Red Queen
discussion
Maven or Cal???
McKenzie wrote: "I honestly don't like Cal as a character. Ever since the first book he's been pretty "meh" in my eyes. Sorry, not sorry. Mare isn't a bad MC. She has her (sometimes annoying) flaws while still be..."
same :D
KenKen wrote: "McKenzie wrote: "I honestly don't like Cal as a character. Ever since the first book he's been pretty "meh" in my eyes. Sorry, not sorry. Mare isn't a bad MC. She has her (sometimes annoying) fla..."
^w^ yay! a fellow Maven fan!
McKenzie wrote: "KenKen wrote: "McKenzie wrote: "I honestly don't like Cal as a character. Ever since the first book he's been pretty "meh" in my eyes. Sorry, not sorry. Mare isn't a bad MC. She has her (sometime..."
ayyyyy 👏👏👏👏👏
Cal. No competition. I don't even understand why Maven has so many fans. But I have only just started in part two so maybe something will happen later on to sway me. Who knows.
Maven. 100% For a few different reasons:As much as I want to love Cal for being the handsome, heroic type, I don't. Not as much as everyone else seems to.
DISCLAIMER: I like Cal, I think he's alright. I love the series as a whole. I think he is quite boring, though. His character isn't as interesting as he could be, what with his surroundings and circumstances.
I think his character development thus far has been minimal, and minute.
Maven has so much personality, aside from the fact that he is a sadistic creep. I genuinely believe there is more to be uncovered with his character, and that he is capable of love.
This also might be an EXTREMELY unpopular opinion, but I don't think Mare loves Cal. Well, to an extent, she does. But not in a romantic sense. I believe they have what I call 'Panic Love,' where they're in a super horrible situation and they're clinging onto each other so they don't fall apart under the severe stress of it all.
I don't think they have much in common besides being plunged into a life that they did not ask for.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
personally i want mare to end up with cal -btw i did NOT read the third book yet- but if i'll just face with it, i know that i am deeply aware of the fact that mare is always gonna go with maven. it is like weird and annoying thing that authors do often they like to be dissapointing you calling it surprising people, well authors people do not like it, it is not cool. also that stupid girls ending up with total jerks is not cool either.
First of all, I am gonna immediately assume that this question begs for an answer to which character is better — not a shipping competition.For me, I choose Maven. His character is alluring and makes you question what would have happened if he listened to himself and not his mother. You can clearly read it through moments that he’s hesitating, even for the littlest bit. I, however, still hope for the best of him to become a better person but no, I cannot say I can hold onto that hope anymore. He’s far deep consumed by darkness to think the chance is possible. Victoria herself has answered on Tumblr that she plans no such redemption of Maven. She wants us to accept that he’s truly a monster.
But no one is born a monster. They go through shit to become one, given the people this person is surrounded with. Elara is one of them. She’s truly the real monster in this and she had infested Maven because why question her, after all? She’s HIS mother. “Mother knows best” probably sank through his mind every time Elara makes him think freely for himself. She twists ideas in his mind that could have been changed if given more time — sure, he feels jealous because Cal hogs almost everything but if he wasn’t pulled back by her whispers, wasn’t given doubt, didn’t make him paint another picture of Cal; he would have been close to him.
That is just merely but my opinion and how I see the explaination of his monstrous ways. I couldn’t quite hold onto the total picture of him being all evil. Sure, he did kill but what caused it all that. We all knew he betrayed her. We all knew he hated Cal. We all knew he favored his mother more. He was blinded and he will be the character that will never get back in the light.
Again, he’s too far in the dark for a redemption. And as a enthusiast — for what he could have been, the hesitations he showed, the boy who fooled us all, who hoped would change — will accept the fact that Maven will never be good. It saddens me of course but it’s all for the development of the story. Character death could have been preferable to me, but this is worst than that. I respect how Victoria writes this series and who she chooses to go and become as so.
