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The Foundling
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The Foundling Feb 2022 Group Read SPOILERS thread
I jumped the gun and started rereading last week when my CDs were delivered, but I’ve tried to sick to just a chapter a day, so I don’t finish too fast!I’m really enjoying the first several chapters as Gilly reacts to the stultifying, formal atmosphere created around him by his guardian and the army of servants who’ve served the household since his father’s time. And then as he first gets out into the world!
I read it with this group some time ago (I don't know if I'm going to re-read it now).I've enjoyed it very much.
One of my favorite characters was the uncle, a complex character, a bit overbearing, but also affectionate and well meaning (not an ogre by any means). A pity there wasn't enough space in the book for further exploring the relationship between him and his own son (the cousin who is a good friend to Gilly: someone in the old discussion said he could have been the hero of his own novel).
Perhaps one of the reasons I liked it is that the romance takes very much the back seat in this one: I usually like it when it's not the main point of the story (also I seem to prefer Heyer's male characters). The adventures and the silly romps are more important, also Gilly's journey to indipendence and self confidence.
If I remember correctly there's also a nice, "twist" ending to the story of the titular "foundling", it was fun because it was one of the rare occasions I found Heyer putting a particular emphasis on the physical attraction between the man and the woman (nothing shocking, of course, but it's there).
Moloch wrote: "I read it with this group some time ago (I don't know if I'm going to re-read it now).I've enjoyed it very much.
One of my favorite characters was the uncle, a complex character, a bit overbeari..."
I think I mentioned that in my original review, Heyer gives us a supporting character, a cousin who could be one of her typical heroes, but places him firmly in the background, merely a supporting prop cheering on his “little cousin!”
I love this as a coming of age story, of a diminutive, much-coddled young man setting out to decide if he’s a man, or just a Duke. Along the way, he notices it would be nice to have his entourage about him to attend to his comforts, but he perseveres. I like to think when he’s finally back home, he can settle comfortably back into and appreciate his life and entourage, but feel more that he’s earned it - and stand up for himself a bit more!
I've checked and the old group read was in June 2018.There is also no real "villain" in this book (not even Gilly's kidnapper, who is portrayed as quite comical), right? So this reinforces my memory of a heartwarming and charming read.
Susan in NC wrote: "I jumped the gun and started rereading last week when my CDs were delivered, but I’ve tried to sick to just a chapter a day, so I don’t finish too fast!I’m really enjoying the first several chapt..."
I enjoyed that too, especially the section where Lord Lionel ( well meaningly ) harangues commandingly and for minutes on end, while Gilly manages the odd 'yes' or 'no' as the case may be , having signally failed in his little attempt to cut it short and join the ladies. Lord Lionel then winds it all up by saying what a comfortable prose they have had, have they not .......
Hello again to one of my favorite side characters, cousin Gideon!And Lord Lionel is pretty funny, as well.
Hello, old friends <3
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Hello again to one of my favorite side characters, cousin Gideon!And Lord Lionel is pretty funny, as well.
Hello, old friends <3"
They are indeed old friends. A large cast but each member given their own character. Quite wonderful!
yes, a wonderful read and I have just started. The set up for how Gilly is rich and yet smothered by his Uncle and even his servants is masterful. I can't wait until he escapes! I would agree Gideon is also interesting and his father is almost my favorite character because of his interactions with his son and with Gilly.
Jackie wrote: "yes, a wonderful read and I have just started. The set up for how Gilly is rich and yet smothered by his Uncle and even his servants is masterful. I can't wait until he escapes! I would agree Gid..."
I have finished the book - each time I read it I love it even more! A really big cast of characters, every one a distinct personality. It doesn't get much time in the book, but I love the romance & how perfect Gilly & Harriet are for each other.
The interactions of Gideon & his father after his father discovers Gilly's ring, & the scene where Liversedge misjudges Gideon are wonderfully written!
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "Hello again to one of my favorite side characters, cousin Gideon!And Lord Lionel is pretty funny, as well.
Hello, old friends
They are indeed old friends. A large cast but ..."
That’s one of my favorite things about this book - I’m shuffling along, reading and listening to a couple chapters a day, chucking to myself, such a treat, don’t want to miss anything!
I'm going to do a quick re-skim to find the insults. I remember "Gallows Cheat" but I know there were more!
I kind of feel that Liversedge was the butt of a lot of the jokes, but I have not yet encountered him this read.
