Tracy Grant Book Club discussion
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The Westminster Intrigue
Rannoch Series
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WESTMINSTER INTRIGUE - gspoiler thread
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May 23, 2021 10:05AM
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Finished! I like the new couples, who I hope become part of the Rannochs’s circle of friends. I guessed the true identity of Alexander Radford, and am looking forward to him getting his comeuppance. I don’t want to be the first to reveal any spoilers, so will leave it here.
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So glad you enjoyed it!! I really liked writing the new couples, who will definitely become part of the Rannochs' circle.
Did you guess Alexander Radford's identify in advance or while reading the book?
Yes. The similar initials were the first clue, and he was the only one who made sense. Although, now I have to wait to discover his motive.
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We will learn more in the next novella and even more in the next novel...
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A big part of my plotting right now is which secrets come out in which story...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ckh...
Just finished. I guessed the big twist correctly. Not long after you first mentioned Alexander Radford in the series, I began wondering if he was Alistair - same initials. Then a struggle within the league kept pointing at him. Interesting way to have him reveal himself to Malcolm.I like the new couples also, but miss some of the older ones. I was hoping there would be more about Paul and Juliette when I saw them listed in the cast of characters - also more about David.
I thought the ending was satisfying.
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Glad to know you guessed about Alexander Radford. Did you guess in this book or in one of the earlier ones?
Paul and Juliette should have more to do in the next book with their connection to Danielle and Pierre. And David and Simon should as well. They were in Tavistock Plot quite a bit and with not being agents they can't always be caught up in the investigation.
Very glad you thought the ending was satisfying!
Yes, I guessed in a previous book.Glad to hear there will be more of Paul and Juliette.
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Glad to hear there will be more of Paul and Juliette."
That makes sense that you guessed in previous books - I was actually afraid Alexander Radford's name was too much of a giveaway. Although I've also heard from readers who didn't guess.
I love Juliette and Paul!
I thought it was possible that Alexander Radford was Alistair Rannoch, but then I was like 'nah. I mean how does one fake their death in the Georgian era? I figured there was a body and someone identified it. Unless the people were paid to identify it and it wasn't Malcolm or Fanny or Gelly. But as Malcolm is his legal heir (though nothing is entailed since Alistair isn't an aristocrat) could Alistair only take back the inheritance by showing himself to the world and then what happens when he dies? I mean if he wasn't going to leave everything to Malcolm, why did he do it in the first place? I have questions to say the least. Now that Alistair is back in play I worry more that things will end unhappily for Sandy and Bet.
Wonder if Beverston is planning something that he doesn't expect to survive as he wants his family settled and happy.
Hope to see Edmund and Pippa again. I enjoy Julien and Kitty, but sometimes I wish for a little more Harry and Cordy.
Jennifer wrote: "I thought it was possible that Alexander Radford was Alistair Rannoch, but then I was like 'nah. I mean how does one fake their death in the Georgian era? I figured there was a body and someone ide..."I would like more Harry and Cordy, as well. Malcolm and Mélanie are my favorite couple, with Harry and Cordy second. But, I understand with the growing cast of characters it’s hard to have everyone in every adventure.
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Great to hear your reaction, Jennifer! Actually, an entail is legal process that's separate from having a title - those without titles could and did entail their estates (hence the plight of the Bennet sisters whose family home is entailed on Mr. Collins) and someone with a title might not have an entailed estate though the title would pass to a specific person (one way titles and estates could end up in separate hands). Because Alistair did have an entailed estate (Arabella's father saw to it), he'd need Malcolm's agreement to break the entail (in the Fraser books when he thinks he's going to remarry and have more children, he actually asks Malcolm to break the entail). So he could now take back his property and ask Malcolm to break the entail. Malcolm could refuse to cooperate, though Alistair would probably tweak him on the fact that he doesn't believe in inherited privilege in any case. However, as the characters discuss, something caused Alistair to fake his death and something is now preventing him from revealing himself to the world and he wants a pardon.
As to the body, small spoiler, but we will learn that the face was unrecognizable.
Alistair definitely has plans for Sandy - that ties right in the opening scene of the next novella, which I am writing now.
And good thoughts about Beverston...
Glad you like Edmund and Pippa. I love Harry and Cordy too. Would you want them to have more issues to resolve or do you just want to see more of them investigating? They actually do a fair amount in this book, but it's true they don't have scenes together.
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Diane, same question to you as to Jennifer - do you want Harry and Cordy to have more issues to deal with or do you just want them more prominent. It's true, not every character/couple can be as prominent in each book. Although I did quite like writing an action scene for Harry and Mélanie!