Also, I never took liking for Cal because he seems to be this typical Prince character. Yes, I find Maven more interesting because he developed into what the dark souled misguided person that he is.For shipping, I hate Mareven so much. I used to like it BEFORE his betrayal. And felt devasted when he did. And I don’t support their relationship. It’s toxic and wrong in every way. This ship deserves to be parted because both characters don’t do help to each other. Maybe they would have IF Maven didn’t listen to his wretched of a mother, IF Maven didn’t cloud his mind so much of his jealousy of Cal, IF he accepted that maybe in this world you have to make sacrifices and let someone go. She sure did remind him so much of Thomas but Thomas is not her, and she’s not Thomas. She’s Mare. She’s hunted by his kind. If he wanted her close, he should have chose to let her go. But I guess he was afraid to let her go given his brother has tugged at her heart, given she could die just like Thomas did, given he would forget him. And he did what was wrong.
For Mare, he’s not good for her. She’s also holding onto this picture of him. She keeps this ghost of him on her mind hoping the Maven she knew would be real and no matter how much she wants to hate him, she can’t because she’s still hopeless when she sees him. Even through so much torture, she still holds on. That’s not good.
In conclusion, Mareven destroys itself.
For Marecal, ummm honestly I found them typical. As expected when they started talking to each other. Sure, they’re good for each other but only in times when they need reassurance. I haven’t finished reading King’s Cage but I can say for now that they’re both left alone to struggle on fighting this war. Cal’s attached much of his throne and his people than of Mare. That’s correct of him. He musn’t risk a whole nation for a girl. And she shouldn’t lessen herself for a boy, no matter his status. She wants to do something, she should. She shouldn’t let someone pull her back. We can see in Glass Sword that their fights are because of Mare choosing to wage war within blood - mostly Silver to Silver. Of course Cal hates this. They can’t come in turns in the situation they’re in and the people they are. He’s a Prince, he should do what is expected of him next ruling after Maven. She’s a monument to the Reds and the newbloods. She’s expected to fight for them. They cannot stand firm together given the visible division and who they are.
So yeah, bye. I’m gonna continue reading King’s Cage now. Please don’t call me names if you disagree on what I say. This is just a discussion. These are what I think. Ok, wink wonk. Adios.
I'm probably the only one but I don't think either should end up with her. Kilorn is my choice only because I cant stand Cal or Maven. It also helps that both Kilorn and Mare chose save each other without having to think about it, even if it isn't a simple task.
Honestly I like Cal. He's just sweet but I feel like the romance is forced.
I think she should end up with cal, i feel like maven betrayed her and just used her. I feel like if maven hadn't done what he did they would be together
In my opinion, all three are better off on their own in the end. While it's nice to have some romance in the story, it belongs nowhere near Mare, Maven, or Cal.
I feel like internally I am wanting Maven and Mare to be a thing but I know that it won't happen in the last book. But at the same time I hate Tiberius' guts (my friends and I refuse to call him Cal) because of what he did. But I feel like if he fixes it I could let it be
Lily wrote: "CAL obviously"But what about Tiberius hurting Mare??
#TEAMCAL FOREVER! Mare and Cal are the perfect symbol of true love. Care to disagree? Reply and try me! XD (only if you have read Glass Sword and King's Cage as well.)
Kat wrote: "Its super hard to come up with a ship name for Maven and Mare! I mean its... Marven? Mavare? there's not many options haha"Well the obvious solution is CALARE! No Maven at all!
Lara wrote: "I def liked Cal in the beginning. He caught my attention right away. But as the book went on, I found him to be slightly annoying (which was still ok) and found Maven to be more sweet. Now that the..."Thank you! Calare 4ever! Please do not go to the dark side!
Some people here obviously have not read Glass Sword and King's Cage. Read those and you will ship Mare and Cal. I mean, FOR GOODNESS SAKE THEIR SHIP NAME IS CARE!!!
Abby wrote: "Some people here obviously have not read Glass Sword and King's Cage. Read those and you will ship Mare and Cal. I mean, FOR GOODNESS SAKE THEIR SHIP NAME IS CARE!!!"I have read all the red queen books and honestly Tiberius to me is an ok character. He has some good character development but not as good as Maven. I dislike Maven for what he has done but his character development is the best out of any of the characters so I love him for this. Tiberius is a good man but he has mistakes that are honestly so horrible I can't love him like I used to.
