Catholic Thought discussion
Chaput, Things Worth Dying For
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Chapters 7 & 8
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Our faith is a personal experience, but its implementation is never private. The Church itself is the Body of Christ, “a living organism of many members with different tasks.”The Church is a force of good in the world, but as an institution, also has many problems.
In the second part of the chapter Archbishop Chaput asked people to answer a few questions about the Church and he gives us a sample of their answers. He concludes the chapter in giving us his take on the questions he asked.
My takeaway from “The Ties That Bind” is how much work we have to do, to move beyond pious agreement on the value of marriage and family. On page 158, the Archbishop recommends we push back against the secularism that surrounds us and weakens these institutions by: 1) being cautious and skeptical in how we use society’s tools; 2) being active Christians witnesses; and 3) having a faith rooted in a living relationship with Jesus Christ. To be successful, I think we have to move beyond the sentimentality I sometimes see delivered with guidance on the right way to live - guidance accompanied by wishful thinking for an imagined past. I like that the Archbishop is straight-talking and doesn’t stray into sentimentality.
Our work isn’t/won’t be easy - see the Archbishop’s comment on page 175 in the “Ecclesia Sua” chapter - The burden of sustaining the Church and her witness will shift more heavily on those of us who remain committed.
To me, that means working together and fixing what’s broken. It means not listening to false prophets who urge schism and foster dissent (IMHO - In My Humble Opinion.)
The people who shared their viewpoints in “Ecclesia Sua” are committed. I really enjoyed reading the comments - the anonymous ones and the Archbishop’s even though I didn’t agree with all of them.
I’m grateful to have received this book. I often fight the sin of judgment against actions I consider extreme on far left and far right. And I find I’ve misjudged the Archbishop in the past. His words in this book make me grateful for wise clergy and religious who lead us through the shifting world. I don’t look at them as idols but as holy, intelligent people whose guidance is valuable. It’s some of the powerful lay leaders who worry me. (But I’m not making a case for clericalism.)
One last somewhat unrelated comment - it goes back to war/love discussion. Did anyone see Archbishop Bashar Warda of Iraq on “EWTN Live”? The people of Iraq know war the way most of us in the U.S. don’t. The Archbishop said that Pope Francis, on his recent visit to Iraq, united the entire country for several days in a way nothing/nobody else had been able to do.
I didn’t see that program, Gerri. Thank you for telling us about it.Two things stood out for me in Chapter 8: Archbishop Chaput’s words on page 198: “Ever since becoming a Bishop I’ve thought that the Vatican too much resembles a Renaissance court.” Yes, that’s true. We want the Church to resemble a family.
Second, I loved his concentration on Saints Thomas More and John Fisher. More, in particular, is a role model for all of us who live in an increasingly secular country.
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Come the week of the 30th we'll start nominations for our next read and have a short read for a few weeks to bridge the gap to the next book.
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No I didn't Gerri. Thank you for letting us know. I hope it leads to real conversions in Iraq. The Muslim world needs to understand the real Jesus Christ.
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(1) 2015 World Meeting of Families—The Family—Traditional Two Parent Family—Family in Modern Life—Loneliness Epidemic—Fertility Decline—Marriage Decline.
(2) Family as Domestic Church—Four Factors Working Against a Healthy Family—One, Political System Undermines Traditional Family—Two, Economics Force Parents Out of the House—Three, The Dark Side of Technology Breaks the Family Down.
(3) Modernity’s Hostility Toward the Family—Positivism—The Reconstruction of Society—The Displacement of Theology with Psychology—Feminism—The Sexual Revolution’s Attack on the Family.
(4) Isolation of the Individual—The Modern Self—Pope JPII on the Family and Sexuality—The Principles of Family Life—Truth is the Inner Structure—Live the Virtues—Habit of Gratitude—Create Silence and Pray.
And let me now summarize each of the four sections.
(1) “Strong families make healthy societies. Weak and broken families do the opposite.” (p141) And we are in a period of family decline.
(2) The first three of the four factors causing family decline: the political system, the economic system, and the dark side of technology.
