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Rhododendrum Pie Start date: 7th of May SPOILER thread
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Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!
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May 08, 2021 02:07PM
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I read this a few weeks ago, so in no particular order, from what I can recall:- couldn’t believe Ann was really going to marry filmmaker guy. I gathered from the ending that he and essayist sister were lovers? She made some internal remark about hoping the parents didn’t find out, I believe, which surprised me, because I thought in their family, they would have applauded her choice.
- what was going on with spoiled brother Dick? When Ann is visiting London and sees his sculptures, I gather he’s not terribly original or talented, and he’s always in a huff, or rude. Was he in love with that wonderful, funny, flaky girl (can’t remember her name) who befriended Ann, and always had aspiring lovers in train? But she wasn’t interested in him? She was a fascinating character, reminded me of a very modern young woman, uncaring of what society thought, indulging her own desires as young men did. I was hoping we’d learn more about her at the end, but we don’t. She deserves her own book!
- the father was truly awful in the end, I couldn’t believe he’d be such a jerk to his own daughter, risking her happiness, just about destroying a perfectly fine young man just because he was too normal or dull or straightlaced. I was cheering for the mother at the end, she really came through, a shame she didn’t do it sooner.
- back to Dick, I wasn’t so much surprised that he hung around the awful, rich American girl, but why move in with a different woman at the end when his lease is up? Is Dick a gigolo, or gold digger, living off wealthy women? I wouldn’t put it past him, he seems quite a selfish, ineffective, immoral young man, but I doubt he’d be very good at it. Of course, maybe he has charm to go with good looks, just doesn’t waste it on family.
- I read in another review that the unspoken belief is the father drank, and may have caused the mother’s crippling accident. And later, with comments about his trips abroad and the collection of beautiful blankets he brings back for the mother, I gather we’re supposed to assume he cheats on mother regularly? He really is a prize! If she controls the money, and clearly runs the household, I’m really surprised she doesn’t kick him to the curb - I guess not done back then, but it wasn’t completely unheard of - I like to think after her forceful speech in the end, she exerts her authority a bit more in future.
Dick seems like a classic idle rotter, expecting other people to take care of him all the time. I think he moved in with the other woman simply because it was convenient! And she shouldn’t expect him to be in any way loyal or grateful to her, because for sure he won't be.The whole triangle of the sister, the filmmaker, and Ann is a bit odd. Perhaps some of it can be understood in the context of popular “wisdom” (now less popular, thank heaven) about wives versus mistresses. Men supposedly wanted a certain type of person, more Ann-like, to be the mother of their children and to keep their home, to entertain people they wanted to impress at work, etc. They wanted a woman who enjoyed sex without commitment or responsibility for a mistress. The sister seems more like mistress material. Perhaps the filmmaker was envisioning such arrangements with the two sisters. Personally, I kept thinking he might be gay and looking for a “beard” in making up to Ann, but I guess not.
I loved loved loved it when the mother finally spoke up! She did it so effectively, too. The author set that up really well, showing us the mother first through the husband's assumptions about her, then a bit through Ann's eyes when she had to run the household for a while. I kind of hoped the mother would speak up and was awfully glad when she did. I thought the same thing as you about the father coming back from trips with gifts for his wife. They reeked of guilt.
Abigail wrote: "Dick seems like a classic idle rotter, expecting other people to take care of him all the time. I think he moved in with the other woman simply because it was convenient! And she shouldn’t expect h..."Excellent points about Dick and his father, I agree. Dick seemed so evasive about his romantic entanglements, I wasn’t sure what was going on, but yes, woe unto any woman who expects monogamy, gratitude from him!
And you’re right about the mother/wife vs. the mistress, but sisters, ick! I agree, I also thought he might be gay, but I guess not. Sadly, whether a mistress or a wife, I didn’t get the impression the eldest sister got much enjoyment out of anything. Dick either, really- I’m afraid the joys of sex and romance were wasted on them.
I was glad Ann got to see all that went into the domestic comforts the family enjoyed; easy to turn your nose up at it, until you’re the one expected to see to it all! Not that Ann would do that - I so liked her as a character!
RE: liking Ann, me too—interesting way for the author to set her up as an underdog and make us want to root for her. You’d expect the character aspiring to be extraordinary to be the protagonist in a story, but instead it was the character aspiring to be ordinary. I loved that, especially coming from a young author. At that age, I was all about standing out, excelling, and becoming famous for my talents—how much trouble I would’ve saved myself if all I wanted had been to be normal!
Abigail wrote: "RE: liking Ann, me too—interesting way for the author to set her up as an underdog and make us want to root for her. You’d expect the character aspiring to be extraordinary to be the protagonist in..."Hah, very good point! I was the same - I wish I could help my son, who is 25, realize that being ordinary isn’t a curse, you can have quite a pleasant life, actually! But I guess wisdom comes with age - as you say, makes it even more extraordinary for a young author in her debut to hit on this revelation.
How do you all interpret the very end, with her son’s disappointment in the pink icing flowers on his piece of cake? Was he wishing they were real flowers ... suggesting that he may be more like Ann’s siblings than like Ann or John? I’m not sure how else to read it. Definitely her father was cheating on his trips. He and his son were both pretty awful people.
