Hardboiled American Crime and Worldwide Noir Fiction discussion
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Hardboiled Nominations
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Nominations for October 2021 Group Read
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I think it might be time to add some diversity to our readings. No, I'm not going to nominate a female author. I'm not sure any ever wrote a hard-boiled novel. I'm thinking instead of Chester Himes' book A Rage in Harlem. I'm surprised to discover this is actually the first novel in a nine-part series.
I will nominate an alternative: The French Key Mystery by Frank Gruber. It's the first in a series of 14 novels starring Johnny Fletcher, a smooth talking con man, and his muscular friend Sam Cragg. The only drawback is there is no kindle version available. Used copies cost $10-14 each for the least expensive ten copies for sale, including shipping but not tax. I think it's worth it. These are forgotten classics.
I would like to nominate four options...
All are classics in this field, but are very different. Equally you can split them over months if you prefer?
1. Black Wings has my Angel by Elliot Chaze, a 1950s classic and a thoroughly electrifying read.
2. The Virgin Kills by Raoul Whitfield, A 1932 classic, the style and writing captures the feel of the time.
3. Fadeout by Joseph Hansen, and a great introduction to his work. This is the first Dave Brandstetter novel.
4. Get Carter by Ted Lewis, Ted Lewis is a more modern-ish writer but a giant in the field of British gangster novels. This was made into a classic movie in the sixties / early seventies and the book truly has no limits. A great read and great intro to his work.
All are classics in this field, but are very different. Equally you can split them over months if you prefer?
1. Black Wings has my Angel by Elliot Chaze, a 1950s classic and a thoroughly electrifying read.
2. The Virgin Kills by Raoul Whitfield, A 1932 classic, the style and writing captures the feel of the time.
3. Fadeout by Joseph Hansen, and a great introduction to his work. This is the first Dave Brandstetter novel.
4. Get Carter by Ted Lewis, Ted Lewis is a more modern-ish writer but a giant in the field of British gangster novels. This was made into a classic movie in the sixties / early seventies and the book truly has no limits. A great read and great intro to his work.
To help you along here is the link to my review of Black Wings, the rest I read prior to joining GR.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Those all look like fine nominations. Thanks so much, Douglas. Since we have a max of two nominations per nominator, I'll spread yours out over the next two months.Welcome to the hardboiled group. We're quieter than many groups, but passionate about the literature. Cheers!
Dan wrote: "Those all look like fine nominations. Thanks so much, Douglas. Since we have a max of two nominations per nominator, I'll spread yours out over the next two months.
Welcome to the hardboiled group..."
Okay I wanna add my book as well, initially as you can decide which of the rest to add.
'Seventeen words for Rain' has all the key elements of a good clever Noir story. From the Anti-hero Johnny Jewel, the bad girl 'Maizey' and the wild card (you need to read the book to work out who that is)
And it is set on a dark universe, albeit a imploding Sci-fi world almost in the style of Blade Runner, which is itself a Noir film.
Welcome to the hardboiled group..."
Okay I wanna add my book as well, initially as you can decide which of the rest to add.
'Seventeen words for Rain' has all the key elements of a good clever Noir story. From the Anti-hero Johnny Jewel, the bad girl 'Maizey' and the wild card (you need to read the book to work out who that is)
And it is set on a dark universe, albeit a imploding Sci-fi world almost in the style of Blade Runner, which is itself a Noir film.
How about, 13 Shots of Noir by Paul D. Brazill? The book is an anthology of different noir authors, but it’s contemporary, so it may not qualify. 🤷🏽♀️
Zain wrote: "How about, 13 Shots of Noir by Paul D. Brazill? The book is an anthology of different noir authors, but it’s contemporary, so it may not qualify. 🤷🏽♀️"
Personally if it fits the ideal and not the timeline then i dont have an issue with it, depends how Dan feels but sounds like a good one to me just going by the title.
Although I mentioned Bladerunner recently so technically "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by PK Dick should also be an option?
Personally if it fits the ideal and not the timeline then i dont have an issue with it, depends how Dan feels but sounds like a good one to me just going by the title.
Although I mentioned Bladerunner recently so technically "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by PK Dick should also be an option?
When I started this group, I thought most of the works would be from 1920 to 1960. But I have come to realize hardboiled fiction is still being written. What hardboiled fiction is not is a branch of speculative fiction, meaning SF, fantasy, or horror with supernatural elements prominent. I would therefore not want to consider Blade Runner or Do Androids Dream for this group. Black Mask didn't run those kind of stories and they're mainstream, still discussed extremely frequently in other groups.
Dan the Man has spoken! :)
I can see his point though would ask the question, have you read it?
The reason I say is that, yes their is a Sci-fi element but the core is pure hardboiled in relation to Decker. You would remove the Sci-fi elements and you would have a 1940s detective novel.
I can see his point though would ask the question, have you read it?
