SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Sunshine
Group Reads Discussions 2022
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"Sunshine" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*
I thought it was a good story idea but the execution was not good. I found it rambling and repetitious.It was very heavy on the 3 Bs: Baking, Blood and Baths.
For all the emphasis on baking an included recipe might have been nice.
I remember really enjoying this when I read it, but it's been several years so my memory is rather hazy.
Mod
I had a lot of fun reading this. Maybe not in the way I expected, but fun all the same :) I will never look at [redacted] the same way ever again, not that I look much at [redacted] on any given day.I really wish I'd marked some of the things that made me laugh. There's one part in the very beginning where Sunshine thinks that the last thing she'd want in a boyfriend is a permanent hard-on. At that point I started thinking of her as a toned down T. Kingfisher character. And then later, after/during the scene with the [redacted], she says something about how it's normal for fourteen year olds to wistfully pine after vampires, but implies that one should grow out of it :D (Something along those lines, I don't have exact quotes.)
This book reminded me of watching True Blood: small town with several supernatural characters, MC works at a diner/coffeehouse, MC has a latent magical talent, etc. Maybe these are common tropes in the PNR subgenre?Initially I enjoyed the first person narration. As the story went on, the MC seemed to be thinking too much about her normal routine. It's hard to be in suspense when the character is mostly worried about baking and her mom and her boyfriend. We see very little of Bo's gang. Setting aside the mundane activities, the plot is simple - too simple for the book length. So I would have liked it either to be shorter or to have more conflict and complications.
Chris wrote: "This book reminded me of watching True Blood: small town with several supernatural characters, MC works at a diner/coffeehouse, MC has a latent magical talent, etc. Maybe these are common tropes in..."It reminded me of Sookie as well!
Peeking here despite not having finished yet. My take on the narrative style is that while I agree it rambles on about mundane things it does have a distinct voice that really makes it feel like I'm being told a story by a very specific person (who tends to ramble). So I'm enjoying that aspect of it.
Another one of those open ended books - seems like a series might have been planned or else a sequel
Chris wrote: "This book reminded me of watching True Blood: small town with several supernatural characters, MC works at a diner/coffeehouse, MC has a latent magical talent, etc. Maybe these are common tropes in the PNR subgenre?"What is PNR? Oh! I looked it up so I will add here:
Paranormal Romance.
Like Christopher I am peeking in here before finishing.
Vampires, smashing, love it. Plus Others, demons, goblins (or maybe that was just 'like a goblin'). And now also incubi, succubi, thing-thralls, werewolves, were-pumas, were-bears, were-coyotes, were-raccoons, were-skunks, were-CHICKENS? What the hell happened in this world?!
It looks very like an alternate history where the changes went WAY back.
CBRetriever wrote: "Another one of those open ended books - seems like a series might have been planned or else a sequel""I'd love to write more about Sunshine — I know quite a bit about what happens to her — but it's not up to me. If you want to nag someone, find the mailing address of the Story Council and nag them to send me the sequel." Robin McKinley
I wanted to like this book, but it was really a lot of dull ramblings. I like how she introduces the way the world is now all the while telling the story. And of course, vampires! But really I like the idea of the vampires being monsters, not hot half-naked guys. Very different. I was not interested in her inner monologue; it was just too much. Maybe because it kept bouncing off my rambling inner monologue. I also made the mistake of listening to this and Laural Merlington sounds like an old squeaky lady who should not be in the audio business. My big take-away is I think the author really likes cinnamon rolls. But who doesn't?
Part 3 - 62%I have been wondering why she is SO freaked out by the relationship ; surely she is not the first person to care for a vampire. "There must be all sorts of books and movies about it" I thought, even besides reality.
It was illegal to write stories and make movies about sex between vampires and humans. It was, in fact, one of the few mandates the global council really agreed on. The stories and movies got written and made anyway, but if the government caught you at it, they threw your ass in jail. For a long time.
Illegal, wow. That is pretty serious and means they're not living in the US of A with current Constitution.
Still can't be the first or only though. Forbidden Fruit.!
Part 3 - 80%This is losing me because there are so many magical and otherworldly things. Now Triffids?! Didn't John Wyndham just invent Triffids for The Day of the Triffids , they are not a preexisting myth are they?
