Ioana's 2022 Independent Challenge

[Bill, Moderator]

Ioana wrote: "Bill wrote: "I think it depends what you want from King; downright horror or something more."

Interesting question, Bill. Definitely not downright horror, just a good story that moves, with intere..."

I've read 20+ but not so many of his newest books. The Stand, The Green Mile, Christine, The Dead Zone, Misery, all favorites of mine... He has such variety in his work. I also like his ability to tell short stories, not always perfect but he has written some excellent ones.

[Ioana]

Bill wrote: "I've read 20+ but not so many of his newest books. The Stand, The Green Mile, Christine, The Dead Zone, Misery, all favorites of mine... He has such variety in his work. I also like his ability to tell short stories, not always perfect but he has written some excellent ones."

Both you and Lea liked Misery, I need to read that. Also, I haven't read Christine yet...I have work to do. Yes, I love his variety, I like that he doesn't use a formula and that you never know what to expect. He's a great story teller.

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

I had to open the cupboard where the Stephen King books live earlier, another one I own that I struggled with was The Tommyknockers.

[Ioana]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "I had to open the cupboard where the Stephen King books live earlier, another one I own that I struggled with was The Tommyknockers."

Not on my TBR, and unless someone here says that I should change that, I'm fine with that. I'm definitely in no competition to read all his books 🤣

[Alondra, Moderator Schmoderator]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "I had to open the cupboard where the Stephen King books live earlier, another one I own that I struggled with was The Tommyknockers."

The Tommyknockers was just okay for me. A 3-Star read, I think. I know for many, it was the best thing since sliced bread; so what do I know?? LOL

[Ioana]

Alondra wrote: "The Tommyknockers was just okay for me. A 3-Star read, I think. I know for many, it was the best thing since sliced bread; so what do I know?? LOL"

Of course, we all love different books in different ways, and that's what makes this such a great group.

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

I've just had a quick glance to see how many I've read and realised that I need to get hold of Under The Dome, as I've never read it, although have watched the TV series.

[Ioana]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "I've just had a quick glance to see how many I've read and realised that I need to get hold of Under The Dome, as I've never read it, although have watched the TV series."

That's in the "great" category for me...even though I was not happy with the ending. I don't know what a good ending would've been, but that was not it. Still, a very good read.

[Lea]

Ioana wrote: "Both you and Lea liked Misery, I need to read that. Also, I haven't read Christine yet...I have work to do. Yes, I love his variety, I like that he doesn't use a formula and that you never know what to expect. He's a great story teller."

I haven't read Christine yet either. Maybe next year. It's on my list with Carrie, Pet Sematary, and The Green Mile, which I will get to, but not this year. If we are both in the mood at the same time for Christine, we can try to read it together, but definitely don't wait for me. :-)

As for Misery, I blame enthusiastically thank Alissa and Alondra for that one. I had no intention of reading it, but I'm quite glad that I did. It's clever. I still haven't seen the movie.

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

Lea wrote: "Ioana wrote: "Both you and Lea liked Misery, I need to read that. Also, I haven't read Christine yet...I have work to do. Yes, I love his variety, I like that he doesn't use a formula and that you ..."

Oh, you have some good King books there, Carrie was the first books I borrowed when the library allowed me to check out adult books, I had to hide the cover from my younger sister though

[Ioana]

Lea wrote: "I haven't read Christine yet either. Maybe next year. It's on my list with Carrie, Pet Sematary, and The Green Mile, which I will get to, but not this year. If we are both in the mood at the same time for Christine, we can try to read it together, but definitely don't wait for me. :-)"

I loved the Green Mile.
As you very well know, I don't plan what to read, so if/when you're ready for Christine, just let me know. I don't have it, so no danger to get to it by accident.

