Ersatz TLS discussion

note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
63 views
Weekly TLS > What are we reading? 9th November 2021

Comments Showing 1-50 of 296 (296 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1 3 4 5 6

message 1: by [deleted user] (last edited Nov 09, 2021 10:42AM) (new)

Hello, everyone. Welcome to this fortnight's thread.

Not much actual book reading going on chez Anne. I'm still roaming around Bronze Age Greece - cobbled together from a variety of sources that aren't books - and I'm starting to feel a proper sense of the deep time that sits at the back of The Iliad. Very pleasing. I had to get on with real world tasks and deadlines after that, so I naturally procrastinated by noticing Kindle Unlimited is free for a month and took the opportunity to clear a couple of books from the tbr. (This is very niche stuff so please skip this and join me again in the next paragraph.) The last two Susan books by Jane Shaw (children's books) and Furrowed Middlebrow author Elizabeth Fair's A Winter Away. I also conclusively established that Furrowed Middlebrow writer DE Stevenson is not for me ...

Good to see the usual wide-ranging conversations on the thread. There are more tips and reviews than I can do justice to, but do please keep the contributions coming. They are much appreciated by all the readers of this thread, and my heartfelt apologies that I can't acknowledge each and every one of your contributions.

@Slawkenbergius has made good on his promise to read Anna Karenina (he has been reading the Rosamund Bartlett translation):
Anna Karenina is a rich novel, I mean a really RICH novel -- and I'm not saying that because of its 800+ page length. It encompasses a variety of themes and touches many different subjects other than the Bovariesque story of passion and infidelity which is most famous for. And even plotwise, alongside the tragic relationship between Anna and Vronsky unravels a more interesting storyline that focuses on the book's second couple, Kitty and Levin (Tolstoy's alter ego), which serves as a counterweight to the central plot. So besides the role of marriage and extra-conjugal affairs in nineenth-century Russia, the weight of social convention, love, jealousy and remorse, the novel also develops subjects like the struggle between the recent European innovations and the values of century-old Eurasian traditions; the political economy of Russian rural landscape and agrarian activities; countryside living versus urban life; the impact of modern social reforms; filial love, uxorial feelings and marital behaviour; how to raise and educate children; war and peace (or non-violent creeds); the many facets of Russian identity and the divisive pan-Slavic trends; art, architecture and music; the place of religion and personal spiritual quest; piety, goodness and altruistic sentiment; hypocrisy, ambition, self-fulfilment and atonement ...
... although there are many things happening the reader doesn't get lost. In fact, that's one of Tolstoy's main literary accomplishments: the different sub-plots are interwoven in such a flawless way they all feel natural and unaffected. The narrative flows effortlessly – each of the eight parts is composed of many untitled short chapters, and every three or four chapters the focus shifts to a different character without provoking any discomfort and uneasiness in the mind of the reader.

As an aside, I recently saw this when James Daunt was asked what his favourite book is:
Anna Karenina . I’m a bit sentimental, so never quite finish it and then I can read it again.

@Georg wants to tell us about a great German novel which she thinks (correctly) that we may be unaware of:
The German Lesson by Siegfried Lenz
On a windy day in April 1943 a man on a bike, his son behind him on the rack, makes his way along the dyke to the outlying farmhouse where the man who is referred to by everybody as "the painter" lives and works. Jens Ole Jepsen, the policeman, and Max Nansen, the painter, have been friends for a long time. They grew up in the same place, when Jens was nine Nansen, eight years older, saved him from drowning.This time, Jens is on official duty however: to deliver a letter from Berlin.
Ten years later. A reform institution for young offenders. The German lesson.Write an essay on "The Joys of Duty". Siggi Jepsen, 20, thinks about his father. Overwhelmed by his memories he doesn't know where to start. He hands in a blank notebook. The punishment for this perceived disobedience: solitary confinement until he has delivered.He starts to write. Filling notebook after notebook. The punishment soon turns into something different altogether.

This novel is, first and foremost, a "Bildungsroman" in the classic tradition. The first and the last chapter feature its "hero", Siggi Jepsen. Alpha and omega."The German Lesson" (the real one) marks a turning point for him. He has always been an object. Now he becomes the author of his own life, a subject. So my take on the title would go against the metaphorical grain.

This book first hooked me with its beautiful prose. Then it pulled me in with the story. Some days later I am still examining the intricate construction of the net Lenz wove so expertly to catch his readers.

@Robert is enjoying a graphic novel, Jason Lutes's Berlin trilogy:
The story begins with a brief 1918 section, immediately after Germany's defeat in the First World War, but most of the action is set in the late 1920s and the early Depression years. Journalist Kurt and his lover Margarethe, are continuing characters; so is Kurt's too-young-for-him girlfriend, artist Marthe Muller.
I was introduced to his work by the middle section, Berlin: City of Smoke, which I think has the best writing. It presents a Berlin with an energetic club and artistic life, overlaid by deep class and political divides. Kurt and Marthe move between these layers. Much of the story is, oddly enough, a proletarian novel about the early Depression, told in graphic novel form. Lutes lays out different threads, in episodes usually about 3-5 pages long. Another of those books where I keep re-reading sequences.

