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Little Dorrit
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Buddy Read of Little Dorrit mid-Sept onwards with Janelle, Bridget, Lori and others
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Antoinette
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Nov 19, 2021 09:29AM
I like the way Dickens shows that it’s the people with the least who are the most generous.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Nov 19, 2021 09:44AM)
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Sue - Good observations about people's natures en masse. Gossip is a powerful destructive force.
And whenever I think about Young John Chivery I always want to cry :( He's so honest and true.
Bridget - and all - lovely comments! This is the book where I feel Charles Dickens excelled in making all his characters behave exactly true to their natures (although he was always pretty good at this :) )
Lori - I meant to say thank you for your kind words. They did give me a nice glow :)
I was also pleased that Dickens. Hose Young Chivery to “knock some sense into Arthur”. It was a very fitting act for a young man who “knows his heart”. It’s definitely in a good place. He was only thinking of Amy when confronting his rival and Arthur so unsuspecting. Now he’ll contemplate the past over and over as he does with everything.I also loved that quotation Bridget.
Sue, I run into that same problem while reading in bed :-) I'm so happy we all liked that same quote. Says a lot about Dickens writing that his words have a similar impact on us. Like the themes that Antoinette shared and the tears Jean has for Young John, I have those same feelings.I really loved Lori's idea Now he’ll contemplate the past over and over as he does with everything. oh my gosh yes! That is so frustratingly true of Arthur!
I’m so looking forward to the coming chapters.
I find it so touching that Young John loves Amy so much that he’s looking after the man she loves and making sure that Arthur understands the situation - and recognises that he loves her too.
Link to Book 2 Chapter 28 SummaryThis is a long and slightly complicated chapter. Arthur receives three groups of visitors, all characters we've seen before, so the threads are weaving together.
First we have Ferdinand Barnacle, who has interesting things to say about Society and Government (I've copied Jean's description below because she sums that up perfectly see the next post).
The second is Mr. Ruggs who first pleads with Arthur, and then uses sarcasm to try and get Arthur to leave the Marshalsea and go to the more forgiving Bench, as he might actually get out of prison that way.
And the last group is Pancks, Cavaletto, Rigaud and Mr. Flintwinch. We find out Rigaud has an article to sell to Mrs. Clennam and when she refused Rigaud started this little game to disappearing which through murder speculations at her. Rigaud has been greatly enjoying this little game, so he has stayed away longer until Cavaletto found him. He also admits to being paid by Miss Wade to spy on the Gowans.
The theme of prison really comes out in this chapter. Prisons of ones own making, physical prisons where people are locked up, and prisons created by Society that people walk into blindly, and happily. I really liked Jean's thoughts about what Dickens is showing us with this chapter (and the novel too). So here they are:*********************************
After Ferdinand Barnacle’s explanation on how government departments function on the basis of inaction, he assures Arthur that he “know[s] the way out (of the Marshalsea) perfectly.”
I think there is a deliberate double meaning here. The Circumlocution Office symbolically imprisons all innovation, creativity and progress while, at the same time, freeing up all the Barnacles and Stiltstalkings to expand their presence and value to society.
Barnacles grow beneath a ship, thus impeding the ship’s progress. Of course these government Barnacles can move in and out of their office or a prison smoothly; but those whom the Barnacles’ offices and rules are meant to serve, become weighted down and imprisoned by their presence.
Although Ferdinand Barnacle is put in Little Dorrit for comic relief, the message Charles Dickens gives through him is a bleak one. Take this excerpt, where Arthur is optimistic, but has his hopes quashed:
“‘I hope,’ said Arthur, ‘that he and his dupes may be a warning to people not to have so much done with them again.’
‘My dear Mr Clennam,’ returned Ferdinand, laughing, ‘have you really such a verdant hope? The next man who has as large a capacity and as genuine a taste for swindling, will succeed as well. Pardon me, but I think you really have no idea how the human bees will swarm to the beating of any old tin kettle; in that fact lies the complete manual of governing them. When they can be got to believe that the kettle is made of the precious metals, in that fact lies the whole power of men like our late lamented. No doubt there are here and there,’ said Ferdinand politely, ’exceptional cases, where people have been taken in for what appeared to them to be much better reasons; and I need not go far to find such a case; but they don’t invalidate the rule.“
Charles Dickens is telling us through this engaging Barnacle, that greed, fraud, adulation and idolatry will continue to wreck lives, and reap a grim harvest of death. And from the number of names of Americans (who I don’t know, but every country has their own!) mentioned as perpetrating similar frauds to Mr. Merdle’s, this syndrome is alive and kicking to this day.