And sorcerers. Magical goo that lives in your bag, car charms, wards that dissolve in paint, familars, fetches. Plus, telepathy... Really it started to lose at the Teleportation. It's just too much for me to believe in. Pick one or three and make it more scary! If not scary for readers, at least more peril for the protagonist.
I read this in print and finished it yesterday evening.1. What did you think of the vampires?
I liked them and thought they were interesting, but I wanted to know more. I was frustrated, especially earlier on in the book, that Sunshine kept refraining from asking questions about various things because she “didn’t want to know”. I did! I wanted to know more about their “lives”, what they did all night (aside from "eating"), what specifically Constantine’s different approach to vampireness was and more specific details about how that approach affected his abilities, whether any other vampires were like him (presumably so, but where were they?), and so on.
I think some of the less well-off vampires in this world are probably working the night shift at 24-hour laundromats, because apparently they’re awesome at laundry. After Constantine bled all over Sunshine and her nightgown to heal her wound, she woke up and there was no blood. And she noted near the end that Constantine could warm his body up and dry his wet pants, so I guess he’d be pretty effective at steam cleaning?
2. What did you think of the main characters?
Sunshine was an easy character for me to like and cheer for her successes. I too could have done with fewer pages about her baking obsession, but it did make her feel authentic to me. Baking had been practically her whole life up to the point of this story. Real people often ramble on about the things that are important to them and forget sometimes that the same things might bore another person to tears.
I was also very interested in Constantine. The sections of the book he was in were the ones I flew through the quickest. I had some brief confusion early in the book because Bo’s vampire underlings kept calling Constantine “Connie”, and we didn’t know his full name yet. At one point in those early parts, Sunshine said she couldn’t tell the difference between a male and female vampire, so I wondered if she’d gotten his gender wrong even if he was shirtless. I still kept thinking of him as a “he” though myself, and everything fell into proper alignment once he revealed his name.
Aside from Sunshine, most of the characters were interesting to me. They all felt like they had a much larger back story than what was revealed to us. Even though the main reason I decided to read this in print with the group was because it was a standalone, I was frustrated at the end by that same fact. I felt like the foundations had just been laid for a series that I probably would have enjoyed, with opportunities to learn more about all the characters and get more questions answered over the course of multiple books.
3. What did you think of the writing?
When it first started, I wasn’t sure I was going to like it. The writing seemed very disjointed, with awkward sentences that I sometimes had to read twice before I could understand their intent. I think that did work though to make Sunshine feel like a real person who was not a polished author but who was telling us her story as best she could. Once I got into the story, around the point where Sunshine was first captured by the vampires at the lake, my annoyances with the writing style started to fade. I did still occasionally get annoyed when she started rambling about minutiae though, or when she went on too long fretting over the same things.
4. What worked or didn't for you?
Aside from things I already mentioned above, the magic didn’t work very well for me. It started off in a way that appealed to me, seeming pretty logical when Sunshine was explaining how her grandmother had taught her and when she went over some of the rules. As the story continued though, I had to suspend my disbelief more and more. And the part about tracking a vampire by seeing an asynchronous network communication? That was obnoxious and stupid. I debated knocking off half a star for that part.
5. Overall thoughts?
I’m a little confused about why I enjoyed this as much as I did. Even as I was reading it, I was wondering why on earth I was enjoying it so much. I can come up with a list of complaints and nitpicks, but I can’t really explain in detail why I enjoyed it. I just did. I liked the characters, the story (mostly), and the setting, and I wanted more of it.
1. What did you think of the vampires? I kind of liked the concept of a prohibition against stories and movies about relationships with vamps, but maybe I'm just jaded after the last 15 years since Twilight... 2. What did you think of the main characters? I liked Sunny, she seemed strong in a natural way (rebellious teen, lived alone, etc) with a reasonable desire to want to suppress the negative stuff, though her denial seemed a little beyond given her actual history.
3-4. What did you think of the writing/what worked or didn't? Bit too much mental monologuing. I'd enjoy more on the other characters (Mel, Mom,...)
5. Overall thoughts? Lots of cinnamon rolls, chocolate, and baking discussed - surprisingly valuable addition for me & I did make a chocolate soufflé last night after about a 5 year hiatus. I blame this book.
Mod
Where do you fall on the great vampire divide?
