Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
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[2023] Wild Discussion
Ellie wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Tthoughts on this idea?An author that lives (around, almost, nearly?) 2023 miles of you
https://milesofme.com/..."
Half my line is in the sea, another quarter is Russia and I'm ..."
I guess it depends on where you live. For me it would be more interesting if the author was from MORE THAN 2023 miles from home, as the list of locations 2023 miles or closer is a good chunk of the US and a lot of Mexico, so I'd easily be reading these authors without trying. I'd rather broaden my scope.
I would avoid any disability prompt this year. The acceptable language and terminology are changing on a monthly basis and you are bound to upset someone.
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An author that lives (around, almost, nearly?) 2023 miles of you
https://milesofme.com/..."
Half my line is in the sea, another quarter is R..."
Yes, that was my intention also. I do like the tie-in to 2023.
Ann wrote: "I would avoid any disability prompt this year. The acceptable language and terminology are changing on a monthly basis and you are bound to upset someone."Is this wording likely to get settled this year, or is this something ALWAYS up for discussion, like a lot of terminology used to describe a specific group of people? I don't know that there is ever a time when *everyone* is happy with anything.
Maybe if the prompt is prefaced with a note indicating that "we are attempting to use the most current/acceptable language"?
Ann wrote: "I would avoid any disability prompt this year. The acceptable language and terminology are changing on a monthly basis and you are bound to upset someone."Excluding the prompt on this basis alone doesn't sit well with me - it feels a bit like saying "oh disability is too complex, so let's ignore it". I'm sure that wasn't your intention but personally, I'd rather have a prompt that encourages people to broaden their minds on the topic of disability, even if the wording is clunky, than leave the topic out completely.
Acceptable words around disability has been an ongoing conversation for decades and it won't be solved soon. There's disagreement within the community, with some disabled people preferring 'people first' language (i.e. "person with a disability") and others finding it patronising. That doesn't mean everyone should stop talking about disabled people until a consensus has been reached.
The word that Beyoncé used in her recent song and was criticised for is one I was taught at primary school not to use, back in the 90s. However, the message filters out slowly so some people are only just learning what terms are unacceptable. The fact that Beyoncé listened, apologised and is re-recording the song is a positive step. So long as we are open to listening to challenge, willing to apologise and make amends, and clearly trying to promote inclusion, then I think it's okay to include the prompt.
I absolutely agree that we shouldn't avoid a disability prompt because it might offend somebody. Yes, the language is always changing and evolving... But so is the language about everything! As long as everybody is respectful and tries their best to listen, I think it could be a really fun prompt.
Tracy wrote: "Aimee wrote: "As someone who is both disabled and neurodivergent, the wording "a character with a disability or who is neurodivergent" is fine with me, but I'm aware there is a huge amount of discu..."As somebody who is neurodivergent myself, I think the "OR who is neurodivergent" is maybe a little redundant? Might just be a UK thing, but being neurodivergent is seen as a disability here too.
Love the prompt though! And I think throwing it as open as possible would definitely be a good thing.
Siobhan wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Aimee wrote: "As someone who is both disabled and neurodivergent, the wording "a character with a disability or who is neurodivergent" is fine with me, but I'm aware there is a huge a..."Fair point! I have ADHD as well as a physical disability so I think of them separately, but you're right someone with (for example) ADHD would definitely count as disabled under the Equality Act. I'm also UK-based though, so I'm aware it might be different in the US.
Would it be offensive to simply say "a character with a disability"? Or for clarity for people who don't read the comments "a character with a physical or mental disability"?
Shannon SA wrote: "Would it be offensive to simply say "a character with a disability"? Or for clarity for people who don't read the comments "a character with a physical or mental disability"?"I personally don't think it would be, but am obviously interested in hearing what other people think. I think on balance I prefer the wording of the second option, just for clarity!
My first thought was to suggest An Author Greater than 2023 miles from you. I'm not even sure why I decided against it. I prefer it as greater than too.
°~Amy~° wrote: "My first thought was to suggest An Author Greater than 2023 miles from you. I'm not even sure why I decided against it. I prefer it as greater than too."I like this better too, since I enjoy reading authors from around the world.
I was in a challenge last year that involved large distances. The farthest you could get (from any direction) would be to the other side of the world - your antipode. From New York, the Antipode turns out to be in the Ocean closest to Perth Australia. Not China - which is where we tried to dig to as kids. I learned a lot about geography!China and Chile are antipodes
New Zealand and Spain are antipodes.
I would love a challenge that required you to go more than X miles. I never did read a book from Perth, but I read a weirdly haunting book from Tasmania.
I had a very easy map calculator. I'll post it when I get back later.
