Around the Year in 52 Books discussion

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message 1151: by Ellie (new)

Ellie (patchworkbunny) | 2995 comments NancyJ wrote: "I really like exploring subgenres too. I would love to see the hopepunk/hope prompt suggested. I don't recall the exact wording. Ellie, was that your suggestion?..."

Not mine, I'm just a big fan of hopepunk. Sometimes it already feels we're living in the pessimistic future of previous sci-fi, so it's nice to envision a better world!


message 1152: by NancyJ (new)

NancyJ (nancyjjj) | 3750 comments Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "I really like exploring subgenres too. I would love to see the hopepunk/hope prompt suggested. I don't recall the exact wording. Ellie, was that your suggestion?..."

Not mine, I'm j..."


Absolutely!


message 1153: by Pam (new)

Pam (bluegrasspam) | 3873 comments Nancy - Here are a few alt history books: Judenstaat by Simone Zelitch, The Yiddish Policeman’s Union by Michael Chabon, and The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick.


message 1154: by Ann (new)

Ann S | 624 comments Nadine in NY wrote: "Ann wrote: "dalex wrote: "Speculative fiction just means science fiction, fantasy, and horror, imo. The things you listed as “under the umbrella” (superhero fiction, dystopian, alternate history) a..."
I don't really know, but ask the librarian. I guess his powers seem above and beyond. But, as I said, a lot is to get readership of certain books up. If someone likes Spec fic and finds a sherlock holmes in it, they may read it.


message 1155: by Ann (new)

Ann S | 624 comments Also new terminology and section for books such as female/ scifi/ fantasy called blend books. More than two cross genres. I saw one the other day that was scifi fantasy western.


message 1156: by Alicia (last edited Jul 22, 2022 11:18AM) (new)

Alicia | 1490 comments Ann wrote: "Also new terminology and section for books such as female/ scifi/ fantasy called blend books. More than two cross genres. I saw one the other day that was scifi fantasy western."

Ooh Charlaine Harris has one that is a fantasy, alt-history, western series, Gunnie Rose. Here is the first book: An Easy Death


message 1157: by Juliet (new)

Juliet Brown | 264 comments NancyJ wrote: "Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "I really like exploring subgenres too. I would love to see the hopepunk/hope prompt suggested. I don't recall the exact wording. Ellie, was that your suggestion?..."

N..."

I really enjoyed The Calculating Stars and American Hippo


message 1158: by Laurel (new)

Laurel Kristick | 874 comments I recently won an interesting speculative fiction in a Goodreads Giveaway - The Peacekeeper - an Ojibwe peace keeper (police officer) in a modern North America that was never colonized by Europeans. I just started it and it is good so far.


message 1159: by Lindsey (new)

Lindsey | 96 comments NancyJ wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Ann wrote: "dalex wrote: "Speculative fiction just means science fiction, fantasy, and horror, imo. The things you listed as “under the umbrella” (superhero fiction, dystopian,..."

The Small Change trilogy by Jo Walton (Farthing, Ha'penny, and Half a Crown) is set in 1949 in an England that overthrew Churchill and negotiated a peace with the Nazis. I read the first one for this year's "alternate history" prompt, and now I'm trying to figure out how to slot in the remaining two. I would love another prompt like this for next year!


message 1160: by Joy D (last edited Jul 22, 2022 01:50PM) (new)

Joy D | 727 comments Tracy wrote: "I will hold off suggesting the speculative fiction genre until after that is settled."

I hope you can suggest it at some point. I am definitely interested and think it does not need any modifiers. (Note: Those who like hopepunk could fit something in this category, since speculative fiction includes both optimistic and pessimistic scenarios).

NancyJ - Another good alternative history is:
The Plot Against America by Philip Roth (what if Lindbergh became President instead of FDR during WWII).
Also:
Underground Airlines by Ben H. Winters (if the US South still had slavery and was a separate country from the North)

I am busy adding all these suggestions for alternate history.


message 1161: by Tracy (new)

Tracy | 3265 comments Joy D wrote: "Tracy wrote: "I will hold off suggesting the speculative fiction genre until after that is settled."

I hope you can suggest it at some point. I am definitely interested and think it does not need ..."


I'm excited by all the discussion about Speculative Fiction - for or against. I'm happy to see all the titles being shared. Even if this prompt doesn't make it, hopefully these titles can be used for other prompts.

