February 2022: "The Juniper Tree" by Barbara Comyns

[Liesl]

Welcome to the discussion for the February 2022 Fiction read on the theme of Fairy Tales/Retellings. We will be reading The Juniper Tree by Barbara Comyns.

I have to admit that I am coming into this without any prior knowledge of the work, or the actual fairy tale that it is based upon. I like to read without influence so I try to avoid spoilers in articles but I know many of you enjoy some inspiration. I have attached an article from the Paris Review of Books on the author Barbara Comyns and also an article from The New York Times on The Juniper Tree.

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/bo...

To get our discussion going:

1. Have any of you read any work by Barbara Comyns?
2. Are you aware of this particular fairy tale?
3. What expectations do you have for a retelling to be considered successful or worth the effort?

I'm looking forward to getting into this.

Just adding the link to the book in archive.org where you can try to get free access. Thanks Alwynne for the tip.

https://openlibrary.org/search?q=the+...

[Anita]

Thank you for setting this up Liesl. I am going in completely blind on this one and know nothing about the original fairytale or author. But I generally enjoy fairytales, so I am looking forward to it (and am glad to have a book to put towards our Q1 challenge to boot).

[Alwynne]

I loved Grimms' fairy tales as a child, read them over and over, and this is a favourite, deliciously macabre. I've also read a number of Comyns's novels, which divide into domestic gothic and slightly more surreal, I think. I've been meaning to get around to this one for a while, so looking forward to the discussion. I don't have any particular thoughts on retelling going in, except that I enjoy writing that draws on myth, legend and folktales, so that's a bonus here.

Thanks for the articles btw, Lucy Scholes also appears to talk about Comyns on Backlisted Podcast. Also noticed that this novel's available for free online loan direct from archive.org, just need to register to read it, if anyone wants to try it but doesn't have access to a copy.

[Liesl]

Anita wrote: "Thank you for setting this up Liesl. I am going in completely blind on this one and know nothing about the original fairytale or author. But I generally enjoy fairytales, so I am looking forward to..."

I meant to add a comment to apologise for overstepping any bounds. You both have so much work with setting up all the challenges and polls, I thought that I really should give it a try and make it part of my "leading".

And I am also grateful to be forced to read a book I planned for the Q1 challenge. January was a disaster for me with reading so I am really hoping that this is the book that gets the pace going this year.

[Liesl]

Alwynne wrote: "I loved Grimms' fairy tales as a child, read them over and over, and this is a favourite, deliciously macabre. I've also read a number of Comyns's novels, which divide into domestic gothic and slig..."

Those descriptions of Comyn's work sound wonderful! Thanks for the tip about the free online loan. I've added it in the original post so that people can read about it in the blurb and hopefully join in.

[Anita]

Liesl wrote: "Anita wrote: "Thank you for setting this up Liesl. I am going in completely blind on this one and know nothing about the original fairytale or author. But I generally enjoy fairytales, so I am look..."

No bounds overstepped, we appreciate you taking the reins!

[Alwynne]

Liesl wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "I loved Grimms' fairy tales as a child, read them over and over, and this is a favourite, deliciously macabre. I've also read a number of Comyns's novels, which divide into domestic..."

Thanks for that Liesl, the online library via archive.org is completely free to join and use, and has a great selection, some books can be downloaded and kept as PDF files, others read onscreen, depending on availability.

[Anita]

I'm about halfway through this book, and I have to admit that though I find myself reading it easily, I find it quite meandering. Not to say this is a bad thing; I do enjoy reading it, I just wonder when/if anything exciting will happen.

[Liesl]

Anita wrote: "I'm about halfway through this book, and I have to admit that though I find myself reading it easily, I find it quite meandering. Not to say this is a bad thing; I do enjoy reading it, I just wonde..."

I'm also about halfway through and the story does flow along quite easily. I have had moments where I've been thinking the same, Anita and then I wondered if it was because I am unfamiliar with the original fairy tale.

One article that I saw on this novel, but must admit I haven't fully read, talked about the way it re-characterised the evil stepmother from traditional tales. So far I'm not sure which character I would allocate the role of stepmother but I definitely think that her mother is an awful person.

At this point, following the conversation that was in our random chat recently, I think I should warn some of you that there are some racist attitudes expressed by the mother. I can't say that I am shocked by the attitude because there are people in the world like that but I want to let you know in case it is a trigger for you.

[Sophie]

I went into this knowing nothing of the original Grimm's fairytale this retells. Upon finishing, I read a synopsis of the original tale and see where some of the story is drawn from.
I didn't understand when Bella describes the baby as so sweet and beautiful yet when she holds him she says she is sort of repulsed by him. But she doesn't exactly say why. My thought was, hmm.. foreshadowing of evil stepmother syndrome?

