Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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The Prophets
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Discussion: The Prophets
I’m excited that this book got chosen too! I’ve been wanting to read it since it came out. Looking forward to your discussion questions.
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https://centerforfiction.org/book-rec...
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Great. Good to hear.
This book is my current read. I am so interested in hearing the thoughts of others.
Some chapter names correspond to books of the bible. I am interested in knowing why. I've figured out a few, I am still pondering others.
Just snagged my copy! Looking forward to discussing it
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Fantastic, Henessy! Jump into the discussion when you can.
Hi all. Luckily, my library has a copy of this book. I look forward to discussing it with y’all. This will be my first time joining a book discussion in this (or any) Goodreads group. I’m looking forward to the experience :)
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Ok Alisha, I’m gonna hold you to it. Haha Glad you’ll be joining in.
I have to hold off--I have a big pile to get through, including some by authors of colour, that will be due back at the library by the end of August (or before) but perhaps someday I will get to it :)!
I just grabbed this from the library today, I had never heard of this book and am excited to start. The topic is an important one, so I do hope it is handled with care. Interesting to see that many of the negative reviews for this on GoodReads seem to be White men and women saying it was unauthentic...looking forward to seeing what that's all about lol.
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What? Are you serious? I need to check them out. Curious to get more into the book to see if I understand what they’re talking about. So far I don’t.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Anna wrote: "I just grabbed this from the library today, I had never heard of this book and am excited to start. The topic is an important one, so I do hope it is handled with care. Interesting to ..."Yes, and it looks like someone else in the reviews called it out, too! It really does look like most of the reviews under 3 stars were given by non-POC. Make of that what you will lol.
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Wow! Some of these reviews sound both personal and borderline racist. There’s nothing here to say you can’t like a book but you know trouble is approaching when you get the “ I’m not racist but…” or “I know if I say this I’ll be accused of racism, but…” Problematic. I really thought about commenting on one or two but why bother.
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I enjoyed this book so much! Despite enslavement, the characters lead vibrant lives full of joy and incredible strength. I will never forget Maggie for as long as I live.The homoeroticism is so beautifully described!
Several chapters in now, and so far this book is breathtaking. It honestly feels like I am not supposed to be reading this, like I've intruded on someone's deeam or diary.
I caught Geronimo Johnson among others at a Hurston-Wright online reading. He remarked during the Q&A session how people far too often come to a work by a writer of color looking for "a benevolent mirror." Perhaps that's the issue these critics are having with Robert's work. It doesn't let them off the hook.
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Maybe that’s Jedah I don’t know. Really puzzling to know the reason. It seems to run deeper than just a simple dislike for the book. At times it seems a little personal. Also, like a concerted effort to go for him.
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What do you think the title means in relation to this story? In the Bible, Isaiah and Samuel are prophets, men considered to be proclaimers of the will of God. A love like Samuel and Isaiah’s is not without consequences. The couple refuse to participate in the plantation’s capitalistic structure by creating babies the master can then sell.
Our babies today are being killed by police, or put into mass jail institutions that is owned by white profit corporations. African Americans still participate in this capitalistic society today.
Not sure how to reply directly to someone, I apologize. To answer the previous question regarding biblical references, I don’t know much about the Bible and have a feeling I may be missing some important references. As soon as I start to get attached to a character the next one sweeps in. However, I do enjoy how the story is moving along thus far and the different perspectives.
The book's on a three week waiting list at my local library, but this discussion is already quite good! I heard a podcast last year about Martha P. Johnson, the Stonewall Riots and the LGBTQ movement. It ended with a reflection on how Black people will start a form of resistance; which if co-opted by white people, that Black person or people will get pushed to the background and not get their due. I haven't read the bad reviews yet, but maybe the animosity lies in the audacity of two enslaved Black men expressing love for each other?
ColumbusReads wrote: "I’m not sure why I’m asking this but I’ll do it anyway. I say that because I’m really glad this book was selected book of the month for August and I would like to lead it myself. Like i’m really, r..."I agree. I have both the audio and eBook versions. Already got me engaged and going hm.
BernieMck wrote: "Some chapter names correspond to books of the bible. I am interested in knowing why. I've figured out a few, I am still pondering others."Exactly. I knew that when I saw the chapters that these are same ones in the Bible. What are your thoughts on this in correspondence to the reading? I am curious now. I am up to Maggie.
Everett wrote: "What do you think the title means in relation to this story? In the Bible, Isaiah and Samuel are prophets, men considered to be proclaimers of the will of God. A love like Samuel and Isaiah’s is n..."
