Olive Kitteridge - Whole Book Discussion (spoilers)

[Vesna]

Here's a place to discuss the entire book, spoilers are fine. I'll add some of my questions and comments when I finish it soon. Everyone who has read it, now or earlier, is warmly invited to participate. Please share your thoughts and initiate a discussion about any aspect of the book.

[Mark]

I'm a few chapters (?) in, and quite charmed. The characters feel true and not too sweet.

[LindaJ^]

Stroudt does not write sweet characters. I've read all her books and in each her characters are very realistic, never sweet but imbued with human traits, some good and some less than good.

[Mark]

Linda, Yes, Olive is a person that can feel vindictive -- and act on it -- in one instant, then go out of her way to help an anorexic the next.

[Mark]

Tulips. Yikes! Strout is like a vengeful Yahweh to her characters! Well, nobody gets out of life alive, and here Strout sure makes sure we are reminded. Constantly.

[Mark]

It's an interesting inverse of Chiang's "Story of Your Life." In Chiang's story, Louise develops the ability to look forward through her life, and (really as part of that ability) accepts both the good and the tragedy to come. In Stroudt's stories, her characters are generally looking backwards, but the mix of joy and tragedy is parallel. Both Stroudt and Chiang build their narratives through layers of time jumps.

Toward the end, I was getting a little shellshocked by the seemingly inevitable bad turn that was sure to show up in the form of a seemingly trivial detail or phrase. Fortunately, there was always an awareness of an underlying human goal of compassion, as when Olive was feeling a pity that she couldn't even accept for herself for her abductor in the hospital.

[Hugh]

I enjoyed the book a lot, but one thing did annoy me a little - because of the way each chapter is a self contained story, there are too many recapitulations of events that were still very fresh in the memory.

[Vesna]

It's been a hectic week, but I am so glad I found the time to meet Olive and the townspeople in her Maine again, and finish the book. It would be too long to share my main impressions in this type of forum and, while I usually don't link to my reviews, most of my thoughts are expressed here. For now, I think my concluding comment says it all:

If I would have to present only one and the same gift to any friend of mine, I would not have a second thought that it would have to be the two fascinating volumes of Olive Kitteridge and Olive, Again. And, if there could be an additional bonus, a ticket to Strout's native Maine.

[Vesna]

Hugh wrote: "I enjoyed the book a lot, but one thing did annoy me a little - because of the way each chapter is a self contained story, there are too many recapitulations of events that were still very fresh in..."

It's interesting because I didn't notice recapitulations and actually thought that one of the marvels of her writing was in bringing back the characters from previous stories in a very subtle way, showing them in different circumstances that added yet another layer to what we already know about their life stories. I was just in awe at how Strout delicately interlinked individual characters and stories into the novel structure. But this is one of my favorite genres so I am much more receptive to it.

[Hugh]

The first one I noticed was about Christopher's first marriage, which is described in "A Little Burst". In the next story "Starving" we get a little summary of the marriage from Harmon's perspective - which is admittedly not quite a straight recapitulation. I think the intention was to make each story sufficiently self-contained to be read independently of the rest of the book. I suspect I am being over-critical.

[Vesna]

Hugh wrote: "The first one I noticed was about Christopher's first marriage, which is described in "A Little Burst". In the next story "Starving" we get a little summary of the marriage from Harmon's perspective..."

Speaking of stories, and I very much agree with you that each (or just about each) can be read independently, I wonder what stories strike us the most. I'm reluctant to say "favorite" but rather those that moved us a bit more than others.

Here's my list (in the order they appear in the book):
"Pharmacy" (oh, I loved Henry, such a lovely and gentle soul)
"Incoming Tide"
"Starving"
"Tulips"
"Security"
"River"
- and also:
"A Little Burst" (I know it's mischievous, but I had fun reading what Olive did to sabotage the controlling perfectionism of her future daughter-in-law)
"Criminal"

There was only one story ("Ship in a Bottle") that I think I need to re-read to see if I missed something in it, because it didn't resonate with me.

[Sam]

I think one of my favorite things about the book is how different stories have appealed to me with each reread, showing not only changes in my own perspective and mood, but my response in respect to changes in the society as a whole, This time around I most enjoyed in order :
Security
Basket of Trips
Tulips

Today's sociopolitical climate interfered with my appreciation of the humorous aspects of Olive as a lovable narrow-minded opinionated and judgmental curmudgeon, hence Security as number one.

Ship in a Bottle was a little more experimental I think, doesn't fit the whole as well as others, and has a exaggerated dramatic moment, but I liked what Strout was trying to accomplish with the story.

[Gregory]

I think my favorite story in Olive Kitteridge is the one where, door-knocking for Red Cross donations, she first meets Nina, a young anorexic runaway. The sight of her skeletal frame makes Olive suddenly start crying, before she comforts Nina enough to persuade her to call her mother for help. Though blunt and nosy, often sharing insta-opinions of people she’s newly met, Olive clearly prizes honesty, loyalty, family and common sense. And for all her strong, take-charge qualities, she is also shown to be deeply human, with her share of surprising moments. Here’s my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Marc]

I thought the "recapitulations" worked relatively well in that they deepened the connections and gave slightly different perspectives, but I also suspect Hugh's memory is much better than mine, so I probably welcomed many of the reminders.

I found it rather fascinating how quickly endeared I became to both Olive and their small town. And despite, some pretty bleak and dark subject matter/occurrences, it felt threaded with a current of hope/gratitude (I'm not sure those are really the best words for it, but I just finished the book this morning and am still letting it all settle).

