Of Mice and Men Readalong #OfMiceAndMenReadalong discussion
Readalong Discussion (no spoilers/spoilers keeping pace with readalong)
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In just a couple sentences, the scene is set.
"A few miles south of Soledad, the Salinas River drops in close to the hillside bank and runs deep and green. The water is warm too, for it has slipped twinkling over the yellow sands in the sunlight before reaching the narrow pool."
"A few miles south of Soledad, the Salinas River drops in close to the hillside bank and runs deep and green. The water is warm too, for it has slipped twinkling over the yellow sands in the sunlight before reaching the narrow pool."
Thank you for "setting the scene" Karen. Can't wait to reread this book again and see what it serves up this time round.
Oops. I just realized I'm a day ahead of myself and this starts tomorrow.
lol
lol
Mod
The author starts the book with several paragraphs of description instead of immediately starting with the two characters. Why do you think the author decided to start the book this way? How does this help set the tone for the chapter?
What did you make of the two characters? What do you think that the rabbits symbolize?
I think he wanted to set the scene as an idyllic place with nature all around and very few people. Also, maybe it’s how Lennie remembered the place.
The description made it sound, as Matthew put it, idyllic. A good place to be and a good place to start, but a bit like the quiet before the storm as well. Especially when the characters were introduced, and where they've been and why they left and everything...it's clear it's not been easy and it's not gonna be easy. But being in that spot for starters, that's as easy as it can get for them.And the rabbits and their own ranch they imagine is that something that keeps them going, while somehow they probably know (at least George) that it's far out of reach.
Somehow I'm looking forward to the next chapters, but I'm already anxious about the way this is going and it felt like a lot of foreboding...maybe I still peek ahead to chapter two. :)
This novella was published two years before the television was introduced at the 1939 World's Fair. Back then, though radio was around, the common folk could still concentrate on pretty, descriptive language.
Maybe those of us who are rereading shouldn't comment here...this is my second time reading it after 5 years and this time the scenic setting does seem foreboding as one of you put it. The story is not pretty or idyllic at all...and oh my heart, Lennie :(((
Happy start to the read-along to everyone! Really looking forward to this one since I have loved Steinbeck's writing in the past, East of Eden is one of my favorite books of all time, but this is my first time reading Of Mice and Men. I am sure I will have some guesses/theories on things that will have many of you veteran readers of this one laughing a bit :)
As far as the scene descriptions, I do think it sets the tone for the chapter. I am thinking it maybe foreshadows some things to come, or events that maybe happened in the past too? Again, here come my theories that might be way off. In the first part of the chapter, Steinbeck described the various tracks from animals on the flats, also a path that goes through the trees and comes upon "an ash pile made by many fires" and the limb that is "worn smooth by men who have sat on it." Maybe signifying other people that came before that share the same journey that Lennie and George are heading on? There also seems to be a lot of descriptions that focus on the water as well, with Lenny making the waves in it with his fingers and then also the surfacing carp leaving widening rings on the water as well, also a moment when George is staring into it in a morose way. Maybe a symbol of a ripple effect?
As far as what the rabbits might symbolize, I agree with Phoebe that it is maybe something for them to keep as a goal to keep working towards. Maybe also to keep Lennie focused on something that he will be able to care for too, that has positive memories attached to it since Lennie described some furry ones that he saw in a fair. It is maybe a vision they have that hasn't been tarnished by the trouble they keep mentioning, the trouble that happened when they may have meant well with their original intentions?
Looking forward to the next section and hearing more thoughts from everyone, sorry for a bit of a rambling response here!
As far as the scene descriptions, I do think it sets the tone for the chapter. I am thinking it maybe foreshadows some things to come, or events that maybe happened in the past too? Again, here come my theories that might be way off. In the first part of the chapter, Steinbeck described the various tracks from animals on the flats, also a path that goes through the trees and comes upon "an ash pile made by many fires" and the limb that is "worn smooth by men who have sat on it." Maybe signifying other people that came before that share the same journey that Lennie and George are heading on? There also seems to be a lot of descriptions that focus on the water as well, with Lenny making the waves in it with his fingers and then also the surfacing carp leaving widening rings on the water as well, also a moment when George is staring into it in a morose way. Maybe a symbol of a ripple effect?
