Reading the 20th Century discussion
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If Beale Street Could Talk
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If Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin (January 2022)
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Judy wrote: I've just started this and am immediately being pulled in by the power of Baldwin's writing. Me too, Judy. First few pages I've read of young Tish's 1st-person narration immediately raise intriguing questions like: why is boyfriend Fonny in jail? How can she help get him out? How will their poor families react to her pregnancy? And to the deeper issue of why we should care about all this, I already feel Baldwin has created at least two solid, interesting and believable characters who I want to know more about.
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I also find them very interesting, Gregory. The sequence in the church early on is especially strong and reminds me of the only Baldwin book I've read previously, Go Tell It on the Mountain, which I thought was excellent.
I'm not sure so far how convincing Tish's voice is as that of a young woman, but that may be because I'm aware the book was written by a 50-year-old man. I have noticed one or two heavily sardonic comments where I had the feeling the character might not word things to herself quite like this - although then again, I'm quite a bit older than Baldwin was when he wrote it.
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Yes Judy, I think you are right about criticism of religious indoctrination. This is a great story. He has written a number of excellent books.
Oh! Best wishes wishes for 2022 all.
The skillful writing and pacing have already carried me past the one-third mark. Gripping high-drama scene between the families of the narrator Tish and of boyfriend Fonny shows the emergence of Tish's fierce older sister Ernestine, threatening violence over their reaction to Tish's news. A 23-year-old social worker, her sustained verbal assault on Fonny's "holy-roller" mom [a one-dimensional villain] and sisters probably would have benefited from some trimming. While 19-year-old Tish's narration too is relatively mature, her actual dialogue is fairly spare, while sprinkled with the mandatory mix of youthful curses [at least to my New York ears]. To me, it's OK for an author to give a character a more thoughtful and articulate internal narrative voice than the "actual" voice she is capable of when speaking to other characters.
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I would agree with this - the scene is powerful but the diatribe seems to last so long and eventually made me feel a bit sorry for Fonny's mother having to listen to it all. I wonder if we will find out any more about her to make her less one-dimensional.
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Great point. I did just wonder if someone of her age would have some of the thoughts put into her mind - but this is one problem with first-person narration in general, I suppose, despite all its strengths in terms of intimacy etc.
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Excellent comments. I think I'm okay with Tish's narration so far. And the swearing was a little surprising at first, but feels realistic. I'm about a quarter of the way, and one thing I've really enjoyed is the way Tish hears the conversation of her family members while she's lying down in another room. This just brought back memories for me of being a teenager, living at home, and hearing the family voices and the familiar comings and goings and being able to picture it all from behind my closed bedroom door.
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I think I agree with Judy's earlier point about the believability of some of the social analysis and criticism coming to us via Tish: on schools, for example, 'the kids had been told they weren't worth shit and everything they saw around them proved it. They struggled, they struggled, but they fell, like flies, and they congregated on the garbage heaps of their lives, like flies.' This sounds too much like Baldwin, not 19 year old Tish.
Roman Clodia wrote: "My, this is depressing! Especially given that it was first published in 1974 and almost 50 years later we're still talking about racial issues in policing and incarceration.I think I agree with J..."
I agree
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Has anyone seen the film which came out in 2018? I've noticed it is currently £1.99 to stream on Amazon Prime, and will hope to watch it soon, maybe at the weekend.
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Is anyone else wondering if this might be a response to To Kill a Mockingbird, another book about a poor Black man falsely accused of rape and imprisoned, waiting trial? I know I'm in a minority in disliking that book but this one turns it on its head by focusing on giving voices to the Black characters who are marginalised in Mockingbird, and counters all that cutesy Scout stuff by giving us a far more robust view of families. About 10 years between the two books, I think?
I should finish tonight or tomorrow.
How interesting, RC. The circumstance he writes about is still so common in the US I hadn't thought to compare it to fiction, but you're right, Mockingbird does seem a bit like pablum when you put the two together.I loved his depiction of the families--that was my favorite part. Each unique and a strong character in themselves.
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I've finished now. For all the great writing and characterisation - or maybe *because* of them - I found this harrowing and depressing. I can see from other reviews that some people find some hope in the book but it left me feeling helpless and powerless :(
It's an excellent example of literature as political activism - though the fact that 50 years on these events are still everyday occurrences rather mitigates that position.
Who is still reading? I'd also like to discuss the ending when we're sure everyone's done.
I have just finished and I'm not sure how I feel about it at the moment. I truly found this depressing, but I'm glad I read it.
Hello all, I finished IBSCT a few days ago. I had seen the movie when it came out and was underwhelmed - but glad I read the book as the differences were so interesting. (Tish's mother's trip to PR was so different!)
Others have picked up on the first person narrator issue - the believability of Tish as a young girl when the opinions/viewpoints are pretty clearly those of an older, politicized man. I liked it anyway - sometimes I think just the effort of trying to inhabit another's POV is a sign of hope, and a belief that we can try to understand one another! And Baldwin did convey a sense of her youth and the intensity of her feelings.
As a work of art the novel felt a bit contrived and definitely flawed. But as an example of time and place, and an effort to show that we should not/must not diminish the dreams and interior realities of others, I thought it was wonderful.
One of those novels that I wish had an extra 100 pages for me to enjoy the prose and learn more about the characters. A fast-paced and well-written story of two thoughtful, believable young people and their struggling families. As much as Baldwin leaves no doubt of their awareness of the depressing daily racism they face (“People looked at us as though we were zebras.”), he also invests them with the strength to face it alongside whatever allies they can find. Far from a rigid black-white dichotomy, the story contrasts Black family members’ reactions to Fonny and Tish’s issues: Fonny’s religious mother condemns them while others work overtime at their jobs and Tish’s mom Sharon flies to Puerto Rico to confront his accuser. There she is much aided by a selfless young local, Jaime – one of several kind non-Black characters (Pedrocito, Levy, Hartman) set against evil whites like policeman Bell.
And there are flashes of humor: arriving at Tish’s place, Fonny’s sisters “smiled at an invisible host of stricken lovers.”
I wish that some of the secondary characters (especially Alice Hunt and Bell) were not so one-dimensional and that the ending was not so abrupt. But overall, this was for me an impressive work of art and social commentary.
Oh dear, looks like I'm out of step with the group again. I did find this interesting and compelling reading, but to me I could not go along with the fact this was supposed to be through the eyes of a young, uneducated girl. To me this was definitely from the author. The sex scene for example, was not something I could see Tish thinking. It seemed to me it was what a man would have liked a girl to be thinking and feeling. Yes, the racism and the injustice of the so called justice system, was deplorable, but I'm afraid that still happens today and not just to the black community. Lack of money is still a big factor.
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Reading the 20th Century
Books mentioned in this topic
Go Tell It on the Mountain (other topics)If Beale Street Could Talk (other topics)
If Beale Street Could Talk
by
James Baldwin
In this honest and stunning novel, James Baldwin has given America a moving story of love in the face of injustice. Told through the eyes of Tish, a nineteen-year-old girl, in love with Fonny, a young sculptor who is the father of her child, Baldwin's story mixes the sweet and the sad. Tish and Fonny have pledged to get married, but Fonny is falsely accused of a terrible crime and imprisoned. Their families set out to clear his name, and as they face an uncertain future, the young lovers experience a kaleidoscope of emotions-affection, despair, and hope. In a love story that evokes the blues, where passion and sadness are inevitably intertwined, Baldwin has created two characters so alive and profoundly realized that they are unforgettably ingrained in the American psyche.