Initial Impressions: Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry-June/July 2021

[Lori]

Ok Diane, apparently I’ve met Janey, Roscoe’s young girl. I liked her when she said she took the big pan and whacked old Sam’s rheumatic knees so he’d stay still for a few days!

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Yes, Roscoe did seem to stumble into some very strange situations. And people.

[Cathrine ☯️]

At this point I'm wondering how these people didn't lose all their teeth to scurvy eating nothing but cornbread, bacon, and beans. Their gum tissue must have been a hot mess.

[Cathrine ☯️]

Louisa & Janey will hold their own in the female literary characters hall of fame, lol!

[Lori]

Ch 56 is brilliant! Loved Gus here and McMurtry’s excellent converging of these characters. Oh boy. I have errands to run and really don’t want to put this down right now!

[Sara]

I really need my head examined, but I have started reading this again. I cannot stand reading your conversation and not the book. It takes a pretty good book to weigh in at 900 pages and still tempt a reader to read it for the third time!

Not sure I can catch you guys, I have so much on my plate right now, but I could not resist any longer. BTW, it helps that I have Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones speaking the lines in my head. Best book and film match up EVER.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I agree with that statement Sara. All of the actors were perfect in their roles. I am thrilled to be reading this again, just getting lost in that time and place. I had to drive my husband to pick up a car he had bought yesterday. One hour up, one hour back, another hour messing around with it, three hours of not reading put me in a snit, but I wisely didn't complain since he can't understand how I read so much anyway. I suppose there are other things that are important, lol.
I just stopped at part three, but noticed Clara's name on the following page, so now I'm raring to go again. Like you Lori, I have some things to do, but its hard to stop.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Catherine, in some of the character's descriptions, they DIDN'T have teeth, or those they did have were black. But a healthy diet was the least of their troubles.

[Lori]

Yay, Sara! I'm so glad you've decided to read with us! You can put this one on your Reread challenge list for this year!

Diane, I do feel your agony when you are out that much time from reading! Reading is just as important as any thing else! I joke to my family when I get Jeopardy answers because I read it in a book! Eye rolls from them! My husband's job has him away from home for 3-4 days each week and the remaining 3-4 days he's home the entire time (no going in to an office or anything!) It makes finding huge chunks of reading time harder because I spend time watching Netflix or whatever with him and doing other things. I've learned to use my AirPods when he's watching his Youtube videos but I don't like it usually. I love to read when it's quiet! In fact I rarely turn on the tv when he's gone!

Now, back to the cattle trail...

[Cathrine ☯️]

Is this the moment when we admit to putting in our airpods with nothing playing so our husbands think we’re “busy” and can’t hear what they’re saying? 🤣

[Cathrine ☯️]

Sara I look forward to any comments you add no matter where you’re at in the book.

[Cathrine ☯️]

As of this evening, in pages turned, I’m officially 1/2 way through Texas 😅

[Connie]

I'm up to Chapter 20, and loving the humor. The characters are wonderful--they all have some flaws, but have a strong or vulnerable side to them.

[Cathrine ☯️]

Up to Ch 60 and the serious turn of events. I love how even the minor characters are so vividly (and sometimes tragically) portrayed. They all make their memorable impact in this story. And though McMurtry rationalizes the choices Gus makes,(view spoiler)[it did not ring true to me that he would not more strongly insist Lori return back to camp with him after Blue Ducks appearance. A small tick but it sticks out a bit because everything else rings the bell. It certainly makes for great drama. Or perhaps it's Lori's decision to stay out there all alone under the circumstances after Gus' warning. But then again, these people are a breed apart. (hide spoiler)]

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

What surprises me over and over again is how these people keep coming across each other on the plains, which is a vast area in miles. I know there were trails that they followed, but I'm a person who would turn right instead of left and just go in circles. Less population in the towns too, but somehow everyone knew everyone else and where they might be.
Glad to see you reading with us Connie, the humor continues even when things turn more serious.

[Cathrine ☯️]

Diane I have wondered about that anytime I've read books or seen movies of this time period which depict how people stayed in touch if you will, or were tracked without today's cookies and technology. I guess they pretty much stuck to the ant trails and did not deviate for fear of getting lost or murdered out in those vast open spaces without convenience stores and GPS. It boggles my mind.