(3) The fourth factor, the hostility toward the family by the modernist ideologies.
(4) Strong families build strong individuals, and Pope John Paul II showed us how.
The overall gist of this chapter can be seen to be thus: The modern family is decline because of four main factors, and we need to repair the family by putting into proper perspective human sexuality and marriage.
I particularly liked the references to John Paul II, C.S. Lewis, and Catherine of Siena.
I found the idea of modern liberal democracy--especially in the vein of John Locke, a major influencer of the Founding Fathers--as inherently oppositional to the family fascinating. I'd never heard that before. Initially, I was skeptical, until Chaput quoted Locke. Then it started to make sense. The concept of family implies natural duties, duties visible in the reactive outrage to Jesus' words that whoever follows him must hate his father and his mother. That was outrageous in the ancient Jewish world--in fact, it's pretty much outrageous in many world cultures.
However, how do these duties square with the "self-made man," the autonomous individual that Locke and Mills and Bentham praise?
Indeed, how do we as Americans deal with this subtle and unspoken issue? We simply ignore it, and we allow the economy to increasingly take over and atomize our relations with each other through iPhones, computer screens, and attitudes of others as obstacles to our own personal serenity.
I guess I see things a little differently. To my mind, two events in the last sixty years, unique to America, had a clear, deleterious effect on traditional marriage. They are not the only two negative influences on the family, but they are and were critical.The first was the introduction of the birth control pill. Casual sex and all that came with it: multiple partners, freedom from commitment, etc. followed.
Second, President Lyndon Johnson had the best of intentions and didn’t see the damage that would result when his administration determined that a woman couldn’t receive welfare if a man was living in the house, but that decision effectively broke up the black family. Anyone who wishes to can see the 1990s film “Boyz n the Hood,” a cautionary tale about the damage done to generations of young black men who grew up without a father in the home.
To be clear, Peej, I’m not denying any of your arguments. I just want to add elements of societal change which I think haven’t been stressed but have also torn at the fabric of the family.
Frances wrote: "I guess I see things a little differently. To my mind, two events in the last sixty years, unique to America, had a clear, deleterious effect on traditional marriage. They are not the only two nega..."Frances, I agree. I think the birth control argument goes along with Chaput's technology argument. As for Johnson's policy, it was well-intentioned but it created a perverse incentive, which is a prudential argument.
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Today we caricature those that wanted to keep women from the workplace. The thing is, if you're in the workplace, you're not building a home.
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The charism of hospitality - the making of a home with all its welcoming and restorative touches, and not just a place to crash at the end of the day - is largely lost on the daughters of Betty Friedan, et. al. Well, for her the help did all the menial work...must be nice...
Women in the home have since the days of Penelope been the builders and preservers of religion, refinement, and culture, to be passed on to the next generation. It is an awesome responsibility, and we need to recover it if we want our families to heal and our Christian culture restored.
Kerstin wrote: "Manny wrote: "Today we caricature those that wanted to keep women from the workplace. The thing is, if you're in the workplace, you're not building a home."The charism of hospitality - the making..."
I saw a headline yesterday actually that commented on women during the pandemic being "just moms" because of the shut down of most day cares and that made me think of this and the simple fact that building a home is far more important in the long run than being successful.
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(1) We Die For What We Value—Christian Persecution—Historical Church Positives—Church Negatives—Church as Body of Christ—Church as Mother—Positive Impact of Catholic Church—Hostility to Church—Restrictions to Religious Liberty.
(2) Witness of Martyrs—Thomas More—John Fisher—Survey of Lay People: Dysfunctional Family—Mother—The Eucharist—Good Priests—Communion of Saints—Beauty—Truth—Kingdom of God—Relationship with Jesus—Redemption.
(3) Survey of Priests: Prayer—Love for the Church—Bringing Sacraments to laity—Configuration to Christ the Shepherd—Apostolic Structure—History of the Church—Source of Unity—Inheritance—Coherence—Problem of Money—Mixed Results of Vatican II—Activity Has Overwhelmed Contemplative.