I agree, Allison. I think alien is a really good word for Constance, and he does act with kindness, or perhaps, honor, to Sunshine. I think in this world vampires are so much more dangerous that the prohibitions make sense to me. Despite my weariness of the current trend towards romantic vampires, I would have enjoyed more stories by this author to broaden the world and explain his behavior, along with several other characters.
I wanted to find out more about Mel
Me too! What was with all the tattoo emphasis? He often seemed to be touching them during pivotal moments. And the sequence in the final conflict with Bo where she saw (?) him along with the were lady.
I gained five pounds reading this book.
It suggested that he was going to turn out to be a sorcerer.
My favorite part of this one were the similes. Some of them just landed so perfectly.
I wonder if the reason this book is enjoyable (for some, I guess) despite its flaws is that, in a very dangerous world, where a lot of things are unfair and life is kind of grey and harsh, the heroine has had hard or traumatic experiences in her past, and others seem to just be pretending all is well and that you can be safe just by keeping to the rules, - in this world, light things happen; there's baking, which is warming and comforting and happy; humour, which is a humanising thing (when used kindly/well); she meets an enemy who is more of a friend than those who are supposed to be on her side, and who consistently demonstrates care/love and honour. In the bleak reality, there are light and good things, as well as deeper good things.Although our world is not like this one, and there are many more good things going on, life is tough, sometimes bleak, there are people you can't trust, things you can't change, danger and fear, etc. But humour, the things we love like baking or knitting or reading or dancing, a few real and honourable friendships, and the hope or power that our special gifts give us to overcome some of the hard things: these make it liveable and okay.
Maybe that's part of the message, if any, of the story?
Just got hold of this book, and can't wait to start.
Mod
Tamara wrote: "I wonder if the reason this book is enjoyable (for some, I guess) despite its flaws is that, in a very dangerous world, where a lot of things are unfair and life is kind of grey and harsh, the hero..."I think that may be exactly the message!
I've finished part 1. I really like Sunshine, she has a great sense of humour. I was glad that the action took place near the beginning of the book. I so badly want to taste a cynamon roll, we don't have them in South Africa. :(
Finished part 2.Does anyone else find the lack of chapters a bit annoying? Without definite chapters the story sometimes feels like one long ramble. And in this part Sunshine does seem to ramble a lot and go off on some tangents. I did find how Constantine healed Sunshine from the poisoned cut quite interesting.
I didn't even notice it until people mentioned it
Kathryn wrote: "Finished part 2.Does anyone else find the lack of chapters a bit annoying? Without definite chapters the story sometimes feels like one long ramble.
Definitely one of my complaints. Would be better with chapters.
CBRetriever wrote: "Another one of those open ended books - seems like a series might have been planned or else a sequel"I have to agree. Every strand of the story leaves questions, and not in a good way. For me, this story works very well as an introduction to Sunshine's world and inhabitants, but the explanations the reader might expect later in the book never materialise. I appreciate that the story is written entirely from Sunshine's POV, so the reader discovers bits about the other characters as she progresses but we get to the end without being a great deal wiser about virtually every other character.
I also agree with Bonnie and Kathryn about the lack of chapters being annoying. I mentioned this in the first impressions feed and it didn't get get any better for me as I progressed through the book.
Despite these comments, I have given the book 4 stars as I would read a sequel had one been written. Would the grandmother reappear? What is Mel's/the Goddess'/Maud's/Mrs Bialosky's agendas? How does the hundred years to vampire victory progress?
I haven't read anything else by Robin McKinley (as yet), but a google search suggests that she has withdrawn from public view in recent years. Her latest blog entry I have found is dated August 2018 when she discusses returning to writing.
I enjoyed this book and will seek out other books by this author.
This book really felt like the first in a series to me. I wonder if that was an abandoned intention, because if not, there are so many things that could have been improved up, such as the loose ends and world introduction.
I read an article where the author said that she had written a sequel, but the publishing company refused to publish it. I have a feeling that this book was published in a bit of a no man's time. It was too late to catch the Interview With a Vampire crowd and too early to benefit from the Twilight craze. So, maybe when this book first came out it wasn't very popular, and the publisher just decided to can the sequel.
