (where it got zero responses so I think it got lost):Dystopian fiction is a subgenre of speculative fiction. It is not the same as apocalyptic and post apocalyptic fiction.
“Dystopian novels typically focus on the impact of the imperfect society on the characters. Writers will use that framework to explore the effects of racism, classism, sexism, and resistance.
Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic stories tend to follow characters trying to survive a devastated landscape. If the disaster or catastrophe occurs during the course of the story, then the novel is termed apocalyptic. If the event has already happened, it is post-apocalyptic.”
https://www.nypl.org/blog/2019/12/19/...
I hope people understand when voting for this prompt that not just any end-of-the-world type book will qualify. I wish the prompt had been presented as a more umbrella term that encompassed all types of end-of-the-world scenarios
Katie wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Interesting that so many people are against specific genres for next year. 2020 had 5 genre prompts - fantasy, genre that starts with a letter in your name, classic, hi..." What genre starts with a K?
I feel your pain about genres and the letter K. Last time there was this prompt, I cheated and went with Killer, Serial because I wasn't about to read a book on Kinesthesiology! ;-)
Mod
Dystopian fiction is a subgenre of speculative fiction. It is not the same as apocalyptic and post ap..."
I appreciate these clarifications but - In ATY, if you say it counts, it counts. A looser interpretation could come under the KIS option. We can't force people, many of whom don't read these threads, to follow any official definition for any of the prompts.
I am fine with the initial because I could read Romance or Realistic Fiction.
Robin- thank you. I’d be fine with the initial too cos I have thrillers but I still think it’s unfair on some people
Again, the prompt in 2020 was any letter in your name. So for Thomas, you could use Historical Fiction.
Nancy- my apologies. Well that’s another. I’d vote for that
Judy wrote: "Genres - keeping it simpleRead a Science-fiction or fantasy book
Read a book that you consider a thriller
Read a book shelved as literary fiction
Read a non-fiction book"
I could vote for any of these... and think we DO need more genre prompts (even with the addition of a western thanks to the Sherri).
Mod
Kontemporary?
Mod
Help me place the prompts! Any recommendations on where prompts should go on the final list?
Some examples: ghost story in October, keep the multiweek prompts together, published in 2023 at the end of the year, etc.
Joy D wrote: "I think Asian diaspora covers the idea without limiting it to America or the UK."Doesn't diaspora mean people "forced" to leave their country (and initially referring to Jews). I wasn't sure what diaspora meant, so looked the definitions. Do the people suggesting this prompt mean to only include Asians "forced" to settle outside Asia? I thought some of the intent was to acknowledge the discrimination that has occurred for many Asians in light of the pandemic. Most of the Asians I know were not forced to relocate, but chose to... in some cases many generations ago.
I’ve always understood diaspora to just mean people that “dispersed” from their homeland. So it can be people that were forced to leave (possibly a book where the characters are refugees) or people that have left voluntarily.
Judy wrote: "Thanks Nadine. Do you have a preference? I want to submit a genre prompt this week.SFF
Literary Fantasy
Non-fiction..."
Personally, I'm good with any of those! But I know there are members who balk at the sight of SFF and others who balk at literary fiction, so I am worried.
I don't know if you meant "literary fiction" or "literary fantasy" there? Literary fantasy would be an interesting choice, it's limiting, but there are a lot of fantastic books that fall under that subgenre, such as The Shadow of the Torturer, Spinning Silver, The Fifth Season, The Sky Is Yours, The Buried Giant, Magic for Beginners, The Left Hand of Darkness, & Black Leopard, Red Wolf
Pamela wrote: "Katie wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Interesting that so many people are against specific genres for next year. 2020 had 5 genre prompts - fantasy, genre that starts with a letter in your nam..."Pamela wrote: "Kontemporary?"
This inspired me to have a play with Google Translate - maybe you could read something in a genre beginning with K in a different language, translated from that language. Google says Kēhuàn xiǎoshuō is Science Fiction in simplified Chinese, so you could read something like The Three-Body Problem :)
NancyJ wrote: "It's funny how authors get caught up with specific descriptions ..."Yes!! They really need an editor to say "look, you've already used this phrase twenty times, find a different descriptor!"