(4) Abp Chuput Answers to Survey: Church as Mother—Church as Spouse—Church as Community—Sacraments—Bureaucracy Not Important—Faith—Disappointments: Sex Abuse—Those Who Try To Remake the Church—Bishops Who Are Cowards—Joy: Faith of Those With Adversity—Most Admired: Popes JPII and Benedict XVI—Mixed Reactions to Higher Institutions of the Church—Make the Church Holier, Less Wordly, Simpler—History as Work of Remembering.
Given the nature of this chapter, I don’t think it makes sense to summarize each section. The overall gist of the chapter could be summed up as that most laity, priests, and the Archbishop himself love the Catholic Church and want to make it holier.
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How do you think of the church?
What gives me the most joy about the church?
What troubles me most about the church?
Why have you stayed in the church?
What do you love most about the church?
What troubles you about the church?
Why is history of the church important?
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
What disappoints you the most about the church?
Who in the church have you admired most?
What needs to change in the church?
How should we think of the role of the pope?
Any other thoughts?
Feel free to answer them too. I would be curious as to how the book club members answer.
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How do you think of the church?
I think of the church as home, that is mother, father, grandfather, grandmother. All the familial attributes are wrapped into one. Going to church is like returning home and having a family meal.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
The blessings, that is feeling blessed when I am within her doors, when I have some role to play to make her beautiful, receiving the sacraments, when listening to church music or looking at the beautiful art, when praying, when attending Mass, when watching her charitable arms provide works of mercy, when having a discussion with a parishioner or the pastor, when feeling connected.
What troubles me most about the church?
Those that feel the need to change her.
Why have you stayed in the church?
Because it is the Truth! Where else can I go? Anywhere else would not be the truth.
What do you love most about the church?
Her universality, which includes not just the horizontal time plane of today but the vertical plane of the historical past and the future to come. She embraces and loves all in time and space.
What troubles you about the church?
The political factions that have formed, those on the encrusted right and those on the deconstructing left.
Why is history of the church important?
It is the history of western culture. There is no concept of western culture without the Catholic Church.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
I’m not knowledgeable enough to say, but I think it came at the wrong time in history and its follow through was abused by people with a political agenda.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
Bad priests. I didn’t believe the sex abuse scandals when they first came out because I didn’t think priests could act that way. People go to priests in times of crises and need their trust. Violations of that trust may be among the worst sins possible.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Great priests that would be here meaningless to name. Great orthodox theologians. And I too love Popes JPII and Benedict XVI because they are both great priests and great theologians.
What needs to change in the church?
Corruption.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
Protector of the Magisterium, of orthodoxy, of the deposit of faith. As the explainer of the faith. Look at Pope St. John Paul II, he is the model of the ideal pope.
Any other thoughts?
The Catholic Church needs to step out more, have processions in the streets, pray in the public, present our faith to the culture at large, on the TV, on the radio, at public displays. We need to do what St. Dominic did in the Twelfth Century, preach to the public for the salvation of souls.
How do you think of the church?I think of the Church as sacrament of the Holy Spirit and the Body of Christ. The universal advocate. Field hospital of the sacraments.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
The Church manifests Jesus' love and mercy here and now in a present and physical way.
What troubles me most about the church?
Human sin, practical relativism, and the lack of intentional discipleship.
Why have you stayed in the church?
Jesus saved me through His Church by faith through the sacraments.
What do you love most about the church?
The saints. The both/and of its theology. The deposit of faith.
What troubles you about the church?
Those who attempt to project their own vision of the Church onto the Church itself, making themselves their own Magisterium or choosing other individuals as their own Magisterium.
Why is history of the church important?
Christianity is historical. Jesus Christ truly existed in human history. The Church preserves that history from the passion, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus to the present day.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
No. Vatican II was an ecumenical council, and thus a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The problem lies in how we apply the teachings of Vatican II. We are treasures in earthen vessels.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
It doesn't focus on creating intentional disciples; instead, it attempts to simply maintain the numbers, which are ironically falling dramatically.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Its many, many saints. Pope Francis has continuously renewed and challenged my faith since 2014.
