21st Century Literature discussion
2015 Book Discussions
>
The Bone Clocks - Part II: Myrrh is Mine, its bitter perfume. (February 2015)
date
newest »
newest »
Thanks, Whitney. You know more than me. I've been trying to interpret it while dealing with other distractions, but haven't come up with any particular insights (yet).In the book, it was used as a proof of the capacity for telepathy. However, that doesn't mean that it has no other contextual meaning.
Thanks so much, Ian. I'll look this over when I'm more awake. I'm curious about whether the Anchorites are cherry-picking and/or Mitchell in this reference is hinting at more than he's put on the page.
Lacewing wrote: "Hi, Ian. I enjoyed your Bone Clocks review and look forward especially to your comments on the fantasy/metaphysical/etc aspects."Thanks, Lacewing. Today is the first time since I read and reviewed the book that I've opened it up. I took voluminous notes about a lot of these issues that I didn't use in my review. I had so much more I wanted to say, but I ended up trying to praise its playfulness, despite the onslaught of stylistic criticism that had commenced.
I would love to have known about this group then and been able to read it together then.
Anyway, I've brought my copy upstairs, so I can consult it!
During my first reading, I was cranky about analysis and did not do my usual thing with index tabs and penciled notes in the margins. For now, I'm sticking to that kind of first reading. (Also different for me is to discuss as I go rather than hold out for the conclusion thread. So far it's making a difference in how attentive I am to detail. Yes, there is a great deal to say about this book, and yes, this crew has a knack for working together.
I thought of Jacko when I read the poem. And of course Hugo uses Jacko as the emotional means of opening Holly up. As a side note I think Mitchell's doing a good job of keeping Jacko alive in our reading of the book and it's becoming one of the compelling mysteries. Where is he, what happened to him, will we see him again?
BTW, Hugo encounters sage twice. Once on Holly's windowsill and then in the Anchorites' soup.My reaction is to look for other points in which good guys and bad guys are similar. I was already primed to do this after my first reading. Maybe this and other things were processed somewhat subliminally.
In part 1, Holly sees a picture in Heidi's cottage of a bird on a spade. Hugo at home sees a bird on a spade being eaten by a cat. Both I'm sure refer to The Secret Garden.
Another wink towards the romantic poets (Shelley) from Mitchell? Made me think of the lure of Miss Constantin and her talk with Hugo about the threshold between life and death. Thus to be lost and thus to sink and die,
Perchance were death indeed!—Constantia, turn!
In thy dark eyes a power like light doth lie,
Even though the sounds which were thy voice, which burn
Between thy lips, are laid to sleep;
Within thy breath, and on thy hair, like odour, it is yet,
And from thy touch like fire doth leap.
Even while I write, my burning cheeks are wet.
Alas, that the torn heart can bleed, but not forget!
Violet wrote: "Another wink towards the romantic poets (Shelley) from Mitchell? Made me think of the lure of Miss Constantin and her talk with Hugo about the threshold between life and death..."Brilliant find!
One of those Jungian moments of synchronicity. I opened a biography of Virginia Woolf and my eye alighted on this: "Neville may have in mind the opening line of Shelley's "To Constantia, Singing: 'Thus to be lost and thus to sink and die.'
You don't come across the word "perchance" much. It appears in Hamlet, and was appropriated by Jonathan Franzen in an essay now called "Why Bother?", originally published as "Perchance to Dream: In the Age of Images, a Reason to Write Novels".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Both...
Violet, yes, yes, yes! Please bring Jung into the whole book wrap up.
I can't comment any more on the early threads as I've finished the book but it is fascinating now to read these comments in light of how it all ends. So glad to read this one with all of you!
I'm late to these comments but wanted to weigh in on Hugo. I noticed above that people seemed mystified by Holly's attraction to Hugo. But we have seen what a fine actor he is when with his family at Christmas, who believe him to be: charming, brilliant, caring, dutiful. He is also blonde, athletic, gorgeous, highly educated and attentively charming. Add to that his transparency about his efforts to cross paths repeatedly with her ... and anyone would look twice! There is class interplay between them as well. They notice each others' accents, for example. She doesn't stand a chance ;)
Also, Julie, there's the thrilling challenge of redeeming a rake!
Lacewing wrote: "Violet, yes, yes, yes! Please bring Jung into the whole book wrap up."My first ever room in Florence had the complete works of Carl Jung sitting on a shelf. No other books, just those, as if someone had left them for me. although on closer inspection i saw one was missing - volume 13: Alchemical studies. Can't say i read 'em all but i did grow increasingly intrigued by the missing volume. Felt like i was in a novel and that volume held all the vital secrets.