I just read about Gilly's meeting with Tom and for the first time it seems surprising that he is willing to temporarily adopt the boy knowing Tom's father doesn't know where he is and must be extremely worried. But Heyer presents it as natural given Gilly's own problems with his authority figures and on every other read it didn't even occur to me that it wasn't the most responsible thing he could do.
I think Tom is a wonderful character who, once he gets over his initial suspicion, admires "Mr Rufford" whole-heartedly and we know how helpful he ends up being.
It's interesting thinking about the similarities and especially the differences in how Gilly and Tom were raised, when the goal for both was to be "a Gentleman".
I think Gilly feels a bit of a kinship with Tom. They are in the same situation, with Gilly breaking away and doing his own thing with unknown dangers, and Tom doing the same thing.
Jackie wrote: "I just read about Gilly's meeting with Tom and for the first time it seems surprising that he is willing to temporarily adopt the boy knowing Tom's father doesn't know where he is and must be extre..."Yes, I was thinking, too, that Gilly realizes, listening to Tom complain about how restrictive his father was, in pursuit of turning Tom into what he THINKS a gentleman is, does and doesn’t do, that his Uncle Lionel, while a stuffed shirt, seemed to want Gilly to be competent to take care of himself, while appreciating the immense responsibilities that come with his role. Unfortunately, he didn’t realize Gilly might want to tailor the role of Duke a bit to himself, not just be a cutout of his father!
Tom gets in some hilarious scrapes early on, (I’m in chapter 12, I think), and I think along with testing Gilly’s diplomatic skills to extract Tom, and make everyone whole again, it makes Gilly aware of the enormous responsibility Lionel undertook. And Gilly wasn’t as rambunctious as Tom - easy to see why Tom’s father, with loving anxiety for him to have the best, went a bit heavy on the restrictions, and despite his business acumen and worldliness, thought a brutal taskmaster of a tutor was the way to whip him into a gentleman!
I am loving this reread and relisten, you can’t adjust the speed of a CD audiobook (well, I don’t think you can), so I am just letting the words wash over me, trying to stick to a chapter or two a day, I want to make it last! The dialogue, the characters, the humor - Abigail pointed out to me that she loves this book for the way Gilly gets out among all sorts of people, and interacts with them - I do, too! I mean, the scene where Gilly deals with the villagers after Tom’s backward animal race, and then the scene of the banged-up Mr. Liversedge figuring out who Gilly is, and plotting his comeuppance over his brother’s loud objections, and the other crook’s drooling over the loot to be had from the House of Sale - chilling, but brilliantly done!
Interesting that so many of you highlight the differences between Gilly’s and Tom’s upbringing. That aspect of the book is a subtle comment on the gradations of a class-bound society (Gilly being trained to make those below him comfortable, Tom’s father striving upward with only a stereotypical sense of what is above), and those gradations are integral to the plot of the book—masterful integration of theme and story!This book feels like one of Heyer’s most realistic books, even with all the comic episodes and coincidence-laden plot. Part of that sense of reality lies in the fact that Gilly, for all the fun, is in real danger and that confirms the rationale for Uncle Lionel’s (and his staff’s) care for him. I come away from this book feeling I have a clearer sense of what Regency life was really like—which isn’t what you’d expect from a story with a protagonist who’s a duke.
I also noticed this time around that Gilly could have been in danger on the Grand Tour if it wasn't for the assiduous protection of Captain Belper.I think that Gilly will now have more of an understanding of his Uncle's anxiety!
And What About Gideon? Raised by a father who could be seen as spending more time and energy on his cousin Gilly. Or is it that Gideon escaped such an upbringing as Gilly had, was left to his own devices, and became more independent because of that?
Carol wrote, “I think that GIlly now will have more of an understanding . . . True! It’s notable in this book how nobody is entirely wrong, and nobody (except perhaps the mostly absent heroine) is entirely right.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "And What About Gideon? Raised by a father who could be seen as spending more time and energy on his cousin Gilly. Or is it that Gideon escaped such an upbringing as Gilly had, was left to his own d..."Gideon seems thankful to have escaped Gilly's suffocating upbringing!
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "And What About Gideon? Raised by a father who could be seen as spending more time and energy on his cousin Gilly. Or is it that Gideon escaped such an upbringing as Gilly had, w..."I tend to disagree with Carol, I think there is indeed a little touch of loneliness and jealousy (very mild, very friendly, very sympathetic) in Gideon like Critterbee says.
Sorry, it's been some time since I've read the book... but I remember there's a scene between Lord Lionel and Gideon where there's some sort of... not tension, it's too strong a word, but like some awkwardness and I got the feeling there was a bit of mild resentment or a touch of sadness on the part of Gideon that his father seemed more dedicated to Gilly than to himself. Like these 2 love each other but don't communicate very well.