Should you read Don Quixote? I think @Russell would nod his head fervently. It's been a pleasure to read his account of reading the novel and hard to choose any single extract. Here's his note on choosing a translation:
The translation I am reading is the current Penguin version by John Rutherford. I have looked at several others (Motteux, Shelton, Smollett, and Cohen, which last was the previous Penguin version). The Motteux in particular has the advantage of a vibrant Jacobean vocabulary and a hundred or more brilliant illustrations by Doré, but it is said to depart rather too freely from the original, and in this Victorian edition has been bowdlerised. The Rutherford seems to me a perfect balance - dignified grandiloquence from the tall and lanky knight, a kind of cockneyfied chatter from his short and tubby squire (already in my mind’s eye played by, who else, Bob Hoskins, on a donkey, before I found he actually was Sancho Panza in a movie made for TV), and acting as a counterpoint a mostly normal but still humour-laden 1990s speech from a swath of other characters, all of this interplay carried off with a sparkling sense of merriment and mockery that is a pleasure to read. Which is not to say that there are no passages of sorrow and travail, for what is a romance without tears? Along the way there are several excellent jokes which tell us that this translator has the magic touch.

For something more contemporary, @Machenbach and @LlJones both recommend Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason:
… I really enjoyed it - it's consistently witty and has some depth to it, 'though I did have an issue with one aspect of it. [MB]
I really enjoyed it too. Sat up within just the first few pages and said "I like this voice!" Yes to the wit and the depth; also the nuanced sensitivity. I'll be watching for more from Mason. [Ll]

Not everything is rosy. @Hushpuppy has heard that @CCCubbon is making a present of Let the Right One In to her granddaughter (CC's that would be, not HP's) and has some belated advice, which I think could be summed up roughly as, don't do it :
I've fucking hated this. Had to speed read the second half and have a shower when I was done. Not that it's not a good story (although I definitely could have done without the overt paedophilia), but it is so drab and dreary, when not downright horrifying. And no, I am not talking of the horror part of the story, but of the life that happens in between for these Swedish people in 1981, in a soulless Stockholm suburb. Pathetic alcoholics, pathetic bullied kid, pathetic paedophile, pathetic parents, pathetic vampire kid, pathetic glue-sniffing teens... Drab, relentlessly so.

Too late. CC's granddaughter is back at uni, has dyed her hair pink, been given the book and, in the absence of any complaints from her young relative, CC is not regretting her gift. CC is now shopping for a pink brooch to match the hair. Maybe Hushpuppy can help with that.

Lovely to see @FranHunney here again:
Watching the Agatha Christie Marple-series on a German channel (and bought the DVD set for those films I missed). Quite like them. Wednesday's film was The Mirror Crack'd From Side To Side.

And another ersatz crime favourite is occupying @Gpfr:
Field Grey by Philip Kerr. In 1954, Bernie Gunther is in Cuba and is about to leave Cuba for Haiti as is, incidentally, a fiftyish English novelist, Señor Greene. However, Gunther's boat is stopped by a US Navy patrol boat and he is taken to Guantanamo. The story goes back and forth between 1954 and his experiences during and just after the war, including in France and the USSR. I got a little confused from time to time, but as always this is a gripping read.

A strong recommendation from @AB76:
Just finished To the Islands [by Randolph Stow], wow, possibly the best read of 2021 for me ...
...[the] theme [is] of an ageing bitter clergyman ... coming to terms with old age, a loss of faith and bitter loss in their past life.
Stow conjures a novel that is partly a paean to the glory of the outback, the flora and fauna of Northern Australia and also a study of the Aboriginal people living on the boundaries of mission houses and outposts, via the figure of Stephen Heriot, an Anglican minister in the mission.

Stow didnt put a foot wrong for 220 pages, all the more remarkable as he was only 23 when he wrote it.

And finally, @MK has some advice for Mach with regard to his ongoing book storage problem:
If you are like me, you may have closet space. I have given those clothes I knew in my heart that I would never wear again to charity. This has freed up CLOSET space. I now have 2 bookcases in a closet and am in the process of keeping the small collections together.

We are all waiting to hear the response from Mach's wife.

Finally, finally, question of the week is asked by @scarletnoir:
Does the introduction add anything ...? My current book by Barbara Pym has an intro. by John Bayley, which I have not read, and quite possibly won't. Are intros. for people who can't make up their own minds, or who need encouragement? Given my rather contrary nature, if an intro. claims that a book is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I immediately take against it...

I don't mind introductions by those with some expertise on the subject, a different person from the author, but one of my pet peeves is introductions by the writer of the actual book. If they're not competent enough to include it in the actual text, then please don't annoy me with a chunk of writing before I can start the flipping book.

Where do you stand on introductions?


message 2: by Reen (last edited Nov 09, 2021 10:35AM) (new)

Reen | 257 comments Hello all

I seem impudently full of welcome for myself at the beginning of this new thread having been only a very occasional visitor of late. Nonetheless. delighted with myself for actually finishing a book, I felt moved to share a short review.

(Clears throat...)

If you want to have the satisfaction of finishing a book on an autumn day, look no further than Claire Keegan’s latest, Small Things Like These, itself a small thing but magnificent and munificent with it. I don’t think a novella has had a similar effect on me in its evocation of place and feeling since Joyce’s The Dead. That’s big talk I know but this book is perfection, not a word wasted. You’ll read it in a couple of hours, less. I read it in bed over two nights, not even a troupe of Chippendales could have dragged me away from it.