What needs to change in the church?
We need to focus on bringing all people to Jesus through the kerygma.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
Vicar of Christ. Bishop of Rome. Successor of St. Peter as the rock upon which the Church is built. Visible representation of unity within the Catholic Church.
Manny and Peej, you have expressed everything so well that I am not sure what to add. But I think we should respond in some way, so here are my thoughts:How do you think of the Church?
As the home for which I always long.
What troubles you about the Church?
Timorous clergy.
Who have you admired most?
Augustine. Not just because he was one of the three figures who shaped Catholic thought forever (Sts. Paul and Thomas Aquinas being the other two), but because, when Hippo was attacked by the Vandals in 430-431, Augustine could have left the city for safety, but, though everything was collapsing around him, he chose to remain.
Maximilian Kolbe. “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”
Thomas More. We need him badly.
John Paul II. Vibrant, principled, holy: he was, to my mind, the ideal representative of what the pope should be.
Hildegard of Bingen. A role model for women, though not all women can be a polymath, talented in music, science and medicine and literature; a correspondent with popes and a Doctor of the Church.
J.R.R. Tolkien. In grace-filled prose, he gave us other worlds.
Here's mine:How do you think of the church?
As my lifeline to the next life and my guide in this one.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
When I know I am in the presence of God, especially in the Eucharist
What troubles me most about the church?
That too many outside the Church think we're satanic pedophiles who worship idols--as if you could dismiss Christ and what he did for us because Judas betrayed him.
Why have you stayed in the church?
With St. Peter, I think, Lord, where would I go?
What do you love most about the church?
The beauty, the truth, the goodness that Christianity and Catholicism have given the world.
What troubles you about the church?
Can we trust the hierarchy? So many have defected and continue to question what should be understood as eternal truth.
Why is history of the church important?
Because we can find that most of our questions were brought up and answered in earlier centuries, and the saints have given us so much by their example and their writings.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
Perhaps. We lost so much with the Latin Mass, despite the positives about Mass in the vernacular. I miss the solemnity, the
beauty of the High Mass we no longer have every Sunday. I believe the relaxation of the rituals and customs led to a relaxation of our devotions and personally I feel that was a contributing factor to our children and their generation's great exodus from the faith. When we begin to act like protestants, we
might as well be them, or so some of that generation seem to feel. I'm not suggesting we go back to pre-Vatican rituals and scrap the changes of Vatican II because some were good and added to our understanding. I like that Bible study is becoming more the norm in many parishes, But I would like to see at least one Latin Mass offered during the week, not compulsory, but I am
seeing many young families are populating the local church that is entirely Latin rite.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
That our parish priests seem afraid to tackle the hard truths in their homilies, and some seem to feel we need to be entertained by them. That the majority of our bishops and cardinals are weak and won't stand up to heresy, and especially that they are weak on the abortion issue and don't support our pro-life ministries as they should.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Those who give their time to parish ministries when they could be doing easier and more comfortable things--they set good examples, and many of them are saints among us. I admire the martyrs, and their stubborn faith and courage in the face of horrendous pain and pressure.
What needs to change in the church?
We need better and more committed shepherds. I see many of our young priests who seem to be more in touch with Catholic doctrine than some of the older ones. Just an impression, hopefully not just wishful thinking. Our parish has had a large number of vocations, and I know that's not the case everywhere.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
As the Vicar of Christ.
Any other thoughts?
I've read, along with Archbishop C's book, Austin Ruse's new book: Under Siege: No Finer Time to be a Catholic. It is an excellent analysis of the threats to our faith by the ideologies that want to replace God with the State, and religion with ideology, and rituals with depraved practices that were condemned even in the Old Testament. And despite this, he sees our culture and times as an excellent opportunity for Catholics to enjoy a renewal and a revival--the new emphasis on evangelism (in our parish, at least) is a good place to start, but we also have to put on the armor of God and do battle alongside St. Michael. I'm remembering Bishop Barron's emphasis on the pivotal players--those amazing saints (superheroes, in our vernacular) who seemed to rise up and defend the Church when she has been suffering her deepest hurts and weakness. We have something to live up to in them, and we know who they are.
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Manny, if this is really the end of our discussion on the book, I’d like to offer a quotation in closure:“Do not abandon yourselves to despair. We are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song.”
— Pope John Paul II
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“Do not abandon yourselves to despair. We are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song..."
That's fine Frances, but it's not the end of our discussion on the book. We have one more week for chapter 9 and the Afterward. Did you see the near term schedule I just put out? Here, comment #104:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
How do you think of the church?A pilgrim people, the community of disciples walking with Christ
Why have you stayed in the church?
The Eucharist
What do you love most about the church?
The Sacraments and its long history of falling and getting up again while keeping our eyes and heart on Christ.
What troubles you about the church?
That we seem to have become lukewarm, lukewarm in our passion for the Gospel, lukewarm in the passion felt by so many of its members, seen as irrelevant to much of the world.
Why is history of the church important?
It is the clearest sign for me of the power of the Holy Spirit. Only God could have kept this rickety ship afloat despite all the failings of its crew for 2,000 years. It also gives us a sense of perspective. How we have done things for the past 50 or 100 years is not how we have always done things. The problems we face now are not new.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
If we believe that the Spirit led that council, than I believe that it was what God intended it to be. I am not sure that we implemented fully the vision of that council. credit
What disappoints you the most about the church?
Its fractiousness. I am not sure that the outside world would say that we can any longer be recognized by the way that we love one another. Related to the fractiousness, the navel gazing. We could be transforming the world with the radical message of the Gospel, with the self-sacrificing love of the Crucified Christ, the unbounded hope of the Resurrection, the unconditional love of the Incarnation. Instead, we spend our energy arguing over how high to build the walls.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Pope Francis, Dorothy Day, Teresa of Avila, Peter Claver, Oscar Romero, Katherine Drexler, the list could go on and on.
What needs to change in the church?
We need to focus on helping every member fall deeply and unreservedly in love with Christ, to experience the earthquaking encounter with Jesus that rocks the life of every person who feels it. We need to realize that we have found the pearl of great price and sell everything we have, to hold nothing back as we build the Reign of God. And we need to make sure everyone is welcomed and knows their full value. Women must not continue to be treated as second class citizens.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
Teacher and Shepherd.
Any other thoughts?
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I am slowly making my way through 'The Lord of the Rings', and I am enjoying it immensely.
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Hear! Hear! I would love that!! Give us the Mass in the fullness of majesty.
Or, at least restore Gregorian chant to the liturgy.
Before CoVid, our parish had our adoration chapel open 24/7. Frequently, there would be Gregorian chant gently played over the PA outside. And it played during much of our CRHP retreats. It's so beautiful and calming. Our young assistant pastor has brought back chanting to his Masses. With all the chaos in the church (Father Altman has been asked to resign by his bishop--one source says he has hired a canon lawyer to hold onto his place) we need a return to the solemnity and peace of our worship that some of us grew up with.
Kerstin, and all others who find meaning in LOTR, please listen to this You Tube video: On the Power of Fiction C.S. Lewis J.R.R. Tolkien. It’s about 14 minutes long. I promise you will love it.
I've finished the book, but unfortunately this is a very busy month for our family so I haven't been able to catch up with all the discussion. At any rate, here are my answers to Manny's/Archbishop Chaput's questions. Sorry they're short, I'd expound more but no time right now: How do you think of the church?
She is my Mother. Not perfect, and can be exasperating sometimes, but She loves me and I love Her.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
All the beauty, not necessarily the physical beauty though that certainly helps. But the beauty of witnessing the faith of those around me. The souls entrusted to my care (my children, biological and spiritual) as well as those I see from afar. I love being on this journey with all of you. Especially those with heavier crosses than mine.
What troubles me most about the church?
The infighting. I'm so tired of it. I get that some of it is necessary, but it really is exhausting to see day in and day out. Of course seeing it is a choice as well, but I cannot be perpetually looking away either.
Why have you stayed in the church?