I think my favorite story/chapter was probably "Tulips." It's quite dark, but Louise Larkin seems like the only one who is as blunt as Olive and it manages to be quite disturbing but still funny in parts. I like how Strout manages to straddle these two dynamics throughout. She keeps the reader hooked with rumors/abbreviated mentions of events so that you're waiting to see what it is that caused a change or broke a family, etc., etc.

[Leslee]

Vesna wrote: "Hugh wrote: "I enjoyed the book a lot, but one thing did annoy me a little - because of the way each chapter is a self contained story, there are too many recapitulations of events that were still ..."

Vesna wrote: "Hugh wrote: "I enjoyed the book a lot, but one thing did annoy me a little - because of the way each chapter is a self contained story, there are too many recapitulations of events that were

I liked the subtle repetition as well. Given the limited time I sometimes have to read, I had some pauses between stories that perhaps made them feel a little fresher to me.

[Bretnie]

I'm popping out of lurking to say I'm enjoying this discussion even though I'm only reading it. :)

I read this a while back and only remembered how sad I felt reading it, but I'm appreciating all the little details you guys are reminding me the book contains.

[Joe]

I loved all of the stories and found Olive to be a genuinely caring figure, even if she can be a little brusque at times. My favorite stories were

Pharmacy: A great introduction to the main characters but especially highlighting Henry’s kind personality.

Incoming Tide: I really liked how the turbulent weather mirrored the inner torment in the young man’s thoughts. But it also showed Olive’s caring side when she didn’t leave him alone as if she sensed what he planned to do.

Tulips: This one really touched me. It was very sad when Henry collapsed and also to see Olive’s loneliness without him.

River: An inspiring concluding story about how we should never take anything or any moment for granted.

The entire book was a 5-star reading for me. Now happily off to continue with Olive, Again!

[Pamela]

I’ve been really interested reading how much people loved this book, and it has actually made me think harder about why I didn’t feel the same.

Let me say I didn’t hate it, I felt it was about 3.5* for me, but I rounded up as I thought the writing was good. I also really liked how it showed that there are two perspectives to every situation, and no one has the monopoly on being right or wrong.

For me, it was just too miserable. Not dark or bleak, just a procession of unhappy situations for people who have wasted their lives (willingly or otherwise) in regrets, illness, tragedy, stubborn refusal to see the other side.

I’m pleased Marc saw the glimmer of hope - I was looking for it and it briefly flickered at the end for Olive but was soon extinguished by the last story which made sure we ended on a downbeat note. I would just have preferred more light and shade throughout, that would have appealed more to my personal emotions.

[Marc]

Would we consider Olive as a kind of antihero?
That’s a question that’s been on my mind since finishing.

“Miserable” is a great word to sum up so much of the book’s circumstances, Pamela. Misfortunes that invoke pity in the reader. And they seem to be a combination of bad choices and bad luck. Somehow the book felt “light” to me and yet it covers infidelity, suicide, eating disorders, divorce, dying, falling out of love, murder, trauma, hostage-taking, and that’s not even everything!

In a sense, life has no choice but to be tragedy in that we are all going to die some day. And there is no escaping some level of pain and suffering. But that is also what makes the small joys all the more intense. Whether it’s the routines we take comfort from, the parrots who admonish our curse words, or the opportunities we still have every day to repair relationships, fall back in love, or just help someone in need, there are moments that make life meaningful and enjoyable. Strout (autocorrect keeps calling her “Sprout!”) managed to capture that for me.

[Vesna]

Very interesting discussion and unsurprising whenever the book is about a character we are not seemingly supposed to like, in this case because she can be brash, but we do. I can see your dilemma, Marc, whether that would make her an antihero. Despite all her prickliness, it was her good-heartedness and straightforward honesty that won me over. There is indeed a lot of sadness and loneliness in most life stories in that small town, but there is also the quiet sort of kindness and caring to help even strangers.

The lack of uplifting and jolly moments were for me more than compensated by the warmth of the human heart of quite a few townspeople, including Olive. Like when, despite the odd situation, Daisy, Harmon and Olive try to save a complete stranger, Nina, from starving herself to death ("Starving" to which Gregory alludes) or when Olive actually saves the lives of her two former students, as Joe wrote, by instinctively feeling that Kevin needed to be saved from the darkness of his, as it turned out suicidal, thoughts who then in turn, by sheer coincidence, saves Patty's life, the girl who used to be frightened of him when they were young ("Rising Tide").

While not joyful, such stories were nonetheless heart-warming and remind us that everyone has the inner life behind the outside persona which often needs the simple gesture of a helping hand.

[Ava Catherine]

I read this book when it was first published, and it was a favorite then because it is a rare look at an elderly, unvarnished character. However, Strout gives an insight into Olive’s vulnerability that lies hidden beneath seemingly impenetrable strength. Olive reminds us of proud elders in our communities who seem abrupt and crusty but crave the simplest human touch. It is a lovely book.

[Vesna]

Very well said, Ava. Strout surely gave voice to the elderly. On one of the many pages I bookmarked, Olive says: "Seven stages of life? Is that what Shakespeare said? Why, old age alone had seven stages! In between you prayed to die in your sleep. But she was glad she had not died; here was her family—and here was the ice cream shop...”

[LindaJ^]

There are a lot of Olives in small towns throughout the Great State of Maine. Don't just visit the coast. Meander inland to the center and north to the County (Aroostook).

[Marc]

LindaJ^ wrote: "There are a lot of Olives in small towns throughout the Great State of Maine. Don't just visit the coast. Meander inland to the center and north to the County (Aroostook)."

Reading about Olive is wonderful. Not really sure how hanging out with Olive would be...

[Melissa]

I’m just reading this now. I really liked Incoming Tide so far. I am impressed with how Olive just got in the car and started talking to the young man.