@JoyD - I read The Plot Against America by Philip Roth several years ago and remember thinking it was fascinating. If I recall correctly there was some factual information in the book that I wasn't familiar with, so I learned some REAL history as well. Good recommendation.

and @Alicia - you made me think that MAYBE the "sci-fi/fantasy by an female author" didn't make it BECAUSE some people only think of the very strict interpretations of those genres. Maybe if I write the prompt in such a way to highlight that there are MANY subgenres that voters didn't think of originally, then at least part of the intent will be met for the original prompt suggestion. Not sure about adding the female author though. Certainly nothing against reading female authors, but many people stated that actually a great deal of the titles out there in this broad genre category ARE female. So maybe just leave that up to the reader?


message 1162: by Rae (new)

Rae | 81 comments Personally, if I'm trying to diversify my reading, I'd have to read more male authors.

I'd rather see a speculative fiction prompt than a sci-fi/fantasy by a female author prompt. I'd also like the adventure fiction prompt to be resubmitted without the female author qualifier.


message 1163: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 2954 comments I’m not a fan of prompts having two qualifiers so just Fantasy/ Sci-fi and/or Speculative fiction would be upvotes.


message 1164: by Joy D (last edited Jul 22, 2022 04:27PM) (new)

Joy D | 727 comments Tracy wrote: "@JoyD - I read The Plot Against America by Philip Roth several years ago and remember thinking it was fascinating. If I recall correctly there was some factual information in the book that I wasn't familiar with, so I learned some REAL history as well. Good recommendation. ..."

Yes! There is a good amount of real history mixed in with the speculative elements. I found it fascinating too.

If the prompt is SciFi / Fantasy I think it is too broad, but I might consider upvoting it just so I could read speculative fiction as a "sub-genre." I have to say, though, that not all speculative fiction falls under SciFi, as we've discussed above.


message 1165: by Nadine in NY (last edited Jul 23, 2022 06:42AM) (new)

Nadine in NY Jones | 2287 comments NancyJ wrote: "I would love to explore more alternative fiction. If those are real books, can you share the titles? I think I might have the nazi one on my tbr, but I don't recall the title...."

I think these are not the ONLY books that have covered this subject matter, but these are the books I had in mind when I posted:

"what if the Nazis didn't lose?"
The Man in the High Castle (I have not read this one, but it's the book I had in mind when I posted)
The Last Days of New Paris (not my favorite of Mieville's)


or "what if Europeans never colonized the Americas?" (I haven't read either of these ... yet)
The Peacekeeper
Civilizations


or "what if the US Civil War lasted 30 years?" - for this one, I'm not sure if it is exactly 30 years in any of these books, but in each book, the Civil War lasts a long time:
Dread Nation (with zombies! - also one of my favorite books)
Boneshaker (also with zombies! but they are not the main plot point)
Underground Airlines - not the Civil War, but slavery is still legal in four states in present day. This was a great audiobook.


message 1166: by Pamela, Arciform Mod (new)

Pamela | 2590 comments Mod
Joy D wrote: "Tracy wrote: "I will hold off suggesting the speculative fiction genre until after that is settled."

I hope you can suggest it at some point. I am definitely interested and think it does not need ..."


So I just looked at a Hopepunk list (https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...). It's quite long. Anne of Green Gables is on it...

If you love Hopepunk so much, why not just nominate that? It's a pretty long and varied list of book.


message 1167: by Pamela, Arciform Mod (new)

Pamela | 2590 comments Mod
Jillian wrote: "I’m not a fan of prompts having two qualifiers so just Fantasy/ Sci-fi and/or Speculative fiction would be upvotes."

Ditto. There comes a time when clearly the prompt is trying to please too many people and becomes too wide open. If a prompt you don't like makes it through, you either broaden it yourself or you do a wildcard.


message 1168: by Pamela, Arciform Mod (new)

Pamela | 2590 comments Mod
Rae wrote: "Personally, if I'm trying to diversify my reading, I'd have to read more male authors.

I'd rather see a speculative fiction prompt than a sci-fi/fantasy by a female author prompt. I'd also like th..."


Since all sci fi is speculative, then one can vote for speculative and BIO is yourself to read only by a woman (I'll be reading that Peacekeeper book for any prompt in this area- it looks fascinating!)


message 1169: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 2954 comments Pamela wrote: "Jillian wrote: "I’m not a fan of prompts having two qualifiers so just Fantasy/ Sci-fi and/or Speculative fiction would be upvotes."