Charles Dickens, sadly, was right.
This was a sad chapter in many ways, to me. It forces Arthur, and we readers, to face the futility of fighting against people and institutions like the Barnicles, and also confronting the reality that there will always be swindlers as long as there are humans wanting to make money in an easier way. As for Rigaud, somehow he seems to have the edge on everyone else even though he is the one who is spying and seems to be extorting Mrs. Clennam. He even has Baptist waiting on him again.
Part of me wishes Arthur would listen to Rugg and go to the other prison. From Dickens’ description, it sounds like the public also holds his presence at Marshalsea against Arthur. Of course, if he were at a better place, they would no doubt attack him for that.
This last fact has led me to wonder why Dorrit would be at Marshalsea while Arthur could be at the Bench. I know Rugg said there would be two types of warrants coming and Arthur went with the first rather than wait for the second. Does this have to do with different types of bankruptcies? Insolvencies?
Rigaud is so adamant that he is a ‘gentleman’ that I feel sure there is something yet to be revealed about him. Whatever the information he holds, it is enough to successfully blackmail Mrs Clennam and Flintwinch but what can it be? And where does Miss Wade fit into all of this?Arthur can’t have expected much from his mother but I feel there is hidden meaning in her note to him. Is she trying to tell him something? Am I barking up the wrong trees entirely with all of this?
There is much to be revealed, much to be done, we have a lot of questions.Weeks have passed and Arrhur is still in prison. We know nothing about Doyce. The Merdles have not shown up at the Marshalsea prison, I guess they are still in Italy with the Gowans. And what about Mr. Dorrit's money? We have only six chapters to read and I hope that in the end everything is resolved and that everyone's fate is known, including the Gowans, Miss Wade, Harriett, Doyce, Maggie ... And all the mysteries will be clarified: the noises in the Clennam house, the message in the watch, the Pancks' list...
Daniela, thanks for mentioning some riddles I wasn’t even thinking of now. There are a lot plot lines to resolve but we know that Dickens enjoyed doing that.
Sue, I also had the same thought from today's chapter about Mr. Dorrit being in the Marshalsea instead of the other prison. And we know that the Marshalsea has two sides for status purposes. It must have something to do with what you said. HmmmFiona, you may be onto something in thinking there's some hidden meaning in Rigaud's insistence that he is a gentleman. But he's also a swindler and will say anything to get what he wants.
Daniela, wow, yes so many undefined mysteries still needing to be clearly wrapped up. Dickens will see to it that all of the stories are tied up and none left hanging and unanswered. That's one of the things I love about his novels.
I wonder if there is anything that Blandois knows about the Gowans that hasn't been revealed yet?
This is quite a depressing quote from the Barnacle:“The next man who has as large a capacity and as genuine a taste for swindling, will succeed as well. Pardon me, but I think you really have no idea how the human bees will swarm to the beating of any old tin kettle; in that fact lies the complete manual of governing them.”
It holds true today unfortunately.
Luckily I got a few smiles from JeanBaptist and all his made up words consequentementally, patientissementally, secrettementally
I reread the section where Arthur goes to prison. It seems to be there are lots of writs out on Arthur, minor and larger. Mr Rugg says “Now, I find there's a little one out—a mere Palace Court jurisdiction—and I have reason to believe that a caption may be made upon that. I wouldn't be taken upon that.” He wants Arthur to wait for a writ from a higher court (the Kings Bench) and then he would go to a ‘better’ prison than the Marshalsea. I assumed this meant a newer prison but I can’t find it in the text.
Mod
Thanks Jean. No wonder I was confused. The kings bench is a prison. I thought it was just a court.
Great comments and questions everyone! I had forgotten about Pancks list. I want to know who the Flintwinch doppelganger was, and what is in the Black Box.