Thank you for explaining the entail, it's been over 2 decades since I studied Austen and let's face it I was not focusing on the entail when it comes to the fate of the Bennet sisters. But I was confused about Dunmykel as I thought that was Arabella's father's home, but it was Alistair's? I assume it was easier to fake one's death as there was no CSI Bow Street, so you pay the right people and get a body that looks the right size (or you have someone pull it out of water after a few days and then anything goes). But come to think of it there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about who found Alistair's body or if there was a funeral...
As for Harry and Cordy I did enjoy him going off with Melanie, but some of the conversations he and Malcolm used to have are now had with Julien. I just want to see more of them. Also I was surprised to learn Hubert hadn't done away with George Chase for killing his ward. You know how it is, when you have faves you just want to see them in the action a bit more, it was nice with the ball though to have a bit more.
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I deliberately avoided too many details about the condition of Alistair's body earlier in the series to avoid making it too obvious he wasn't dead. When Raoul was investigating and talking to Dewhurst, he was no doubt looking into what details were available about the body, but to have had him say that before the Alistair reveal also would have been a give away (even more than the AR initials). Once Alistair appeared I probably should have had them discuss it, but somehow it seemed odd for them to say "We should have guessed his body was mangled" when they'd all have known his body was mangled. I'll have more details in the next novella and novel about how he pulled it off. We do know he died in a carriage accident that in Berkeley Square Affair they determined was murder, so the implication is the body was pretty mangled. Probably identified by the clothes.
Dunmykel was Alistair's. Malcolm had other properties that were Arabella's (like the villa) and Strathdon has his own country house (he's visiting Dunmykel in Midwinter Intrigue). Alistair actually bought Dunmykel from a distant Rannoch cousin with is legacy that probably wasn't a legacy at all (we still don't know the source of his fortune).
Good point about Malcolm's having conversations with Julien that he used to have with Harry. I know exactly what you mean about having favorites in a series - I'm the same way with series I love and my favorite characters. I think part of it is that in TAVISOCK Julien was realing with a lot of issues (to say the least) and Malcolm was working out who Julien was, so there was a lot for them to talk about. And in WESTMINSTER, Malcolm goes to Julien when he realized Alistair was alive because he knows Julien knows the truth. But with Fanny and Archie in the middle of things, I imagine there will be plenty for Malcolm and Harry to talk about in the next couple of stories and beyond.
I did like Harry and Cordy giving a ball - I was originally going to have Emily Cowper host it, but she's already hosted a ball in the series, and I realized we haven't seen Cordy and Harry as hosts.
I also liked Harry showing up with beer and being worried about Malcolm after the Alistair revelation.
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p.s.
As for George Chase, it just seems way too simple for everyone for him to be conveniently dead...
I'm really confused. I thought there was no doubt that George Chase was dead.I'm in accord with those who want more Harry and Cordy. Harry has always been a favorite of mine. The scenes when he meets Livia are so amazing. In a past post about who you would want to spend time with (or dinner?), I picked Harry.
While it has helped seeing Julien and Kitty evolve, I am ready for more Harry and Cordy, as well as Raoul with Laura. I also want more of Roth. Loved his parts in this book. The problem is, you keep creating more and more interesting characters!
I finished the book. Really enjoyed it. I guessed correctly that Alexander was really Alistair. I strongly suspected that it was him in the previous book. I based my guess on the physical description of both men. I remember reading the description of Alistair in a earlier book and how similiar the description of Alexander was to Alistair's. Looking foward to the next book in the series and learning about Alistair's secrets and the motivation that led to him faking his death. Also curious how all this is going to affect the characters especially Malcolm and Melanie. I really enjoyed your interview on YouTube.
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I'm in accord with those who want more Harry and Cordy. Harry has always been a favorite of mine. The scenes when he m..."
Last we heard of George Chase, he was going to be packed off on an obscure assignment. There was speculation CArfax would make sure he didn't survive, but so far he is still alive.
You're right there are a lot of ensemble characters and as with a television series, not everyone will have the same amount to do in a given episode/book. Generally those who get the most "screen time" will be those with the most issues - especially when it comes to personal scenes between the couples. Those are usually the couples who are working things through, like Kitty and Julien and Fanny and Archie in this book, or where one has an issue to share with their partner (or not share), like the two scenes Laura & Raoul have in Westminster. Harry and Cordy are pretty stable at the moment. I could have had a scene with them discussing how Alistair's return would impact the Rannochs, but the book was already pretty packed. That said, I'm sure there will be issues that necessitated more scenes for them in future books. Another thing I try to do is shake up the dynamic of what the recurring characters are dong - which is why in this book we see Harry and Mel in an action scene, Cordy and Harry entertaining, and Cordy's friendship with Pippa, which gives Cordy several separate scenes with Pippa and a glimpse into her life outside the Rannoch circle.