Set in an Irish town on the east coast, in 1985, it tells the story of Bill Furlong and his family. In its relatively few pages it ties together all the universal themes and touches the underbelly of one of Ireland’s greatest shames. I was 15 in the year in which it’s set, and can remember some of the societal gloom it charts (and also wanting new jeans for Christmas). There are some references I’d say are uniquely Irish and brilliantly observed but none that prevent the book travelling. It’s a very recognisable story, ordinary and heroic. I hope you’ll enjoy it.

Foster, by the same author, is also worth a read.

I’ve moved on to another slim volume by an Irish author, Colum McCann’s Everything in This Country Must. Apeirogon defeated me.

Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan

Everything in this Country Must by Colum McCann


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Reen wrote: "Hello all

I seem impudently full of welcome for myself at the beginning of this new thread having been only a very occasional visitor of late."


Delighted to see you at any time, Reen. And I've now put the Claire Keegan on my list.


message 4: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments Great intro Anne...loved it

A still and very mild day in the Shires, almost incredible for early Nov, after creeping cold winds and skies in last week or so. Beginning to wonder if it will be the mildest Sept-Dec on record down here.

Reading has been consistently strong for a good 7-8 weeks now, right now i'm reading:

Visitation by Jenny Erpenbeck.
The great german tells a strange tale with lots of detail and so far i'm savouring it

The Ideal World of Dictatorship By Stefan Wolle, an english translation of a 1998 work on the DDR from 1971-89, so far its superb and only could be written by a european where the style and depth of modern history puts the readymade, popular septic island history of the UK historians into the shade.

Occasion For Loving (1963) by Nadine Gordimer, is wonderful lively and quite tough edged portrait of a south african millieu in the early 1960s and the uneasy world these people inhabit, with apartheid hovering over the situation

Who Speaks For Wales:Essays by Raymond Williams is something Mach might like, the great thinker waxes lyricial on Wales and Welshness. A recurring theme is his idea that the english in the 1950-70 period were now living with the upheaval and change that traditional Wales lived through in the 19th century. For the English it was loss of empire, position in the world and the arrival of american popular culture for the welsh it was the anglicisation of the Welsh marches/borders and industrialisation.

As for introductions...i love them but neve read them before a novel, always read them before i start a non-fiction book



message 5: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 581 comments Reen wrote: "Colum McCann’s Everything in This Country Must. Apeirogon defeated me."

I hope you enjoy it. I've read all of McCann's short story collections and I think they're all pretty solid, though I think Fishing the Sloe-Black River may be the pick. That's a shame about Apeirogon, which I haven't read (the beginning didn't grab me), but I hope you won't be deterred from Songdogs or This Side of Brightness, both excellent novels.


message 6: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Stop the presses!

It turns out I have seen a film by Paul Thomas Anderson. After posting about Magnolia, I looked up the frog scene (which I'd never seen) on YouTube. I saw Philip Seymour Hoffman and remembered seeing The Master, which it turns out was one of PTA's films. I guess I found the film pretty forgettable, since I barely remember seeing it; as far as I recall my reaction immediately after viewing was meh.


message 7: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2586 comments ThanksAnne for the new thread and hello again to Reen, good to see you.

Havin finished The Curse of La Fontaine set in Aix I have now moved back to Norfolk to read The Stone Circle, a Dr Ruth Galloway novel by Elly Griffiths. I skip read the last one, getting a little fed up with how the personal issues seemed to spread from the end of one book through the next into the beginning of a third. But this was is bowling along much better. Another child's skeleton is found at the dig site mentioned in the first book in the series and Erik's son Leif is running the site and is a bit fishy. So far so good.


message 8: by giveusaclue (last edited Nov 09, 2021 11:36AM) (new)

giveusaclue | 2586 comments On a totally non-book and very smug note, I have finished all my Christmas present buying apart from one. Got the fruit cake (in lieu of a proper Christmas cake), the stollen.


message 9: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments Lovely intro again Anne.
Regarding introductions, must confess I very rarely read them. I don’t mind so much if they are only a couple of pages but long essays, no.
I do read them if written at the end to explain points in the main thread, those are often informative especially if history is involved..


message 10: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Aah, "Apeirogon"... I wrote half of a longish review. Then I stopped because I realized I woudn't dare to post it anyway.


message 11: by giveusaclue (last edited Nov 09, 2021 02:41PM) (new)

giveusaclue | 2586 comments By the time CC finds a pink brooch I bet the granddaughter's hair will be blue!

Edited for my typo (blushes).


message 12: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments I’m still looking for something unusual,


message 13: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy You crack me up MsC.

@CCC, what does your granddaughter like for jewellery? Do you really want it to match her hair (what kind of pink)?


message 14: by Hushpuppy (last edited Nov 09, 2021 03:43PM) (new)

Hushpuppy Not quite book-related either, but I've seen over the weekend Portrait d'une jeune fille en feu (on BBC4, written and directed by Céline Sciamma), and it struck me that it would have made a really, really wonderful book. I saw some similarities with the film Call Me By Your Name (initially a book), in that both (homosexual) relationships started out with some barely concealed animosity, both lamented the time wasted not understanding the other (or themselves), and both ended with a long plan-séquence focusing on one of the two protagonists (view spoiler) listening to music (Vivaldi and Sufjan Stevens, respectively).

Edit: Dang - nope, I mis-remembered: Elio removes his walkman just before we get to hear the song, so he's actually not listening to it...


message 15: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Hushpuppy wrote: "Not quite book-related either, but I've seen over the weekend Portrait d'une jeune fille en feu"

I recall that when I first saw the title Portrait of a Lady on Fire on a list of upcoming movies, I imagined a remake of Fahrenheit 451 where only books by Henry James are burned.


message 16: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments Bill wrote: "Stop the presses!