Although this story takes place in 1980s England, it has a feel to it that it is a couple of decades earlier.

I must say that the original tale sounds like it was very gruesome and dark. Also, this made the verse at the beginning of the book make much more sense.

[Story]

I read and enjoyed this novel several years ago but can't remember it well enough to discuss it. But I do think reading the original fairy tale was helpful. Here is it, in case you are interested.

https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm047...

[Anita]

Story wrote: "I read and enjoyed this novel several years ago but can't remember it well enough to discuss it. But I do think reading the original fairy tale was helpful. Here is it, in case you are interested.
..."

Wow! That was dark! Thank you for sharing

[Anita]

I finished tonight, and definitely after reading the original with the link Story shared, the story took on a whole new life for me. I was already noting Bella's relationship with Bernard as off balanced in many ways - emotional, intellectual, and even economically - and then later how she reacts to him and just continues to give small steps along the way in losing herself and indivuality, and independence. It all comes to a head quite abruptly. I thought it was pretty enjoyable, especially once I read the original.

[Jen]

I happened upon this thread and I’m excited to find you reading this. I bought a copy last year when reading the author with another group, but I didn’t make it to this one, so I’ll take this opportunity to pick it up now. The book I did read was The Vet's Daughter which I can’t recommend enough if you like your books to be slightly offbeat with a sense of foreboding. It sounds like this one might be in the same thing and I’m looking forward to it.

[Jen]

Story wrote: "I read and enjoyed this novel several years ago but can't remember it well enough to discuss it. But I do think reading the original fairy tale was helpful. Here is it, in case you are interested.
..."

Thanks for posting that, I would prefer to read the original first.

[Liesl]

Story wrote: "I read and enjoyed this novel several years ago but can't remember it well enough to discuss it. But I do think reading the original fairy tale was helpful. Here is it, in case you are interested.
..."

Thanks for sharing that Story. I left reading this until I was finished the novel. I don't like spoilers so I thought it might influence my reading.

As Anita said, it did explain some little oddities in the story, like the red bunny slippers. I'm glad the author altered her story so that what happens is (view spoiler)[ not actually a premeditated act that Bella does because she wants to inherit Bernard's money but an accident that Bella tries to cover up because she is clearly not mentally balanced at this point in time and is scared of losing Bernard (hide spoiler)].

[Liesl]

Anita wrote: "I was already noting Bella's relationship with Bernard as off balanced in many ways - emotional, intellectual, and even economically - and then later how she reacts to him and just continues to give small steps along the way in losing herself and indivuality, and independence..."

There were a few moments in the latter half of the story that I found the writing a little sloppy and I was getting a little frustrated with the voice of the narrator to be honest. I know that it was probably meant to reflect (view spoiler)[ how much Bella wanted to feel needed by Bernard but there were times that it seemed very difficult to imagine that she was giving him advice. (hide spoiler)].

I will say that I much prefer the moral of this novel to the original story and now I understand the comment that this is a new portrayal of the step-mother. In the original we get the usual "evil" woman who is greedy and wants all the wealth or power for herself. I think this is a more nuanced illustration for women about the danger of giving up your independence and your identity when you marry someone. I really loved the little reference to Virginia Woolf's "Room of One's Own" with the little room that Bella furnishes in the basement.

I'm sorry but I do have to say that Bernard's attitude to Gretta's clothing and belongings, and the way her still kept referring to her as his wife was really creepy.

Just before the climactic event, the author introduced a new character, Allison. It was eerily similar to the way that Bernard had acted with Bella. How reliable do you think Bella's narration of this was?

[Liesl]

Jen wrote: "I happened upon this thread and I’m excited to find you reading this. I bought a copy last year when reading the author with another group, but I didn’t make it to this one, so I’ll take this oppor..."

Looking forward to your comments, Jen.

[Sophie]

Liesl wrote: "Anita wrote: "I was already noting Bella's relationship with Bernard as off balanced in many ways - emotional, intellectual, and even economically - and then later how she reacts to him and just co..."
I know what you mean about Bella's reliability as the narrator. The part that also felt off-kilter for me was her relationship with her ex Stephen. She seems like she became quite independent after she hit rock bottom when she got the job at the antique shop and set herself up with a nice routine with her daughter and doing what she enjoyed. So I questioned why she would let the ex back into her life and seemed at times like she considered trying to rekindle the relationship. I thought, "is she the type of woman who absolutely needs a man in her life?"
(view spoiler)[ I thought that jealousy of Bernard's interest in and treatment of Allison drove Bella over the edge. He was grooming her replacement. (hide spoiler)]

The book did tend to ramble on in places. Reading the original tale after reading this story totally changed it for me. (Thank you for the link, Story.) That made for an interesting experience.