As far as what the rabbits might symbolize, I agree with Phoebe that it is maybe something for them to keep as a goal to keep working towards. Maybe also to keep Lennie focused on something that he will be able to care for too, that has positive memories attached to it since Lennie described some furry ones that he saw in a fair. It is maybe a vision they have that hasn't been tarnished by the trouble they keep mentioning, the trouble that happened when they may have meant well with their original intentions?
Looking forward to the next section and hearing more thoughts from everyone, sorry for a bit of a rambling response here!
My version of the book is the Library of America version has Steinbecks chronology in the back of his life and writings. Interestingly, he started this book as a children's story which corresponding with many high school classes reading the book makes me ponder what was his original intent. Even though i've never read this book before, the story exists in the American zeitgeist so much that I know several things on the plot despite never reading it (Looney Tunes had a cartoon about the George/Lennie relationship which is emblazoned on my mind lol). Thus, knowing parts of the plot positioned me to see the impending danger of their predicament in the opening pages. The juxtaposition of the description of beautiful nature with the usage by individuals down on their luck combined with Lennie's inability to handle living creatures definitely provides an "impending doom" type atmosphere. Combined with the drinking of the stagnate water and it's not the beautiful bucolic description that Steinbeck presents on the surface.
Mod
What an interesting chapter! There is an avalanche of characters, and I am not certain that I have them all straight.
Does anyone else think there might be more to the story of the guy who quit before Lennie and George arrived?
I enjoyed the no-win situation with Curley and fighting- that if he challenges a big man to a fight and wins, he wins. If he loses, then the big man should have picked on someone his own size.
Curley is also reserving his left hand for his wife. Left in Latin is usually associated with sinister. Is this foreshadowing of things to come?
The description of Slim describes an extraordinary character. It reminds me of Nick describing Jay Gatsby.
The characters so far have been fascinating. Most authors tend to write good characters and bad characters. In this novel, the characters seem to be not all good and not all bad.
Does anyone else think it is weird that Lennie and George already want to move on?
What do you think of the description of the swamper dressed in a black vest, black coat, and spurs?
Hi Lisa. I also remarked how well sketched all the characters are. In fact not only well sketched but each one of them is unique. This diversity is one quality that sets Steinbeck apart from the others. His incredible ability to create a varied cast ensemble in every novel. I enjoyed Curly's character the most. Very interesting.
Lennie and George want to move on because they don't want to be slumming it like this in the first place. I feel so sorry for them. George has such fierce love and loyalty to Lennie that even though he can do very well for himself on his own he knows Lennie can't survive a day without his protection. Lennie has some very special needs/disabilities. Their bond is the crux of the story.
Can't wait to read on.
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Welcome, Everyone, to Day One of the Readalong!!!!!!!!!!!!!The author starts the book with several paragraphs of description instead of immediately starting with the two characters. Why do you th..."
I really got a good idea of the relationship between Lennie and George, however did not really grasp why George is so loyal to Lennie and what this means as they move forward. I am guessing we will see more of the way they are connected as the story moves forward. The scene is definitely set and I feel that the choice of scenery is definitely part of the propulsion of the story and perhaps the background and instinct of the characters. I found the section on the mouse to tie in well with the concept of loyalty. Lennie means no harm, however loyalty and harmlessness are obviously two every different things I am guessing.
The juxtaposition of their characters remind me of Laurel & Hardy, where Lennie is Laurel and George is Hardy. When Steinbeck was also describing their appearances I got the sense it was to do with personality too; George, the small but strong and well-defined man exuding confidence; Lennie, the big but imprudent and ill-defined man dragging his arms. They're both in the same clothes, so wherever they've come from they started together, but George being the one in front might symbolise him as the leader, or at least the one that "manages" the other, a little like Hardy for Laurel.Starting with description of the landscape sets the tone and feeling for what's to come. Palettes of hot oranges and yellows, desert-like grounds and sands, with sycamores interrupting and garden-like sculptured stone rabbits hint at their greyness. I was able to "feel" the heat before the characters were introduced into apparently nowhere.