It turns out I have seen a film by Paul Thomas Anderson. After posting about Magnolia, I looked up the frog scene (which I'd never seen) on YouTube. I saw Philip Seymour Hoffman ..."


Of the three I've seen, I liked Boogie Nights, in spite of going into it with some scepticism towards the setting and subject matter (pornographic film industry in 70s/80s California). Magnolia I found over-sentimental and insufferably full of its supposed emotional profundity, flaunting its pain and sympathy to the viewer; the only thing I liked was John C. Reilly as the cop. And Inherent Vice was a pretty straightforward translation of Pynchon's novel to the screen, or as much as would fit into the film's running time: competent and entertaining enough, but in the end it felt a little flat and unnecessary to me.


message 17: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments I am not sure if the academic discipline 'historical anthropology' exists, but if it does - and if someone wished to investigate the behaviour and attitudes of a very narrow group - High Church Anglicans in 1950s England - then they would find a wealth of information in Barbara Pym's very witty A Glass of Blessings by Barbara Pym

This immensely enjoyable novel is narrated by Wilmet Forsyth, and opens on her 33rd. birthday. Wilmet met and married Rodney during rather exciting times - Italy during the war - but is now settled with Rodney in his mother Sybil's substantial house in a 'good part' of London. Life has settled into something of a routine, and Wilmet suffers from a mild ennui - her life centres around the Church, and she has few occupations since her husband did not want her to have a job:

“I sometimes felt guilty about my long idle days. I did not really regret not having any children, but I sometimes envied the comfortable busyness of my friends who had. No-one expected them to have any other kind of occupation.”

So, Wilmet indulges in a few mild flirtations with a few men, attends evening classes in Portugese, and busies herself with Church matters. Attitudes regarding the Church are revealing:

“… the church nearest to us is very Low, and I couldn’t bear that.”

I was surprised and interested to read that celibacy, though not a requirement for C of E priests, was still practised - and considered desirable presumably in the High Church - in the 1950s (I have not a clue about the difference between 'High" and 'Low' Church, BTW.)
Is that still the case? If so, I didn't know.

The arrival of a new assistant priest is described as ‘an answer to our prayers’ (to be taken literally)…
"Would he be a celibate?”
“I should think so,” I said. “Neither Father Thames nor Father Bode is married.”

(an advertisement in)…”the Church Times” said Sybil, “with a few tempting titbits to encourage suitable applicants. Vestments - Western Use - large robed choir - opportunities for youth work. Though perhaps not the last - we know the kind of thing that sometimes happens: the lurid headlines in the gutter press or the small sad paragraph in the better papers.”


So one wonders if the 'celibacy' practised by at least some of the priests only applied to 'celibacy with respect to women'.
If not a priest, men were expected to marry:
“(Rowena) usually spoke about him as ‘Poor Piers’, for there was something vaguely unsatisfactory about him. At thirty-five he had had too many jobs and his early brilliance seemed to have come to nothing. It was also held against him that he had not yet married.”

As for the women in this class - they practised knitting and flower arranging:
“I have a talent for arranging flowers and soon had them looking more artistically natural..."
and change their clothes for dinner, then “when I came down again, the men were in the drawing room, drinking sherry… A shadow, surely of displeasure, seemed to cross James Cash’s face, and I guessed he was probably one of those men who disapprove of women drinking spirits - or indeed of anyone drinking gin before a meal.”

It seems that Wilmet does not have independent means, for Rodney’s birthday present to Wilmet is “a substantial sum of money to my account, nothing really spontaneous or romantic about it.” And although it his her birthday meal, The men would not of course have realized that (the dishes) had been chosen specially for me, looking upon the whole meal as no more than was due to them. And at the end, Sybil says: “Shall we leave the gentlemen to their port and manly conversation.”

It's difficult to imagine a more concentrated distillation of the attitudes and behaviours of that class at that time... and all those quotations occur in the first 20 pages, as well as this one regarding a birth:
‘Boy or girl?’
‘A boy.’
‘That is supposed to be the best’, laughed Sybil.


So - a world made for men, it would appear. And for the rich, too, to judge by these passages:

“Ah, the trolley bus!” Lady Nollard’s tone was full of horror and I realized that she had probably never travelled on one…
“…Friday does seem to be the obvious day for fish,” (said Miss Holmes).
“When I was a girl,” said Lady Nollard, “there was an excellent cheap and nourishing soup or broth we used to make for the cottagers on the estate… made of bones, of course and large quantities of … turnips, swedes, carrots and so on.”
…there was always the danger that she might start talking about ‘the working classes’, ‘the lower classes’, or even quite simply ‘the poor’.


Pym's dissection of this milieu is not only brilliant, but also very funny - as I hope at least some of those excerpts show. As the novel develops, we see Wilmet searching for something to keep her occupied and interested; other characters, too, are shown changing in unexpected ways.

It says a great deal about Pym's brilliance that someone like myself - who has no interest in religion or the church - found the story hugely enjoyable. I strongly recommend this book.