Kalena wrote: "Abby wrote: "Some people here obviously have not read Glass Sword and King's Cage. Read those and you will ship Mare and Cal. I mean, FOR GOODNESS SAKE THEIR SHIP NAME IS CARE!!!"I have read all ..."
You are right, but Mare has made just as many mistakes as Cal, so really, they are both even. Maven COULD have been a good guy, but his mother, Elara, corrupted him beyond fixing. I mean, Maven sentenced Mare to execution, tried to kill her, branded her with an M, locked her in a cell to rot and get weak without her powers, and poked at her weak spots when he could. He also killed several innocent people just to get Mare back. In my opinion, that is a sick, monstrous act of evil. Cal has saved Mare multiple times, and he has also tried so hard to do what is right to stay with Mare. Cal has been through a lot, like his brother hating him, his birth mom dying, his step-mom being evil, and then he has to live with the burden of slicing his father's head off. Yet, Cal is still a sane person, unlike Maven. You never know though, maybe they will find someone to fix Maven....TeamCal! XD
I agree, Maven is hot and all but Cal is just way better.
You guys Maven may be all blue eyed and mysterious but he kills babies! Lets not forget that
Abby wrote: "Kalena wrote: "Abby wrote: "Some people here obviously have not read Glass Sword and King's Cage. Read those and you will ship Mare and Cal. I mean, FOR GOODNESS SAKE THEIR SHIP NAME IS CARE!!!"I..."
I'm not saying that Maven is a better person than Tiberius, and you make some really good points. But I still feel like Maven isn't completely beyond repair. Not too many people play on the fact of not everyone is good or evil, but Maven is both. He is a poor kid who just wanted to learn about his powers, but his mother hurt him. And it wasn't his fault at all he's still just a broken kid with a clouded mind. Tiberius tries to care about Mare, but I don't think that at the moment he can, although neither can Maven. I'm just excited to see what the next book brings.
Kalena wrote: "Abby wrote: "Kalena wrote: "Abby wrote: "Some people here obviously have not read Glass Sword and King's Cage. Read those and you will ship Mare and Cal. I mean, FOR GOODNESS SAKE THEIR SHIP NAME I..."Same. What I think will happen in War Storm...Cal will be a really good king, and show Mare what he means to do with his kingdom, but at the same time they will miss each other, realize how much they need one another, and they will be depressed. Eventually, Cal and Mare will come face to face, and Cal will apologize to Mare, but since Mare is incredibly stubborn, she will wave him away. In the end, Cal will save Mare from Maven killing her or something, and will yet again apologize. Mare will realize how great Cal really is and how horribly she has treated him, and they will share a romantic kiss. Of course, how wonderful this all is, Mrs. Aveyard will come up with someone close to Mare dying. I have a feeling it will be Kilorn, Farley, or even one of her family members. Hopefully, the ending will leave everyone happy. (unfortunately unlikely ;( Anyway, Team Cal!
Spoilers Ahead: There is no contest. It's neither. Maven is a total douchebag and not to mention crazy. Also while I usually would have leaned toward Cal, in the most recent book at the end he didn't fight for her. He gave in to his family's crazy plan to have him marry Evangeline. They may only be half brothers but they are both unworthy of Mare.
Sera wrote: "Spoilers Ahead: There is no contest. It's neither. Maven is a total douchebag and not to mention crazy. Also while I usually would have leaned toward Cal, in the most recent book at the end he didn..."Well, I mean think about all of the mistakes Mare has made and even has admitted to herself. She has made just as many as Cal. I AM a Calare fan, but that isn't the only reason I think they will end up together. It just makes sense. There is no way Mare will end up single, unless Victoria wants it to be a boring ending. She won't end up with Maven, for the Maven she really loved is long gone. She said herself that she doesn't love Kilorn the way he loves her, so he isn't an option. So that leaves Cal. Unless some handsome young man appears out of no where in War Storm to save Mare, Calare will be the ending result. (Lol, I hope XD)
Abby wrote: "Sera wrote: "Spoilers Ahead: There is no contest. It's neither. Maven is a total douchebag and not to mention crazy. Also while I usually would have leaned toward Cal, in the most recent book at th..."I don't think Mare should end up with anyone, tbh. In my opinion, she's a better MC without all the romance involved. Even though I'm a huge Maven fan, (I don't ship them together. That ended after his betrayal in Red Queen. I still love him though) Team Mare should win in the end.