Where would I go? There is nowhere to go, nowhere that makes sense as much as here. Jesus is here.
What do you love most about the church?
Her members.
What troubles you about the church?
Those who have lost their way and can't seem to find a way back, and church leaders and laity who seem to be impeding their way instead of helping. It's frustrating.
Why is history of the church important?
So we understand that history repeats itself. So we don't get too discouraged because the troubles that we lament now were certainly lamented centuries ago as well, they just manifest differently today.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
No. I'm of two minds about V2, and will need at least a couple of pages to explain, so I'll leave it at that.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
Leaders who don't understand what we really need, and leaders who seek to undermine Church teaching.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Oh, too many. If I had to name only one, right now it would be Fr. John Riccardo.
What needs to change in the church?
I want more clarity. Stop with the wishy-washy stuff. It really isn't helping.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
Once I thought the role of the Pope was to bring clarity to a confused world. I still think that's his role but I don't think we're getting that much these days. I won't say it's deliberate, but often I get the feeling that Pope F is either incredibly naive, or maybe I just need to learn more humility and pray for him more.
Any other thoughts? Just to say how much I appreciate this group -- thank you for your presence on Goodreads.
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I forgot to thank you too Irene, Wonderful. Thanks.
So many amazing answers, and many of them speak for me, too. I'll try to encapsulate my thoughts:How do you think of the church?
As home for both body and soul.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
The sacraments, the community of saints above and on Earth, prayer, the way the church reaches back to the days of Christ, and the universality of the church.
What troubles me most about the church?
The way its leaders and members sometimes preach the Gospel rather than live it. Examples already mentioned include how the right-left factions tear at each other and how people sometimes find walls instead of doors. Another is how the abuse crisis was ignored for too long despite cries for help that stretch back to the 1980s and before. Unless I’m mistaken, the bishops are still guarding themselves; oversight needs to be broadened.
Why have you stayed in the church?
I actually tried to leave when I was a young adult. Then realized my faith was guiding me every step of the way as I stumbled through the New Age. When I inched back, I briefly considered joining the Episcopal Church. That made me realize I only had one religious home and it had been with me the entire time.
What do you love most about the church?
The sacraments and prayer, the sense of being wrapped in Christ and the gospels within a community that is a family, the church's universality, and the community of saints, beginning with the Blessed Mother. I love how all these things help bring me closer to God.
What troubles you about the church?
The creeping clericalism I see taking place. Also, we (the people and church leaders) need to be careful not to embrace 1st century cultural relativism at the expense of people's 21st century souls. Divorce in the 1st century left the ex destitute and shunned by society. Today, there are times when divorce is a sad reality. I speak from experience. I endured an early, abusive marriage. I feared my ex enough to avoid attempting the annulment process for many years. I remarried civilly and couldn't receive Communion. I felt shunned and unwelcome at church. I truly needed to feel the presence of Christ. Anyway, that's when I turned away. Long after the civil marriage vows, I finally got the annulment and we had our marriage convalidated. The annulment process was long and grueling. (The parish priests and diocesan tribunal were prayerful and powerful guides, though.) I've been remarried for 35 years now and truly believe in the importance of marriage and a two-parent mother-father household. But young people sometimes make stupid mistakes, especially in today’s society. There has to be a better way to approach the matter of divorce and the ban on receiving the Eucharist.
Why is history of the church important?
Because it makes me realize that the rock will remain, that crises of all sorts can batter us but that the church will make it through.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
No. It was needed. Its teachings may have been applied incorrectly in some ways. I want to feel like I'm attending Mass, not a Protestant service (they belong in Protestant churches). I like that Gregorian chant, incense, bells, some Latin phrases are finding their way back into Masses, while still keeping with the vernacular. I’m dismayed that some priests appear to care more about appearances, to the point it seems they are reverencing the ritual, not the reason for it. On another note, I’m happy that more and more women religious are wearing a habit again.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
It sometimes doesn’t seem to learn from past mistakes.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Oh, my, the list is long. Among modern leaders, Pope Francis, Pope St. John XXIII, Pope Benedict XVI. But also so many others including Mother Cabrini and all the unsung heroes and heroines, religious and laity, who built churches, schools, hospitals, health care systems and continue to minister to others today.