(A word about the Introduction by John Bayley - as usual, I didn't read this until I had finished the novel - and just as well, as it contains spoilers. Apart from telling the reader about how Pym's reputation was resuscitated by Philip Larkin and Lord David Cecil, it seems rather superfluous.)


message 18: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments scarletnoir wrote: "I am not sure if the academic discipline 'historical anthropology' exists, but if it does - and if someone wished to investigate the behaviour and attitudes of a very narrow group - High Church Anglicans in 1950s England - then they would find a wealth of information in Barbara Pym's very witty A Glass of Blessings ..."

I read this not too long ago myself and agree very much with your well-chosen observations. It's a tribute to Pym's ability that she weaves such a spell that the reader is captivated no matter how alien the setting of the novel may seem, or how mundane the concerns of its characters. I feel a little depressed that there are so few more books of hers to look forward to - all those wasted years, when she was in publishing limbo!

As an aside, this book also tipped me over into deciding to read something by Margaret Oliphant sooner rather than later, as Wilmet mentions somewhere that she was given that name because her mother admired Mrs. Oliphant's books. So I have The Doctor's Family near the top of one of my various stacks of things I plan to read in the near future.


message 19: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Berkley wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "As an aside, this book also tipped me over into deciding to read something by Margaret Oliphant sooner rather than later...."

Let us know what you think... there are a few ladies of that era who have been praised here on eTLS, and sooner or later I'll give them a go - but they are not all for me. I didn't 'get on' with Jane Gardam, for instance.


message 20: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Georg wrote: "Aah, "Apeirogon"... I wrote half of a longish review. Then I stopped because I realized I woudn't dare to post it anyway."

If it is a hatchet job, please do! Criticism is so much more fun than praise!

(As for 'Apeirogon' - I haven't read it, nor am I likely to do so, based on what I have read about it.)


message 21: by Fuzzywuzz (new)

Fuzzywuzz | 295 comments On Monday, I spent the largest sum of Money in one go in my local bookshop. It was £81.94, a figure that would normally have my nerves frayed. Courtesy of the Northern Irish 'Spend Local' scheme, any resident adult over 18 could apply to get a £100 card.

For a brief moment, I considered what I would spend the money on, if it wasn't books...not much was the answer. I'm not interesting in fashion, make-up or buying 'stuff' just for the sake of it, so books it was.

Walking around the bookshop, I was like a child whose Christmas had come early. This was my haul:

This Much is True by Miriam Margolyes
Six Four by Hideo Yokoyama
Awakenings by Oliver Sachs
Scoff by Pen Vogler
Being Mortal by Atul Gawande
Before the Coffee Gets Cold by Toshikazu Kawaguchi
A hardback notebook for writing book quotes/interesting passages.

The only other thing I will buy will be hairproduct. Damp weather and curly frizzy hair mix in rather unsightly ways.

Mr Fuzzywuzz and I are off to the walled city of Derry today, taking the train. The route is highly picturesque. Neither of us has been since long before Covid. I performed a Lateral Flow Test just in case which is thankfully negative.


message 22: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Bill wrote: "I found the film pretty forgettable, since I barely remember seeing it; as far as I recall my reaction immediately after viewing was meh."

Although I remember seeing 'There will be blood', that is more because I remember what an unpleasant experience it was, rather than remembering the plot. 'Meh' sounds like a good judgement of its artistic value, though.


message 23: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Hushpuppy wrote: "I mis-remembered: Elio removes his walkman just before we get to hear the song, so he's actually not listening to it..."

Unless the viewer is meant to sense that the character is playing the tune inside his own head? I can pretty much do this with music I am really familiar with, and sometimes do so deliberately.


message 24: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Bill wrote: "I recall that when I first saw the title Portrait of a Lady on Fire on a list of upcoming movies, I imagined a remake of Fahrenheit 451 where only books by Henry James are burned."

Hahahah! Like!


message 25: by Berkley (last edited Nov 10, 2021 01:00AM) (new)

Berkley | 1026 comments My latest book finished was Norman Mailer's The Deer Park. This was his third novel, but if I hadn't known that beforehand, I would have guessed that it was his first, because it had that feel to it. For one thing, though I wouldn't necessarily say this is a coming of age story, the narrator is a young man who thinks he might want to become a writer.

More interestingly, another major character is an older man, a film director who has fallen afoul of a McCarthy-like anti-communist Congressional committee.

It's always a little unfair to interpret a writer's protagonists as versions of himself, but in this case it's a little hard to avoid feeling that Charles Eitel, the director, is Mailer's vision of someone he might become, both as a creative artist and as a person - and that he was ambivalent about the idea for reasons that are difficult to discuss without giving away some plot points.

There is a third major male character that I suspect (feeling guilty all the while for these facile judgments) also represents something Mailer saw in himself - in this case perhaps the darker, taboo-breaking part of his psyche.

This is all beneath the surface (though not very far beneath, it seems to me) of what is in other respects an entertaining Hollywood yarn - though it takes place for the most part in a desert resort rather than in Hollywood (referred to as "the capital" in the book) itself. Most of the characters are film stars, studio execs, directors, agents, etc or at least on the fringes of the entertainment industry in one way or another. One of the best scenes is comprised of two dialogues, one after the other, between a studio head and the two stars to whom he is trying to sell the idea they should marry one another for publicity purposes. I kept hearing Donald Trump as the voice of the studio exec.

One other reason this book felt like a first novel is that it seemed to me to wear some of its influences on its sleeve: in this case, Hemingway (who is name-checked in the text) and Dostoyevsky (who is not). As is so often the case, the book is most successful when it isn't trying too hard to emulate anyone else - the scene I mentioned above doesn't owe anything to anyone but or anything but Mailer's ear for dialogue and his talent for creating a voice that comes alive.