Oh well. We will just have to wait and see.
McKenzie wrote: "Abby wrote: "Sera wrote: "Spoilers Ahead: There is no contest. It's neither. Maven is a total douchebag and not to mention crazy. Also while I usually would have leaned toward Cal, in the most rece..."I totally agree with you. I used to be team Maven all the way but that ended after his betrayal.
McKenzie wrote: "In my opinion, all three are better off on their own in the end. While it's nice to have some romance in the story, it belongs nowhere near Mare, Maven, or Cal."Oh dang... Now that I think about it, you're right. Oh geez, my whole perspective on the series has been flipped. XD
I agree, I also wouldnt mind if Mare died in the fourth book.
Katherine wrote: "I agree, I also wouldnt mind if Mare died in the fourth book."I have no problem with this. Gotta go out with a bang, right?
OMG! It would be absolutely horrific if Mare died in the end! After all she has been through and worked for....it would be cruel of Victoria to cause the death of the lightning girl! (Not to speak of CALARE not existing if she died!)
No at this point Im very much over Mare, she can be useful and die for the revolution and have everybody else live happily ever after
Lol. If she died Cal wouldn't be happy. Neither would Kilorn, her mother, father, sister, and brothers. Let's just say that if she died, lots of people would NOT live happily ever after.
Abby wrote: "Lol. If she died Cal wouldn't be happy. Neither would Kilorn, her mother, father, sister, and brothers. Let's just say that if she died, lots of people would NOT live happily ever after."I wouldn't mind her dying in the fourth book although it would be kinda (SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSS) Allegiant wouldn't it? and also still like it's a good way to go.
fumi wrote: "Also, I never took liking for Cal because he seems to be this typical Prince character. Yes, I find Maven more interesting because he developed into what the dark souled misguided person that he is..."I agree with everything you just said in your posts, and you made some very valid points. See I still love Maven's character and his development, but he is to far gone to love him for how he is. And like you said, Cal is too classic prince for me to like him any more than I do now. Which is very low.
Alyssa wrote: "Maven. 100% For a few different reasons:As much as I want to love Cal for being the handsome, heroic type, I don't. Not as much as everyone else seems to.
DISCLAIMER: I like Cal, I think he's a..."
This is a very interesting idea about the "panic love" never thought of it that way but yes I agree with you.
I have to go for Cal. Maven is insane. He has gone crazy and there is no way Mare could love him.
Kalena wrote: "fumi wrote: "Also, I never took liking for Cal because he seems to be this typical Prince character. Yes, I find Maven more interesting because he developed into what the dark souled misguided pers..."YES! You said Cal instead of Tiberius!!! XDXD Team Cal!
I prefer Maven because I feel sorry for him. His mum completely changed him and I don’t think he would be like he is, if she hadn’t of tampered with him.
Harriet wrote: "I prefer Maven because I feel sorry for him. His mum completely changed him and I don’t think he would be like he is, if she hadn’t of tampered with him."I agree with you. I think if Maven's mom hadn't royally messed him up, he wouldn't be so cruel and damaged.
I'm hoping that something will change for the better in him in War Storm. No, whatever that change is won't make up for all the horrible things he's done but it's still something. And that's better than nothing at all.
I'm a Maven fan. He (and Evangeline) is my favorite character. My precious (and ruined) child. I have hope for him.
It is true, Maven would be a much better person if his mom hadn't tampered with him, but that simply just isn't how it is. Maven is a horrible monster, and Cal and Mare are perfect for each other. xD Team Cal!