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I'm on my way to the library and I remembered a prompt that I wish I had this year:
Read a book about indigenous people
What scope do you think would be best? "About" or "Involving" or "author" or 'Main character" or "author or character."
e.g. Native Americans, First nations in Canada, Aboriginals in Australia, or other original groups marginalized by colonists or invaders. For instance, India in 1900 was controlled by Britain, and books about the Independence movement (Ghandi) are really interesting. The Perveen Mistry series is starting to mention Ghandi.
This year I planned to read more books by Louise Erdrich, but haven't yet.
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If you'd done a better job at digging, you would have learned it as a kid without having to learn online!
Would one think of Gandhi and others as "indigenous"? I guess technically they are but I would not have thought about them with that prompt. What about a prompt with colonizers in it somehow?
One always needs to read Louise Erdrich, although I don't always love her books. I am thinking as we have no list prompts of nominating a book from Tookie's booklist from the Sentence.
I love to read books from different countries and cultures. What about "A book that has been translated from another language?"
I would enjoy a prompt to read a book either written by an indigenous author or featuring an indigenous character.I also enjoy books that have been translated from another language.
I'd be slightly more interested in reading a book with an indigenous main character as opposed to an indigenous author. But I think both could make for really interesting prompts!I'd also love a prompt centred around reading a book translated from another language. It'd be an excellent excuse to read more Japanese crime novels!
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Emily wrote: "I'd rather "involving" or "with an indigenous main character" rather than "about". And I'd vote for it, for sure. We had this prompt a while back, and I read Trail of Lightning, and..."To leave it open for a non-fiction book, would this work?
A book with an indigenous main character or author.
(This might not cover all non-fiction, but some.)
Emily, I can't remember if you liked The Sentence, but I remembered that you liked Firekeeper's Daughter .
BTW, for anyone who needs a book for Week 39 - A book from the TIME list of 100 Best YA Books, Firekeeper's Daughter is very good.
We had the Warwick Prize for women in translation in 2021. I believe it was a read-a-thon or summer challenge winner who chose that. I would vote for another translation prompt but others might not want one so soon.
Yes, I can confirm I was one of the lucky winners that year, and picked the Warwick Prize. Fun prompt for me personally, and hopefully others as well. But I guess also quite a lot didn’t enjoy it. I don’t think it would have had a chance in an ordinary poll though, lol ;)
Shannon wrote: "I love to read books from different countries and cultures. What about "A book that has been translated from another language?""I would love a translated book. We didn't get this prompt in last year, but maybe we should all share our favorites when it gets nominated. I fell in love with A Man Called Ove without even realizing it was a translated book - from Swedish to at least 25 different languages. That book is a lot friendlier than War and Peace.
Swedish and Japanese translated books are very popular right now.
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
@Robin - I didn't read your post before I started writing. We're in full agreement on this!
Pamela wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "I was in a challenge last year that involved large distances. The farthest you could get (from any direction) would be to the other side of the world - your antipode. From New York, ..."Did you have a link to the full list of Tookie's books? I photocopied it from a library book, but I think I only typed up the short list of Perfect Short Novels. I don't know if anyone who hasn't read the Sentence would be as excited as you and I are.
Aimee wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Aimee wrote: "As someone who is both disabled and neurodivergent, the wording "a character with a disability or who is neurodivergent" is fine with me, but I'm aware t..."I'm not sure where I first had the idea to list them separately, but my public library is highlighting books on this topic, and THEIR description of these books is:
"Disability Visibility: Disability & Neurodivergence"
NEW TOPIC SUGGESTION:"A book involving (or a book with a title including?) at least one of the 5 senses, or related words" — E.g., SIGHT: vision, view, look, see, saw; HEARING: sound, hear, listen, heard; SMELL: scent, sniff, odor; TASTE: flavor, savor, relish; TOUCH: feel, pressure, graze, stroke, etc.
Hilde wrote: "Yes, I can confirm I was one of the lucky winners that year, and picked the Warwick Prize. Fun prompt for me personally, and hopefully others as well. But I guess also quite a lot didn’t enjoy it. ..."I loved it! I read Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead and it was a very fun and memorable read. It's so different than most of the other books I was reading. The selection was more limited (because it was a literary award) than the prompt we're proposing now. So if someone says it's too soon for that prompt, we might point out that it's a much broader prompt.
I wonder what I would pick if I won that drawing. Maybe literary fiction. I suspect that many people are reading a lot more literary fiction than they know, and some readers are very generous when giving books literary fiction tags. Classics tags too. In another group we were shocked to see how many recent best sellers were tagged classics, e.g. The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo.
I hated the Warwick Prize prompt (it was a more literary fiction leaning than worked for me) but I would be totally for a 'book in translation' prompt
Tracy wrote: "NEW TOPIC SUGGESTION:"A book involving (or a book with a title including?) at least one of the 5 senses, or related words" — E.g., SIGHT: vision, view, look, see, saw; HEARING: sound, hear, liste..."