That's why at the end of the book I was left wanting for some more for these 2.
I realize it could be just my imagination running a little wild aided by the fact that Heyer created 2 characters that are secondary but still very fleshed out. I like to imagine further developments and little asides in the stories I read.
On this read, I realized there were funny scenes I've only ever skimmed over, I think racing ahead to see what happens to Gilly. like this bit of humor as "the bad guys" talk:Mr Liversedge cast him a look of ineffable contempt. ‘If you, Joseph, had ever had one tenth of my vision you would not to-day be keeping a low thieves’ ken!’ he declared. ‘That’s the dandy!’ retorted Mr Mimms bitterly. ‘Go on! Insult poor Nat as never did you a mite of harm!’
Sam/Swithin and his brother hobnob with Nat Shifnal, a criminal that might deserve his own book. I hadn't remembered until I noticed it his time that Nat's best technique for robbing The Quality is to blend in with their servants and appear non threatening.
I also find Wragby to be a very funny character.how am I to get rid of him, if you’ve killed him? Too hasty, that’s what you are!’ ‘I haven’t,’ Gideon said shortly. ‘At least – Here, get some water, and throw it over him! I don’t want him dead!’ ‘Pity you didn’t think of that afore, sir,’ said Wragby severely. ‘Nice sort of bobbery to be going on in a gentleman’s chambers!’
Jackie wrote: "I also find Wragby to be a very funny character.how am I to get rid of him, if you’ve killed him? Too hasty, that’s what you are!’ ‘I haven’t,’ Gideon said shortly. ‘At least – Here, get some wat..."
Yes! I just read that scene last night - there are so many wonderful “extra” characters in this book - such a treat, that’s why it’s a favorite for me! I left off last night just as Tom confessed his ‘shot’ from an empty gun was actually a ginger beer cork, and how the magistrate laughed and laughed! Gilly is charming, takes time with people, brings out the best in them. A lesson for us all! ;)
Moloch wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "And What About Gideon? Raised by a father who could be seen as spending more time and energy on his cousin Gilly. Or is it that Gideon escaped suc..."I agree with you, Moloch. I also felt Gideon feels a little 'left out' with less attention from his father than is shown to Gilly. I can't make up my mind whether Gilly is paid more attention due to feeling the need to compensate for his situation, or whether the father feels a greater attachment to Gilly.
Jackie wrote: "On this read, I realized there were funny scenes I've only ever skimmed over, I think racing ahead to see what happens to Gilly. like this bit of humor as "the bad guys" talk:Mr Liversedge cast ..."
I've just read this part Jackie, and found myself having a chuckle. There is quite a bit of humour in the book.
Mod
I'm not sure what else he could have done, though, except abandon him. He has no way of contacting Tom's father and he can't force Tom to give him the information; and Tom has run away because he's unhappy, and told him the little he has in confidence. I think looking after Tom for the time being, with a view to interceding with his father for him in due course, was as good a way of dealing with it as any.
Jenny wrote: "Jackie wrote: "I just read about Gilly's meeting with Tom and for the first time it seems surprising that he is willing to temporarily adopt the boy knowing Tom's father doesn't know where he is an..."Yes, that's the conclusion I came to Jenny ( more or less) . I did wonder if it was a bit similar to Sherry's friends hiding Hero from him, but no, that was deliberate and for lesson-teaching purposes.
So nice for Gilly to have the entirely charming , if reprehensibly pranking, Tom around. And Tom wholeheartedly admires Gilly as a bang up person, even being willing to fight Gideon for him , much to the latter's amusement.
Mod
A true friend, in short—
Jenny wrote: "Gideon acts as a foil to the rest of Gilly's family and retinue, doesn't he? He loves him and is willing to come immediately to his rescue when it seems to be necessary, but unlike them is also wil..."& another example of GH playing with the genre, as Gideon is more the traditional romance hero.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Gideon acts as a foil to the rest of Gilly's family and retinue, doesn't he? He loves him and is willing to come immediately to his rescue when it seems to be necessary, but unlike th..."Yes! And so cheeky , since it’s a genre (“dashing, heroic, TALL Regency gentleman”) she basically invented. That just tickles my funny bone, that she has Gideon gladly step aside, cheer from the wings, rather than be the alpha male star of the show!
I don't think I'm going to get to this one this month. It is a favourite though and I'm enjoying all your observations on it.