Kathryn wrote: "I've finished part 1. I really like Sunshine, she has a great sense of humour. I was glad that the action took place near the beginning of the book. I so badly want to taste a cynamon roll, we don'..."Kathryn, here are some recipes to consider:
http://minimalistbaker.com/the-worlds...
http://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/2013...
https://www.maangchi.com/recipe/cinna...
https://blog.kitchenwarehouse.com.au/...
Unless you like really sweet things (sickeningly sweet), don't do the glaze/sweet sauce that some recipes recommend. I think cinnamon scrolls are much better without it.
@TamaraOo, thank you so much. I'll definitely get my Mom to try some of these--I'm a horrible cook myself. :D
I just finished this book and just wanted to pop in and read your thoughts before writing a review. I LOVED this book because I think it took some risks. No chapters? Weird, but not having those breaks made me feel like I was really in Sunshine's head. I'm not a young 20 something anymore, but I was once upon a time. Her inner dialogue was EXACTLY how I thought back in the day, a constant chatter of my brain commenting on all the things---important, mundane, and in-between. I was so sad to reach the end only to realize this is the first book in a planned series that never happened. That is really unfortunate. I have so many questions, many of which were listed above (the tattoos, the Grandmother, is Dad still out there, WHAT exactly is Sunshine?) Anyways, if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. This was my first attempt at reading more fiction as I wean myself off the
Ivy wrote: "No chapters? Weird, but not having those breaks made me feel like I was really in Sunshine's head. I'm not a young 20 something anymore, but I was once upon a time. Her inner dialogue was EXACTLY how I thought back in the day, a constant chatter of my brain commenting on all the things---important, mundane, and in-between..."That is an interesting point, I hadn't thought of it in that light. I did feel like I was in her head, and now that it's been a few weeks since I finished, I find myself thinking fondly of Sunshine. Her house with that lady who made wards and liked baked goods, her librarian friend, tattooed chef boyfriend with the motorcycle, popcorn on Monday movie night, life at the coffeehouse. I liked her.
@IvyThe problem is that the publishing company probably owns the IP. So McKinley would have to wait until it is in the public domain before she could self publish, which is really sad.
there are ways to get one's right back to a book, but that's only if it's not being sold or published. And it takes several years for that to happen
McKinley still owns the IP, it was not a Work For Hire.The thing is that she licensed the rights.
Her ability to get them back entirely turns on the details of her contract.
@MaryOh no, I can see how that can be a big problem.
Okay I finished the book, and it is so obvious it was meant to be part of a series. As others have mentioned there are so many loose ends. The lack of chapters did bother me, but I understand the reason the author did that.
I have a problem with that we have absolutely no idea what Sunshine looks like. I know it is a first person, but ways could have been found to describe her to us.
I enjoyed the other characters, especially the land lady and Constantine of course.
I thought the big fight seen at the end was a bit rushed and lacked some more detail.
Otherwise, except for making me hungry, this was a solid book.
Kathryn wrote: "Okay I finished the book, and it is so obvious it was meant to be part of a series. As others have mentioned there are so many loose ends. The lack of chapters did bother me, but I understand the ..."
I actually love when an author gives us no (or very little) physical attributes. I tend to "cast" in my head as I read, and this leaves room for a lot of possibilities.
@KandiceI get where you are coming from. I just prefer to have a definite description so I know what the author was seeing when creating their characters.
hmmm she does sayMy hair actually looks a bit better if it doesn’t get combed too often, so I tried to pull my fingers through it the way I would have if I were in front of the mirror at home.
that's all I could find and as she was always soaking up the sun i pictured Sunshine as being tanned
Kandice wrote: I actually love when an author gives us no (or very little) physical attributes. I tend to "cast" in my head as I read, and this leaves room for a lot of possibilities.I tend to agree with Kandice on this. I think we all put our own personal interpretations on print characters appearances anyway (if the book isn't illustrated obviously).
I'm a bit late to the discussion, just finished the book. For me it was both too much and too little: the author creates a world filled to the brim with everyday ubiquitous magic with roughly our current technological level so that one can expect that magic is recent, but we got nothing on how it appeared. "listening" to the protagonist's thoughts was well-done, even if I'd prefer less broad but deeper knowledge.
1. What did you think of the vampires?
2. What did you think of the main characters?
3. What did you think of the writing?
4. What worked or didn't for you?
5. Overall thoughts?
Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions