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Age vs PC Correctness /Attitude
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Unfortunately, Douglas, being PC has become fashionable with many people. However, that popularity doesn't change the fact that PC attitudes are mostly hypocritical and often dishonest, especially when it comes to books. To me, historical accuracy and applying the proper historical context to a story will always win over PC arguments by people who try to impose their views on others.
I agree with you Michel, although saying that we are obviously of a similar age / zone so we would be inclined to agree.
On a side note with Covid, it has opened up so many new conversations. It turns out my neighbour works for the UK Military channel, his job is to watch all the shows and cut them so as not to offend?
Dads Army, one of the funniest and least offensive shows ever, lost 3 minutes last time he checked it out.
Tis a crazy world.
On a side note with Covid, it has opened up so many new conversations. It turns out my neighbour works for the UK Military channel, his job is to watch all the shows and cut them so as not to offend?
Dads Army, one of the funniest and least offensive shows ever, lost 3 minutes last time he checked it out.
Tis a crazy world.
One of the most popular, best-selling novels during World War II was Our Hearts Were Young and Gay. At the time the term gay merely meant happy and care-free.The most popular TV series featuring married couples during the 1950's and early 1960's were Ozzie & Harriet, The Honeymooners, Father Knows Best, I Love Lucy, and Leave It to Beaver They all featured a stay-at-home wife whose primary purpose was to take care of the children, wear nice dresses and high-heels, and defer to the husband regarding major decisions. Today such programs would be quickly cancelled due to public outcry. Times change, along with culture and attitudes.
Would be interesting to hear a view from someone that prefers the new way of living also.
And Jim if you remember they always had sep beds, heaven forbid they sleep together :)
Reading Ava Gardner's autobiography currently and it has a diff view from Ozzie and Harriet, far different.
And Jim if you remember they always had sep beds, heaven forbid they sleep together :)
Reading Ava Gardner's autobiography currently and it has a diff view from Ozzie and Harriet, far different.
Many older people choose to refer to the time when they were in their prime, both physically and mentally, as The Good Old Days. They often insist that almost everything back then was better.I am 73-years-old. In my personal opinion, the best thing about The Good Old Days was, that back then, I wasn't good and wasn't old.
Oh, I get that, and like a lot of what today has to offer but a lot of the new morality we are now EXPECTED to take on board just confuses or angers me depending on the mood.
Previously things changed but there was not condemnation if you didnt change with it, from say 1970`s anyway.
If I have to go to one more meeting at work on diversity, use of pronouns in gender or the history of people of colour I will be forced to re-enact one of those ever-popular school shootings America is famous for!
Oh, wait, sorry this week it is all about the male suicide rate as discussed by a Z Lister TV presenter, where is that F***** gun!
Previously things changed but there was not condemnation if you didnt change with it, from say 1970`s anyway.
If I have to go to one more meeting at work on diversity, use of pronouns in gender or the history of people of colour I will be forced to re-enact one of those ever-popular school shootings America is famous for!
Oh, wait, sorry this week it is all about the male suicide rate as discussed by a Z Lister TV presenter, where is that F***** gun!
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."Bernard Baruch (Financier/Statesman/Author) 1870 - 1965
The thing that bothers me the most is how people seem to feel like they must take everything personally. If you don't like it, then don't read it. Scroll on past, look the other way. Why must people be so offended by things that do not directly affect them? Why can't people be free to feel and think as they choose? What a boring world this will be once everyone is the same.Just my thoughts. Much love to you all.
Hazel wrote: "The thing that bothers me the most is how people seem to feel like they must take everything personally. If you don't like it, then don't read it. Scroll on past, look the other way. Why must peopl..."
I believe that the reason for people to be complaining so much about what they read is at least partly due to their urge to shout out and be noticed, even when it is for apparently insignificant reasons. Another reason is the apparently growing intolerance towards different opinions, viewpoints and lifestyle demonstrated by a minority that is, in my opinion, growing way too large to my taste. Maybe the best way to deal with such meritless PC complaints is to simply ignore them.
I believe that the reason for people to be complaining so much about what they read is at least partly due to their urge to shout out and be noticed, even when it is for apparently insignificant reasons. Another reason is the apparently growing intolerance towards different opinions, viewpoints and lifestyle demonstrated by a minority that is, in my opinion, growing way too large to my taste. Maybe the best way to deal with such meritless PC complaints is to simply ignore them.