Link to Book 2 Chapter 29For a man like Arthur, whose nature tends toward unending self-reflection, being imprisoned in the Marshalsea is miserable. It is not only difficult for his mental health, but now also for his physical health:
”Clennam felt that his health was sinking, as his spirits had already sunk and that the weight under which he bent was bearing down”
Arthur is succumbing to a slow fever, and depression. Pancks and Cavaletto are away (keeping an eye on Blandois) and Arthur sends word to Mr. and Mrs. Plornish not to visit. Young John tries to visit, but Arthur always puts him off by saying he is writing. After about six days of this feverish existence, he wakes in a haze one day to find fresh flowers in his room. Then his door is softly opened and he sees a “figure in a black mantle” who turns out to be (finally!) Little Dorrit and Maggy. Amy sees right away that Arthur is sick and she starts tending him gently as she did his father
”drawing an arm softly round his neck, laid his head upon her bosom, put a hand upon his head, and resting her cheek upon that hand, nursed him as lovingly, and GOD know as innocently as she nursed her father”
Amy is the same as always, she is even in her old dress. The only difference is she appears “more womanly”. The Italian sun has given her a healthy glow. But the narrator tells us “If it had new meaning that smote him to the heart, the change was in his perception, not in her”
Maggy and Amy straighten the room as best they can, bringing in some food and drink. Amy takes a seat next to Arthur and begins working with her needle and thread to make a curtain for his window. She stays there all day with Arthur ”side by side in the shadow of the wall, the shadow fell like light upon him”. Finally the bells start to ring and Amy knows it is time to leave. She then tells Arthur that her brother is in town to find out what is in their father’s Will. He plans to return abroad, but tells Amy she can live wherever she wishes. That he will give her enough of their father’s fortune to make her quite rich. Amy then pleads with Arthur to let her pay off his debt. That she can never live a happy life knowing he remains in The Marshalsea. But of course Arthur can not accept her offer. In fact, he wishes he could tell her to never visit him again in prison, but he knows he’s not strong enough to ”shut out this dear face, and abandon all hope of its return”
When it is almost midnight, Young John appears at Arthur’s door. Young John escorted Amy to her hotel, and during their walk she made him promise to look after Arthur when she is not there.
Watching Arthur slip into depression and feverish delirium, made me think about Mr. Dorrit and his time in the Marshalsea. He must have had a stronger constitution than Arthur to survive all those years in that place. (of course he also had Little Dorrit!!) Arthur is positively claustrophobic at one point. Which made me wonder if the prison reminds him too much of the "dragon closet" his mother put him in as a boy. And if his childhood has left him too weak for what is required of a man to survive prison.I have a very bad feeling that Arthur is not going to survive. Though if people would just listen to Maggy, everything might be okay. I loved this part
"Oh get him to a hospital...and then the little woman as was always spinning at her wheel, she can go to the cupboard with the Princess, and say, what do you keep the Chicking there for? and then they can take it out and give it to him, and then all be happy!"
Mod
Oh Peggotty - one of my favorites. I think you are right here Jean, there are many similarities between Peggotty and Maggy. If only Arthur had a Peggotty growing up.......I just read through your analysis of this chapter in your original thread. Where you talk about the themes of death and money in Little Dorrit. It is brilliant. It really helped me bring together stray thoughts floating around in my head after this chapter.
Mod
Bridget, I hope you’re wrong in your feelings about Arthur, but he does seem to be failing physically.I have been hoping that Doyce will return from his travels having made a major coup of some kind, and lots of money and able to help Arthur in a way that Arthur will find more acceptable.
Sue wrote: "Bridget, I hope you’re wrong in your feelings about Arthur, but he does seem to be failing physically.I have been hoping that Doyce will return from his travels having made a major coup of some k..."
I hope I'm wrong too!! Its very possible I am wrong. Dickens often brings something in at the very end that makes everything okay.
I understand Arthur not accepting money from Amy. Would he take it from Doyce? I'm not sure his sense of honor would let him do that. I think he might take it from his mom, if someone could pry it from her cold hands. Personally, I would never leave my son in that awful place if I had the power to release him.