I think he was less successful, in this book at least, when he tried to be profound or to impart weighty observations on the intricacies of human relationships or psychology. Still, I didn't begrudge him the effort or the ambition. It always felt like a sincere attempt to come to grips with difficult probems, even if perhaps not entirely free of a desire to impress - but then, who would ever write a book if they didn't want to impress, to make an impression, in some sense?


message 26: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6745 comments Mod
scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "deciding to read something by Margaret Oliphant sooner rather than later...."

"there are a few ladies of that era who have been praised here on eTLS, and sooner or later I'll give them a go - but they are not all for me. I didn't 'get on' with Jane Gardam..."


"That era"? Margaret Oliphant died in 1897. Jane Gardam is still alive.


message 27: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6745 comments Mod
Thank you for the as always great intro, Anne.
I always read introductions - but after I've read the book.


message 28: by AB76 (last edited Nov 10, 2021 01:35AM) (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments scarletnoir wrote: "I am not sure if the academic discipline 'historical anthropology' exists, but if it does - and if someone wished to investigate the behaviour and attitudes of a very narrow group - High Church Ang..."

i think "high church" with Pym means Anglo-Catholic, which was the smells and bells offshoot spawned in Oxforrd in the mid 19thc, which would have possibly introduced more Roman Catholic standards like celibacy for priests

However "high church" in Anglicanism, in my opinion, generally just leans towards more Laudian services and liturgy, with cassocks worn etc and is not necessairly anglo-catholic

Low church leans more towards less ornaments a more contemporary liturgy and elements of non-conformist Protestantism. More like a Methodist or Congregationalist approach


message 29: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments At the old folks day centre i volunteer at "The Lambeth Walk" is a favourite with the seated exercise classes, i was just researching the song and discovered the remarkable Noel Gay, who seems to have been a true homegrown songwriting legend...

i love finding about songs i barely know, via the older generation at the centre...


message 30: by scarletnoir (last edited Nov 10, 2021 02:48AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Gpfr wrote: "That era"? Margaret Oliphant died in 1897. Jane Gardam is still alive."

My mistake re. Oliphant- however Gardam (1928-present) overlaps Pym (1913-1980) , though is younger of course. I have learnt something about her as a result of your post - 'Old Filth', though set as far as I recall in the 1950s, or maybe 60s, was only published in 2004. This was a shock to me, as it had the feel of a book written during the period.
Anyway - Pym is much better, IMO of course.


message 31: by scarletnoir (last edited Nov 10, 2021 02:57AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments AB76 wrote: "i think "high church" with Pym means Anglo-Catholic, which was the smells and bells offshoot spawned in Oxforrd in the mid 19thc, which would have possibly introduced more Roman Catholic standards like celibacy for priests"

Thank you... though as I am unlikely to have any use for the distinction in 'real life', it'll remain as 'theoretical knowledge'! Amazing how splits and schisms always appear in religions, political parties etc. - usually down to personal ambition, I suspect. Odd to think that you could be killed for being "the wrong sort of Christian" in the past (?), or "the wrong sort of Muslim" nowadays, in certain areas.

On a much less serious note - it seems that the 'Lambeth Walk' was written in 1937, though I still remember hearing it from time to time on the radio in the 50s and maybe even 60s. There can't be many of your codgers who remember it from 1937... (no offence intended - I often refer to myself as a 'codger', and have been known to embarrass my wife by asking if there is a 'codger's discount' for various entertainments...)


message 32: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i think "high church" with Pym means Anglo-Catholic, which was the smells and bells offshoot spawned in Oxforrd in the mid 19thc, which would have possibly introduced more Roman Cathol..."

i think thats where the old folk at the centre heard it , in the 50s and 60s, rather than 1930s. Our oldest attendee is 97 and in spritely physical form but most are aged 78-88, all too young to remember the late 1930s that well, some werent born of course


message 33: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6745 comments Mod
Machenbach wrote re Barbara Pym: "they were eventually published (some posthumously), although I think she also wrote a lot of short stories that haven't yet been published..."

In the introduction to Civil to Strangers and Other Writings, Hazel Holt writes that Barbara Pym left 6 complete novels, 3 unfinished novels and 27 short stories.
An Unsuitable Attachment (the book which was rejected) , Crampton Hodnet and An Academic Question were published posthumously. Her 2nd novel, Civil to Strangers, was then published in a volume with the 3 unfinished novels and 4 short stories.
That would seem to indicate that there are 2 novels which haven't been published.


message 34: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Machenbach wrote: "That titbit about Larkin and Cecil reviving her career has become so commonplace that it risks overshadowing the fact that she herself managed to instigate and sustain her career on her own rather well..."

I was already aware of that anecdote before reading Bayley's rather superfluous introduction, though I thought it might be of interest to those who didn't know it... I entirely agree with you that Pym didn't - or should not - have needed/required their patronage. The books stand on their own.

(PS - I may have imagined this, but does publishing a book with an 'introduction' in some way extend the duration of copyright? Or am I just being my usual cynical self...?)


message 35: by scarletnoir (last edited Nov 10, 2021 05:05AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Machenbach wrote:last week: "The form/content, subject/style preference often divides readers, 'though I think we're more often at different positions along a spectrum of preferences. At the extremes of that spectrum even a diehard stylist would be obliged to admit that pretty words are not an end in themselves and that there must be something else to sustain interest or even meaning whilst, at the other end, it would seem to be evident that there can be no treatment of complex subject-matter without a certain minimal level of linguistic competence."