IMO, these days, the loudest voice is the one that's heard - right or wrong:(
Gail wrote: "IMO, these days, the loudest voice is the one that's heard - right or wrong:("Gail,
You are definitely correct. However, there is an adage that, unfortunately, proves to be true in the majority of such cases:: "The empty barrel makes the most noise!"
I agree with that, Jim, unfortunately. Although, that adage is fairly dated, which means it was also true years ago. Perhaps the only difference now is the type of noise?
I read in my newspaper this morning that our UK government is going to tackle the loud shouters.We can hope.
The first one to raise their voice during an argument or debate is usually the one who privately realizes they are wrong, but is too proud or stubborn to admit it, or may have a hidden agenda..
Jim wrote: "The first one to raise their voice during an argument or debate is usually the one who privately realizes they are wrong, but is too proud or stubborn to admit it, or may have a hidden agenda.."
Or may have the shortest temper? :)
Or may have the shortest temper? :)
Douglas wrote: "Jim wrote: "The first one to raise their voice during an argument or debate is usually the one who privately realizes they are wrong, but is too proud or stubborn to admit it, or may have a hidden ..."Douglas,
Good point! Many tend to lose their temper when they realize that they are losing the debate. A lack of self-discipline and self-control inevitably leads to a lack of decorum and the inability to recognize when one is wrong and be willing to admit it.
I have to say I disagree.
Right and wrong is a matter of perspective is all. You can be right and still angry, some people are always angry, look at the hulk :)
Right and wrong is a matter of perspective is all. You can be right and still angry, some people are always angry, look at the hulk :)
I think it also come down to what you want to do with your books. There are lots of ways to tell a good story without aggravating sensibilities. If you want to make a statement, though, you just have to be willing to deal with the flak. I really don't see anything wrong with any of it.Funnily enough, I just read "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" by Lovecraft, a story I loved as a kid in the 60s, because of the imagery. Upon reading it again, it was a terrible book, with pretty much zero character development and little in the way of plot.
It doesn't much matter. There are a lot of great new books written out there now.
One can express a strong personal belief, difference of opinion, dissent, or social commentary without attacking or insulting another's intelligence, culture, or ingrained attitudes.It is human nature for one's initial reaction to an opposing idea or critique to be defensive or emotional. The important thing is to not react instinctually, but rather intelligently.
The best way to maintain a healthy debate or merely agree to disagree is for neither party to lose their temper. The key word being 'lose'.
Definition
lose - 1 : DESTROY 2 : to miss from a customary place : MISLAY 3 :to suffer deprivation of 4 : to fail to use : WASTE 5 : to fail to win or obtain (~ the game) 6 : to fail to keep or maintain (~ his balance) 7 : to wander from (~ her way) 8 : to get rid of ---- loser n
Forgive the long, drawn-out definition, but some tend to utilize or reference the verb lose without completely understanding its true meaning.
(Source: The Merriam-Webster English Dictionary)
I believe that the problem is not so much losing one's temper but rather the lack of tolerance, or degree of intolerance, in a person (as an ability to accept or understand an idea, concept or opinion from others who don't have the same views as you). Too many people simply refuse to consider or even listen to contrary arguments from other persons they disagree with or who belong to a group/class/affiliation that those intolerant people already branded as 'liars/untrustworthy/evil/any other trait considered negative'. Just look at the political debate (charitable term used here) in the USA and you will see plenty of intolerant opinions passing off as 'PC' beliefs. This applies to PC complaints from members of groups around the whole spectrum, be they 'liberal'/'progressive'/'socialist'/'conservative'/'hard right'/'you name it'. The discussion does not even have to be about politics but could as well overflow into other subjects, like education, litterature, entertainment or lifestyle.
Michel wrote: "I believe that the problem is not so much losing one's temper but rather the lack of tolerance, or degree of intolerance, in a person (as an ability to accept or understand an idea, concept or opin..."Michel,
Your observation regarding how intolerance causes one to refuse to consider or even listen to an opposing point of view is something everyone should heed.
I have personally made enough mistakes and been proven wrong often enough during my 73 years of life to recognize the benefits to be had from listening to others' opinions with an open mind. The trick is to never make the same mistake twice and not to be stubborn about admitting when you are wrong.
Some of my best ideas have come from others.