The reason I say is that, yes their is a Sci-fi element but the core is pure hardboiled in relation to Decker. You would remove the Sci-fi elements and you would have a 1940s detective novel.
I have read the book. Not a fan, but that's because of the gaping plot holes, not the noir elements. It is science fiction. Asimov often borrowed from the mystery genre in some of his Robot mysteries. Still science fiction. Some may want to include speculative fiction. Then that is speculative fiction with noirish elements, but it is not noir or hardboiled fiction. Widening to include such works would be another group, one called "All Fiction of Any Genre That Uses Any Noir Convention At All" maybe. That group's name and scope would be very different from this one.
I believe there is enough straight hardboiled fiction published that we can enjoy.
Dan wrote: "I have read the book. Not a fan, but that's because of the gaping plot holes, not the noir elements. It is science fiction. Asimov often borrowed from the mystery genre in some of his Robot mysteri..."
LOL!
Are we forming a group called "All Fiction of Any Genre That Uses Any Noir Convention At All"? Love that title :)
Brilliant stuff!
What about? "All fiction that has a strong or weird sexual element even if it is not considered adult or is merely the usual shapeshifter animal sex that is still popular?" Great title for another group, whatcha think?
LOL!
Are we forming a group called "All Fiction of Any Genre That Uses Any Noir Convention At All"? Love that title :)
Brilliant stuff!
What about? "All fiction that has a strong or weird sexual element even if it is not considered adult or is merely the usual shapeshifter animal sex that is still popular?" Great title for another group, whatcha think?
I just want to say, re. Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep, the movie Blade Runner seems Noir, visuals and darkness. But the book is really not noir. In the book, the androids are called Andys. Not Replicints. Just a funny difference.I've never read Get Carter, just heard of the movie but never saw it. Raul Whitfield intrigues me. He was a writer for Black Mask. I have a book of his called Green Ice (I think). But I haven't read it yet.
Carla Remy wrote: "I just want to say, re. Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep, the movie Blade Runner seems Noir, visuals and darkness. But the book is really not noir. In the book, the androids are called Andys. ..."
Its been a long time since I have read Blade Runner, so would need to read it again before commenting in depth.
Get Carter is modern-ish (60s), but the ultimate Anti-hero story for me. As for Raoul, he is a man of that time, i have read three of his books and they have the authentic feel of that time.
If we choose Get Carter it might be worth while including the orig movie as part of the read?
Its been a long time since I have read Blade Runner, so would need to read it again before commenting in depth.
Get Carter is modern-ish (60s), but the ultimate Anti-hero story for me. As for Raoul, he is a man of that time, i have read three of his books and they have the authentic feel of that time.
If we choose Get Carter it might be worth while including the orig movie as part of the read?
Carla Remy wrote: "I just want to say, re. Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep, the movie Blade Runner seems Noir, visuals and darkness. But the book is really not noir. In the book, the androids are called Andys. ..."
My other two choices are just as strong.
Okay, Joe Hansen is more of a tradition PI novel but it is an exceptional read and Black Wings is the finest Noir novel I have ever read.
Even better than Paul Cain, which is a big tribute from me.
My other two choices are just as strong.
Okay, Joe Hansen is more of a tradition PI novel but it is an exceptional read and Black Wings is the finest Noir novel I have ever read.
Even better than Paul Cain, which is a big tribute from me.
Douglas wrote: "LOL! Are we forming a group called "All Fiction of Any Genre That Uses Any Noir Convention At All"? Love that title :)"No thanks! I started this group instead.
If you go up to the community tab, hit groups, and search on "noir", 51 groups pop up in the results. One in particular, Literary Darkness, has almost 4000 members. It sounds like they, and perhaps twenty more, could easily rename themselves to the above name. None have any but one or two of the books we have on our bookshelf on their bookshelf. But many of them have a lot of overlap with each other.
Black Wings Has My Angel is excellent. I only read it once so I want to read it again. I have never even heard of Okay Joe.
Carla Remy wrote: "Black Wings Has My Angel is excellent. I only read it once so I want to read it again. I have never even heard of Okay Joe."
LOL .. OKay Joe should have been
Okay, Joe
IE starting a discussion on Joseph Hansen one of my suggestions.
He wrote the Dave Branstetter series?
But he doesnt really fit the bill as much moreof a straight PI type book.
LOL .. OKay Joe should have been
Okay, Joe
IE starting a discussion on Joseph Hansen one of my suggestions.
He wrote the Dave Branstetter series?
But he doesnt really fit the bill as much moreof a straight PI type book.
I would like to read Get Carter. I've seen the film and wouldn't mind seeing it again. Michael Caine is great in it. - Marie
Hi Marie
Get Carter is going to be in the Other Sides of Noir selection as it is too modern for the classic zone, so the votes should begin on the 15th or 16th and we can take it from there.