Wow. I thought this too; that they do not want to be baby-producing men, to see their master(s) profiting off their very own seed. I wasn't sure if this love, sexual scenes, were just a way a freedom to get away from their daily duties and work. There was a part where they were speaking about fixing the roof, but the other one was like, no it will take care of itself in so many words and lets get on with us.
Both names are prophets--heading of the chapter. Yes! I wondered did male slaves also do this, get together, since their women were raped and im-pregnanted by their masters too which could do something to them psychologically, mentally, emotionally, etc.
In the chapter, Psalms, I have known this to be told from King David point of view in the Bible--one of my favorites, since it is refreshing, refocusing on the things that matter, and rejoicing in the sense of gratitude of the goodness of the Creator (YHWH). However, in this novel, I see the distress of the two men: Isaiah and Samuel, with the wilt of slavery and trying to be together as one. Passage (paraphrased in parts): "...survival, everything that was learned had to be transmitted by circling the thing rather than uncovering it." (We rather talk or move around the issue than revealing and unleashing its secrets, or the actual thing.) "...quiet--inherited, because it was safe, but containing the ability to cause destruction." Do we know when silence is golden, and when to speak and not to be silent?
Read through to page 79 (chapter “Genesis”). What’s the next place we are to read to, and by when?I would love to hear input from those familiar with the Bible headings that serve as the chapters’ names. Thank you, Everett, for that insight. I do believe Samuel and Isaiah are the true prophets, not Amos.
I love the Black elders’ natural reactions to S & I’s relationship is that of acceptance and even encouragement. They love to see two people finding joy in spite of being enslaved. Deep down, all the other enslaved Black people know they want to find the same thing in their life.
I find it powerful that only ones turning on S & I are those seeking relief/favor from the masters. This is a common occurrence, even in contemporary Black community. Those uncomfortable with themselves and/or their life situation will seek to “other” and ostracize others in the community, for a chance to climb the social ladder and become part of (or closer to) the dominant group.
Adrienna, that is a great quote. Although it was spoken in terms of recalling memories, I feel it also applies to how the Black elders respond to S & I’s relationship. In terms of some stories I’ve read from some Black LGBTQ+, they’ve stated that when they came out to their friends/families, some responded “yeah I already knew”. It seems that is a common action: being silent and not speaking directly about something, even when it’s obvious.
So that’s a good question. Is our tendency to not want to talk directly about things a flaw? Is it harmful? When should we speak up/face things head-on, and when should we be silent/tip-toe around a matter?
In S & I’s case, I feel that the silence they get from their elders’ (prior to Amos’s propaganda) is not condemning, so is fine. S & I need no validation or approval to have/continue their relationship… so any open discussion in the community would be irrelevant (and possibly harmful if the overseers’ overhear).
However, the elders’ silence while S & I are being ostracized would be problematic. Some do speak up against Amos, asking what’s so wrong about S & I’s relationship, and I love it. Amos, even while confused by the idea of homosexuality, cannot say with certainty that anything is wrong with their relationship. His only/greatest argument against it is just in the lens of the white masters getting upset.
Are there any other quotes that really stuck out to y’all? Later, I will (hopefully) type out some of my favorite quotes so far. But I have a bunch of highlights on my kindle edition of the book lol. So I have to try and pare it down to just a few :)
I do have one critique about the book. I’m not sure how to describe it, so help me out, if you understand what I mean. The “build up”, or how it transitions to reveal something, is lacking.[SPOILER AHEAD]
For example, the fact that Amos is the person that carried Isaiah off the wagon. I feel like that was a BIG reveal, yet got revealed basically mid-sentence. No buildup/weak transition.
Another example, when Amos found S & I together in the barn. There’s no mention of Amos actually WALKING TO the barn. The way the paragraph begins is as a omnipresent narrator speaking to us readers, describing how the barn looks, S&I tangled together, etc. It takes me a second to realize that Amos is there and that’s what he’s seeing.
That’s the best way I can describe it. It jumps from scene to scene too quickly.
Alisha wrote: "I do have one critique about the book. I’m not sure how to describe it, so help me out, if you understand what I mean. The “build up”, or how it transitions to reveal something, is lacking.[SPOIL..."
So you are saying no continuity.
Alisha wrote: "Read through to page 79 (chapter “Genesis”). What’s the next place we are to read to, and by when?I would love to hear input from those familiar with the Bible headings that serve as the chapters..."