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Btw, Betty, i meant to ask if you liked Kitty better by the end of the book?
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Good catch, Madora! The description of Radford is close (I actually went back to the description of Alistair when I wrote it). That's part of what builds Raoul's suspicions. Definitely lots more to learn about Alistair in the next novella and novel!
And I'm so glad you enjoyed the YouTube interview - we loved doing it!
Tracy, I do like Kitty better after this book. She's developing her own person to me - creating relationships instead of being defined by relationships with others.
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That's a very interesting, nuanced way of putting it, Betty! Do you mean that instead of being defined as say "Malcolm's ex", she's making friends with Mélanie and Cordy, etc...?
Exactly, Tracy. More of her personality is emerging as a mother, as a friend of Cordy, Melanie, and others. Even in her conversations with Julien, I feel more of her true self shows through. Her participation in the investigation was real instead of just details from her past in the spy world. I look forward to seeing more of her.I also enjoyed the in depth look at Julien. I have always liked him, perhaps from the mystery surrounding him, but I somehow thought there was much more to him.
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Glad you are liking Kitty better, Betty - we definitely see more sides of her in this book. I liked writing the evolving friendships among the women, as well as her friendship with Malcolm. Also her feelings over responsibility over Blayney's death and her response to Julien's affair with Pendarves. And I love writing her with her kids.
I'm glad you enjoy seeing more of Julien. I love discovering his layers. He was fun to write as a mystery, but I also love exploring what is beneath the surface. As Kim said in another thread, he has changed a lot since we first saw him in the series - and we also know more about him. It was interesting to write Julien himself reflecting on his past. I don't know you heard Lauren's discussion of THE SEDUCTION OF THE CRIMSON ROSE last night (it's on FB now and really fun if you didn't hear it), but I was thinking about both Julien and Kitty in the discussion of anti-heroines and heroes who become protagonists.
I did hear Lauren's discussion. I'm still learning to navigate Zoom. For the first book - Pink Carnation, I couln't get any sound. For the second one, we were in CA, and Julian showed me how to get sound. Still haven't figured out how to respond. I moderated one of the books during her first reread of the Pink books - The Temptation of the Night Jasmine. Frequenting Lauren's website is how I found out about you. Several people mentioned your books in the Weekly Reading report.
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Zoom can have its challenges! You should see a chat link at the bottom of the screen that lets you type in comments. She's also posting the videos on Facebook afterwards so you can watch and comment there.
So glad you found me books through Lauren's website!!
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:-) I love it when readers like books I like - especially when they're written by my friends :-).
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"I finished the book over the weekend. I loved it. It seems like a LOT of conversations happen all on 1 day which was exhausting! ;-) LOL
I loved Cordy & Harry giving the ball and seeing other secondary characters who were not part of the main story. Glad to see Julieet and Paul having a connection to Danielle. I still want more stories with Jermey Roth and a resolution to his "missing" wife. I was totally surprised by the actually murderer. He seems so dull except his conversations about his wife. Not sure I believe he really loved her as much as he was using that as cover with Malcolm. I hope Pippa & Edmund try to make it work even with their different backgrounds. I am also glad Ben convinced Nerezza to marry him. I love the little romances that you add to the adventures.
Like the others, I guessed Alexander Radford was Alistair. I always wondered about his death since Berkeley Square. Was that him in the tavern with Edgar? I felt angry on Malcolm's behalf that Julien, Giselle and Raoul kept the information from him. It speaks volumes to how much people care for Malcolm and worry about him, but it does him a disservice when he doesn't have information to process the connections. I was glad Raoul hit Alistair instead of Malcolm. It is such a rare occasion for Malcolm to loose his temper that he may have killed Alistair with all that pent up anger. Alistair's return is going to cause problems for a lot of people, but especially Lady Frances and Archie which made me sad. Archie reminds me of Harry. He adores Frances, but feel insecure with Alistair back in the picture. I can't see Lady Frances going back to Alistair, but I can see Alistair using Archie's insecurity against them.
