Oblomov - Week 7 - Part 4, Chapters 7 - 11

[Gem , Moderator]

This week's reading starts off with Stolz confronting Ivan Matveyevich with his sister's statement that Oblomov owed her nothing. After confronting Matveyevich, Stolz went to his boss who forced him to resign. Following that Matveyevich and Tarantyev cooked up yet another scheme to defraud Oblomov. Surprisingly, when Tarantyev confronted Oblomov, demanding Oblomov give half his property to Tarantyev as compensation for losing his job which they blamed on Oblomov, Oblomov slapped him and had Zakharr throw him out. This was the first time in the book where Oblomov stood up for himself. What do you think caused this? Has Oblomov finally had enough? Did Oblomov realize he was being conned?

There is a stark contrast between Chapter 7 (above) and Chapter 8 which deals mostly with the internal dialogue and stream of consciousness of Stolz and Olga. Did the difference in the style of writing stand out to you? Did you notice it? Do you think the writer did this intentionally?

Next, after we longer hear from Matveyevich and Taratyev, we see the peace and prosperity of Oblomov's household. "... he (Oblomov) decided at last that he had nothing more to strive for, nothing more to seek, that he had attained the ideal of his life..." Oblomov finally seems content, until he has a stoke. Although he recovers he has to give up alcohol, coffee, rich and spicy food, he had to exercise and only sleep at night. Agafya Mateveyevna facilitated these changes in spite of Oblomov's protestations. Why do you think she did this vs. continuing to let Oblomov have his way? It still appears that Oblomov, while changing his lifestyle at the hands of Agafya, is only doing what he absolutely has to. Does this mean he really hasn't changed?

Were you at all surprised to find out Oblomov had married Agafya? And they had a son?

The last two chapters of the book witness much change in the Oblomov household. I enjoyed the fact that we learn about all the characters we have met along the way. The ending, albeit sad, was satisfying. Did you appreciate the way the author wrapped up the book?

This wraps up our reading of Oblomov by Ivan Goncharov. Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussions and I hope you enjoyed this selection as much as I did.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I think the part where Oblomov throws out T. is one of the high points of the book.

While I was reading about the relationship between Olga and Stolz,which was actually a while ago now, I found myself thinking that Oblomov did Olga a big favour in sending her that letter--and an even bigger favour to himself.
Not everyone is an ambitious go-getter. Oblomov knew himself better than anyone and ended up in a comfortable contented situation, thanks to Stolz's efforts on his behalf.

It's sad that he died, but the times were changing, and ideally he should have lived in the past, during his parents' times.

Thanks for leading the discussion, Gem.

[Gem , Moderator]

Rosemarie wrote: " I found myself thinking that Oblomov did Olga a big favour in sending her that letter--and an even bigger favour to himself.

Not everyone is an ambitious go-getter. Oblomov knew himself better than anyone and ended up in a comfortable contented situation"

I agree. Sometimes love just isn't enough. And I think we all intuitively know what is best for us. Others may not agree but one should live authentically to self.

You're welcome. I enjoyed this selection, admittedly Oblomov (the character) aggravated me a bit. I did have to look up some things about the culture and the times to understand some of the context so I learned a thing or two, always a plus for me.

[Lori, Moderator]

I didn't understand exactly why Stolz was so upset with Oblomov that they couldn't be in touch anymore. Was it that Oblomov was neglecting his plans (and responsibilities) related to the estate, or that he married beneath his station, or that he was physically unhealthy, or a combination of these? The estate was being taken care of - if I understand correctly, Oblomov is paying the manager Stolz found for him to do this. His wife, while not aristocratic or educated, is an honest, industrious woman who made him happy. He was living in a nice place, thanks to his money and his wife knowing how to spend it tastefully. It's true that he was much less physically healthy than he had been when he was courting Olga. But it seems like Stolz should have congratulated him.

I was impressed at how Agafya managed to get Oblomov to exercise and eat better, though I suppose it was too late for him to fully recover from the stroke and avoid further strokes, It probably did prolong his life beyond what it otherwise would have been.

[Robin P, Moderator]

I found the part with Olga and Stolz to be a long digression. I wonder if some of the abridged versions leave that out. As far as Oblomov, things really worked out well for him. He was able to get married without having the big production he dreaded and got someone who wanted to take care of him.

It's interesting that even at this time, it was known that rich foods and no exercise could lead to strokes. It seems symbolic too, that the old guard is petrified/frozen/stuck in place as if suffering from a stroke.

[Brian E]

I struggled with this book. Although I enjoyed some of the dialogue, at other times I was unsure of what was being portrayed, leaving me without much insight or observation to offer here.
However, the comments by Gem and other members on here did help me better understand what I had read and left me better prepared for reading the next week's section. I would have had a tough time reading this alone. Thanks everyone.

In the past few years, I have completed the four pre Tolstoy/Dosty Russian novels* I wanted to read. I would rank them in this order, which is nearly the opposite of the order I had expected:
A Hero of Our Time by Mikhail Lermontov
Fathers and Sons by Ivan Turgenev
Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol
Oblomov by Ivan Goncharov
*While Turgenev is arguably their contemporary, Fathers & Sons was published several years prior to the major classics of Tolstoy and Dosty.

[Lori, Moderator]

I haven't read A Hero of Our Time yet. Looks like it's a shorter book, so I'll give it a try.
I've enjoyed most of Gogol's short stories that I've read, but I only enjoyed the first half of Dead Souls.