[Liesl]

Sophie wrote: "I know what you mean about Bella's reliability as the narrator. The part that also felt off-kilter for me was her relationship with her ex Stephen. She seems like she became quite independent after she hit rock bottom when she got the job at the antique shop and set herself up with a nice routine with her daughter and doing what she enjoyed. So I questioned why she would let the ex back into her life and seemed at times like she considered trying to rekindle the relationship.."

Sophie that is a really good example of a part of the story that seems to be unreliably told. I don't question the part about them spending time together because I have known similar situations where guys like Stephen keep coming back and making their ex feel like they want to get back together and enjoying the benefits of the relationship without truly committing. I just found her claims to be uninterested and the description of her benevolence towards his new girlfriend to be very difficult to believe.

Did anyone else feel that Bella's relationship with Bernard was basically a more sophisticated version of her relationship with Stephen?

[Anita]

Your choice of words about Bernard and Bella, and later on Allison was exactly what I was thinking Sophie - (view spoiler)[that he was grooming them. I got very much Lolita vibes in that sense. Even though the relationship was strangely non-sexual on his part, it's like he was grooming them for intellectual companionship. (hide spoiler)] also, by this point Bella had clearly suffered mental collapse and is severely depressed and not herself.

I didn't catch the Room of One's Own reference on my own, but love it and completely agree, Liesl. Imo, the story felt like it was set a decade or two earlier. I also think taking a good hard look at Bella's mother in retrospect gives us an idea of how things may go for Bella on the relationship front. Even the ending alluded to a new dependency on Paul. Sharing the book with you all greatly adds to what I get from it, I may need to revise my star rating.

[Liesl]

Anita wrote: "I also think taking a good hard look at Bella's mother in retrospect gives us an idea of how things may go for Bella on the relationship front. ..."

This seems like a great intro to actually discuss Bella's mother, and perhaps even the influence of the marital relationship that she witnessed growing up. How do you think that Bella's relationship with her mother influences the way that she interacts with her own child, and also her relationship with John Bernard? Do you think the lack of love that she received as a child influences the way that she interacts with her romantic partners? Or do you think, perhaps, that those relationships are more influenced by the feeling of abandonment that she experienced when her father left?

[Liesl]

There is one other character in the story that we really should discuss: Gertrude. Our perspective on Gertrude is wholly narrated by Bella so I guess we really need to ask ourselves, is Gertrude as perfect and amazing as Bella has described her? Or is she actually another victim of Bernard?

For most of the story I had just accepted Bella's description of Gertrude as this incredibly sophisticated and amazing woman. However, after Allison was introduced to the story at the end as another of Bernard's grooming victims, I started wondering whether Gertrude might also have been groomed by Bernard. Although Bella talks about her being a Director of Bernard's business, she doesn't really seem to leave her home all that much. Bella is also made a Director of the business once they are married.

And then there is Gertrude's sister who is constantly quarrelling with Bernard. I started to wonder whether part of her problem with Bernard is that she could see that Gertrude's life was consumed by Bernard.

What do you think?

[Anita]

Liesl wrote: "There is one other character in the story that we really should discuss: Gertrude. Our perspective on Gertrude is wholly narrated by Bella so I guess we really need to ask ourselves, is Gertrude as..."

This is definitely something I've wondered about as well. I do wonder what we don't see in regards to Gertrude and Bernard's relationship, and often wondered at how happy Gertrude could be with Bernard. Their relationship was defined by Bella, as you said, and Bella really is an unreliable narrator imo. Again, the intriduction of Allison at the end made everything seem circular and put the previous women's relationship to Bernard in a different light - both Bella and Gertrude's.

[Sophie]

Anita wrote: "Liesl wrote: "There is one other character in the story that we really should discuss: Gertrude. Our perspective on Gertrude is wholly narrated by Bella so I guess we really need to ask ourselves, ..."
The thing about Gertrude is that she was the one who found Bella. I questioned right at the beginning that she purposely was out on the hunt for someone like Bella to take home to Bernard. I wondered if they were partners in the entire scheme. But of course, as you say, we are getting Bellas POV.

[Liesl]

Sophie wrote: "The thing about Gertrude is that she was the one who found Bella. I questioned right at the beginning that she purposely was out on the hunt for someone like Bella to take home to Bernard. I wondered if they were partners in the entire scheme. But of course, as you say, we are getting Bellas POV..."

I had forgotten about that but Bella certainly does indicate that Gertrude was the one who initiated their friendship. This feels very creepy.