Treason has to be involved in Alistair's secret that is why he wants the pardon from the King. If Beaverston was involved, that is why he is setting his affairs in order. With the threat to his family, I think he is going to make himself a scarifice to bring down the League and Alistair"
With the return of Alistair, I started thinking about Edgar again. Did his wife go back to France or is she still in Britain? I assume she had a financial dowry when she married Edgar since Malcolm got the bulk of Alistair's and Arabella's estates. Did they have any children? Her part was so short, I wonder if she knew anything about the League and could be helpful in bringing them down?
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Good questions! We haven't seen Lydia since GLENISTER PAPERS, but shes British so presumably she's stayed in Britain. She and Edgar didn't have children. She's an heiress so she's well provided-for. As to where she knows anything about the League - it seems doubtful Edgar would have confided in her given his general attitude towards women, but it's an interesting question. I actually wrote a scene between Malcolm and Alistair about Edgar in WESTMINSTER , but then cut it because it didn't fit the flow of the story for them to meet again and have a long talk. I'll use it in the novella or the next novel. There's also a scene I wrtoe between Alistair and Raoul about Arabella that I'll use later.
Tracy wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "With the return of Alistair, I started thinking about Edgar again. Did his wife go back to France or is she still in Britain? I assume she had a financial dowry when she married Ed..."I am looking forward to both of those conversation or confrontation since I don't think either will be pleasant. I know Alistair will try to push Malcolm & Raoul's buttons.
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I love both conversations - and a follow up talk that Raoul has with Laura. They just didn't fit into this book.
Tracy wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "With the return of Alistair, I started thinking about Edgar again. Did his wife go back to France or is she still in Britain? I assume she had a fina..."It must be fun to write conversations between characters that you know and want them to have, then have them ready for where they will fit in a story.
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It is! I write out of order in general and most scenes ultimately fit into a book, but sometimes I realize I need I need to hold them for a future book.
Great insight into the writing process!
I just finished The Westminster Intrigue. I must say I really enjoyed it. I found the intrigue about the memoirs both funny (how so many were scared of the possible revelations) and a good center for the the intrigue to circle around). Good plot with a great finale (the fight about the papers), which would be a visual treat in a movie or tv-series. I also love how the characters have evolved and formed an ensemble of different personalities and story lines. I would also like more of Cordy and Harry. Their story is as problematic as Melanie's and Malcolm's, only the betrayal is on a personal level. Cordy leaves Harry for another man, which is a rejection of him. Melanie uses Malcolm and marriage for impersonal reasons, but doesn't reject him as a husband.
I like how the characters reflect on the ambiguities and complexities of their lives past and present. This makes for grown-up reading where nothing is simple. Added to that is that the villains are not all evil. I look forward to learn more of Alistair and Hubert.
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So glad you enjoyed it, Dorthe! The memoirs were fun to write and were inspired by the real life memoirs of Harriette Wilson, a courtesan who blackmailed or tried to blackmail a number of her lovers over them (including Wellington and Brougham).
Harry and Cordy and Malcolm and Mel do mirror each other in many ways. And you're right, it's a contrast that Mel never rejected Malcolm as a husband. In this book, they're at the point where Harry, like Malcolm, can joke about his own response. Would you like more stories where Harry and Cordy confront the lingering issues between them or would you rather they faced an outside threat?
I think both might be interesting. An investigation might trigger their past issues on a deeper level depending on the trigger.
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Yes, it very well might! And those are the plots that intrigue me the most - when the external thread highlights internal issues for the characters or couples.
Btw, I loved your comment about the characters reflecting on the ambiguities and complexities of their lives. I particularly loved writing the couple of scenes between Julien and Mélanie about their pasts.
Those scenes really reflected two people with dark pasts. Julien has killed people, and Melanie has been brutalized in a way that none of the other women have - from such a young age. Both have found happiness in spite of their pasts. That's uplifting to read.
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So glad to hear you found it uplifting. All the characters are moving on with their past are with them. Similarly, the scenes where Julien reflects on his past as an assassin with Kitty and where Mélanie and Kitty talk about their past. I realized there are things that Melanie an share with Kitty that she can't with the other women because of their shared experiences.
Definitely. That may explain why they develop a friendship. I also like that none of them developed a victim attitude. Strong women!
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Very much so - Mel and Kitty are both quite matter of fact about their pasts and determined not to e defined by their pasts. Though they've both been involved with the other's husband, which may not naturally seem to send itself to friendship, they have a lot in common.
The pot calling the kettle black in that sense. There's an element of humor in their situation, which may ease a natural tension.
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Very good point! They both have a sense of humor. I like writing their friendship as well as their friendships with the other women in the series.