Ditto. There comes a time when clearly the prompt is trying to ..."


I was actually thinking the opposite. I find some prompts become too narrow and members should place their own restrictions.


message 1170: by Nadine in NY (new)

Nadine in NY Jones | 2287 comments Laurel wrote: "I recently won an interesting speculative fiction in a Goodreads Giveaway - The Peacekeeper - an Ojibwe peace keeper (police officer) in a modern North America that was never coloni..."


I am excited to read this one and even more excited now that I hear it's good!!


message 1171: by Nadine in NY (new)

Nadine in NY Jones | 2287 comments Joy D wrote: "If the prompt is SciFi / Fantasy I think it is too broad, but I might consider upvoting it just so I could read speculative fiction as a "sub-genre." I have to say, though, that not all speculative fiction falls under SciFi, as we've discussed above. ..."



IMO it's the exact reverse. "Speculative fiction" is the BIG umbrealla in includes SFF, magical realism, horror, etc. Sci-fi, fantasy, etc, are - in a way - sub-genres of speculative fiction.


message 1172: by Kahlia (new)

Kahlia | 103 comments Nadine in NY wrote: "IMO it's the exact reverse. "Speculative fiction" is the BIG umbrealla in includes SFF, magical realism, horror, etc. Sci-fi, fantasy, etc, are - in a way - sub-genres of speculative fiction."

I agree, spec fic is far too broad a category for me as it covers so much (I wouldn't vote for it for that reason, though I wouldn't complain if it got in because fantasy/sci fi makes up the majority of what I read).

It sounds like what people actually want is some way of separating out the books that don't feel like epic fantasy full of magic and wild creatures, but are more about exploring worlds that still look very similar to our own but with a speculative element (e.g. The Handmaid's Tale) It might take some creative wordsmithing to get a prompt that reflects such a vibe.


message 1173: by Tracy (new)

Tracy | 3265 comments I like that idea Kahlia. I’ll into the wording possibility.


message 1174: by Alicia (new)

Alicia | 1490 comments Kahlia, would that just be alternative-history novels (which I love)?


message 1175: by Kahlia (new)

Kahlia | 103 comments Alicia wrote: "Kahlia, would that just be alternative-history novels (which I love)?"

I love them too and would happily vote for such a prompt, but I worry it wouldn't get in since we had the same prompt this year.


message 1176: by Tracy (new)

Tracy | 3265 comments I should think, if we were cutting out sci-fi/fantasy (it may get resubmitted later from an earlier suggestion), that it would include alt history, dystopian fiction, apocalyptic fiction, post apocalyptic fiction, utopian fiction at least. There may be others that are not part of the typical sci-fi/fantasy books. Time travel, time warp, meta verse? I’ll have to look at some resources to figure that out.


message 1177: by Ellie (new)

Ellie (patchworkbunny) | 2995 comments Tracy wrote: "I should think, if we were cutting out sci-fi/fantasy (it may get resubmitted later from an earlier suggestion), that it would include alt history, dystopian fiction, apocalyptic fiction, post apoc..."

Those things are science fiction.


message 1178: by Ellie (new)

Ellie (patchworkbunny) | 2995 comments If you need to exclude certain types of book from a speculative fiction prompt you could do it by making it speculative fiction set on Earth. That would exclude secondary world fantasy and space based sci-fi, which I get the feeling is what a lot of people who don't read SFF assume it is.


message 1179: by dalex (new)

dalex (912dalex) | 2636 comments And this very lengthy discussion makes it obvious that people are confused about speculative fiction, which might make it a very difficult prompt to get enough consensus to have it voted into the challenge.

If the prompt is "speculative fiction" people will ask, "What does that include?"
If the prompt is "sci-fi, fantasy, horror" people will say, "I hate sci-fi (thinking it means spaceships) or I hate fantasy (thinking it means epic quests and elves) or I hate horror (thinking it's bloody gore and monsters). None of these assumptions about sci-fi, fantasy, and horror are correct.

The reality is whether the prompt is worded "speculative fiction" or "sci-fi, fantasy, horror" it is exactly the same thing and it includes every possible subgenre, including the not-so-obviously sci-fi & fantasy things like alternate history and magical realism. It even includes those books that are shelved as general fiction even though it contains a speculative element because that's a subgenre called slipstream - a kind of fantastic or non-realistic fiction that crosses conventional genre boundaries between science fiction, fantasy, and literary fiction.