I read recently that it is no longer appropriate just to be against something, like say Racism or Genderism. But that you will still be considered suspicious in your attitude if you are not seen to enthuse on the subject and also take part in the group denunciation's.
I am finding more and more the quiet logic of Jordan Peterson is making perfect sense, but that apparently makes me an enemy of the left?
Come the revolution ...
I am finding more and more the quiet logic of Jordan Peterson is making perfect sense, but that apparently makes me an enemy of the left?
Come the revolution ...
I was involved in a similar discussion in one of the FB groups and a young lady was adamant that words hurt. I told her that when I was growing up, we were taught that sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. That of course, started a whole new debate. Then I asked which generation was the happiest. None of the younger crowd claimed their generation is. I can't imagine what it must be like to be angry about everything all the time. It's too easy to find things to like and ignore the things I don't.
People will always find fault, words can hurt, sure and if you spend your life in FB the trolls will probably make your life hell.
But why take words so seriously?
If you don't know a person I am unsure why you would take their disdain to heart? Just a generational thing is all.
My gen in Scotland had drug, drink, gang warfare and religious tension between the Catholics and Protestants. But it probably was a lot less difficult and painful a life than sitting on FB being told your ugly by anonymous972.
Wake up and sniff the flowers while your walking the dog peoples, tis a good day to be alive :)
But why take words so seriously?
If you don't know a person I am unsure why you would take their disdain to heart? Just a generational thing is all.
My gen in Scotland had drug, drink, gang warfare and religious tension between the Catholics and Protestants. But it probably was a lot less difficult and painful a life than sitting on FB being told your ugly by anonymous972.
Wake up and sniff the flowers while your walking the dog peoples, tis a good day to be alive :)
Examples ...
Thug : Take my boot in your face, ****!
Victim : Its okay, you may have knocked my teeth out, but at least you didnt savage me with words!
vs
Anonymous972 : You are uglier than a pomegranate and your hair smells of dog breath, and did I mention your fat!
Victim : Oh, my life is over, I cannot take anymore!
(Reaches for rope and trudges over to nearest tree)
Hmm, yup I would prefer the kickin` every time.
A solution...
Anonymous972 : You are a snail amongst ants, a pisspot in a shiny toilet and your stupid!
Victim : Shuttup up you moron, did I mention I have tracked you down, nailed all your basement exits shut and am outside now with a just emptied can of petrol. Now where is that lighter again?
--
I am considering a career writing very short plays, what do you think? :)
Thug : Take my boot in your face, ****!
Victim : Its okay, you may have knocked my teeth out, but at least you didnt savage me with words!
vs
Anonymous972 : You are uglier than a pomegranate and your hair smells of dog breath, and did I mention your fat!
Victim : Oh, my life is over, I cannot take anymore!
(Reaches for rope and trudges over to nearest tree)
Hmm, yup I would prefer the kickin` every time.
A solution...
Anonymous972 : You are a snail amongst ants, a pisspot in a shiny toilet and your stupid!
Victim : Shuttup up you moron, did I mention I have tracked you down, nailed all your basement exits shut and am outside now with a just emptied can of petrol. Now where is that lighter again?
--
I am considering a career writing very short plays, what do you think? :)
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
Oscar Wilde (Playwright/Author/Poet) 1854 - 1900
Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
Oscar Wilde (Playwri..."
With all due respect, Eleanor Roosevelt came from a place of privilege with that comment.
Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
Oscar Wi..."
Surely it is immaterial where she came from, it is more important that the words ring true?
Or when making such quotes should we now check the ethical and wealth background of the speaker?
In modern times, there seems to be a dismissive attitude amongst certain groups for any view white men and women have. Is it fair to dismiss an entire group of people based on their colour etc?
That was a mistake that was made in the past, it is not a step forward to just switch targets. It is a step forward to decide that everyone has a voice and is due respect.
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
Oscar Wi..."
Surely it is immaterial where she came from, it is more important that the words ring true?
Or when making such quotes should we now check the ethical and wealth background of the speaker?
In modern times, there seems to be a dismissive attitude amongst certain groups for any view white men and women have. Is it fair to dismiss an entire group of people based on their colour etc?
That was a mistake that was made in the past, it is not a step forward to just switch targets. It is a step forward to decide that everyone has a voice and is due respect.
Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else is already take..."