[Ioana]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "Carrie was the first books I borrowed when the library allowed me to check out adult books, I had to hide the cover from my younger sister though "

That book cover is scary! I don't think I'd pick that book based on it...actually, I'm sure I would not🤣

[Alondra, Moderator Schmoderator]

Ioana wrote: "Of course, we all love different books in different ways, and that's what makes this such a great group..."

Facts!

[Alondra, Moderator Schmoderator]

Lea wrote: "Ioana wrote: "Both you and Lea liked Misery, I need to read that. Also, I haven't read Christine yet...I have work to do. Yes, I love his variety, I like that he doesn't use a formula and that you ..."

Based off those 4 books; The Green Mile should be first, then Carrie, Pet Semetary and lastly, Christine. Just my opinion, of course

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

Ioana wrote: "Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "Carrie was the first books I borrowed when the library allowed me to check out adult books, I had to hide the cover from my younger sister though "

That book cover is..."

Oh, that might not have been the cover my 15 year old self chose, however it is the one that is on my bookshelf upstairs, so I was drawn to it at some age!

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

Alondra wrote: "Lea wrote: "Ioana wrote: "Both you and Lea liked Misery, I need to read that. Also, I haven't read Christine yet...I have work to do. Yes, I love his variety, I like that he doesn't use a formula a..."

Yes, completely agree with that order

[Lea]

Alondra wrote: "Based off those 4 books; The Green Mile should be first, then Carrie, Pet Semetary and lastly, Christine. Just my opinion, of course"

You and Desley have agreed on the order, and Ioana loves The Green Mile. It is now first and I'm moving everything else around. :-) Thank you all!

[Desley (Cat fosterer)]

I really hope you enjoy it now! Assume you haven't seen the film?

[Alondra, Moderator Schmoderator]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "Yes, completely agree with that order.."

💪💪😏

[Alondra, Moderator Schmoderator]

Lea wrote: "Alondra wrote: "Based off those 4 books; The Green Mile should be first, then Carrie, Pet Semetary and lastly, Christine. Just my opinion, of course"

You and Desley have agreed on the order, and I..."

😂😂

[Lea]

Desley (Cat fosterer) wrote: "I really hope you enjoy it now! Assume you haven't seen the film?"

I have seen the film, which is why I've been hesitant to read the book...but fortunately, I saw it in the theatre, so it has been well over twenty years. Some scenes stay with me, though, there were some intense moments. I normally like to read the book first and then watch the film, but in 1999, I was pretty sure it was safe. After all, I'd never read a Stephen King book. Hahahahaha! :-) :-) :-)

[Ioana]

Lea wrote: "I normally like to read the book first and then watch the film, but in 1999, I was pretty sure it was safe. After all, I'd never read a Stephen King book. Hahahahaha! :-) :-) :-)"

LOL, so I'm not the only one who started on him late in life...I joined GR in 2009, and it probably took Alondra a few years to convince me. I'll have to check my spreadsheet when I get home tomight.
I hope you'll like The Green Mile.

[Ioana]

Book #25 of 2022: The Escape Artist. New author, new series, really enjoyable (although the ending was a little bit too much). But for me, any book narrated by Scott Brick is enjoyable. I hope he'll do the next one, too.

[Ioana]

Book #26 of 2022: Klara and the Sun. 2.5 stars because the beginning was promising. Sadly, it stopped being interesting (for me) around the middle of the book.

[Lea]

Ioana wrote: "Book #26 of 2022: Klara and the Sun. 2.5 stars because the beginning was promising. Sadly, it stopped being interesting (for me) around the middle of the book."

I'm interested in knowing if, after reading the book, you think (view spoiler)[ Josie was replicated or not. I do think Josie was replicated and that Klara is a unreliable narrator, because she was fooled. (hide spoiler)]

This didn't occur to some of my friends who read the book, so I'll try and explain the clues and why I think it happened this way. If it is too long and you aren't interested in reading on, please don't read it, it won't hurt my feelings. :-) And of course, it doesn't mean it couldn't have happened another way, each view point is equally valid. Ishiguro is always keeping something back, that's why I like him as an author. But, I think the book seems more clever this way...