Yes, that’s how I took the ending too. Just goes to show that kids can be disappointed in their parents regardless of how hard the parents try! Wouldn’t put it past grandpa to use that as a wedge.
Abigail wrote: "Yes, that’s how I took the ending too. Just goes to show that kids can be disappointed in their parents regardless of how hard the parents try! Wouldn’t put it past grandpa to use that as a wedge."Exactly, I took it as our personal idea of “perfect” may not please someone we think we know and love, and whose interests we have at heart. The age-old dilemma of parents- you do your best to give a highly subjective “everything” to your kids, but there will always be something else they find missing!
Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Yes, that’s how I took the ending too. Just goes to show that kids can be disappointed in their parents regardless of how hard the parents try! Wouldn’t put it past grandpa to use t..."Hadn’t thought about that, Abigail, but ugh, yes, I can see “grandpere” doing something like that...
Oh, my gosh, this was a winner! I enjoyed it tremendously, especially the universal theme of trying to fit into a family that has incompatible views with one's own. In this case, it wasn't the brilliant child struggling to rise above an ordinary family, but just the opposite. The family represented the kind of people I most dislike: arrogant, opinionated, and believing themselves to be better than their neighbours. We see this today on both sides of the political spectrum and everywhere between. I'm not sure whether the family members got their comeuppance, or just wrote off poor Ann as unsalvageable, but it was a most satisfactory conclusion.
However, I did not care for the final paragraph. I thought the author was trying to be a little too precious there.
This was such an unexpected pleasure. I had no idea Margery Sharp wrote for adults and this had a very interesting cast of characters. I agree that the father obviously cheated and he is quite a self-important person. Dick just seemed such an unhappy person. I get the idea that he felt he had to do something creative, knew he wasn't that good at it and felt trapped. He is also moving from woman to woman as he cannot get the one he really wants, Delia.I liked Ann very much. Her mother is this unobtrusive character, but I felt that she obviously played a major role in managing the household so that it always functioned in the way the rest of the family expected, but which they had no idea how to achieve.
Really enjoyed this very much.
I really enjoyed this, although it’s not my favorite Margery Sharp. It seems to me that all the Laventies (except Ann and her mother) talked a good game, but never really accomplished anything. I agree with Elinor about the last line. Maybe MS was trying to keep the ending from being too sweet, but I found it jarring.
Yes, I don't disagree with the point Sharp was trying to make with that ending, but the handling of it was, well, amateurish. One of the few signs that this was her first novel. But it was a very minor beef for me.
I thought it was remarkably confident and daring for a first novel! I loved it so much I went to Abe Books and scarfed up a copy of every one of her books that’s not currently available in paperback. If she could do this at age twenty-four, I can’t wait to see what she’ll do in later books.
Carolien wrote: "This was such an unexpected pleasure. I had no idea Margery Sharp wrote for adults and this had a very interesting cast of characters. I agree that the father obviously cheated and he is quite a se..."Thank you, good points - I agree about Dick, I suspect he really wanted Delia, and that explained his hopping from woman to woman. I like your insight that he felt he should do something creative, but realized he wasn’t a very good sculptor; I was appalled at Ann’s internal monologue about his sculptures, I thought he’d be devastated if a critic panned his work! I’d be curious if he showed his work much - I’d think if he suspected it was bad, he’d avoid that at all costs.
Peggy wrote: "I really enjoyed this, although it’s not my favorite Margery Sharp. It seems to me that all the Laventies (except Ann and her mother) talked a good game, but never really accomplished anything. I..."
Definitely agree about the accomplishments of the Laventies - or lack thereof.
Abigail wrote: "I thought it was remarkably confident and daring for a first novel! I loved it so much I went to Abe Books and scarfed up a copy of every one of her books that’s not currently available in paperbac..."Abigail wrote: "I thought it was remarkably confident and daring for a first novel! I loved it so much I went to Abe Books and scarfed up a copy of every one of her books that’s not currently available in paperbac..."
Yes, I definitely want to read more Sharp!
I hear Cluny Brown is supposed to be really good.
Abigail wrote: "I hear Cluny Brown is supposed to be really good."I’ve heard the same, sounds like a good one!
message 21:
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Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!
(last edited May 24, 2021 01:31PM)
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To be honest I read the ending twice & still didn't get it! It could have been written better.
Agreed with most of the other points.
I had the feeling that Elizabeth spent so much time editing & proofing her work that she would never publish.
The father & Dick were completely awful - I'm surprised anyone visited them at all! Those horrible supercilious types that make everyone else uncomfortable.
I wonder if the mother would have liked visitors?
& I was certainly cheering during her Big Speech! 😊
Very accomplished for a first novel!
message 22:
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Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!
(last edited May 24, 2021 01:43PM)
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A misleading spoiler - the worst kind. I may rewrite it - for my edition anyway.
Edit: Someone beat me to it for my edition, but I corrected it on another edition.
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I wonder how John & Ann will cope if their son is a Laventrie?