Amos was considered a lower prophet than names like Samuel and Isaiah were major ones. In the Bible, there were other major ones like Moses, etc.
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-Judges through Amos - pages 1-79 til Aug 6th
-Genesis through Balm In Gilead - page 173 til Aug 11th
(we just gonna skip over Leviticus for obvious reasons -kidding)
-Romans through Bel and the Dragon - page 246 til Aug 19th
Entire book open August 20th!
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Exactly. I knew that when I saw the cha..."
I’m finding Maggie’s character really fascinating thus far and can’t wait to find out more about her.
Paul renamed his slaves and gave them biblical names so there is no mystery in their names for me. I am interested in exploring the chapters that are named for books of the bible that are not the names of slaves. I have an idea about some of them and I would like to hear the opinions of others. Like Judges, Proverbs, Psalms, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Babel, Balm in Gilead etc. Ive read the book but I am rereading just to look for parallels between chapter titles and their biblical references. Any thoughts are welcomed.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Adrienna wrote: "BernieMck wrote: "Some chapter names correspond to books of the bible. I am interested in knowing why. I've figured out a few, I am still pondering others."Exactly. I knew that w..."
According to the author, Maggie is most people's favorite character. The author's favorite character is King Akusa, his favorite chapter to write, was Puah.
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Is that right. Wow, thanks for that bit of information. Looking forward to the King Akusa character and the Puah chapter. The “Maggie” chapter is by far my favorite so far.
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As I read on and on, the “benevolent mirror” term seem so apropos. Seriously. I can also see why many conservatives are so afraid of the 1619 Project and want to falsely label it revisionist history
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Adrienna wrote: "Alisha wrote: "Read through to page 79 (chapter “Genesis”). What’s the next place we are to read to, and by when?I would love to hear input from those familiar with the Bible headings that serve ..."
I know a prophet to be someone who proclaims a divine revelation. I do not see Samuel or Isaiah in this role. In this book I think the ancestors are the prophets. I & S did not speak to anyone about what was going on with them. They kept it to themselves
The Author SpeaksAt point 55:30 in the video, is where the question was asked about biblical chapter titles. This might be helpful in figuring out the relations of some of the titles to the bible. It's very interesting to know the Maggie is a reference to Mary Magdalene, one of Jesus' loyal followers.
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At point 55:30 in the video, is where the question was asked about biblical chapter titles. This might be helpful in figuring out the relations of some of the titles to the bible..."
I love early in this video where Brit asks Robert how he arrived at the Samuel and Isaiah relationship and she said “the two of them… Which one will pick up on immediately when Maggie used it in the book. I was unsure how she actually felt about them when she said that. It appeared a little opaque to me. I didn’t know if it was a derisive or mocking statement or what.
Maggie is definitely the most interesting and fleshed out character so far, in my opinion.I also do find the writing “flowery” and poetic, but not to a fault. I think it adds to the story, not detracts from it.
I see, BernieMck. Since prophets must speak their message, I see why S&I are probably not the prophets then.
I believe the ancestors are the ones speaking in the chapters Judges and Genesis ? (That’s as far as I’ve read). I’m trying to figure out who they are speaking to, S&I or us (the readers).
I agree with you on who is speaking in the chapters you’ve named. Prophecies can be for 1 person or many. In those two chapters I think the ancestors are speaking to all their African descendants, which includes S & I and us.
Adrienna wrote: "Alisha wrote: "Read through to page 79 (chapter “Genesis”). What’s the next place we are to read to, and by when?I would love to hear input from those familiar with the Bible headings that serve ..."
The difference between Major and Minor prophets is the length of their books in the Bible. Amos is 9 chapters, I and ll Samuel total 55 chapters and Isaiah is 66 chapters.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Reading schedule:-Judges through Amos - pages 1-79 til Aug 6th
-Genesis through Balm In Gilead - page 173 til Aug 11th
(we just gonna skip over Leviticus for obvious reasons -kidding)
-Romans th..."
I'm reading the eBook and listening to audiobook. Of course the pages differ, however, I have to complete Amos chapter by August 6th, right?
ColumbusReads wrote: "BernieMck wrote: "ColumbusReads wrote: "Adrienna wrote: "BernieMck wrote: "Some chapter names correspond to books of the bible. I am interested in knowing why. I've figured out a few, I am still po..."What makes Maggie the most fave character? I just finished it, and hm, it was cool but unsure who's my favorite at this point. Essie, is my great-gran's name, so seeing a little interest in her.
If anyone would like to lead the discussion for THE PROPHETS, please let me know. Thanks