Does anyone have a problem with the letter-in-your-name genre prompt, since we did it in 2020? It's been 3 years and I think that's enough of a gap. Plus it's pretty open so you could use a different genre.
Emily wrote: "We are down to just 9 prompts remaining to add to our list, and I've started working on building out the final order.Help me place the prompts! Any recommendations on where prompts should go on t..."
I always liked that AYT puts the year prompt (a book published in the current year) at the end and not the beginning because books are published through out the year, library holds, etc. I often get it in the fall.
I personally like multi-week being held together. Ghost in October sounds great.
Random thoughts:
School subject in Sept? Back to school
Inter-racial in Jan? For MLK's birthday
Debut in Jan and 7 books in late fall? Beginning and more complete
NPR later in year so that we might have a 2023 list to pick from too?
Alicia wrote: "I’ve always understood diaspora to just mean people that “dispersed” from their homeland. So it can be people that were forced to leave (possibly a book where the characters are refugees) or people..."That's how I see it too. It does not have to mean forced. It's just "dispersed" - it could be forced or it could be voluntary.
Nancy wrote: "Does anyone have a problem with the letter-in-your-name genre prompt, since we did it in 2020? It's been 3 years and I think that's enough of a gap. Plus it's pretty open so you could use a differe..."I found it extremely challenging to find a genre that starts with N-A-D-I-N-E Yes, there are some, and I guess I could just read a noir mystery or detective fiction, so I wouldn't downvote it.
Emily wrote: "We are down to just 9 prompts remaining to add to our list, and I've started working on building out the final order.Help me place the prompts! Any recommendations on where prompts should go on t..."
Some thoughts:
- 'A book related to pride' in June
- 'A character that might be called a Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, or Spy' in September because the movie came out on Sept 15
- 'A novella' after 'A book that is dark' as a bit of an easier prompt after something that might be a difficult read (based on how people interpret it)
- A book with a con, deception, or fake for April 1st
- A book connected to birds, bees, or bunnies in the spring
- A book by an author from continental Europe - for some reason I feel like this would be funny to have near July 4th lol
Also, I wanted to say, I don't think the prompt list has the bigger version of an animal prompt listed.
If we aren’t trying to be funny. How about the continental Europe one around May for VE Day or for an anniversary of the EU
Nadine you could use your last name too. I used non-fiction last time and would probably do that again since I don't read as much non-fiction as I'd like.Interracial relationship would be great for February, both for Valentine's Day (and yes I realize it doesn't have to be romantic relationship) and Black History Month.
Body of water in the title - during summer? This feels like a beach/summer read
Tropical setting - same, summer
Involves a murder - October?
Definitely agree that published in 2023 and Best Books of the Month should be at the end of the year.
Suggestion that didn't make the list - early in the year while the 2022 challenge is still fresh in people's minds
Mahi wrote: "A book by an author from continental Europe - for some reason I feel like this would be funny to have near July 4th lol..."Um, Britain isn't part of continental Europe so this would be random rather than funny.
Ellie- what’s Britain got to do with July 4th?
July the 4th is independence day. Said independence being from Britain.I still think it would be quite funny, though! America wasn't just colonized by the British, after all, even if independence day is mainly celebrating victory over the British.
Maybe we should see if any continentals have suggestions on that one
Well, July *14* is Bastille Day, right? So you were close, with July 4 😉
New Idea:“Librarians on the loose”
Books about librarians or booksellers when they are not behind the check out desk. The prompt may not say it all (no mention of the booksellers), but I love how it sounds.
This listopia may have books that wouldn't fit, but it is a fairly good list of librarian books. Non-fiction (including memoir), romance, adventure, etc.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/5...
Examples:
Memoir about all the strange things that happen in public libraries: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
A librarian and a pastor save a young boy by kidnapping him: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9...
Unexpected type of librarian job: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
True story of librarians who have to save books from Al Qaeda (a la Ocean’s Eleven): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
A bookstore that is not what it seems: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Thomas wrote: "Maybe we should see if any continentals have suggestions on that one"Norway's national day is in May. I think Poland's is too. I liked your reasoning about VE day, which affected a lot of continental countries.