What needs to change in the church?
Women need to have a bigger role in the leadership. Not as priests. There is plenty of other room at the table. I’m undecided about whether women should be deacons, as they clearly seem to have been in the early church. But the role of a deaconess may have been different then. I haven’t studied the issue. Maybe there’s a way to have clearly defined roles for deacons and deaconesses within the church today.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
As the father and leader of the church, the successor of St. Peter who tends a global flock and who deserves respect and loyalty even by those who disagree with him. The church is much bigger than the wealthy and demanding West.
Any other thoughts?
I am saddened when the Eucharist is weaponized. The ones denied are often the ones who need Christ the most.
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How do you think of the church?
As my mother, she is comfort and refuge
What gives me the most joy about the church?
her beauty
What troubles me most about the church?
Too much shady stuff behind the scenes
Why have you stayed in the church?
As a convert, I purposefully embraced her
What do you love most about the church?
That Jesus himself founded her. Her long history, her rootedness in what is good, true, and beautiful.
What troubles you about the church?
Clericalism and those who from within carelessly defile her for personal gain
Why is history of the church important?
It is the story of our family, and through all good and bad up and down the centuries, her history tells us who we are. Through her saints we have shining examples of how to be human, fully alive in the light of Christ.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
Opinions are all over the place, some more credible than others. I have yet to read the documents themselves, so what I know of the council doesn't impress me much. Given that the Church has hemorrhaged members since then, I fear it was more of a failure than a success. What's more, we have suffered the fall-out of being spiritually suffocated with insipid liturgies and pedestrian and profane music.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
Feckless and cowardly leaders who are more concerned about their personal ambitions than saving souls.
Who in the church have you admired most?
Impossible to answer. Joseph Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict XVI was instrumental in my conversion, so I will always have a soft spot in my heart for him
What needs to change in the church?
Refocusing on the salvation of souls and kick all the relativism, modernism, or whatever "isms" to the curb. Follow Christ and the Gospel, the deposit of faith. There are all these hobby horses, climate change, ecumenism, dialogue (whatever that means...), etc., etc., but few of the princes are actually concerned about saving souls, as Jesus commands them, to make disciples of all nations. Few of them talk about virtuous and moral living, penance and sacrifice, in order to gain salvation.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
First and foremost he is the Bishop of Rome, otherwise he is the spokesperson of the Church
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So many good thoughts here. I'm afraid I fell behind but was able to finish the book this morning.Regarding the discussion of women working outside of the home, I experienced first hand over the past 10 - 15 years where not all women are buying into the super woman model of juggling family and a career. I know of several women who intended to go back to work after having their children only to find they abhorred the idea of someone else raising their child. Someone commented to me recently about the tragedy of women leaving the workforce during the pandemic. I reminded them that the pandemic also caused people to stop and think of what they valued most. Faced with a perceived life and death situation, I believe many left and don't regret it.
How do you think of the church?I see the Church as my refuge and my home. I strayed from the Faith during my twenties and thirties yet I would occasionally wander into a church and would instantly feel at home.
What gives me the most joy about the church?
The sacraments, especially the Eucharist. The intimacy of being with Christ after having received his body is such a supernatural moment that I get lost and can forget I'm in church. I went through a bit of a spiritual crisis during COVID when that was taken away for a period of time. But it was also a moment of insight in my relationship with Christ and brought me into deep reflection on that, especially in light of the fact that there are good faithful Catholics who cannot receive our Lord in the Eucharist for various reasons. Yet they maintain a deep intimate relationship with him.
What troubles me most about the church?
The bishops and the administrative side. The bureaucracy and politics are just revolting to me. How they handled the sex crisis was disgusting.
Why have you stayed in the church?
In the words of St. Peter, where else would I go? The Truth exists in the Church.
What do you love most about the church?
The community united by Sacred Scripture and tradition.
What troubles you about the church?
The divisiveness and infighting.