Lennie's unattainable desire to keep and pet a timorous mouse might add to his gentle, well-meaning, but bumbling character. And George's stern refusal for him to have one, adding to his. The mouse, being in the middle, is left to suffer under "man's dominion".
Mod
Why do you think that Steinbeck included the part about the old dog? Why do you think that the book is titled Of Mice and Men?
George confides in Slim. Do you think Slim is trustworthy?
What do you think of Candy attaching himself so quickly to Lennie and George? Do you think that George will take his money and run?
Do you think Curley will stick to the story about his hand getting caught in a machine?
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Welcome, Everyone, to Day One of the Readalong!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The author starts the book with several paragraphs of description instead of immediately starting with the two characters. Why do you th..."
Honestly Lisa, this book has given me the creeps since the first couple pages. I don't know what it is, but I feel that something onerous is only steps or minutes away. I hesitated to comment, thinking I'd quickly get over it, but now in day three the feelings are still there.
The author starts the book with several paragraphs of description instead of immediately starting with the two characters. Why do you th..."
Honestly Lisa, this book has given me the creeps since the first couple pages. I don't know what it is, but I feel that something onerous is only steps or minutes away. I hesitated to comment, thinking I'd quickly get over it, but now in day three the feelings are still there.
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Welcome to Day 2! What an interesting chapter! There is an avalanche of characters, and I am not certain that I have them all straight.
Does anyone else think there might be more to the story o..."
I think that this section reiterates that George and Lennie are not where they want to be, but are trying to find ways to make it work. George is definitely a guardian of sorts for Lennie and is careful to make sure he warns him about things going on around him. Curley definitely seems like a threat and his girlfriend seems like trouble. I think that it is very possible she had something to do with the opening at the camp. I think the man in black bodes well for the boys and seems to be perhaps someone that will offer some protection.
The Old Dog: That dog is representative of old Candy. An Old invalid creature, with nowhere to go to, to take care of, and who has outlived its usefulness. In its execution Candy might see his own future, dying alone, and buried unceremoniously in some nameless ditch. Perhaps this is what prompted him to throw in lot in with George & Lennie; under some vain desperate hope, that at least he would have a place of belonging in his final days.George: At first glance, the duo of George & Lennie make an odd pairing. We suspect that the shrewd George is making use of the simple minded giant, and using his physical skills to rack up some money.
But as the story progresses, we see that George does care for his partner, and is willing to go to great lengths to protect him from those who would harm or exploit him. And it is also clear, that while George is definitely capable at work, his naïve, childish temperament causes more trouble to George than its worth.
The story which he tells of them owning a piece of land to call their own, there both can live as free men, without having to fear others, is him making a home for the gentle giant, where both can be content. Their relationship does grow on the readers as we progress through the story.
Mod
Is anyone nervous that Curley's wife knows about The Plan?
At the end of the chapter, Crooks uses his pink palm to rub his back. When reading Lord of the Flies, pink was mentioned almost a billion times: white and red. In Lord of the Flies, pink symbolized innocence, and red symbolized blood or violence. Is this symbolism of things to come?
This chapter also seems to highlight the social system and the lack of safety nets. How many people get hurt chasing The American Dream? What protections are in place for those that get burned?
Did you see the parallels between Crooks and Curley's wife?
Do you think that this group will ultimately realize their dream?
Same as Bob mentioned already yesterday, this novel is giving me the creeps.The last time i read this book was more then twenty years back, my current experience is totally different, i consider the novel as dark and full of suspense.I'm not sure about the significance of pink here, but the fact Curly's wife is aware of the plan is terrifying...
kubelot wrote: "Same as Bob mentioned already yesterday, this novel is giving me the creeps.The last time i read this book was more then twenty years back, my current experience is totally different, i consider th..."
Thanks! I'm glad I'm not alone with those thoughts. Everything seems to have an ominous aspect to it.
Thanks! I'm glad I'm not alone with those thoughts. Everything seems to have an ominous aspect to it.
I feel the same. Something bad is going to happen. I don’t think George should have revealed his plans to anyone.