(view spoiler)[I think it happened during the six days of arguments between Josie's mother and Dr. Ryan as to whether Josie needed to go to the hospital or not. It seems strange that Josie gets immediately well upon being touched by the sun. Klara is solar powered, the replaced Josie is also solar powered. New Josie was infused with all of Klara's knowledge of Old Josie through her data dump in taking the "survey."

The replacement Josie is so good that Klara is fooled. Klara doesn't even realize that by filling out the survey, she is essentially downloading her entire knowledge of Josie. Klara doesn't notice a difference in new Josie, but those who love Josie do. Melania Housekeeper, who warned Klara about Dr. Capaldi, tries to stop the sun activating New Josie and she is swiftly replaced, maybe to keep her from voicing her suspicions? Father only stops by one time in the six years following. But Capaldi continues to come around, no reason to except that his "Portrait" is now operational. When Capaldi tells Mother that there is no need for her to be mad at him all the time, I think it is because, after all she went through to create a continuation of Josie, Mother cannot connect with the new Josie, and is angry that she wasted her time and money to create something she cannot love. New Josie treats Klara differently too, But Rick's reaction is perhaps the most telling - saying that he will always keep searching for someone just like Josie, at least the Josie he once knew.

The book begs the question, "What does it mean to be human?" Klara is in some ways better than us humans. She is loyal, she is kind. Still she has flaws, and she has faith, which typically seem to be human characteristics. On the other hand, Klara is different than the humans, and she is not loved. New Josie is also different than the humans, despite how close she is to the original, she is unable to be loved. (hide spoiler)]

[Ioana]

Lea,
I tried to be brief, but there's too much to say about this.
(view spoiler)[ Before even trying to understand the subtexts, there were things that bother me about Klara (which I liked). She is very smart, she understands emotions, she knows a lot of things (she would be able to tutor Rick), she has feelings (she’s loyal and kind) but she doesn’t know/understand that humans are not solar powered? That the sun doesn’t sleep in a barn? That pollution comes from many sources? And, she’s inconsistent about speaking with the other person in 2nd and 3rd person. That drove me nuts!!!

I did not think Josie was replaced, but….yes, it’s possible. I think humans feel generally better when sun is out and/or when they are outside in the sun. So just because Josie got better after being exposed to the sun didn’t really mean (to me) that she was replaced with a solar-powered version.

But, such a version would explain the “portrait” and the “survey”, otherwise these things would be just things/ideas leading to nothing. It would also explain why Melania was replaced; she cared about Josie and would notice differences. And would explain Mother’s later reaction.

But, if she’s solar powered, she doesn’t need to eat (Klara doesn’t), how come nobody notices this?

But….these replicas/replacements would need to be very good, to fool everybody else, and there is nothing in that world to suggest they have that technology. They have AFs, they have bereavement dolls, but none of these can fool anybody. Everybody knows these are not human. Is this new Josie-replica only a Dr. Capaldi experiment? Could be… Klara is very observant, wouldn’t she notice? Maybe that’s why she ends up in the yard?

I don’t know, too many questions, too many things left unsaid, unexplained… (hide spoiler)]

[Lea]

I know what you mean, Ioana. It seems like the book is good for discussion, if nothing else. I think Margaret Atwood puts it this way, “a Kazuo Ishiguro novel is never about what it pretends to be about.” And we're stuck trying to figure it all out, that's a trademark of his writing that can be super annoying too. So, of course, I'm not trying to persuade you to like the book or see it a different way. I do have my thoughts as to some of the questions you raised, please let me know if you are interested. If you want to just put this book behind you and move on, I totally understand and I'm not offended. Either way. :-)

[Ioana]

I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this (and any other book, as a matter of fact). I might like it better if there was a theory that explains all the facts, and all the "what he said, what she said". But for now, I can't find one and I'm just frustrated.