[Lori]

Catherine as far as your spoiler and Gus' decision (view spoiler)[I think he gave her the option and let her choose. He doesn't have any hold over her, even though he is the most loving toward her of all the men. Gus will now live with his not forcing her to come with him to their camp and I think he'll always believe he made the wrong choice to let her stay alone. As far as Blue Duck goes, Gus admitted himself that he's been out of the rangering and bad guy business for way too long and he's gone a bit soft. (hide spoiler)]

I think this type of lifestyle is so far beyond anything we can imagine it's like it's not even real. I'd say it was pretty common for folks to hear things and pass events by word of mouth. Sometimes a person would send a written message with another passerby or whomever was heading the direction they needed to get the message to hoping they'd get it. It's definitely crazy to think how far we've come in really not very long - 150 or so years.

Connie - glad you're joining in! This is such a richly character filled novel and they are all flawed as you say. McMurtry has written them very authentically.

[Laura, "The Tall Woman"]

Shooting for Monday to start but I’m still looking forward to it. Thank goodness we have 2 months.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Just imagine staying behind when someone you love heads west, and never knowing what happens, or hearing about a death months or years after it happened. Yet these cowboys seemed to take death for granted, not that they didn't care, but it was just a fact that life was a dangerous thing.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

You will love this Laura. Excited for you to join in.

[Harold]

I read this many moons ago and liked it. Then saw the TV series, which was also excellent. I'm enjoying it the second time around as well. Will post on the final board when finished. I think the secret to the story's success above and beyond the western genre is the character development of Gus and Call.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Yes, Gus and Call are larger than life, but the other characters are also well developed.

[Connie]

It was so hard for those teen boys that were thrown into this journey with so little training, especially the Irish boy Sean. I don't know if Call was brave or foolish, or just bored in Lonesome Dove, to attempt such a long trip.

[Sara]

Re: communications over these distances. True family story is that my Grandmother's oldest sister and her husband left for the Oklahoma land rush. She remembered them all standing and seeing them off. They never heard from them again. Never knew if they made it to Oklahoma, got land, where they settled, when they died. I won't say she was haunted by it, but she did think of it even her own very old age and mentioned it to me when we discussed the family tree for a project I did in Grammar School.

The idea of losing one of my own sisters that way was so unthinkable that I also seemed to have been haunted by this story. I have done a lot of research and uncovered a lot of family info, but I have never found a scrap of information on this sister or what might have happened to her.

[Lori]

Oh Sara, what a sad story. I'm sure your grandmother never stopped thinking about her sister her whole life. What that must have been like for her, is just unthinkable in today's world.

[Sara]

Her sister was also illiterate, Lori, so no way to write unless she found someone who would write the letter for her. Can't even imagine that, can we? There is a lot that people in the past have endured that make some of the things we deem as "problems" seem very petty indeed.

[Lori]

Can I just say that my least favorite character is Elmira. Her husband July is a close second. Spoiler through chapter 82 (view spoiler)[I guess I don't understand her lackadaisical attitude toward the marriage she got into with July and her unfeeling and unloving attitude toward her son, Joe. I could never behave the way she has and maybe that's just because I've never been in a situation like hers. But she seems so selfish and hateful. She seems to only love this man that left her behind, Dee Boot and now she's got Big Zwey enamored with her and will do anything for her. He's not exactly all there though. I just really don't like her. Anyone who would leave a baby behind and not even look at him is cruel.
Now, July, at least Clara is a conscience for you when it comes to Elmira. I was about to give up hope for him traipsing off to try to find her now that she's left again and headed toward the Souix. He's a more gentle man than any of the cowboys, especially Gus. And he knows it. Sometimes I just want to shake him when he starts to cry and feel sorry for himself!
Ok, I feel better now. I just keep shaking my head over those two. (hide spoiler)]

Connie,
I think Call hired on all the hands he could get in Lonesome Dove and sadly way too many teens and their parents willing to let them go not knowing they'd ever see them again. Newt seems to be very tender-hearted as well as green about this job. I was surprised these boys didn't get any "training" although I'm not sure what that would be? It's a modern thought maybe, that training must be involved in order to do a job properly. I suppose the first hand experience was the training these boys got. Learn as you go!