I think maybe what the person who originally posed the idea of this prompt meant was, in fact, a book that fits the slipstream subgenre.


message 1180: by Nadine in NY (last edited Jul 24, 2022 04:39AM) (new)

Nadine in NY Jones | 2287 comments dalex wrote: "I think maybe what the person who originally posed the idea of this prompt meant was, in fact, a book that fits the slipstream subgenre...."


"Slipstream" is very confusing and I still don't have my arms around exactly what the subgenre includes. If you're worried that "speculative fiction" won't fly because it confuses people, "slipstream" would possibly do even worse in the confusion department.

Based on your description, I thought maybe books like Station Eleven, Gold Fame Citrus, Annihilation, The Trees. Or maybe not, because Station Eleven & Gold Fame Citrus take place in the future. I googled and found examples like Perdido Street Station, which - wow, that is so far from being a realistic-set-on-earth book. (This was from a list of "19 Best Slipsteam Novels" on best-sci-fi-books
https://best-sci-fi-books.com/19-best...

So I turned to Book Riot, and they basically say "it's weird" (https://bookriot.com/what-is-slipstream/) which doesn't help. Wikipedia is also not helpful, they give no examples, but just say "Slipstream is a kind of fantastic or non-realistic fiction that crosses conventional genre boundaries between science fiction, fantasy, and literary fiction.."


Listopia gave me this list:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/7...
which unfortunately has a few books I've read, and NO books I want to read.
and this
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/9...

Based on that list, I guess any book from Louise Erdrich with ghosts would count? And probably almost all the horror written by Stephen Graham Jones since his books tend to stay very grounded in reality. Maybe also books from Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Iain Banks, Kazuo Ishiguro, and Haruki Murakami?

Goodreads has this list of what people are shelving:
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
(Perdido Street Station shows up again.)


message 1181: by Thomas (new)

Thomas Plus if it says “ fantasy, sci fi and horror” some people will say it’s too broad and therefore not a challenge


message 1182: by Shannon SA (new)

Shannon SA (shannonsa) | 713 comments What if the suggestion was "a book with a Goodreads main Page Genre of Speculative Fiction"? For example, Perdido Street Station has it as a MPG but Station Eleven does not.

BTW I wouldn't vote for this suggestion :)


message 1183: by dalex (new)

dalex (912dalex) | 2636 comments Goodreads resources are pretty much useless. Station Eleven is absolutely speculative fiction.


message 1184: by Alicia (new)

Alicia | 1490 comments I think the issue is that did speculative fiction doesn’t have a set in stone definition. It’s constantly changing, expanding or narrowing depending on the person. I wouldn’t say they are the exact same thing. I agree all speculative fiction falls under science fiction or fantasy, but I don’t think all science fiction and fantasy are speculative fiction. But I’ve seen articles that agree with dalex and articles that agree with me. I think a “speculative fiction” prompt would be up to each individual and how they interpret it.

I think of speculative as something that could possibly happen in our world, or is our world with some magical/unique changes (Harry Potter). That does cover a lot of science fiction and fantasy, but completely made up worlds wouldn’t count for me, at least. For example, I wouldn’t consider Lord of the Rings to be speculative fiction.

All that said, since I am swayed by discussions, I don’t know if I’d vote for this anymore. It seems it may be too complicated and debatable if it got in


message 1185: by Thomas (new)

Thomas But given that we say “ if you say it fits it fits” isn’t better to have categories without set in stone definitions?


message 1186: by Tracy (new)

Tracy | 3265 comments What if I left out a genre name altogether and just suggested something like “a book set in our world but with some tweak to our known reality”?


message 1187: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 2954 comments Basically, it seems like magical realism is what is want which is my least favorite sub genre. So, if the prompt gets narrowed down to that I’m out.


message 1188: by Jill (new)

Jill (dogbotsmum) | 1356 comments As dalex says in message 1179. I am that person she describes. I don't read sci fi and immediately think other planets and space travel. Horror to me is hauntings and situations where people are threatened, and fantasy can be anything from a children's book to elves and trolls.
If I see speculative fiction, I think of a book describing what could happen as opposed to alternative history, which could have been possible
Therefore sci fi is and automatic down vote. Speculative fiction would be an up vote


message 1189: by Pam (new)