[Lea]

Ioana wrote: "I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this (and any other book, as a matter of fact). I might like it better if there was a theory that explains all the facts, and all the "what he said, what she said". But for now, I can't find one and I'm just frustrated."

I don't think we're going to find anything by the author that tells us exactly what happened. He likes to keep things open ended.

There's a Goodreads question that I found after I read the book that kind of helped me piece together some of my thoughts.

https://www.goodreads.com/questions/2...

(view spoiler)[ 1. When we ask ourselves what are the traits that make human being unique, one of the things that researchers often talk about art and faith and understanding what others believe. Klara's belief in the sun is the author playing with the idea that the Artificial Friend can have faith. I agree that it is frustrating what Klara can understand versus not understand. Sometimes she seems to understand some very advanced concepts, other times she fails to understand something obvious.

2. Klara tends to think in the 1st person, but she speaks in the 3rd person. It's possible that there were other inconsistencies, but I think that's what the other was trying to do?

3. Maybe I've been reading too many Asimov books at the same time, and in those, the eating is explained as the robots can eat but need to remove the food waste afterwards. I also read a book a long time ago where the robot was solar powered and the sun digested the food. So, this was plausible to me, but it makes sense to be a question mark. It wasn't explained.

4. I think Josie's Portrait is a Dr. Capaldi only experiment. But I also think others experimented and the results seem to indicate that a person cannot be replaced.

5. I think Klara doesn't notice because she isn't human and she isn't able to detect the differences. Klara admits that she misses a lot of things because she isn't human. I think she ends up in the yard because her relationship with Josie changes after Josie has been replaced. We always knew Josie would outgrow Klara, but new Josie moves on immediately, she has no relationship with Klara and the survey didn't include/didn't care about Josie's relationship with Klara. (hide spoiler)]

I can definitely write more and have a few questions of my own, but I'll take a break here and see what you think.

[Ioana]

I did not think to go through the questions, good point. I think I want to read them, the answers and discussions and I'll come back to this.
I'm disappointed and frustrated that there is no clear explanation, no theory to glue together all the facts. Some might find this a sign of a good book/author, but to me it feels like a gratuitous way to try to look smart, important.
Maybe that's why I don't like modern art, I just don't get it, I need things explained to me, and this book did not that.

Maybe I should read some Asimov?

[〰️Beth〰️]

I have Klara and the sun as a group read this month. Didn’t read the spoilers but am curious enough to bump this up to reading this weekend instead of next.

[Ioana]

〰️Beth〰️ wrote: "I have Klara and the sun as a group read this month. Didn’t read the spoilers but am curious enough to bump this up to reading this weekend instead of next."

Heresy, I know, but...in this case, I don't think that reading the spoilers would necessarily be a bad thing. Maybe you'd be aware of things to pay attention to???
I feel like I need to read this again, maybe I've missed things that would've explained the book? But I know I won't do that.
I'll be very curious to hear your thoughts after reading it.

[Lea]

〰️Beth〰️ wrote: "I have Klara and the sun as a group read this month. Didn’t read the spoilers but am curious enough to bump this up to reading this weekend instead of next."

Beth, I'm not sure what to recommend. Ioana has a point about going into the book being aware of some things. I read the book without the spoilers and I too felt like I needed to read it again to add up the clues, but I really don't want to. I'm comfortable with what I think happened and the ambiguity of the ending. However, my experience was different from Ioana's, probably because of what I expected.

Here are three things I had in my head while I was reading the book and they may help?

1. Ishiguro's books are never what they pretend to be about.
2. Ishiguro is an author that "shows," he never "tells." Two people can read the book and come up with two different equally valid endings. It makes for great discussion, but can be frustrating when you want to know literally what happened.
3. As you read, consider the possibility that Klara is an unreliable narrator and does not see the full picture. Normally, I'd put that under a spoiler tag, but I think here, for this specific book, it will only help anyone who hasn't yet read the book.

