"We Are Satellites" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

Come share all your thoughts!

Don't forget to announce where you are if you're hoping to come here to discuss the book before finishing.

And do check out the Q&A with the author!

A few questions to get us started:

1. What did you think of the SF elements?
2. What did you think of the characters?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

[Ellen]

I really liked this book a lot. Gave it 4 stars because I felt it was a little slow and redundant in the middle.
When pilots got to be a big thing and people without them were looked down on and lost opportunities and I looked for real life comparisons . Do you know someone or are you someone who doesn't have a smartphone and just has a regular cell or flip phone? Ever heard how people react, what they say? Ever heard people say "they're just not technical" about someone? With a pilot it is visual if you didn't have one.
I thought the concept was interesting even though I don't see people being that eager to have their brain's altered (I hope).
The depiction of a family with a child with a chronic health disorder was pretty much spot on. Life does seem to revolve around the child's condition. The parents can be overly protective and the child often resentful and rebellious acting recklessly as they got older and want to fit in and be like everyone else.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I liked the novel very much, but the ending was too pat for me in that everyone, including the family members who gained a better brain from their pilot, gave it up for the cause. Kinda unrealistic. I wouldn't mind getting getting a pilot at all. However, the led light would have to go.

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

I was hoping for more examination of how the sci-fi element influenced and disrupted society. I felt like this was mostly a family drama that could have centered around anything really.

The advantages the Pilots give are big and it seems like that would start separating society more than the book led on.

[Bonnie]

Hank wrote: "I was hoping for more examination of how the sci-fi element influenced and disrupted society. I felt like this was mostly a family drama that could have centered around anything really."

Agree; I am merely rephrasing Hank's comment.

When David joined the army's Pilot program, I hoped that the story would widen, that we would hear more stories about experiences with the Pilots, but we didn't.

What would happen in society with more and more people gradually having their minds enhanced? Nancy Kress did a good job with that in the Sleepless books starting with Beggars in Spain . Children -- some children -- get engineered in utero to not need sleep, and over time the "Sleepless" pull ahead as a favored class.

The Quiet pills reminded me of the Beggars in Spain scene where the Sleepless teenagers (view spoiler)[find some drug or booze that knocks them out for a few minutes. They rebel by seeing what it's like to be unconscious for a few minutes, because they are always awake it seems cool. (hide spoiler)]

At any rate, I thought it could have been stronger but, I enjoyed reading it. The quiet story and strong characterizations, with technology changing a world still recognizable to us, reminded me of Shelter by Susan Palwick. If you liked this maybe check it out.

[Anna]

Thanks Bonnie, Shelter is on my TBR, I had no idea it would be similar, I should get to it! I read Beggars some years ago, and have forgotten a lot, but I didn't really end up liking it as much as I expected.

[Oleksandr]

I finished the book and I liked the story, but the ending (as others mentioned above) is rather weak. And as for discrimination - it is a hard question - see David, who states that his pilot saved him - if it also saved some of his team that it isn't a personal choice, for in this case you endanger lives of others.

I also heavily disliked/disbelieved the idea of placebo Pilots for rich&famous - if one cannot really see the difference it wouldn't be adopted that fast

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Finished! Agreed with the rest of you that the middle was a bit bogged down and the end a bit too rushed/thin. A 25 year old who'd lost his foot after popping unprescribed pills in a shady part of town? That launch would have been frought!

I thought the family aspect was a smart way to talk about individual experiences rather than a macro level statistical take on adoption of new tech, but I did want a bit more depth than reticence to get one.

I like the smart phone analogy, because I went right to COVID vaccine acceptance, and this was quite frustrating in that framework. I assure you, biopharm companies are not all Erin Brockovitching their results. This is a HIGHLY regulated field, and surgeons are notoriously skittish about performing procedures that might give them bad names. There are some issues, especially in the US, with ease of collating adverse events in medical devices, but you've seen how folks felt about a vaccine--optional brain surgery? How the hell did we go from "never heard of this break through" to "everyone has one" in zero time?

And wouldn't the LED impact sleep cycles? That was the first thing I thought of lol

[Oleksandr]

Allison wrote: "This is a HIGHLY regulated field, and surgeons are notoriously skittish about performing procedures that might give them bad names. There are some issues, especially in the US, with ease of collating adverse events in medical devices, but you've seen how folks felt about a vaccine--optional brain surgery?"