Yes, I think that's fair enough. Nabokov is taking a pretty extreme position, though, if he felt that Dostoyevsky's 'linguistic competence' was insufficient for him to deal with the very complex and ambiguous moral dilemmas which he himself sets up in his narratives. As I wrote before - FD is a great example of someone who was able to discuss complex matters in simple language. Better than someone who chooses to discuss trivial matters in complex language, I think.

But you make a good point, and I agree with it.


message 36: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6745 comments Mod
scarletnoir wrote: "does publishing a book with an 'introduction' in some way extend the duration of copyright?"

I think not - the copyright of the introduction is separate, if I understand correctly. However, if we're talking about a new scholarly edition of a work with not just a new introduction but new footnotes etc., copyright would then date from its publication.


message 37: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2586 comments scarletnoir wrote: " I often refer to myself as a 'codger', and have been known to embarrass my wife by asking if there is a 'codger's discount' for various entertainments...)"

I use the words mouldy oldie!


message 38: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1486 comments The Burnt-Out Town of Miracles by Roy Jacobsen translated by Don Bartlett. The Burnt-Out Town of Miracles by Roy Jacobsen
When his village is evacuated by the Finnish army in 1939, Timo Vatanen, a sort of village idiot who makes his living as a woodcutter, refuses to leave. The Russians set up camp in the village. Timo remains and plays up to his ‘fool’ reputation, secretly acting as caretaker to the village homes and saviour to an odd assortment of Russian men pressed into service by the Russian army.
This hugely impressive piece of writing, is not so much a novel about the Winter War, as about the lives of ordinary people dragged into war.
The village of Suomussalmi is known for its battle in 1939, when just 11,000 Finns decisively defeated an army of 50,000 Russians set on cutting Finland in half. The town’s residents burnt their homes before the Russians arrived, and disappeared into the surrounding forest fighting what effectively was a guerrilla war.
Many books are written about war, but more than most, this will long remain in my memory.
The real strength is in the survival and antics of the group of six misfits that Timo finds himself accidentally responsible for, amidst all the killing and the bitter winter around them. Jacobsen develops this hapless group into a community; two brothers from Ukraine, an elderly and short-sighted teacher, “a wretch called Rodion” (who is obsessively guarding a pair of his wife’s red shoes that he was picking up when he was press-ganged), an enigmatic youth and, fortunately, Antonov, who speaks both languages and serves as a translator.
I am a big fan of Jacobsen’s work, but this stands out as his best novel.

‘I want to say thank you,’ he said with earnestness, after which he drew his right hand out of the bear-glove and held it out to me, and as we shook hands and looked at each other, I knew that from now on this man would be willing to die for me, as no one had ever been before, with the possible exception of my parents, but I could not remember any of that and oddly enough, this was such a huge change between us, it was almost impossible to bear, I could see into him, we were now one person, I didn’t even think of him as Russian and of myself as Finnish, or that this was not peace, but war, as I ought to have done.



message 39: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments AB76 wrote: "At the old folks day centre i volunteer at "The Lambeth Walk" is a favourite with the seated exercise classes, i was just researching the song and discovered the remarkable Noel Gay, who seems to h..."

I first heard the tune as the theme for Franz Reizenstein's "'Lambeth Walk' Variations" - one of those humorous 'high art' takes on popular music, though it doesn't work as well if the listener doesn't immediately recognize the tune, as was the case with me. (Though there's some fun in recognizing the classic pieces alluded to - like the 'Tristan'-'Meistersinger' variation.) Reizenstein was a contributor to the parodic Hoffnung Music Festivals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orD12...


message 40: by AB76 (last edited Nov 10, 2021 06:39AM) (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments Machenbach wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "A word about the Introduction by John Bayley - as usual, I didn't read this until I had finished the novel - and just as well, as it contains spoilers. Apart from telling the re..."

i must read some Pym, she was very much an Anglo-Catholic writer, a part of life which on the godless island has become almost forgotten, like so much of the protestant religious divisions and sects

i was mostly ignorant in my teens, reading about the civil war led me to make sure i knew what all the protestant sects were about and doctrinal differences, which serves me well now when i find references that are so general and rather inaccurate about certain sections b y modern writers and authors. (Though Sandemanians are still a bit obscure to me)


message 41: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "At the old folks day centre i volunteer at "The Lambeth Walk" is a favourite with the seated exercise classes, i was just researching the song and discovered the remarkable Noel Gay, w..."

thanks bill, will watch that youtube link


message 42: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments AB76 wrote: "Great intro Anne...loved it

A still and very mild day in the Shires, almost incredible for early Nov, after creeping cold winds and skies in last week or so. Beginning to wonder if it will be the ..."


I'm glad someone is having mild weather, as La Nina is in full force here in western WA. It least it seemed that way yesterday as I got soaked walking to an appointment. When I got on the bus, the sun was shining, but an ominous gray (grey?) cloud was off to the west. It and winds (we've been doing a lot of wind here lately, too, as front after front sails through) along with it.

Of course one cannot take a bus or, for that matter, wait for an appointment without a book. I grabbed Dead or Alive off the paperback shelves to take with me. It is a tad 'damsel in distressey' but looks still to be a good mystery (circa 1936). Not one of her Miss Silver's, but that's okay.