[Lea]

Ioana wrote: "I did not think to go through the questions, good point. I think I want to read them, the answers and discussions and I'll come back to this.
I'm disappointed and frustrated that there is no clear explanation, no theory to glue together all the facts. Some might find this a sign of a good book/author, but to me it feels like a gratuitous way to try to look smart, important.
Maybe that's why I don't like modern art, I just don't get it, I need things explained to me, and this book did not that.

Maybe I should read some Asimov?"

Ishiguro's writing style isn't for everyone. I typically like authors who "show" rather than "tell", but I have to say that even I would have liked a little less ambiguity in the ending. It is frustrating and your analogy to modern art is a good one. Sometimes books speak to us and sometimes they don't. Sometimes art speaks to us and sometimes it doesn't.

I'm not sure what you will think about Asimov, as Sci Fi / Fantasy isn't your go-to genre. My recommendation: take a break from robots for a month or two and then see what you think about I, Robot. Unless you are not over reading about robots at the moment - I found reading Asimov and Klara back to back was a whole lot of robots. I, Robot is short stories about robots, but they read smoothly and easily and are a little bit funny. The audiobook that my library had was pretty good. It's nothing like the movie, I've been told! If you like it, from there you can go straight to the robot detective series. I think you might like those, but I think you need the background of I, Robot before you can go anywhere else. See what you're in the mood for. :-)

[Ioana]

I'll definitely consider Asimov at some point, his I, Robot is on my TBR. I actually enjoy sci-fi, but fantasy...only some.
Ishiguro is definitely not my favorite author, but I still want to read his The Remains of the Day.

[Lillie]

I’ve been hesitating about reading Klara and the Sun and after reading everyone’s opinion here (including spoilers) I’m still lost. I think I’ll leave it at the bottom of book pile for now 😬

[Ioana]

No, Lillie, that was not my intent! It didn't click with me, but as we all know, books talk to us differently. It's not a bad book, at it was probably not the right time for me to read it, and it you don't mind not getting all the answers in the end, you'll probably enjoy it.
I expected a theory to explain all the events in the book. Maybe such a theory exists, but you'd have to build it yourself, then it can be anything you want it to be. I did not feel like putting in all that work...
I hope you'll read it eventually.

[Michelle]

Ok I have to weigh in. I thought the ambiguity was on purpose and maybe was sort of the main point to the story. Don't ask me what that point was exactly. Either way in this case I was OK with not knowing. The entire book told from the Klara's POV was a little like that. The reader did not know for certain what Klara saw, only how she interpreted it. She was an unreliable narrator. I can accept that.

[Lillie]

I have so many other books that I’m dying to read, so hearing different opinions has helped me make the decision to leave it till later. That’s the wonderful thing about this group, reading the diverse opinions which might lead to rearranging my tbr pile :)

[Ioana]

Sounds fair, I rearrange my pile based on opinions here, too. Well, enjoy whatever you're reading! And come back and tell us about it 😉

[Lea]

To me, the point of Klara and the Sun was to provoke us into thinking what it meant to be human. In that book, we have robots who are flawed, who make mistakes, who are kind, who have faith, who are able to learn, etc. We also see humans that are sneaky, who care about status, who take advantage of one another, but also human who are flawed, make mistakes, are kind, have faith, and are able to learn. Klara's model of robot in this book really isn't so different from us after all, and may in fact be better, since they don't seem to be sneaky or take advantage of others, although that seems to be a future issue in the following model of robot.

Because the book gave me a lot of thoughts about that topic, and I like puzzles, and I can tolerate a little ambiguity in endings (possibly because I am one of those people who is arrogant enough to think I could end some books better than the authors...), I liked the book. But, I certainly understand why my opinion is not a universal opinion on this book. :-)

[Lea]

Ioana wrote: "I'll definitely consider Asimov at some point, his I, Robot is on my TBR. I actually enjoy sci-fi, but fantasy...only some.
Ishiguro is definitely not my favorite author, but I still want to read his The Remains of the Day."