I like this idea. I don't have a preference on involving vs. title. I immediately think of psychics or mediums which are sometimes characters in paranormal cozy mysteries I read.
I tried Drive Your Plow and just couldn't get into it. I ended up reading Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982, which I liked some things about it but not others. It was odd, let's just say, and not necessarily in a good way. I liked the idea behind the prompt but when it came down to it there weren't many books I wanted to read that fit.
°~Amy~° wrote: "My first thought was to suggest An Author Greater than 2023 miles from you. I'm not even sure why I decided against it. I prefer it as greater than too."Is it "author" rather than "country" because we need more author prompts? I would find it easier to find a country on the map than an author.
Here is the easy distance calculator. If you put a country name, it will usually bring you to the geographic center.
https://www.mapdevelopers.com/distanc...
2023 miles is a really nice distance away. I think most people could exceed that by simply avoiding their own continent (or neighbor). It's hard to think of it as anything but a setting prompt.
For people who hate anything personal, there is no need to say where you live if you don't want to.
Tracy wrote: "NEW TOPIC SUGGESTION:"A book involving (or a book with a title including?) at least one of the 5 senses, or related words" — E.g., SIGHT: vision, view, look, see, saw; HEARING: sound, hear, liste..."
I’d up vote it if it is a book involving at least one of the senses but if it is a title prompt it would be a down vote. I’d like to see some other type of prompts added before I’d up vote a title prompt.
I may be having a brain fart but what is the best way to search for authors by their location? How would I go about finding authors from Canada for example?
Jillian wrote: "Tracy wrote: "NEW TOPIC SUGGESTION:"A book involving (or a book with a title including?) at least one of the 5 senses, or related words" — E.g., SIGHT: vision, view, look, see, saw; HEARING: soun..."
Well, we have 4 Title Prompts, and 4 Theme Prompts so far. If we worded it as "involving", then I guess it would get sorted into Other Prompts along with "A book involving birds, bees, or bunnies"?
What does the group think of an author who uses punctuation in their name?J.D. Robb
Madeleine L'Engle
Seth Grahame-Smith
RachelG. wrote: "I may be having a brain fart but what is the best way to search for authors by their location? How would I go about finding authors from Canada for example?"I googled "goodreads canadian authors" and ended up on a "Shelf" page for those authors, but I have no idea how to find the "Shelf" page from within goodreads.com. I also tried "canadian authors" on the Genres page. Or if you don't care if they are listed in Goodreads specifically, I actually just started with googling Canadian Authors.
Tracy wrote: "RachelG. wrote: "I may be having a brain fart but what is the best way to search for authors by their location? How would I go about finding authors from Canada for example?"I googled "goodreads ..."
Thanks Tracy!
Jillian wrote: "What does the group think of an author who uses punctuation in their name?J.D. Robb
Madeleine L'Engle
Seth Grahame-Smith"
I think this idea is a good one that I personally haven't seen suggested before.
Jillian wrote: "Here is the Canadian author’s listopia https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/..."
Thank you!
Juliet Brown wrote: "I hated the Warwick Prize prompt (it was a more literary fiction leaning than worked for me) but I would be totally for a 'book in translation' prompt"With many literary awards, I usually like the short lists, long lists and nominees more than the winners!
Personally I'd likely downvote a translated book. We haven't necessarily had it on this specific challenge for years, but it is an extremely common challenge prompt and I feel like I've had it multiple times a year every year. I love the 5 senses idea (although I know I'd be tempted to do it as a multi-week even if it's just a single prompt).
RachelG. wrote: "I may be having a brain fart but what is the best way to search for authors by their location? How would I go about finding authors from Canada for example?"CANADIAN AUTHOR list: (not book list)
https://www.scribendi.com/academy/art...
In goodreads, you can search tags, listopias, Settings and awards, but none of them will give you a full list. I always try tags first, to get a list of books.
TAG LISTS are based on ALL USERS tags. The top of the list is based on how many people tagged the book. These are sometimes older books.
LISTOPIAs are lists created by fewer people (such as our ATY Listopias) but people can vote on the "best" books, which you can't get form the tag lists. Some lists grow and grow, and reflect many different opinions.
Below is the tag list that Jillian and Tracy found. You can substitute any other search term you want to try, after "show/". (use a hyphen between words)
TAG SEARCH FORMAT: (One letter can make a difference)
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Some tags will also have a genre page format (eventually most will have them I think.)
GENRE search format (These aren't necessarily actual genres)
https://www.goodreads.com/genres/cana...