Haha omg maybe I'm a messed up kid, or is it just me who thinks that everything Maven has done is cruel yes, but it make him so fucking sexy, like I what more chapters with him pressing her against the wall wispering in her ear, I mean yes please!Tiberius is just so boring, and when he and Mare had sex in the mud I was like euw.
So team Maven all the way!!
Frida wrote: "Haha omg maybe I'm a messed up kid, or is it just me who thinks that everything Maven has done is cruel yes, but it make him so fucking sexy, like I what more chapters with him pressing her against..."XD Omg I'm freaking living for this post!
Cal, (excuse me, Tiberius) is a very classically basic (and highly boring) princely-type, something I grew up with and used to love when I was younger (I blame Disney) but now I've grown out of it, thankfully. Characters like Tiberius are just not for me anymore.
Characters like Maven are what I live for now. I've crossed over to the dark side. And I'm happy here. Because, honestly, villains and anti-heroes are where it's at for me.
Forever Team Maven. Fight me on it.
I think i'd say Cal..... In my perspective, but you never know what can happen in 15 pages. Or even 444. But Cal is Cal and Maven is.......well Maven. I hate Maven now I used to think he was actually a nice dude and character. That's even a lot for me to say.
McKenzie wrote: "Frida wrote: "Haha omg maybe I'm a messed up kid, or is it just me who thinks that everything Maven has done is cruel yes, but it make him so fucking sexy, like I what more chapters with him pressi..."OMG! Yea, everyone loves a sexy dude, but not evil! Maven. Is. Evil. For Heaven's sake, he tried to KILL Mare! He branded an M on her collarbone, he betrayed her-even though he wasn't even ever truly on her side- and he locked her in a cell to rot and be forgotten. Yes, maybe Cal is a little typical, but at least he isn't evil! And in Disney, the princes never betray the girl, unlike Cal. He has betrayed Mare a couple of times and she has done the same to him. It is quite enthralling and interesting if you ask me. (Also, in Disney, people don't have sexual reproduction) Cal isn't as boring and classic as you make him out to be; he is amazing and the perfect match for Mare. Maven is the antagonist people! If you would like me to go on a rant on why Cal is way better than Maven and why Maven is a monster, please just say so, for I have already successfully done so on so many more websites. TEAMCAL! XD
Abby wrote: "McKenzie wrote: "Frida wrote: "Haha omg maybe I'm a messed up kid, or is it just me who thinks that everything Maven has done is cruel yes, but it make him so fucking sexy, like I what more chapter..."I just don't like Tiberius. He's so meh, in my opinion. So basic.
I love Maven because he's the villain. I love him because he's so complicated and evil and broken. Maven's cruel and problematic and twisted but just because he's monster doesn't mean he isn't hurting and suffering in his own way.
While he's an awesome villain, I feel bad for Maven. I wish things could have happened differently for him. Like I said, I'm hoping something in him changes for the better. Even if it's a small change. I know it won't make up for anything he's done but still. It'll be a step in the right direction. I don't believe the real Maven is too far gone. I still have hope for him.
I don't care about Tiberius or Mare or any of the stupid romance between these two in this series. If they want to "love" each other and live happily ever after then so be it. I'm just not here for it.
In my own way, I can kind of understand and relate to Maven. Weird, I know. But it's true. And it's kind of hard to explain why. It's just how I feel and nothing will change that.
I'm nervous about War Storm because I'm honestly scared for Maven. Ideally, I'd want him to be alive and okay and everything. But if he has to die then..so be it. I mean, it'll be fucking heartbreaking for me but at least he won't have to suffer anymore. And he can finally be happy and free from his demons in the afterlife.
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Mare isn't a bad MC. She has her (sometimes annoying) flaws while still being pretty badass.
However...
I'm Team Maven. Ever since the beginning, he has been my precious baby. And I love him so much. I don't even care if he doesn't end up with Mare. I just want him to be alive and okay by the end of War Storm.
I swear if he dies I will never be the same.