Longest Journey Week 2: Pt 1 Chapters 8 to 15

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Rickie and Agnes announce their engagement to Rickie's Cambridge friends, with various reactions.

Then the setting changes to Cadover, the home of Rickie's aunt.
How would you describe Emily?

Emily sends Rickie to go riding with Stephen, but their plans don't work out. They were originally supposed to go to Salisbury but only Stephen went there.
Why didn't Rickie go along?

The cover of the book I'm reading illustrates the first part of their joint excursion:


There is a dramatic revelation about Stephen, and Rickie faints when he hears it.
What did he just learn?
Do you think Emily is enjoying all the drama?
What kind of a person is Stephen?

The last chapter in this section deals with Rickie's lack of success in getting his stories published.
He also has the suspicion that Agnes is not terribly bright, but he's in love so it doesn't matter!

How do you see their future marriage?

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Here is the poem, found on p. 137 (Chapter 13) in the edition I'm using:

"I never was attached to that great sect
Whose doctrine is that each one should select
Out of the world a mistress or a friend,
And all the rest, though fair and wise, commend
To cold oblivion--though it is the code
Of modern morals, and the beaten road
Which those poor slaves with weary footsteps tread
Who travel to their home among the dead
By the broad highway of the world,--and so
With one sad friend, perhaps a jealous foe,
The dreariest and the longest journey go."

Thoughts?

[Lori, Moderator]

Ansell's reaction to the engagement seems to confirm some of the speculation about him from last week's discussion.

What happened to the writing quality in Chapter 10, or was it just me? This was the chapter that began with Aunt Emily and “Podge.” At first (until someone said Rickie and Agnes were coming), I thought this was a sample of Rickie’s writing and thought he had a long way to go as a writer. (Going further, that appears to be the case anyway.)

I found the sections set at Cadover pretty boring and wondered what the point was, but I guess it was just to set up the shock of Stephen being Rickie's brother. I was a bit surprised by Agnes's strong reaction to the news, and it made me wonder if maybe she was looking for an excuse to get out after finding out Rickie wasn't as wealthy as she had thought.

Is Rickie's failure to convey the news to Stephen really the "symbolic moment" that will define the rest of his life? He seems to think it's a big deal. In most circumstances, I would agree, but Aunt Emily says Stephen has never shown any curiosity about his parentage and the news would just be something for him to talk about in town, so perhaps things are fine the way they are in this case. Anyway, Aunt Emily seems to prefer Stephen over Rickie and will probably leave him some money. I wonder, is the bigger shock the fact that Rickie's related to someone as coarse as Stephen, or that his father had an affair?

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I thought these chapters were disjointed and confusing, to say the least.
So far, Rickie has shown himself to be weak and indecisive, which doesn't bode well for after he gets married to Agnes, who seems to be as domineering and snobbish as her brother.
I don't know what to make of Emily!

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Stephen's personality seems to be the direct opposite to Rickie's.

[Lori, Moderator]

Rosemarie wrote: "I don't know what to make of Emily!"

Maybe she has a boring life and spices it up by shocking people (e.g., she enjoys people's reactions to Stephen at church and asked him not to shave before introducing him to Agnes and Rickie).

[Robin P, Moderator]

I was totally lost when the scene switched in Chapter X. Why are we here and who are all these people? I stopped partway through but I will go back and try to get my bearings. Still very weird shifts after the first part was straightforward.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I read ahead. The next part is much more straight-forward.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Ok, I have now finished the section. I don't remember Forster's other books being like this. There is a description of people doing very little and a description of buildings or a countryside, then all of a sudden - Wham - something shattering happens - death, family secrets revealed.

It's not a coincidence that the big revelation happens inside the pagan circle. I thought right away that this reminded me of another book by some author, and then it came to me - Forster's own A Passage to India and the cave. There is the sense that certain places transcend modern civilization and therefore lend themselves to actions or words that would be impossible in a drawing room.

I found the description of the church service and what Aunt Emily was thinking about amusing. It's odd that she isn't offended by the really confronting things that Stephen says but gets angry about Rickie's rather ordinary comments. But then, Stephen is obviously a favorite whom she has known since childhood, while Rickie is a stranger. There is also the possibility that she associates any weakness (physical or moral) of Rickie with that of his father, or that she thinks Rickie is suddenly after her money now that he wants to get married. Forster actually shows us very little of the characters' thoughts, only glimpses of specific reactions.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

He certainly doesn't prepare us for important news.

[Detlef]

I agree with most of you. This novel is not very consistent. It looks like parts of a book have been put together, and the joining elements have been forgotten. Disjointed is a good description.
When chapter 10 started I thought I am in a different novel altogether. And then there was the long interlude with Stephen, which did not make any sense. Why give so much importance to this character. Only later we get an explanation for it. It still does not make much sense to build things up like this. So far I thought that this novel needed a good editor.
Brian used the term „Bildungsroman“, meaning a novel where the protagonist develops morally and psychologically. That might be true in this case, but it is a very poor example of this. A classic example is Goethe‘s „Wilhelm Meister‘s Lehrjahre“ or Keller‘s „Der grüne Heinrich“. These are novels of education and formation. This one, in my opinion, falls far short.
I enjoyed reading Foster, but this one does not seem his best work.
Another issue: The homosexual context. I think it is certainly there, this is likely autobiographical. Does this mean that Foster sees himself in Ansell?

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I think he would rather see himself in Ansell, than in Rickie, who is weak and hesitant.
I can't see this as a Bildungsroman either, since Rickie really doesn't develop any self-awareness and just muddles along under the force of circumstances.

[Brian E]

Lori wrote: "I found the sections set at Cadover pretty boring and wondered what the point was, but I guess it was just to set up the shock of Stephen being Rickie's brother. "

Like everybody else here, I thought this section was a bit disjointed and that the above basically summarizes the section.

Detlef wrote: ".Bildungsroman“, meaning a novel where the protagonist develops morally and psychologically. That might be true in this case, but it is a very poor example of this..."

Yes, I initially thought this was to be a Bildungsroman mainly because it was fairly autobiographical story about a young man through his school years and marriage and didn't seem to have much plot. I thought a Bildungsroman could lack a well developed plot and consist of more random events if those are the events that result in the character's development. The growth in the character serves as the plot development.
However, after this section, I was going to say just what Detlef and Rosemarie said: this either isn't a Bildungsroman or is a poor one since Ricky has shown no real character development so far.
I will no longer assume that a book that is semi-autobiographical and about a young man is a Bildungsroman. This book is either a novel with a poor plot or a poor Bildungsroman where the character remains stagnant or, perhaps, both.
On the positive side, though, we still have half a novel to see if either Rickie grows or a better interrelated sequential plot develops. Also, besides the Chapter X beginnings, I have found the writing fairly easy to read, even when unclear.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I find Forster's writing style clear and very readable, even though I think the plot is a mess.

I didn't see this post earlier, thanks to goodreads glitches, or I would have responded sooner.

Since it's now Sunday, we can discuss the next section-Sawston, in the new thread.

[Piyangie]

Rosemarie wrote: "Here is the poem, found on p. 137 (Chapter 13) in the edition I'm using:

"I never was attached to that great sect
Whose doctrine is that each one should select
Out of the world a mistress or a fr..."

This is beautiful. I was so touched when I read it. I must find the full poem.