The genre pages will often show you listopias, but they're often far from the best lists on the topic. The search function for listopias is really bad. I kept searching listopias using different terms. The last one it gave me turned out to be the best.*
LISTOPIA LISTS of Canadian books and authors
Top three I found so far:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/7...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
Here are a few more random ideas I've had. Tossing them out to see if there's any interest.- A book with a hat on the cover. (Alternatively, I thought about a beard on the cover.)
- A book with a ferris wheel, carousel or roller coaster on the cover.
- A book about the "woman behind the man" (the spouse/partner of a powerful individual, i.e. the First Lady, Prince Consort, and so on).
- A book related to science.
- A book with a character who has a superhuman ability.
- A book by an author whose first and last names begin with the same letter.
I'm not in anyway attached to the specific wording of any of these. Just having a bit of fun.
Tracy wrote: "Jillian wrote: "Tracy wrote: "NEW TOPIC SUGGESTION:"A book involving (or a book with a title including?) at least one of the 5 senses, or related words" — E.g., SIGHT: vision, view, look, see, sa..."
The hearing topic came up before (possibly linked with music, sounds), but without a suggestion. I like these as topics, but I don't want another title prompt. I'm reading a book this month about deaf culture, which I haven't read about before. It's really interesting. It would work for hearing. This would overlap with disability, so you might want to wait until that gets voted on.
Personally, I wouldn't upvote any title prompts now. But toward the end of the year, I might. I like this a lot more than one that already got in.
@NancyJ - some one earlier in the evening mentioned not wanting a title prompt re: the 5 senses, but indicated that an “involves one of the 5 senses” would be fine with them. How do you (or anyone else) feel about that alternative that I included as a possibility?
Aimee wrote: "Ann wrote: "I would avoid any disability prompt this year. The acceptable language and terminology are changing on a monthly basis and you are bound to upset someone."Excluding the prompt on this..."
Aimee, I absolutely agree! Many well-meaning people are so afraid to say the wrong thing, they avoid engaging with people they perceive as different. (The end result is the same as avoiding someone because you don't like them.) We need to keep talking and keep reading.
*The lack of one clear rule gives us more leeway, not less. If two people with the same condition can't agree on how to phrase it, we can't be expected to know either. We'll do our best.
I agree that the prompt should be broad, and should include hidden disabilities (I'm in that club too), physical, cognitive, mental health conditions, ADHD and other types of neurodiversity, etc.
*I strongly prefer the point of view of "the main character" or "a main character," or "author" especially of a memoir or non-fiction book. I think the breadth of the prompt is important because of the breadth of the topic. It allows each person to customize the prompt to meet their own specific needs or to read a lighter book if they choose.
I've lost track of the previous wording suggestions. But here are two options:
Read a book involving disability or neurodiversity (with a short list of types, including hidden disability to show the range)
I like this one best, with an add-on* based on the lists suggested by Aimee, Tracy and others. The beginning eliminates the author/character conflict.
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability or neurodiversity. (*with the list of types, etc, including hidden disabilities)
*It's hard to construct a parallel sentence with these terms. 'Person first' sounds best with disability (Person with disability) , but 'Identity first' sounds better with nd (Neuro-divergent person).
I like the start of my sentence, but I'm not sure about the rest:
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability or neurodiversity. (*with the list of types, etc, including hidden disabilities)
T. wrote: "Here are a few more random ideas I've had. Tossing them out to see if there's any interest.- A book with a hat on the cover. (Alternatively, I thought about a beard on the cover.)
- A book with a..."
I love a book related to science. The science tag has a HUGE variety of topic (and the list has more than 100,000 books). There is a lot of fiction that touches on science topics (such as animals, environment, climate, biology, health, nature, genetics, etc.) or has a character with a science related career (I love Lab Girl). Plus science fiction, dystopian books, space, artificial intelligence, and non-fiction on many great topics.
There are a lot of books about wives (daughters, mistresses or secretaries) of famous men, and some are very good. I'm tired of them myself, but my irl book club is bound to pick one every year.
A prince consort - Are there any good books about the man behind the woman?
Tracy wrote: "@NancyJ - some one earlier in the evening mentioned not wanting a title prompt re: the 5 senses, but indicated that an “involves one of the 5 senses” would be fine with them. How do you (or anyone ..."I like "involves," and I would avoid "related to."
I would wait for the disability prompt to get through, otherwise it might be viewed as a disability prompt itself. I think this could be really unique concept. It might be hard to find book titles that fit, or it might be easy.
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Around the Year in 52 Books
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My original suggestion tried to cover all these issues, and while longer than our average prompt wording, I think it is still fairly concise:
"A book with one of the main characters having a disability (physical, sensory, learning, mental, medical) OR who is neurodivergent."
above slightly edited from the original for typos and clarity
Does that work?