How heartbreaking that Arthur is failing physically but it is also emotionally. I got the feeling that he believes he loves Amy now but that had he realized it sooner, things could be different. I get the impression that he’s being chivalrous toward Amy in order for her to not be brought down again. He’s still trying to be stoic and not let his emotions just flow into expressions of love for her. Ho hum…..
I feel that Arthur is taking self sacrifice too far. If he loves Amy which I believe he does, he would allow her to help if, and we don’t know yet, the Dorrit fortune is safe.I’m sure Dickens meant us to cry over the scene with Amy and Arthur but tears didn’t spring into my eyes until the scene with Young John Chivery and Arthur at the end of the chapter. That was really touching.
Somehow Arthur must overcome the guilt he is feeling for losing Doyce’s money but how when he is rejecting and pushing away everyone who loves him and truly care about his well-being. We didn’t get any answers regarding the Dorrit fortune, but I’m thinking it must be safe.
Yes Fiona, that scene with young John is really moving. It is very sad that he will never be able to make his dream come true.
Isn’t that it telling that John’s last name is so similar to chivalry.
Yes, Sue, you are right, it cannot be a coincidence!
Yes, another perfect name by Dickens!
Link to Book 2 Chapter 30 SummaryWow! What a revealing chapter. All of it takes place at the Clennam House. It begins with Pancks, Baptista and Rigaud Blandois arriving there. They are all shown into the house, and then Pancks and Baptista are dismissed by Mrs. Clennam. The rest of the action happens in Mrs. Clennam’s room with Affrey, Flintwinch and Blandois in attendance as Mrs. Clennam begins to unravel the secrets she has kept for 40 years.
The Summary that Jean created is so thorough and wonderful, I’m encourage you to read it! Here is a list of what we discover in this chapter. If I’ve forgotten anything, please add it in.
1) Arthur’s father was a timid man, and the nephew of a “rigid old gentleman of strong force of character”. His marriage to Mrs. Clennam was arranged by this uncle – Gilbert Clennam.
2) The year before he married Mrs. Clennam, Arthur’s father had a secret relationship with a young woman who was a singer. That woman is Arthur’s true mother.
3) Mrs. Clennam found out about it by snooping around in her husband’s secret drawer and finding there a watch with the initials DNF and a letter explaining the letters meant Do Not Forget. Also she is filled with vengeance and believes God appointed her to find them so that she can be the method to correct the sin.
4) Mrs. Clennam forces Arthur’s father to “give her up to me, by her name and place of abode”. She then convinces this woman the only way to serve her penitence is to give up her child (Arthur) to be raised as Mr. and Mrs. Clennam’s child. She will never see her lover Mr. Clennam again either, and in exchange Mrs. Clennam will continue to financially support her.
5) Gilbert Clennam felt remorseful of his treatment of Arthur’s true mother and so towards the end of his life, he dictated a new Will – written down by Mrs. Clennam. This Will left 1,000 guineas to Arthur’s mother, and 1,000 guineas to the youngest daughter of her patron, or his youngest niece if he had not daughter.
6) Mr. Frederick Dorrit was the patron of Arthur’s mother. Amy Dorrit is his youngest niece.
7) Arhtur’s father and Flintwinch both knew about the suppression of this paper when Gilbert Cleannam died. Mrs. Clennam believed that paper was destroyed the night Arthur returned to London.
8) Flintwinch has a twin brother named Ephraim. He was hired by Mrs. Clennam to keep watch on Arthur’s mother in a lunatic asylum. She wrote letters to Mrs. Clennam for many years. Ephraim sent those letters to Flintwinch who kept them in a Black Box.
9) The night they were going to burn the old Will, Flintwinch switched it for another old, yellowed paper and placed the suppressed Will in the Black Box with the letters. He gave the Black Box to his brother and sent him off to Antwerp.
10) Rigaud Blandois met Ephriam in Antwerp, loosened his tongue with alcohol, and when Ephraim died he took the Black Box, read the contents and created this plan to blackmail Mrs. Clennam.