[Connie]

I suppose that a family had to let some of their children go West because there was not enough land on the family farm to support them all when they became adults. But it must have been so heartbreaking for the families to be separated.

Sara, that was so tragic for your grandmother to never hear from her sister again. The travelers faced food shortages, disease, Indian warriors, wagons breaking down, horses and oxen dying, and extreme weather conditions. Then they had to build some shelter and plow up a farm when they got there. Many women went through pregnancy and childbirth while they were on the trail. It must have taken amazing resilience and a lot of luck to get to Oklahoma.

[Sara]

I suppose there were many reasons people decided to go, sense of adventure was probably one of the lesser ones, free land for someone who probably would never be anything but a tenant farmer in the east was probably the biggest driver. In our case, the sister was newly married and I imagine it was her husband who made the decision more than her or the family. I have huge admiration for these women. They were made of some very stern stuff.

Lori - I agree Elmira is (view spoiler)[difficult to understand. She is so obsessed with Dee that I wonder that she ever resigned herself to marry July in the first place. He is almost as besotted with her (which is hard to explain). Elmira seems to be missing the mothering gene completely. She shows no concern for Joe, so it isn't any wonder that she can turn her back on the new baby without a glance. (hide spoiler)]

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I agree, Elmira is easy to hate. And July may be brave, but he's pretty stupid. Just like today, you have to wonder how some of these people survived at all. Sara, your story is sad, especially for your grandmother, but you may have relatives in Oklahoma or elsewhere that you'll never know about. Going west wasn't the only reason people left their families. My grandmother's father went to the store one day when she was 10 and never came back. They heard later that he was in Walla Walla, Washington, but they never heard from him again. And my father-in-law's father ran out on his mother when he was 18 months old. Again, they later heard that he had been killed by a jealous husband in Mississippi, but they never knew for sure. I guess modern communications make disappearing completely a little more complicated these days.
There are also the cases where women and children were captured by Indians. Those who returned were never the same. If nothing else, this book makes you realize what a vast country this is, and how hard it used to be to live to a ripe old age. As Gus told Newt, every step we take is walking across someone's bones.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I got a lot of reading done today, but I have to stop now because I'm too emotional to go on. I am so going to miss these people when I'm finished.

[Sara]

I'm not even sure July is brave, as much as too stupid to realize how foolhardy he can be. The reason he sets out to find Jake in the first place is because he is bullied into it.

You are right, Diane, there are a million reasons someone might disappear, and too often it is because they want to. We forget how many things there were to kill a person back then that wouldn't be much of a danger today. Gus was talking about the ranger that was shot a dozen times and then killed by a bee and I thought, yep, no little pocket pens to save you back then if you were unfortunate enough to be allergic.

Love that every step we take is walking across someone's bones. We're still walking across them, but we don't countenance it anymore.

[Cathrine ☯️]

Sara, I find it remarkable that you know a little of her story.
In a modern twist, my mother came out west at 18 and only saw her father, a farmer, 2 more times before he died. People did not travel much until airline fares became affordable and even then, neither of my parents got on one until they were elderly. Lori your comment about how far we've come in so little time — so true.

Though interesting, July & Elmira's stories are certainly the least in favor with me. He really seems like an idiot and she is just so worthless and there is not enough backstory to help the reader feel even a little bit of sympathy. As hard as it was on women of the period, both Elmira and Lorie lack ability to appreciate it when men try to do right by them. Lorie is acting out at Dish with the same feelings Elmira had towards July.

Starting Part 3 tomorrow.

[Sara]

What is sad is that I was too young to know I ought to ask for her married name. If I had that, I might find something, but without it, not likely. Everyone who knew anything of her is gone now.

I understand about your Mom and the not flying. It was very expensive, and people seldom flew just for pleasure. My parents never flew. I lived 600 miles from home and, while I came to visit regularly, they never visited me. It was just too hard to travel for them.

Great observation about the women not appreciating the good men. Clara is the exception to that rule, she seems to have recognized that Bob was a stable man, while Gus and Jake would not have been good husband material.