Teresa wrote: "I don't think I'm going to get to this one this month. It is a favourite though and I'm enjoying all your observations on it."Enjoy, Teresa, I hope it perks you up as much as it did me!
Mod
What I mean is that Gideon shows up his father and Gilly's retinue by treating Gilly the way they should do, but don't. He shows us what's wrong with the way they behave, and that another way is possible.
just started the re-read ... I love how the contradictions in Lord Lionel's attitude toward Gilly are revealed in their very first dialogue: "Dinner will await your convenience."
"... And now make haste, if you please."
‘It is high time you realised that you are of age, and may do as you please. Now, be off, and don’t neglect to change your stockings!"
The Foundling was not one of my favourites on first reading it. The re-reading starts promising, though.
That is so Lord Lionel!
Sabine wrote: "just started the re-read ... I love how the contradictions in Lord Lionel's attitude toward Gilly are revealed in their very first dialogue: "Dinner will await your convenience."
"... And now ma..."
Yes, great observations! And his further conversations with him make it clear he is devoted to him and his interests, but controls every aspect of his life!
"The book was anonymously published, and had, of course, been cut by the Quarterly. It was entitled Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus." Setting the novel in time: Frankenstein was first published in January 1818. So The Foundling is set in 1818 and comes late in the Regency Period - as late as GH went, for all I know.
"cut by the Quarterly" obviously means that it got bad reviews from this magazine.
"Prominent victims of scathing reviews included Irish novelist Lady Morgan (Sydney Owenson), English poet and essayist Walter Savage Landor, as well as English novelist Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and her husband Percy Bysshe Shelley." (wikipedia)
(... once more I stand in awe before Mrs. Heyer's research - without Internet! ;-))
Sabine wrote: ""The book was anonymously published, and had, of course, been cut by the Quarterly. It was entitled Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus." "cut by the Quarterly" obviously means that it got bad reviews from this magazine."
I took that to mean that the version Gilly is reading is abridged.
Mod
That's what I thought! But now I'm not so sure.
Jenny wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I took that to mean that the version Gilly is reading is abridged. ..."That's what I thought! But now I'm not so sure."
abridged - did they do that back then? with a novel just published? - nothing of the sort is mentioned in the publication history of Frankenstein (wikipedia). It would have meant a lot of work: all the manual typesetting. I don't think a publisher would follow the first edition immediately with an abridged one, for fear the full version would not sell.
I’m late to the party but I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s comments. I have only read this book once before but I enjoyed it although it’s by no means in my top ten. I think it shows enormous insight on Heyer’s part, into the frustrations of an over-protected young man. I wonder if she observed that in her brother? I really liked Gideon and would have loved him to have his own book!
I think this story is one where Heyer gathered her cast of characters and fleshed them out - really well. I don’t usually like books with so many characters but she does a great job in this one.
Regarding “cut by the Quarterly . . .” I suspect it means that the Quarterly Review failed to review it—as in the expression “giving the cut direct,” turning one’s back on someone.
there's a nice twist in the last scene: it turns out that Gideon is over-protective, too - at least for the "new" Gilly, who rebuffs him. Gideon resembles his own father here, more than he would like to acknowledge, maybe.
Abigail wrote: "Regarding “cut by the Quarterly . . .” I suspect it means that the Quarterly Review failed to review it—as in the expression “giving the cut direct,” turning one’s back on someone."I had to look that up ... and yeah, I found it (but haven't read it yet) - there was a review in the Quarterly: http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Review...
just one line from the review: "Our readers will guess from this summary, what a tissue of horrible and disgusting absurdity this work presents."
Sabine wrote: "there's a nice twist in the last scene: it turns out that Gideon is over-protective, too - at least for the "new" Gilly, who rebuffs him. Gideon resembles his own father here, more than he would li..."I wonder if, despite all turning out well and the changes in Gilly, Gideon’s confidence is a bit shaken by the fact that Gilly was in real danger. I thought Gideon’s intervention at the end seemed at odds with his previous behaviour. Perhaps they will all have to learn how to adjust to this ‘new’ Gilly!
I think they will, especially his Uncle.
Not sure what’s up with comments, but I just received comments from February 12 on! I agree with Susan in Perthshire, would have loved Gideon to get his own book. But I guess that is basically many other of Heyer’s romances - handsome, tall, self-assured gentleman, often a soldier or former soldier, falls in love! So, I guess we did sort of get Gideon’s story…This is one of my top five favorites- feels almost Dickensian, all the fleshed out characters from all classes!
What did everyone think?