Pam (bluegrasspam) | 3873 comments I would vote for the broad category of speculative fiction. For some readers, that in itself is a challenging prompt. If it’s too broad for others, put your own limitation on your selection.
On a different subject, I don’t like limitations on the author’s gender. I understand the rationale but there are just as many male authors as female that I haven’t read and look forward to reading all of them. I’d rather choose my books based on another criteria.
I’m looking forward to todays announcement! Sometimes I have a good feel for which way the vote will go but not this week.


message 1190: by Kelly Sj (new)

Kelly Sj | 484 comments "Speculative Fiction" was on the list in 2018, so I think it would have support as is, without speculating about what it means, lol. For myself, I think speculative fiction is more specific than fantasy, sci-fi, or horror, but others may interpret it as a more general umbrella term. I've read a lot of books of this type for which a clear genre is questionable, and I feel weird about shelving them as fantasy/scifi.


message 1191: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 2954 comments Poll 4’s results have been posted
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 1192: by Nancy (new)

Nancy (fancynancyt) | 1842 comments I personally think of speculative fiction as more specific too. It definitely does not equal sci-fi, fantasy, and horror, IMO.


message 1193: by Pam (new)

Pam (bluegrasspam) | 3873 comments According to Wiki, speculative fiction includes but is not limited to all of the categories listed in this discussion.


message 1194: by Joy D (last edited Jul 24, 2022 03:44PM) (new)

Joy D | 727 comments I agree part of the problem with speculative fiction is agreeing on a definition. I have always seen it as something different than SciFi/Fantasy/Horror, but others obviously think it is the same thing or an even bigger umbrella category.

It would be interesting to see if just "a book of speculative fiction" would get voted in. It might be difficult due to the varying definitions (or possibly lack of awareness of what it is - similar to my lack of understanding of hopepunk, which I had never heard of before).


message 1195: by Beth (new)

Beth | 450 comments I haven't read the full discussion but just wanted to add that we have had 'speculative fiction' as a prompt in a previous year so it isn't something that no one would vote for.

It isn't my thing personally so I wouldn't vote for any iteration. I would prefer speculative over a specific reference to a genre like sci-fi or fantasy though if I really had to choose.


message 1196: by Laurel (new)

Laurel Kristick | 874 comments I think some authors use the term speculative fiction for their work because they don't want to be lumped in with fantasy or science fiction genres, which has always seemed kind of snobbish to me.


message 1197: by Joy D (last edited Jul 24, 2022 04:07PM) (new)

Joy D | 727 comments I think some "literary" authors want their work to be considered separately from "genre" SciFi. As a reader, it helps me as well because I'm interested in books of ideas and characters rather than plot.

I wonder if the wording would work better if it were something like "read a book you consider utopian or dystopian"? This would cover "hopepunk" or the narrower definition of "speculative."

I am new to the group this year, and have read through prior-year lists of prompts, but admit to not remembering them all.

ETA - I just took another look and "a book of speculative fiction" was on the 2019 list.


message 1198: by Robin P, Orbicular Mod (last edited Jul 24, 2022 04:13PM) (new)

Robin P | 4052 comments Mod
Shannon wrote: "What if the suggestion was "a book with a Goodreads main Page Genre of Speculative Fiction"? For example, Perdido Street Station has it as a MPG but Station Eleven does not.

BTW I wouldn't vote fo..."


I needed that exit thing for a challenge in another group. I have hundreds of books on my Want to Read and only 1 or 2 had Speculative Fiction as a Main Page Genre. Those are totally based on what readers call the book and few readers choose that category name for a specific book. I would definitely be against that.

Then there are always the people who don't read this thread and will just look at the category and say "huh?" (Maybe that's why we tend to get some wishy-washy prompts. The more creative ones have more explanation and some people don't read up on them to understand their options. For me, I love these discussions and miss them when they are over for the year!)


message 1199: by Thomas (new)

Thomas Robin P wrote: "Shannon wrote: "What if the suggestion was "a book with a Goodreads main Page Genre of Speculative Fiction"? For example, Perdido Street Station has it as a MPG but Station Eleven does not.

BTW I ..."


Hi Robin will the next suggestion open on the day roginally scheduled or do you guys need a break ( Emily mentioned something about travelling)?


message 1200: by Robin P, Orbicular Mod (new)

Robin P | 4052 comments Mod
I will do the next suggestions tomorrow. I am free all day, just checking with other Mods if there is a preference for time of day.


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