[Connie]

Elmira does not give either July or Zwey the time of day, and they go chasing after her. Maybe there are so few women out West that they just settle for anyone. (view spoiler)[Even though it's a terrible thing to leave a baby, I would not trust Elmira and Zwey with the little guy. Clara has a good head on her shoulders and a warm heart so I hope she offers him a home. (hide spoiler)]

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Clara gets woman of the year in my book. I admire her so much, not the least because she's the only person who can shut Gus up, but because she lets nothing stand in her way. As she tells her girls: "Do your best, if you happen to love a fool. You have my sympathy. Some folks will preach that it's a woman's duty never to quit, once you have made a bond with a man. I say that's folly. A bond has to work two ways. If a man don't hold up his end, there comes a time to quit." As hard and common sensical as she was, she was also loving and unselfish. No wonder she was the love of Gus's life. She was the only one who could match him.

[Sara]

I agree, Diane. She is the quintessential pioneer woman, she has the strength of both body and character, the determination, and the moral fiber. She is raising these girls to be the same. Men conquered the ground, but women made it a civilization...men live in camps, women make homes.

[Lori]

Wow! Just finished and loved this so much. I can't say enough about how well-thought out this was. I kept thinking he'd leave some minor character out by the end without wrapping up their story, but no. Every single person McMurtry created was memorable in their own ways no matter how major or minor.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I think we finished within minutes of each other Lori. I agree, he left nothing and no one unattended to. My only problem now is that no other book can compare.

[Connie]

I just finished the book tonight too. I didn't want to leave the book all weekend. I'm so glad that Diane and Laura suggested this book as a moderator's choice. What a fantastic story, and great characterizations!

[Sara]

Lori wrote: "Wow! Just finished and loved this so much. I can't say enough about how well-thought out this was. I kept thinking he'd leave some minor character out by the end without wrapping up their story, bu..."

Not the least bit surprised that you loved this, Lori. He is the consummate storyteller. You feel a kind of emptiness when it is over and a great desire to begin it again. NOW, go watch the mini-series and you will have faces for these characters that will never, ever go away.

[Lori]

Oh definitely I will! I was looking for where to stream last night.

I do feel like starting over! I, like Connie, and so glad this was moderator's choice. I just realized last night when I looked up McMurtry's age that he would have been 85 on June 3. I actually began reading on that exact day. What a wonderful way to honor him reading his most prized work in the month of his birth!

[Camie]

I’ve read this many times and had to find a nice HB copy
since it is one my favorite books of all time!!
I agree with many others that the miniseries too is very worthwhile. I’m not rereading but I am enjoying the discussion especially the quotes. Laura and Sue and anyone who is reading this for the first time I am also envious.
What a great treat !!

[Cathrine ☯️]

I'm trying to make this last, I just don't want to be done with it.
There could be a whole separate Clara's quotes section IMO. God, I love this woman.

"I think you're mean, Sally repeated, not satisfied.
Yes, and you're my equal, Clara said, looking at her daughter"
(this response reminds me of my own mother).

"He'll do what he's told, mostly, and I've come to appreciate that quality in a man."

"It happened accidentally, like I mentioned, Augustus said.
I never noticed you have such accidents with ugly girls, Clara said."

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Yes Cathrine, Clara is my hero too. I totally understand why Gus loved her so much, she took no guff from anyone and always stood her ground.

[Lori]

I love Clara’s spunk too! She’s got such a straight head on her shoulders. And her quotes are quality and meaningful. I love how she tells July to buck up. I really don’t know how she stood that man.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

July was my least favorite character in the whole book.

[Sara]

It is the only possible mis-step in the book for me, Clara and July. For one thing, he is only 24 and nearer the age of a son for Clara than anything else. I like to think she only considers keeping him around because she wants to keep Martin (boys/sons being her only weakness).

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I think she likes having someone around to control, but that was a misfire for me too.

[Laura, "The Tall Woman"]

Lori wrote: "I am very surprised by the humor - not really expecting it - but it's really great so far. The writing is just so easy and quickly paced and we're learning everything about the characters in these ..."

I am only through chapter 2 and love the humor. The men act like a group of hens pecking at each other.