Actually, this issue came up recently in another group, where we discussed this year Hugo nominees, there is a novelette The Pill about a wonder drug that allows one to get slim in no time, but which kills like 10% of users. I guess it is an artistic license to exaggerate how it can be easily adopted

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

That one we even have real world info on what happened with Phen-Fen! 10% death??

Best I can gauge, Phen-fen killed ~276 people out of the 6 million who took it via prescription and it's one of the most condemned drugs in the industry. I get the desire to show how fast people are willing to do things, but it's not really helping my personal feelings around the anti-science movement lol

[Oleksandr]

Allison wrote: "That one we even have real world info on what happened with Phen-Fen! 10% death??"

In that story, which tries to fight fat-shaming it was to stress the desire to adhere to 'standards of beauty' were people risk their lives to adhere to the norm. I guess both is the novel we discuss and the story, their authors tried to stress dangers of fads, but it ought to be done not on FDA controlled path

[Mindy]

I really enjoyed the book though I felt some of the events of the plot were unrealistic. I felt like it was interesting that the brain implant did seem somewhat reasonable, because I believe it is true that people cannot genuinely multitask and it feels believable that maybe stimulating an area of the brain might heighten those abilities.

I thought it was unrealistic that they wouldn't be able to "adjust" the levels of the Pilot function for people with different brains on the bell curve of perceiving sensory input. It frustrated me that there wasn't a simple solution to David's issue, either by changing the Pilot settings or through a pill.

Otherwise, I really loved the characters and especially Sophie's growth towards maturity and competence. I thought it was as much a story about finding fulfilling work and learning how to thrive as it was about the Pilot.

[Bonnie]

yes, would be pretty crazy-making if the medical people kept saying "Have you been doing the exercises?" instead of fixing the problem.

[Anna]

Bonnie wrote: "yes, would be pretty crazy-making if the medical people kept saying "Have you been doing the exercises?" instead of fixing the problem."

Unfortunately this is exactly what they do when the problem can't be measured or isn't immediately obvious and textbook. The amount of times I've been told to do ridiculous things (that do not work) to help with insomnia is very crazy-making! I too have found my own solutions, and I'm happy to say that none of it involves shady drugs.

And yes, it frustrates me to no end that there isn't a simple solution!

[Mindy]

Anna wrote: "Bonnie wrote: "yes, would be pretty crazy-making if the medical people kept saying "Have you been doing the exercises?" instead of fixing the problem."

Unfortunately this is exactly what they do w..."

I think doctors like to preserve their Medical Authority because there are times when they need it to convince their patients to do something that the patient may not believe in but is actually medically necessary. I know doctors have pulled their Medical Authority on me at least once during a serious time and ultimately I was glad that they did.

Sorry to hear about your insomnia, Anna! Lately I have been really getting into ambient sound videos on YouTube to help me relax. Perhaps you might enjoy them also? If you are interested, I would be happy to PM you some of my favorites.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

haha, Mindy, great example of recommending things known and simple for very complex medical problems! I think your instinct is a very human one that doctors are not immune to-- we want to help, and we want to share what we know works for us. Alas, Western medicine is known to be fairly bad at diagnosing because the money and the results are in treatment. if you can fix 10 people a day OR make incremental progress on the diagnosis of one person, most of us would treat this like the classic train lever ethics problem and fix the 10. but that means the one person gets...a pill or some exercises or told their problem is psychological and summarily dismissed. Without exaggeration, 3 of my family members almost died because of this, and my friend's sibling DID die because of it. It's ... really, really painful for me to watch that happen to David so realistically here.

[Mindy]

Allison wrote: "haha, Mindy, great example of recommending things known and simple for very complex medical problems! I think your instinct is a very human one that doctors are not immune to-- we want to help, and..."

Haha, yeah, I am behind the times. I just discovered these videos.

I am sorry to hear that, Allison!!!

[Anna]

Thank you Allison for interpreting what my brain couldn't articulate, having been awake for 24 hours at this point, after three hours of sleep. It's really convenient that I can blurt out one-liners, and then you swoop in to explain what they mean! :D

(My "solution" to insomnia is that I don't even try to sleep, all fixed!)