Why is history of the church important?
To remember where we've been and what can be either learned or cherished is important. Christ is our hope but I also find hope in all that the Church as endured over the centuries.
Was Vatican II too optimistic?
Not sure. I've not studied Vatican II much. I've read excerpts from some of the documents which I find beautiful. People often say the implementation went wrong. There was both good and bad that came from it. It seems like some used it to take license with the rubrics of the Mass. That's about all I can say on this.
What disappoints you the most about the church?
As stated above the division, especially within the bishops.
Who in the church have you admired most?
The priests who faithfully live out their vocation as shepherd to their people, sacrificing so much in order to be Christ to their parish.
What needs to change in the church?
More emphasis on the faith and less on the bureaucracy, especially where the sacraments are concerned. Making someone go through a two year RCIA program is crazymaking.
How should we think of the role of the pope?
The role of the pope is the defender and protector of the Church. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the pope. I pray for him and sometimes will watch coverage of his visits. I pay more attention to my archbishop as he sets the tone for the archdiocese. Archbishop Aquila, my archbishop, has been an amazing leader this past year and I'm so appreciative of him. He's brought us back to the basics of praying the St Michael prayer after Mass and the last several months invoking the Holy Spirit by asking us to pray to Him daily for our archdiocese and our world. Sometimes it's just the simple things that matter.
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Once little league season begins my reading season ends but I just finally read chapter 7 and found it exceedingly powerful. One intellectual for instance...For years I've been quietly fascinated by the striking break between original feminism and modern Marxist feminism and the complete lack of awareness that this division exists. Originally feminists sought to elevate femininity against encroaching masculinity. Modern Marxist feminism seeks to suppress both femininity and masculinity by asserting that all human units are simply equal economic units. All that is good in the masculine and feminine is stripped away just as we strip away adornment in our modern architecture. Chaput showed me that this is not my own conspiratorial imagination but rather the explicit intellectual efforts of "thinkers" such as Firestone and Reich and popularizers such as Mailer, Bellow, et al.
This chapter is packed with this sort of thing and shows the power of engaging bad ideas on their own terms. In doing so, Chaput has displayed the fragility of the underlying foundations of what many today accept as good old fashioned common sense.
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You have children in little league or are you coaching? My son is finishing up his season now. Their team has gone undefeated with one more game to play in the regular season. I hope they don't choke in the playoffs. That would be a shame after such a great spring.
I coach/assistant coach a few teams. My son's 12yo team won their world series tonight. unfortunately I had to miss that because I head coach my daughter's softball team across town. For 4 months or so it's all consuming and I wonder if I'm nuts but the rest of the year I miss it.
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God bless you Casey for being one of the coaches. We have several in our league that coach several teams. Unfortunately I can't but the kids get so much out of those who coach them. It really is special for them. You're an angel in their lives, really.
Good for you, Casey! My husband coached all three of our kids in our city leagues until they were able to get on school teams. Mostly basketball, which was his favorite sport, but he also assisted the baseball team for our youngest. I hope the kids appreciated this very above-and-beyond fatherly thing to do. Our youngest son is still best friends with one of those early teammates, who happens to be Coach Beard of Texas Tech now, who almost won the college championship a few years ago. They played high school basketball together and were roommates at UT.
Madeleine wrote: "Good for you, Casey! My husband coached all three of our kids in our city leagues until they were able to get on school teams. Mostly basketball, which was his favorite sport, but he also assisted ..."Oh wow, that's a really fun tidbit. Baseball is my number 1 but I'm a big lover of College basketball too. My own Robert Morris Colonials (both men and women) got robbed of fantastic March Madness opportunities in 2020.
The family is the foundation of society. Today the family finds itself very much in decline and under attack. Four factors contribute to this:
1) Our democratic political system: the family is ultimately undemocratic
2) Economic: the free market is unconnected to social responsibility
3) Science & technology: little thought is given to ethics and human dignity
4) Secular ideologies like Marxism are intrinsically hostile to the family
Archbishop Chaput gives concrete examples on how to counter these forces in order to raise happy, healthy families.