Well you guys are definitely on to something with the ominous vibes of the story..Something unpleasant is definitely on it's way. My heart broke for George and Lennie when they were building castles in the air by describing their fantasy of a perfect patch of land. Its this fantasy that takes them from one day to the next. Maureen you're right, George and later Candy shouldn't have blurted out their plans to anyone. This will certainly have consequences.
A question for all..., Why does the book title have mice in it when it should have been rabbits?
I also agree with everyone about this ever-lurking ominous feeling that seems to follow us with many scenes in this story. Several characters that I kind of give that "side-eye" of wondering what their motives are and how our George and Lennie will get caught up in it.
As far as some fun ties to the title, I highly recommend people explore Robert Burns' poem "To a Mouse, On Turning her up in her Nest with the Plough" There is a line in it that includes "the best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men....". Fantastic poet to explore in general, but especially this poem. I am not quite sure how it will tie in with the story yet, but have a feeling these schemes, plans, and heart-gripping moments might mesh with it somehow. Or I might be completely on the wrong track, ha!
Lisa - great flashback with the color pink from the Lord of the Flies readalong :) Very curious how it will play out with this one as well.
As far as some fun ties to the title, I highly recommend people explore Robert Burns' poem "To a Mouse, On Turning her up in her Nest with the Plough" There is a line in it that includes "the best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men....". Fantastic poet to explore in general, but especially this poem. I am not quite sure how it will tie in with the story yet, but have a feeling these schemes, plans, and heart-gripping moments might mesh with it somehow. Or I might be completely on the wrong track, ha!
Lisa - great flashback with the color pink from the Lord of the Flies readalong :) Very curious how it will play out with this one as well.
Thanks Michele. Will check out the poem. It definitely resonates with the story of the book
Here is a link to that poem - it's laid out Side by side comparison
The original Scots vs the English translation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_a_....
Someone opined about the book title and this poem answers that question - why mice and not rabbits...
"John Steinbeck took the title of his 1937 novel Of Mice and Men from a line contained in the penultimate stanza."
I think it adds another layer to this discussion because George and Lennie could certainly plan - and had big dreams.
The original Scots vs the English translation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_a_....
Someone opined about the book title and this poem answers that question - why mice and not rabbits...
"John Steinbeck took the title of his 1937 novel Of Mice and Men from a line contained in the penultimate stanza."
I think it adds another layer to this discussion because George and Lennie could certainly plan - and had big dreams.
Thanks for sharing that link, Karen! I was trying to copy and paste one in yesterday, but it kept turning into strange characters so I am glad you knew how to do that properly :)
Hope everyone has a great Thursday!
Hope everyone has a great Thursday!
Mod
Well I guess I was onto something about the pink.......
What did you think of Curley's wife saying, "Don't you worry none. He was jus' a mutt. You can get another one easy. The whole country is fulla mutts?"
Also, I find it interesting that we never learn Curley's wife name. It reminds me of when Crooks said, "If I say something, why it's just a black person sayin' it." This line is censored a bit because I am not comfortable repeating the original word. It seems that people are defined by one or two attributes.
How do you think the book will end? Will George stay by Lennie's side? Do you think that Lennie will get away?
What did you think of Lennie and Candy still continuing to think of the dream even after the death of Curley's wife?
Why does Lennie keep getting new animals after he mishandles them?
Interesting questions, Lisa.
Curley's wife, wow. I really don't like her because of her meddling. She is bored and probably a little spoiled. She jumps around landing herself in situations that are already out of her control and then she stirs the pot a little bit more, just to see what happens.
Life seems to have very little value in that society. Maybe that's part of the reason why their dreams are so big and very tangible to them .. at least in their minds.
It's kind of mind blowing that for a short story, these characters are so well drawn and real. I have several Steinbeck books on my reading list this year.
Curley's wife, wow. I really don't like her because of her meddling. She is bored and probably a little spoiled. She jumps around landing herself in situations that are already out of her control and then she stirs the pot a little bit more, just to see what happens.
Life seems to have very little value in that society. Maybe that's part of the reason why their dreams are so big and very tangible to them .. at least in their minds.
It's kind of mind blowing that for a short story, these characters are so well drawn and real. I have several Steinbeck books on my reading list this year.