I read Cloud Atlas, but I didn't think about the Hugo/Frobisher similarities until I read this thread. Definitely agreed on that one. Like Holly, Hugo felt real, warts and all. I liked reading him even if I didn't think he was a typical golden hearted hero. I also enjoyed seeing the matured Holly from someone else's pov.It was sometime in this section that I started to have a problem with keeping track of the other characters and I started to get frustrated with the threads of the plot, which got mired down in the muck of the minute by minute details of the character's lives. I still enjoyed this section, and I had hopes for what came next. Sigh. The next section. grr.
You're bombing through, Sandy! Yep, keeping track of all the characters and their baggage is a challenge in this book. I suspect it's one of those novels that will really benefit from a second read.
Sandy wrote: "I read Cloud Atlas, but I didn't think about the Hugo/Frobisher similarities until I read this thread. Definitely agreed on that one. Like Holly, Hugo felt real, warts and all. I liked reading him ..."I'd missed the Frobisher similarities as well (it's been ages since I read Cloud Atlas). But yes, there's a definite similarity. I really enjoyed the character of Hugo - I was a little sad when I got to the end of this section.
Yep, Hugo is a compelling creation. Almost warrants a novel of his own. Wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell gives him one seeing as he's already appeared in Black Swan Green
Mod
I've found many fun references to other works. First, there are the little nods to Lord of the Rings here and there. Was it Hugo's teacher who told the class "not to be a gollum"? Then, there was the Rivendell commune, Hugo's mention of slipping on a ring to become invisible, and the moment he wakes up in a cold mountain (made me think of the journey during the Two Towers). Although Hugo doesn't fit in with any of the members of the fellowship, the references made me feel as though someone is about to embark on a journey.
Next, I find there are quite strong references to Thomas Mann's The Magic Mountain. For one thing, Hugo explicitly mentions the book because he was reading it at one point. Also, Hugo describes the club they go to as being a former sanitarium for tuberculosis patients. The Magic Mountain also plays with time, fantastical elements, and takes place in the Swiss Alps. The main character there initially goes to a sanitarium to visit someone but winds up staying for years and losing track of time because he also gets sick. Here, it seems as though both Holly and Hugo lose track of time, either for a few hours or several days.
Since Murakami was mentioned in another thread, I should mention that I also found some similarities with 1Q84. There, we have two characters who know each other as children but then move in different directions, while we wait to find out whether they will find one another again. Although the stories are very different, I find some similarities in the usage of time, structure, and mix of fantasy and reality.
Last point for now - I think the small pieces of fantasy work much better in this section than in Holly's section. While the actions were more exciting in Holly's, they seemed to work better here and didn't feel forced in the same way.
Hugo Weaving was the name of the actor who played the elf king in LOTR. Coincidence?
Mod
Nice catch, Caroline, there are some more nods to LoTR later in the book. Any thoughts on what Mitchell may be getting at with these references?
Some brilliant excavation work there, Caroline. It's been a long time since I read The Magic mountain but I recall there's also that fierce philosophical battle between the two intellectuals which, if my memory serves me well was a kind of humanism vs fascism tussle and as such echoes elements of the Horologist/ Ancorite divide. Also, Hugo would be a kind of negative Hans in this timeless realm, swayed not by the humanist argument but the fascist one. Completely with you about Hugo, compelling character and you're right about him being oddly suitable for the diffident and prickly Holly. Though suitable in the sense that he could also be horribly catastrophic as is the case with strong attraction with its powerful duality of possibility.
Sandy wrote: "Hugo Weaving was the name of the actor who played the elf king in LOTR. Coincidence?"Hugo Weaving was also in the film of Cloud Atlas, not to mention being Agent Smith in The Matrix, both films being made by the Wachowski siblings.
(view spoiler)
Interesting. I guess the answer is that it's no coincidence at all. (as if coincidences exist. pshaw)Who was Weaving in Cloud Atlas? I saw the movie but it was so bad I promptly suppressed any active memory of it.
Haskell Moore / Tadeusz Kesselring / Bill Smoke / Nurse Noakes / Boardman Mephi / Old Georgie
Lacewing wrote: "Hugo Lamb is a creepy piece of work, a right greedy sociopathic bastard. We do however get a glimpse of vulnerable underbelly, just enough to feel some pity before he succumbs to Miss Constantin's ..."I thought perhaps Hugo's character was meant to show the darkness of the supernatural.
We actually only get part of the poem. It's called "Lucy"..."
My understanding is that some academics group it as one of his "Lucy" poems, but Wordsworth himself didn't publish those poems as such, or even publish them together. (Said understanding being based on stuff I read on the internet after seeing the poem in this book.)