11) Rigaud Blandois has placed copies of the Will (and the letters??) with Amy Dorrit to be given to Arthur at the close of the Marshalsea in case Mrs. Clennam will not pay his price, in which case he will try to blackmail money from Amy Dorrit appealing to her desire to protect Arthur from the truth of his parentage.
Okay, I hope I’ve gotten this mostly right. I feel like I’m forgetting something. I’m a bit confused as to when Arthur’s father had the affair with the beautiful singer. It seems to me like it happened before he married Mrs. Clennam. I might be wrong about that.
I loved Affrey in this chapter. I was always worried for her safety, and I loved her dream additions. I also loved how as the truth comes out, Mrs. Clennam becomes more and more mobile. It starts with her hand, and by the end she is running down the street. It made me think of the old adage "The truth shall set you free". Maybe all those lies are what kept her in the wheelchair. And made Flintwinch all twisted too.
Mod
Excellent summary but I’m confused on one point. Mrs Clennam, relating the story of her conversation with Arthur’s mother, mentions the desecrated ceremony of marriage there had secretly been between them. I read this to mean that Arthur’s father had married Arthur’s mother which would mean that his later marriage to ‘Mrs Clennam’ was illegal, giving another reason for her to be blackmailed by Blandois. Was it not marriage then but a euphemism for an intimate relationship?
Fiona, I think that’s an excellent point and unclear in the writing. I read it as Arthur’s father having had a mistress and a child but also question that since Mr. Clennam somehow doesn’t seem like he would do that, except for the fact of his uncle’s expected disapproval. Bridget I love the description of Mrs. Clennam’s truth having physically set her free while imperiling her financially.
And I’m glad for Affery’s new-found strength of purpose.
Great to have some answers. I assumed that Arthur’s father wasn’t legally married to Arthur’s true mother, I think Mrs Clennam describes it as marriage because there is love and a child and neither of those exist in the her marriage.(but people would assume should be in a true marriage)And suddenly Affery has jumped from just talking about noises to saying there’s a woman kept in the house! Is it a person or a ghost?
“So much the worse,' said Affery, with a shiver, 'for she haunts the house, then. Who else rustles about it, making signals by dropping dust so softly? Who else comes and goes, and marks the walls with long crooked touches when we are all a-bed? Who else holds the door sometimes?”
Sounds like a physical presence to me.
This chapter was so full of reveals and too many at once to process well. But if I have time, I'd like to reread this chapter. Bridget, I love how you numbered everything in the summary. Fiona, the section you quoted implies to me that Arthur's father married his mother secretly but I'm not sure it is very clear. I had originally thought like Sue, that she was a mistress but now I'm not sure. It could be that his father married her before the required marriage to Mrs. Clennam without anyone knowing. Then he married again and Mrs. Clennam found out about the child.
Affery was spectacular and her senses are clear now and I do hope she can get out of that house.
Mrs. Clennam's newfound physical freedom was done wonderfully.
Janelle, It does seem as though someone may still be in the house making those noises. She assumed those noises were Arthur's real mother.
And shouldn't Arthur's father's fortune be passed to Arthur? Mrs. Clennam is really spineless - she says she was meant to be the avenue for repentance and money was not her motivator but her duty to her beliefs. That may be true, but when money is involved...
Could Pancks bringing up the "investment" again and how he thought it was sound and the numbers were good have any meaning?
Lori, glad you mentioned the investment. I think Pancks is trying to make everyone look on Arthur more forgivingly. But I wonder if this source of money problems has implications for Mrs. Clennam. She states this is not a good time for her to come up with the money Rigaud demands; she doesn’t have it. Did she invest too? This conversation was so convoluted, it was difficult to follow at times.
I found it interesting that Rigaud addressed himself by all three of the names he has used in this novel during this chapter.
I found this chapter a little confusing and I had to read it slowly. I think that the fact that Gilbert Clennam left money to the youngest daughter or niece of the patron of Arthur's true mother is a little strange. I would never have thought of something so complicated.