The movie is one of my favorites, was considering Bullitt also since the movie was that good, does the book match it, is there a book?
Just checked Bullit it is a 1977 book so will suggest that Novembers list methinks? And we can have the film watch as a extra if people want?
For me, Get Carter was Caine's finest performance, and it is a film that will never be made as close to the book again. It is too dark and gritty for the modern PC age alas.
Even the soundtrack is exceptional.
I probably should not admit this but I stole the train journey start from the film as the beginning of my own ongoing foray into Noir writing.
Remember your choices and thoughts are welcome on what to read are welcome also. But do add them to the Other Side of Noir zone if you can?
Regards
Get Carter is going to be in the Other Sides of Noir selection as it is too modern for the classic zone, so the votes should begin on the 15th or 16th and we can take it from there.
The movie is one of my favorites, was considering Bullitt also since the movie was that good, does the book match it, is there a book?
Just checked Bullit it is a 1977 book so will suggest that Novembers list methinks? And we can have the film watch as a extra if people want?
For me, Get Carter was Caine's finest performance, and it is a film that will never be made as close to the book again. It is too dark and gritty for the modern PC age alas.
Even the soundtrack is exceptional.
I probably should not admit this but I stole the train journey start from the film as the beginning of my own ongoing foray into Noir writing.
Remember your choices and thoughts are welcome on what to read are welcome also. But do add them to the Other Side of Noir zone if you can?
Regards
I Am Was WRONG. I have maligned Paul Cain! Laughter Came Screaming is by Henry Kane. All this time I was confused. Now I totally want to read Fast One. I adore violence as long as it's not directed towards pets.
LOL! Carla, you sound like my wife, she enjoys reading about serial killers but if any harms an animal she will never read anything about them again.
Murdering humans is always fine though apparently! :)
Murdering humans is always fine though apparently! :)
I heard he wrote the original on squid ink. Which was probably painful for the squid?
These authors are all new to me, so I would like the experience of reading them. Just can’t decide who to vote for.Maybe if I had a chocolate 🍫 I could definitely decide quickly. 🤔
Zain
Zain wrote: "These authors are all new to me, so I would like the experience of reading them. Just can’t decide who to vote for.
Maybe if I had a chocolate 🍫 I could definitely decide quickly. 🤔
Zain"
What about if one of the books was made of chocolate, I presume that would help? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKqg...
Maybe if I had a chocolate 🍫 I could definitely decide quickly. 🤔
Zain"
What about if one of the books was made of chocolate, I presume that would help? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKqg...
ooh they filmed Get Carter where I live. There's even a pie shop called Get Carter's Pies.
Jazzy wrote: "ooh they filmed Get Carter where I live. There's even a pie shop called Get Carter's Pies."
Its a great name for a pie shop, are the streets still the same? What parts of the film?
They tore down the multi-story car park down from the film, even though there was a petition to keep it as a national landmark.
What did you think of the film and have you read the book?
Its a great name for a pie shop, are the streets still the same? What parts of the film?
They tore down the multi-story car park down from the film, even though there was a petition to keep it as a national landmark.
What did you think of the film and have you read the book?
I was at the carpark the last day it was open to the public. Some of the street scenes were filmed in Blyth, and I lived close to there in Seaton Sluice, so been there a few times. Blyth is still falling apart, sadly.
Back to the carpark, it is featured in Purely Belter, the film based on the book The Season Ticket by local author Jonathan Tulloch
Jazzy wrote: "I was at the carpark the last day it was open to the public.
Some of the street scenes were filmed in Blyth, and I lived close to there in Seaton Sluice, so been there a few times. Blyth is still..."
If it wins on the reading vote she should have a film screening and a guided tour to follow?
The idea that Blyth is falling apart very much fits with the book though, that idea of post war ruins that I remember so well from growing up in Glasgow.
Some of the street scenes were filmed in Blyth, and I lived close to there in Seaton Sluice, so been there a few times. Blyth is still..."
If it wins on the reading vote she should have a film screening and a guided tour to follow?
The idea that Blyth is falling apart very much fits with the book though, that idea of post war ruins that I remember so well from growing up in Glasgow.
I can’t think of anything I want to nominate this time, so I’ll leave all the hard work for you guys.Just let me know when you’ve selected the nominations. I’ll be sure to vote for something.
Zain 😎
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Hardboiled American Crime and Worldwide Noir...
Books mentioned in this topic
The Season Ticket (other topics)Fast One (other topics)
The French Key Mystery (other topics)
A Rage in Harlem (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jonathan Tulloch (other topics)Frank Gruber (other topics)
Chester Himes (other topics)
Dashiell Hammett (other topics)
Our group has been going for one year now and we have read ten works without repeating an author. I mention this because our first author from October 2020, Dashiell Hammett, comes back into play for this October if anyone wants to nominate another of his works.