Mr. Loverman: First Half, through Chapter 7

[Bretnie]

We'll split the discussion into two halves. This discussion will be for the first half, through Chapter 7, page 138.

I'm curious to hear everyone's impressions as the story starts off. Both of the characters, and the writing.

[Sam]

What works for me is the humor.

[Lark]

Bretnie, it's Evaristo's alchemy of a creation, Barrington Walker, that grips me from the beginning. He feels so complete and so alive. I love the way Evaristo used Barry's reporting of Morris's moods and habits as her vehicle to make known Barry's love for Morris. I know how much he loves this other man by the meticulous way he describes the other man's flaws.

[Bretnie]

Sam is it Barry's humor, or Benardine Evaristo's humor in the writing as a whole? I do find Barry quite funny and I was entralled with him as a character right from the beginning.

Carmel I wasn't sure about in the beginning. I felt sympathy for her, maybe a bit of pity, and also a bit of frustration with her views. I found it hard to sympathize with her views, but sympathized with the situation she was in (that she didn't at all understand), if that makes sense?

"I know how much he loves this other man by the meticulous way he describes the other man's flaws." lark - I love this perspective of Barry!

[Lark]

Bretnie I did feel a drop in energy, a disappointment, when Carmel took over in Chapter 2. I wonder if anyone else did (or if they were relieved, because they found Carmel a more compelling character?)

I'm almost always disappointed when the first-person point of view character breaks without warning in the second chapter. I love this novel but would have loved it more if it had stuck with Barry for the whole of it, and found a way to enlighten Carmel's character through Barry's voice. A challenge when he's so mean to her, but an interesting one.

If the point of view shifts and all the characters are written in 3rd person I have no similar bump in my attention level. I actually love this style, whether it's a narrative perspective that shifts from character to character in separate chapters, or whether it shifts more dynamically in a scene. One of my favorite examples that give characters their own chapters is Plainsong, and one that shifts within a chapter and is fairly contemporary is Ragtime.

[Sam]

Bretnie wrote: "Sam is it Barry's humor, or Benardine Evaristo's humor in the writing as a whole? I do find Barry quite funny and I was entralled with him as a character right from the beginning.

Carmel I wasn't ..."

I think Barry is the star of this show and Carmel's passages are partially a time to relax before the next Barry onslaught, but the humor is Evaristo's whether invested in Barry or not, in her characterization, her telling, her style. There is plenty of background situational humor going on aside from what comes from Barry.

This is an interesting novel when considering point of view Despite the two different points of view, this still seems to be wholly filtered through the character of Barry, since he carries such a strong presence. I understand Lark's comment about disappointment when the point of view changed, but I think the sustained Barry would have been tiring. Perhaps a third point of view from Morris would have been interesting and I am surprised Evaristo did not try this. (Perhaps she did and it did not work)

[Bretnie]

I'm so glad you both brought up the changing perspectives.

Second person in general kind of drives me crazy since I read it kind of literally - "you" meaning me. For this book I was able to mentally shift "you" to mean "Carmel" but it was work at first. I'd be curious why Evaristo chose that voice for Carmel. To put us in her shoes?

Sam, I like your thought that Carmel's chapters are a chance to relax. I think as the story unfolds, the book tries to be not just be Barry's story, even though it's mostly through his perspective.

[Lark]

Sam wrote: "I understand Lark's comment about disappointment when the point of view changed, but I think the sustained Barry would have been tiring. ..."

This makes complete sense to me, Sam. Thanks. It makes me appreciate the book more to have this idea in my head.

[Nadine in California]

Bretnie wrote: "I'm so glad you both brought up the changing perspectives.

Second person in general kind of drives me crazy since I read it kind of literally - "you" meaning me. For this book I was able to menta..."

Carmel's chapters (many fewer than Barry's) made a big difference for me - here's what I wrote in my review. Apologies for self-quoting, but my brain is too mushy to think it over again ;)

"At first I drew the line at his callous humor towards his long-suffering wife Carmel, but the addition of a few chapters devoted to her totally changed the equation. I love the way these chapters were written - a third person narrator speaks honestly and lovingly to Carmel, baring her heart to the reader and to Carmel herself, turning her from a caricature into a complex and fully formed human. It's telling that the chapters Barry narrates all begin with "The Art of .....", emphasizing the artifice of his narration, while Carmel's chapters begin with "Song of...." emphasizing feeling, and alluding to the most beautiful parts of her beloved book, The Bible. It was lovely that I could reach the end of the booking feeling love for both Barry and Carmel."

[Bretnie]

Thanks for that perspective Nadine - that makes me appreciate the Carmel chapters a lot more. Well said - very speaky spokey :)

I'd love to explore the feelings you had for both of them over in the full book discussion.

[Hugh]

It may not be obvious to anyone listening to the audio, but Carmel's chapters are all written in verse, which may help explain why they are "Songs".

[Nadine in California]

Hugh wrote: "It may not be obvious to anyone listening to the audio, but Carmel's chapters are all written in verse, which may help explain why they are "Songs"."

!!!!! How did I miss this? Thanks Hugh!

I finished the book a few weeks ago, but my awe for Evaristo and this book is growing. Brittany, I'm also so looking forward to hearing about people's feelings about Carmel and Barry- they are become more and more complex to me.

I don't remember when it takes place in the book, but there's a very brief scene where Barry recounts an adult ed class he took that involved a feminism-related discussion that is SO funny. I'm looking forward to talking about when it appears in our reading timeline :)

[Bretnie]

I'm failing as a discussion leader since I can't remember what's happened by the halfway mark, ha! Barry's views on feminism were on my list of things to talk about, so I'm gonna post a few questions over on the full book thread.

Hugh, I did the audiobook (which I loved!) and missed that also! Thanks for pointing it out!

[Suzy]

Great discussion. I'm loving the humor and the pathos. These people seem very real to me, fully formed and truly human in all that means.

I am listening and was thrown off initially when Robin Miles starts narrating in the third person, but I am glad for Carmel's perspective. I've actually started to think that it is Carmel addressing herself with the "you" vs. another person commenting.

Thanks, Hugh, for pointing out how the Carmel chapters are formatted and differ from the ones that Barry is narrating. I will pick up a print copy from the library on Monday so I have that view.

[Bretnie]

What were people's early impressions of Carmel and Barry's daughters?

If people are ready to discuss the whole book without spoilers, I started a few questions on the full thread.

[Catherine]

Suzy wrote: " am listening and was thrown off initially when Robin Miles starts narrating in the third person, but I am glad for Carmel's perspective. I've actually started to think that it is Carmel addressing herself with the "you" vs. another person commenting. ..."

I agree that she's talking to herself!