Woke up early just so I could finish it. What a powerful little story that was! Had to feel for both of them, in the end. Lennie truly didn’t know his own strength, and I think George knew all along that he’d have to take matters into his own hands. Thanks Lisa!
This is the second time I've read this book and I'm still amazed at how much it touches me. George loves Lennie so much.
Incredible writing and powerful story.
Incredible writing and powerful story.
Same Karen. It was my second reading as well and despite having known the end my heart broke one more time...as one of the reviews says on my copy, "Such a perfect book" ...Simply splendid characterisation, scenecsetting and story telling by Steinbeck. All in just100 pages.
Mathew, I agree with you. George always knew they were just building castles in the air with their fantasy ranch and when it came to Lennie in the end, he'd rather it came from his own hands than any one else's ...Such heartbreak
Mod
What did you think of the ending? Why do you think George did what he did to Lennie?
What do you think about the symbolism in this book? Are there any modern day parallels?
Just a reminder, our next readalong is Memoirs of a Geisha. It will begin May 1. Here is the link to sign up if you are interested: https://www.goodreads.com/group/invit...
Thanks again for all of your participation!
What an ending! My heart hurts, but it's best for Lennie consider the alternative. He was at peace and happy, poor George.
Thanks to Lisa and all the commenters for expanding the breadth of my enjoyment of this story.
I agree with Kay, my heart hurts with this one! I knew in the back of my mind that this was a short story and knew we were coming to an end, but it still slapped so hard when that ending came. You feel for Lennie and for George, and I just keep running all of the "what ifs" through my mind.
Steinbeck does a magical job of leaving a lasting impression with his stories. It was a treat to be able to see how he can do that with a shorter number of pages as well, since I am mostly used to his longer works. I think this will be one that I will enjoy reading again at some point, taking in more of the foreshadowing and connecting more of the symbolism and themes. This is one that is quite rich with heavy symbolism and without getting into too much of a political or social commentary, I did find myself frustrated with how prevalent some of those challenges still are today and how little of progress we have made in some of those areas over this period of time from when this was written. As much as this one did break my heart with sadness, I do think it gives us some great moments of friendship/companionship and the love and support of that. There were a couple of lines that signify those bittersweet moments that I like to look back on now - "Ain't many guys travel around together," he mused. "I don't know why. Maybe ever'body in the whole damn world is scared of each other." And also "A guy needs somebody - to be near him." He whined, "A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. Don't make no difference who the guy is, long's he's with you."
Wonderful book and I am going to give the film with Gary Sinise and John Malkovich a try this weekend.
Thanks to everyone for a great readalong :)
Steinbeck does a magical job of leaving a lasting impression with his stories. It was a treat to be able to see how he can do that with a shorter number of pages as well, since I am mostly used to his longer works. I think this will be one that I will enjoy reading again at some point, taking in more of the foreshadowing and connecting more of the symbolism and themes. This is one that is quite rich with heavy symbolism and without getting into too much of a political or social commentary, I did find myself frustrated with how prevalent some of those challenges still are today and how little of progress we have made in some of those areas over this period of time from when this was written. As much as this one did break my heart with sadness, I do think it gives us some great moments of friendship/companionship and the love and support of that. There were a couple of lines that signify those bittersweet moments that I like to look back on now - "Ain't many guys travel around together," he mused. "I don't know why. Maybe ever'body in the whole damn world is scared of each other." And also "A guy needs somebody - to be near him." He whined, "A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. Don't make no difference who the guy is, long's he's with you."
Wonderful book and I am going to give the film with Gary Sinise and John Malkovich a try this weekend.
Thanks to everyone for a great readalong :)
I just watched the movie with Gary Sinise and John Malkovich . It was very good and stayed true to the book.
What a great novella, I'm glad I could read it here, thanks Everyone!
Michelle wrote: "I agree with Kay, my heart hurts with this one! I knew in the back of my mind that this was a short story and knew we were coming to an end, but it still slapped so hard when that ending came. You ..."Excellent insightful review. Thanks!
Thanks for joining today! This thread is to discuss Of Mice and Men as we progress through the book. The purpose for this discussion board is to keep pace with the schedule posted.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!