This chapter got me thinking about this line from waaaaaaay back at Chapter 2 "to meet and to act and react on one another, move all we restless travellers though the pilrimage of life"Its interesting how all these lives are intersecting. Arthur only meets Little Dorrit because Mrs. Clennam hires her. And Mrs. Clennam hires her because Arthur is coming home and she is worried he is going to discover what she did 40 years ago, so she wants the disinherited niece close by. Arthur suspects his mother is involved with the Dorrit family somehow, and he enlists Pancks help to unearth the secret. Pancks unearths an inheritance for Mr. Dorrit, but not the one we just found out about in this chapter for Little Dorrit.
But is the Pancks mystery completely solved? Did we ever get a resolution to that list he created? I keep thinking Mr. Casby might be involved too. Its strange that Mrs. Clennam wouldn't let Arthur marry Flora 20 years ago. Maybe they couldn't marry because they are related, through Arthur's true mother?
So many questions keep popping around in my head. I agree with everyone about the chapter being confusing. It helped me a lot to read through Jean's summary.
Good job Fiona, with the careful reading of the "desecrated marriage". I read that as a euphemism for an intimate relationship, but you might be right that Mr. Clennam married two women.
No wonder Arthur’s father spent 20 years in China. And no wonder Arthur eventually joined him. I imagine at some point Mrs. Clennam saw Arthur only as a reminder of the things she had been forced to do by her family or her “religion.”
Mod
LOL!
Link to Book 2 Chapter 31 SummaryMrs. Clennam uses her new found mobility to walk to the Marshalsea. She has a wild and unsteady look about her, and she attracts attention on her way. By the time she gets to the gates of the prison there is a crowd of people around her. Our gallant Young John rescues her, and leads her to the person she came to see; not Arthur, but Little Dorrit.
She has come to reclaim the packet left by Rigaud. Little Dorrit is a little frightened by Mrs. Clennam whose new mobility ”was unreal to look upon, as though a picture or statue had been animated”, but she hands her the packet. Mrs. Clennam gives her back a portion of it and asks her to read it. Mrs. Clennam says she will restore the money she withheld from Amy and asks for her forgiveness. True to her character, Little Dorrit forgives her immediately. Mrs. Clennam then launches into an explanation of her motives and reasons for the choices she made, citing her severe interpretation of Christianity as the reason. But Amy has another view of life ”angry feelings and unforgiving deeds are no comfort and no guide to you and me”.
Mrs. Clennam wants something else. She wants Amy to promise not to reveal this secret to Arthur until Mrs. Clennam is dead. Although she does tell Amy that if she ever thinks it is in Arthur’s best interest to know, she can then go ahead and tell him. Amy hesitates, but then agrees. She also wants Amy to return to the Clennam House with her to put an end to Blandois’s blackmail. This time Amy does not hesitate and the two women take off through the London streets heading back to House Clennam.
But just as they get there, a terrible, loud rumble is heard and moments before they step through the gate, the horrible, twisted, dilapidated house crumbles to the ground. Rigaud, who had been smoking in the window is buried beneath the rubble. Affrey had followed Mrs. Clennam to the prison, and is safely still returning from there. Flintwinch’s body is never found, and if rumors are believed true he converted securities to cash and fled to Amsterdam. And Mrs. Clennam……”she never from that hour moved so much as a finger again, or had the power to speak one word”
My goodness, the house entire house is gone! And Rigaud with it. I didn't anticipate Rigaud dying that way - but I do love how Dickens creates satisfying ends for his villians like this "before his head had shivered to atoms, like so much glass"I also really enjoyed the comparison between Amy's loving and compassionate view of Christianity and Mrs. Clennam's view of it has hell and damnation.
Great summary, Bridget. And yes, the house collapsing with Rigaud in it was unexpected! I’m finding aspects of these closing chapters a little too melodramatic but enjoying them nevertheless.
I was struck by the Christian imagery that infused so much of this chapter, and a bit surprised that it was so obvious. Somehow I think of Dickens as wearing his religious feelings more subtly. But the writing was, as usual, so well done. And the description of the fall of the house was almost “biblical” in its destruction, killing the man who seems to have been the most evil man in the story.
Yes, Sue, you’re right. The collapse of the house was almost ‘biblical’, as you say. I was also surprised by the Christian imagery but felt it was right for the character.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Bleak House (other topics)The Holly-Tree (other topics)
The Chimes (other topics)
Little Dorrit (other topics)
Dombey and Son (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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