[Gem , Moderator]

Lori wrote: "I didn't understand exactly why Stolz was so upset with Oblomov that they couldn't be in touch anymore."

Me either, unless Stolz just didn't approve?

[Gem , Moderator]

Robin P wrote: "I found the part with Olga and Stolz to be a long digression."

Oh my, yes. I kept thinking about skipping over what was left of that chapter, it was like "The Song that Never Ends."

The medical advice surprised me as well.

There was also a statement about the entire world freezing over, I thought that was interesting as well.

[Gem , Moderator]

Brian wrote: "I struggled with this book. Although I enjoyed some of the dialogue, at other times I was unsure of what was being portrayed, leaving me without much insight or observation to offer here.
However,..."

I had to look up a lot of things while I was reading to get the cultural references. My husband is a history teacher and his family is from that part of the world so he was also a great resource for me. Still, there were things I'm sure went right over my head or that I did not catch the significance of.

[Lori, Moderator]

Gem wrote: "Oh my, yes. I kept thinking about skipping over what was left of that chapter, it was like "The Song that Never Ends.""

I admit, I skimmed parts of it.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

On a frivolous note, Oblomov is probably a lot more fun to hang around with than Olga and Stolz.
For those who don't know German, Stolz means Proud.

I think one of the reasons he felt he had to cut ties with Oblomov is that Oblomov married out of his class. I guess Oblomov's happiness with his new wife wasn't as important as her class. She looks like a very loving, caring person to me.

[Gem , Moderator]

Lori wrote: "Gem wrote: "Oh my, yes. I kept thinking about skipping over what was left of that chapter, it was like "The Song that Never Ends.""

I admit, I skimmed parts of it."

Ha, glad I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

[Brian E]

Rosemarie wrote: "On a frivolous note, Oblomov is probably a lot more fun to hang around with than Olga and Stolz."

More fun? If your idea of fun is not going out, staying in and pulling a chair up to his bed and listening to him. I guess you could get some activity in getting Obly his drink and food.
(An even more frivolous note :)

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

He's a good listener, Brian.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Brian wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "On a frivolous note, Oblomov is probably a lot more fun to hang around with than Olga and Stolz."

More fun? If your idea of fun is not going out, staying in and pulling a chair u..."

That's apparently what Oblomov wanted and what made Agafya happy.

[Brian E]

Rosemarie wrote: "He's a good listener, Brian."

True. If he lived now I picture him laying in bed listening to audiobooks which he might like better than TV since he wouldn't even need to open his eyes.

[Bigollo]

I have to admit, I shed some tears when finished the book.

As one critic pointed out -- many people loved this eccentric man: Zakhar, Alekseyev, Stolz, Olga... And here is a paradox: The person, who loved him most, buried him first metaphorically - by killing last hope for him to crawl out of Oblomovism, and then literally..

[Bigollo]

Upon having watched the movie - many years ago, I took up joking: Man, this movie is about me!

Now, after reading the book, I don't say that any more.

Turned out, book and movie differ a great deal.

Oblomov is more honest, more brave, more independent in his views, finally - happier than me.

[Detlef]

I liked this book a lot, some of it was a bit lengthy though (the parts with Stolz and Olga, I agree).
Oblomov in the end got what he always wanted, and he was content. Stolz could not accept this. In his view it was a wasted life. He could not understand Oblomov, this was beyond the scope of his acceptable world view.
At least Oblomov could spend some of his life in bliss, stroke and all notwithstanding. That’s more than a lot of people can say about themselves.

[Robin P, Moderator]

What about the child being sent off for a "better life"? It's certainly clear anyone would be objectively better off with Stolz and Olga but it seems cruel to Agafya.

While I wouldn't want Oblomov's passive life, it seemed to be right for him. I am reminded of the movie Dinner with Andre. Does anyone remember that? The Andre character talks about traveling the world to have all kinds of experiences, including being buried alive in some ritual. He deplores humans being cosseted away from the natural world and not being really alive. The other character, Wallace Shawn, says something like, "Well, I like to get up in the morning, have a little coffee cake and a cup of coffee" - I so identified with him! "Everyday life" is exciting enough for me. If I found I only had a short time to live, I don't think I would take off for world adventures, I would prefer to mostly keep doing what I have been doing.

In the movie, it seemed Andre was doing all these dramatic things only for himself. Stolz is not just accumulating wealth, power and knowledge, but trying to help others, such as people on the estate, and of course Oblomov.

If this whole thing is a metaphor/symbol for the useless aristocracy vs. modern energy, what is Goncharov telling us? Is it inevitable that the "new man" Stolz will win out? Interestingly, Stolz has German blood. Are the ethnic Russians doomed without outside help?

[Gem , Moderator]

Robin P wrote: "If this whole thing is a metaphor/symbol for the useless aristocracy vs. modern energy, what is Goncharov telling us? Is it inevitable that the "new man" Stolz will win out? Interestingly, Stolz has German blood. Are the ethnic Russians doomed without outside help?"

Excellent questions Robin. This is where I get into trouble when I read, I'm pretty literal and wouldn't have thought of any of these questions. Thank you!

[Robin P, Moderator]

Well, I wouldn't have thought about the symbolic side if I hadn't read somewhere about how it is interpreted.

[Charlotte]

This book is a collection of many different truths about life, many passages that I felt described exactly something that I have felt. It takes some time to process.

Thanks for moderating, Gem!

Soon I will go on to watching the movie that Bigollo recommended.

[Gem , Moderator]

Charlotte wrote: "Thanks for moderating, Gem!"

My pleasure, thank you for participating.