This quote of hers has been thrown around a lot, including at women that have been abused. The context of how it is presented to those women implies they had control over how (e.g. psychological) abuse affected them.
Now everytime I see it (which is a lot) that's the people I think of. It plays quite a large part in my recent work, which depicts some of the impacts.
A little known aspect of the quote, to be sure, but I feel an important one.
Thank you for taking the time to converse with me on the matter.
Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else..."
I can see your point, although I have to say that in this case, the quote for yourself acts like a trigger point that affects you rather than the bulk of the readers.
But it was interesting as I was not aware of the facts surrounding it and had just marked it down as one of those endless quotes that float around Goodreads.
It is always interesting when something aimed at being so positive and uplifting can have a negative side also.
Also, I am glad you wrote a reply, as it had lead to your book, which I am keen to read. It sounds really interesting.
Regards
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; everyone else..."
I can see your point, although I have to say that in this case, the quote for yourself acts like a trigger point that affects you rather than the bulk of the readers.
But it was interesting as I was not aware of the facts surrounding it and had just marked it down as one of those endless quotes that float around Goodreads.
It is always interesting when something aimed at being so positive and uplifting can have a negative side also.
Also, I am glad you wrote a reply, as it had lead to your book, which I am keen to read. It sounds really interesting.
Regards
Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
"Be yourself; e..."
Very kind of you. If you're okay with it, I'd be happy to DM you to arrange a copy of the book in exchange for an honest review. Because it's experimental in nature, honest unfettered feedback is quite critical. Do you mind if I DM you about that?
Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
..."
I have grabbed it already and it is on my fire :)
I mentioned before I am a Moderator on a Noir based site, they take nominations for monthly reads. This month is A Rage in Harlem and Fadeout. Representing new and old books in the style of.
You are welcome to put your book up if you so wish, it is voted for by all members to make the choices fair.
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) 1884 - 1962
..."
I have grabbed it already and it is on my fire :)
I mentioned before I am a Moderator on a Noir based site, they take nominations for monthly reads. This month is A Rage in Harlem and Fadeout. Representing new and old books in the style of.
You are welcome to put your book up if you so wish, it is voted for by all members to make the choices fair.
Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/Social Advocate) ..."
Oh, yes, please! That's very kind of you to suggest it. Do I need to do something to make that happen?
Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Jac wrote: "Jim wrote: ""No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/S..."
Yup, you need to join the relevant Group.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
I will send you an email with the rest of the details.
(Anna) Eleanor Roosevelt (U.S. First Lady/S..."
Yup, you need to join the relevant Group.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
I will send you an email with the rest of the details.
I tell my teenager, when I was his age I listened to some of the stuff my grandfathers were saying and thought wow thats “wrong.” Now I am on the other side and youngers are looking and listening saying “that is wrong”. Just keep in mind that 30 years from now they will be the elders with their (not yet existing) youngers looking up at them and saying/thinking the same. I do wonder about the long balance of things. The long, slow cycle of common culture. An individual can change in an instant, it seems to take common culture 100’s of years. And all it seems to do is cycle back and forth, the same events happening over the 1,000’s of years.
C.M. wrote: "I tell my teenager, when I was his age I listened to some of the stuff my grandfathers were saying and thought wow thats “wrong.” Now I am on the other side and youngers are looking and listening s..."
Life is a See-saw, politics is a See-saw. There is always a lot of re-defining going on.
Life is a See-saw, politics is a See-saw. There is always a lot of re-defining going on.
C.M. wrote: "I tell my teenager, when I was his age I listened to some of the stuff my grandfathers were saying and thought wow thats “wrong.” Now I am on the other side and youngers are looking and listening s..."As a person ages, gains practical experience, and matures, he/she passes through three basic stages as demonstrated utilizing three statements:
1. "My Dad can lick your Dad!"
2. "Dad, you don't understand. Times have changed!"
3. "My Father used to say..."
But in the reviews their is a whole collection of vitriol aimed against the authors and to a degree the readers because they have dared to read such "Offensive" material.
The thing is that 30 years ago when I first discovered both they were not "Offensive" and to me still are not. So do young readers / writers still enjoy them or merely see a collection of isms which they can froth at the mouth on?
Personally I have always taken the view that if I like an author I will read the books, and that is my only consideration?
On a side note, when I first read Joseph Hansen (another of my fave authors) many years ago, because he wrote of a gay man it was considered highly questionable, now it is considered the way forward.