There's a hidden message in that book too, but I thought it was easier to decipher. :-)

[Michelle]

Lea wrote: "To me, the point of Klara and the Sun was to provoke us into thinking what it meant to be human. In that book, we have robots who are flawed, who make mistakes, who are kind, who ha..."

So interesting. I agree with your analysis but for me the point of the book was to make us think about humans and their relationship to technology. We rely more and more upon technology even sacrificing our humanity to it in some ways, and yet technology can never replace a child or a friend. The humans in the story surrounded themselves with technology and isolated themselves from other humans. In Klara technology actually demonstrated more humanity than the humans. I felt that the ending granted a measure of grace to Klara, who had actually evolved to a level that some of the humans in the story had not.

I don't think there was any one thing we were supposed to "get" out of this one. Like you said Lea, it was to make us think. A good book is one that makes you think about it and talk about it.

[Ioana]

I agree, a good book for discussion, and probably I should've reacted differently if I knew what to expect. Yes, I know, I know, Kazuo Ishiguro ... but was still surprised.

[Ioana]

Book #27 of 2022: The Dark Hours. When in doubt, go back to Harry Bosch...so this is what I did and enjoyed it. This is part of the spin-off Renée Ballard series, and I like the interaction between the 2 of them. 4 stars.

Book #28 of 2022: Blowout: Corrupted Democracy, Rogue State Russia, and the Richest, Most Destructive Industry on Earth. This book can be summarized in a few words: oil, money, greed, corruption. At all levels, everywhere. It is a frightening read, with lots of details connecting thousand of dots, and it shows how we got here. Some people really understood Putin and his game, too bad nobody listened. Or if they did, they did not have the power to do anything about it.
The book was published in 2019, but if one had their eyes open, the current events were easy to see coming. 4.5*

[Lillie]

Ok, I know this a weird question but is the Harry Bosch series in any way similar to the Harry Hole series? Or is it more violent? I love the Harry Hole books but I've read the last book the author has written (am selfishly hoping for more) and would love another series in a similar vein.

As for Blowout, it sounds like a book that needs to be read. Will definitely add it to my tbr.

[Ioana]

Lillie wrote: "Ok, I know this a weird question but is the Harry Bosch series in any way similar to the Harry Hole series? Or is it more violent? I love the Harry Hole books but I've read the last book the author..."

Honestly, I don't know, I haven't read the Harry Hole books.
https://smithereens.wordpress.com/200...
I don't find Bosch more violent than any other cop/detective, but he's smart and has issues, which makes for an interesting combination of personal and work aspects. Give him a try. I'd like to know what you think, will I like Hole if I like Bosch?

[Lillie]

Ioana wrote: "Honestly, I don't know, I haven't read the Harry Hole books.
https://smithereens.wordpress.com/200...
I don't find Bosch more violent than any other cop/detective, but he's smart and has issues, which makes for an interesting combination of personal and work aspects. Give him a try. I'd like to know what you think, will I like Hole if I like Bosch"

Oh! Thanks for that link. Looked up Harry Bosch and there are 23 books to the series plus some short stories. Really looking like I need to dip my toes in those waters.

[Ioana]

Lillie wrote: "Looked up Harry Bosch and there are 23 books to the series plus some short stories. "

Well, there is an entire Bosch universe...
https://www.goodreads.com/series/2127...

[Lillie]

Holy cow! I must’ve seen a different list. Maybe that can be my project for next year.

My only tip for when you start reading the Harry Hole books is to start with #3 The Redbreast. That, I believe was the first one translated into English. Think that was a good call. I read the first 2 after having read most of the series and I know I would’ve bailed on the whole series if I’d started with the first ones. They’re very different from the rest.