[Mindy]

Anna wrote: "Thank you Allison for interpreting what my brain couldn't articulate, having been awake for 24 hours at this point, after three hours of sleep. It's really convenient that I can blurt out one-liner..."

Teamwork, ftw! : )

[Lynn]

Enjoyed reading this. Did feel that there was enough left open and bits sort of unresolved for a follow up though I guess it does equally stand on its own.

I am wondering though about adding cocoa powder to chilli...

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Lynn, the author is answering questions in the q&a, maybe she has a recipe :D

[رات کی]

What is significance of the title " We are satellites"?How is it related to the story? How exactly have you perceived satellites like what satellites represent?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Hari wrote: "What is significance of the title " We are satellites"?How is it related to the story? How exactly have you perceived satellites like what satellites represent?"

I think number one, satellites blink lights on and off. Two they go in a preset orbit, planned out by science.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I no longer have my copy but there was a line early on where Val says that to get daughter. can someone look it up?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

(i also think that's a good question for the author in the q&a!)

[Oleksandr]

Allison wrote: "I no longer have my copy but there was a line early on where Val says that to get daughter. can someone look it up?"

Yes, I guess it it linked:
“Is that a shooting star?” Sophie pointed at an object moving quickly through the sky. She let her hand fall gently onto Val’s head.

“No, it’s a satellite.” Val kept still so Sophie wouldn’t withdraw her hand. “See how steadily it moves? It’s circling the Earth, not falling.”

“Oh. Are there a lot of them?”

“Satellites? Yeah, I think so. Some relay phone calls and communication, and some are for navigation, like when the car’s GPS tells us where to drive, and”—she ran out of types, though she knew there were more—“others. The moon! The moon is a satellite orbiting Earth, too, in a way.”

“Do any of them run into each other?”

If Sophie was into this, Val would learn it all, but at that moment all she could do was try to remember. “I think it’s kind of like when people are running at the same speed in the same direction, so they never catch each other.” There were different orbits involved, she knew she was being reductive, but this would do for now.

“One of them should take a shortcut so they can meet and run together, instead.” Sophie hadn’t been asking if they would crash; she’d been asking if they were lonely.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

You rock, thank you!

[Júpiter]

Hey hey.

I just finished the book yesterday and I agree with most of what people have been saying, especially about the ending being, as Allison put it, too rushed and thin.

Honestly the last few chapters bothered me a lot more than I expected. The way the family forgives Julie so fast really didn't feel okay. Julie comparing her months of lying, deception, and literally spying on her daughter to Val's narwhal incident had me scream at the book. Like, the levels of deception are really not comparable! I remembered Julie being better at communication in the beginning of the story, and I wondered if her Pilot was responsible for her extreme change in behavior, but what to make of the fact that maybe it was all a placebo effect? Would it imply that the person Julie becomes in the second half of the book is what she considers to be an "enhanced version of herself"?

So yeah... I thought the last few chapters were rushed in other areas too, but the Julie stuff was what killed them for me.

I'm glad to know someone else thought of the vaccines and the anti-medicine movements and stuff. I live in Europe and I don't think those things are better here! When Sophie first started demonstrating against Pilots, I wondered if they were all kind of like conspiracy theorists, but being framed as righteous in their cause and that got me a bit uncomfortable. But as the story continued, I thought the Pilot was different enough from Real World stuff for it to not be such a direct allegory.

I mostly like the book! David chapters stressed me so much and I just wanted to give him all the hugs the whole time, so... Mission accomplished, book!(?)

[Júpiter]

I just gave it some more thought about why the ending bothered me so much, and I'm wondering: Did the train accident fix all the conflicts? Because that's how it felt like to me, which is why the happy ending felt so unearned and unsatisfying. And if so, honest question: Could the train be considered a "deus ex machina"?

(Note: I know I'm being very negative. I'm sure if I'd waited a couple of days before posting I would mostly be writing about how effective David's chapters were, how much I enjoyed the changes in perspective, and how much I loved the family drama, which some people here have criticized! But since I just finished, I'm feeling sour over the ending.)