Since this is my catch-up week doctorwise thanks to personal 'put-offs', Covid, and having for the first time to find new health insurance (my old employer is fazing out retiree benefits), I want to let all you NHSers how lucky you are. I have come to realize that not only is there a health segment I was unaware of - middlemen who connect people to various commercial insurers - but the number of support staff (think billing, for one) across this country has got to be quite large.

Rant done.


message 43: by scarletnoir (last edited Nov 10, 2021 07:50AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Machenbach wrote: "...this description does not increase my knowledge or wisdom in any meaningful way."

I have no objection to descriptive writing which is maybe poetic or beautiful, but for me it tends to lose its impact and attractiveness if it goes on too long - then my eyes glaze over and I no longer know what I'm reading. My oft-repeated joke about this is that I can't read "four pages about the living room carpet", and that remains the case.

An example of good descriptive writing - IMO, of course:

"For a while I was speechless with shock: without a word I put on my tall snow boots and the first fleece to hand from the coat rack. Outside, in the pool of light falling from the porch lamp, the snow was changing into a slow, sleepy shower. Oddball stood next to me in silence, tall, thin and bony like a figure sketched in a few pencil strokes. Every time he moved, snow fell from him like icing sugar from pastry ribbons."

So - descriptive writing mixed with plot development. And short. Perfect, no? Can't you visualise that scene? I can.


message 44: by Slawkenbergius (new)

Slawkenbergius | 425 comments Bill wrote: "Last night I watched the film Sunday in New York on TCM and was reminded of O Lucky Man!: in both films the musicians who provide the soundtrack also make an appearance as characters in the film itself. The only other films (other than concert films and musicals) that I can recall where this is the case is The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), Anatomy of a Murder, and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid."

Let's not forget the unforgetable Cat Ballou (feat. Nat King Cole and Stubby Kaye).

On the frogside, L'aventure c'est l'aventure (feat. Jacques Brel and Johnny Halliday).


message 45: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6987 comments Machenbach wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i must read some Pym, she was very much an Anglo-Catholic writer, a part of life which on the godless island has become almost forgotten, like so much of the protestant religious divis..."

interesting Mach and i think the differences between the two are quite interesting in that they actually look in different ways. With the Anglo-Catholics looking to introduce the catholic liturgy and dress into an anglican world,as opposed to High Church Anglicans simply reflecting the Laudian influences within a strong anglican tradition.
Poor old ArchBish Laud still gets a foul press for his star chamber, the reforms of the then budding Anglican church in the 1630s and his later fate, with the loss of his head. I recently found out in my little books of cathedrals(purchased in a charity shop), that he was Bishop of St Davids in Wales during the 1620s


message 46: by Reen (new)

Reen | 257 comments SydneyH wrote: "Reen wrote: "Colum McCann’s Everything in This Country Must. Apeirogon defeated me."

I hope you enjoy it. I've read all of McCann's short story collections and I think they're all pretty solid, th..."


Thanks Sydney, I persevered to about a third of the way through Apeirogon but my head was fried. I've had a lot of half-read books this year, more a reflection on my powers of concentration than the calibre of the books.


message 47: by Reen (new)

Reen | 257 comments giveusaclue wrote: "On a totally non-book and very smug note, I have finished all my Christmas present buying apart from one. Got the fruit cake (in lieu of a proper Christmas cake), the stollen."

WHAT?? I have received a very early Christmas present, a glorious garment that I coveted as much as Rapunzel's mother did a head of lettuce (Fuzzywuzz might guess what I'd spend my squids on), but I haven't so much as a Christmas card lined up for anyone else. Shame on me.


message 48: by Reen (new)

Reen | 257 comments Anne wrote: "Reen wrote: "Hello all

I seem impudently full of welcome for myself at the beginning of this new thread having been only a very occasional visitor of late."

Delighted to see you at any time, Reen..."


Well I do hope you won't find her a bum steer. I don't think you will. The books have the merit of being so short that if you're careful and clean fingered, and don't want to keep them, you could put them in your sundry gifts box for regifting. It's a thing apparently, not that I'd do that myself unless maybe with a candle....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L5Xk...

Too soon?


message 49: by Reen (last edited Nov 10, 2021 03:30PM) (new)

Reen | 257 comments Machenbach wrote: "Reen wrote: "If you want to have the satisfaction of finishing a book on an autumn day, look no further than Claire Keegan’s latest, Small Things Like These"

I too have been reading [author:Claire..."



à la mode ... wait 'til you see me in my Christmas cape... I dare say (which I'd never say) it'd take the Antarctic by storm. Everyone (of two) I've shown it to so far has pretend-stifled a guffaw. Fuck 'em!

For the record, I enjoyed Stoner very much.


message 50: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 581 comments Time’s Arrow by Martin Amis opens with a man’s death and follows the course of his life in reverse. The idea seemed like a gimmick at first, but I think Amis pulled it off quite well, with Dr Friendly’s terrible secret arriving in the perfect place in the novel. I don’t think this text contains Amis’s best prose, but there are no striking miscalculations or things to rub a picky reader the wrong way, as sometimes happens with Amis. Best of all, the book is under 140 pages.
I’m likely to slow my Amis intake from this point, now that I’ve read most of his well-regarded novels (the rest of his body of work has far less in the way of critical endorsement).
I’m now turning to John Banville’s Kepler.


« previous 1 3 4 5 6
back to top
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.