Tracy wrote: "New Idea:“Librarians on the loose”
Books about librarians or booksellers when they are not behind the check out desk. The prompt may not say it all (no mention of the booksellers), but I love ho..."
Tracy, I love your idea and definitely would up vote it. It might be hard to get enough votes since we already have the prompt “a book where books are important.”
Nancy wrote: "Nadine you could use your last name too. I used non-fiction last time and would probably do that again since I don't read as much non-fiction as I'd like.Interracial relationship would be great f..."
I agree with all of Nancy's suggested prompt placements. I would add that another good place for Body of Water (if there's no room for it in the summer) would be April as it's typically seen a s a rainy month (not where I live, but at least in the phrase "April showers bring May flowers").
I would also add the following suggestions:
1) Character/person with a disability: March, as it's Disability Awareness month and libraries promote books on this topic.
2) Books with a "W" Award, and Books with a "W" word: kind of random, but since there aren't any months that start with W, then maybe March and May (M being an upside down W) ;)
3) A book that is light: some time in Daylight Savings Time, or from Spring Equinox through Fall Equinox.
4) Likewise, A book that is dark: some time in Standard Time, or from Fall Equinox to Spring Equinox.
Edit: missing punctuation
Jillian wrote: "Tracy wrote: "New Idea:“Librarians on the loose”
Books about librarians or booksellers when they are not behind the check out desk. The prompt may not say it all (no mention of the booksellers),..."
I can see the connection, but I was hoping to focus on the adventures of librarians. Of course some of those adventures involve books... Maybe for next year?
Katie wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Interesting that so many people are against specific genres for next year. 2020 had 5 genre prompts - fantasy, genre that starts with a letter in your name, classic, hi..."Haha! I had a big problem with that one too, and I finally read a children's classic and called it 'kidlit.' Lame, yes, but I figured it was close enough. I certainly hope it doesn't get in again this year.
Tracy wrote: "New Idea:“Librarians on the loose”
Books about librarians or booksellers when they are not behind the check out desk. The prompt may not say it all (no mention of the booksellers), but I love ho..."
Love this! I think it's different enough from the book where books are important. It's a whole new angle.
Edie wrote: "Joy D wrote: "I think Asian diaspora covers the idea without limiting it to America or the UK."Doesn't diaspora mean people "forced" to leave their country (and initially referring to Jews). I wa..."
Edie, diaspora does not mean forced. At least in current/modern usage, "Asian diaspora" just refers to Asians who live outside of their home country. I would count a Korean author living in Japan as still being a Korean diaspora author since they don't live in Korea.
I like the letter-in-your-name genre prompt. The BIO option can be to use the first letter of your name, and the KIS could be to use any letter in your first, middle, or last name. I wouldn't vote for a version that specifies the first letter of our first name because I'd be limited to inspiration, lol.
@Mods, when does the BIO/KIS thread typically go up?
Tracy, I think it is worth trying this year but if it does not make it definitely save it as an idea for next year.
Librarians on the loose is a definite downvote for me. A book about books is enough!
Mod
Interracial relationship would be great f..."
I think tropical would be a great escape prompt in winter! I always complain about calendars that show me snow scenes in winter. I can see that by looking outside!
Karen wrote: "Haha! I had a big problem with that one too, and I finally read a children's classic and called it 'kidlit.' Lame, yes, but I figured it was close enough. I certainly hope it doesn't get in again this year."Genres with the letters in KAREN:
Adventure
Adult Fiction
Environmental fiction (aka cli-fi)
Religion
Romance
Realistic fiction
Nonfiction
New adult
Noir
And then of course there's your last name.
Robin P wrote: "I think tropical would be a great escape prompt in winter! I always complain about calendars that show me snow scenes in winter. I can see that by looking outside!"Totally agree Robin, and I did think about that too! Maybe for January, when post-holiday doldrums is setting in?
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Around the Year in 52 Books
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What genre starts with a K?