Ersatz TLS discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Weekly TLS
>
What Are We Reading? 15 March 2021
message 151:
by
Bill
(new)
Mar 18, 2021 02:50PM


reply
|
flag

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well but only the thought police will say they can’t. (And there are plenty of them around).
I was horrified to hear that although Amanda Gorman asked for Marieke Rijnefeld to do the Dutch translation of her poem, she was turned down as she was the wrong colour.

Yes, Justine persuaded me to read Mrs Palfrey, too, last year, maybe the year before, and it is a little quiet delight. I have passed on the recommendation to others.
Tam MrC was able to get some anti dazzle glasses from the optician for night driving which have helped.
Thank you for the good wishes, all done again, I am not really a coward and have eight weeks before the next injection. They are referring me to what is called a low vision centre where, I am told, there are all the latest visual aid gadgets. It seems that there is a change of policy to a more holistic approach, sounds good.
I sat in this quiet corridor waiting for three quarters of an hour and thought how much I miss Justine for we compared eye clinic notes. A white haired lady eventually joined me, all twitchy and wanting to talk, social distancing kept us well apart and, although I felt a tad guilty I sat still and remembered.

Yes, Justine persuaded me to read Mrs Palfrey, too, last year, maybe the year before, and it is a little quiet delight. I have passed on the recommendation to others.
Tam MrC was able to get ..."
gosh i miss Justine, CCC, same generation as my mother and full of interesting observations, humour and wit. i always thinks its good to sit still and remember things about somebody who has passed, to slow the minutes down and just reflect. Its probably easier in these pandemic times to slow the minutes down and just remember


This was a memoire of sorts, detailing how John E. Douglas developed the process of criminal profiling and created the Behavioural Sciences Unit in the FBI.
The crimes are truly awful - murders, rape etc. Mr Douglas (now retired) had an uncanny knack of being able to describe (in general terms) who the perpetrator was based on evidence gathered at the scene of the crime.
I was rather unsettled reading this, as to be expected. There were interviews with incarcerated offenders, most notably Ed Kemper and Charles Manson who Douglas used to try and determine the 'why' behind the crimes.
What was interesting though was the use of these (and other) cases to highlight the 'nature' versus 'nurture' elements underpinning the criminals behaviour. Other focal pints include the use of the 'insanity plea' which has been used extensively by defence attorneys during trial.
This book is perhaps a little out of date (the documented cases occurred mostly in the 1970/80's), but I think it is a good read.
I'm very happy today, because my wonderful local library is still providing a 'book and collect' service. I've just bagged All the Lonely People by Mike Gayle and Home Stretch by Graham Norton.

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well but only the thought police will say they can’t. (And there..."
I think the translation argument is taking the question Fran brought up even one step further.
I would say if there is a Black, young, female translator who is competent to translate Amanda Gorman into Dutch the job should go to her. I assume it is harder to for a Black translator to find work in a predominantly white country.
But that is not the only point that has been made. The other one is where it gets sticky:
the postulate that a translator has to have a certain background, certain attributes, to be able to empathize with the original.
A Black German translator even questioned whether a white translator would have the linguistic sensitivity required to avoid offending some readers.
Where does that leave (or take) us? If we hold on to "whats good for the goose is good for the gander":
A Black young female Dutch translator cannot translate anything written by a white middle-aged male writer. No Black translator can translate a white writer.
A gay translator cannot translate anything by a straight writer and vice versa. A gay man can also not translate the work of a gay woman and vice versa.
A book written by a Muslim can only be translated by a Muslim. The equivalent rule applies to all religions.
As "the past is a foreign country", nobody can really translate classic literature anymore.
etc pp....
The ravines of Absurdistan are beckoning. Watch your step.
"Perfect is the enemy of good". Discuss.
Just checked the translator of "Mercy" and "Love" by Toni Morrison. The translation is excellent, I couldn't wish for a better one. They were translated around the year 17 resp 10 BtCW by Thomas Piltz, German, white, male.
Martin Luther King arguably gave one of the greatest speeches of all time. I wonder what he would say today.
I quite liked this opinion piece:
https://forward.com/opinion/465983/am...
CCC – Thirty injections??? It sounds terrible. All the best.
Children’s books - Dipping enjoyably into “Pooh and the Philosophers” by John Tyerman Williams, one of a whole series, including management studies. Bees - Kant - noumena - honey. I’m thinking of tackling the classic Latin texts “Winnie ille Pu” and “Domus Anguli Puensis”.

I guess most are fans of the more popular novels not The Longest Journey

The Happy Man: A Tale of Horror by Eric C. Higgs

This is really solid entertainment throughout.
Its one of those novels for which it really pays not to read and summaries, or detailed reviews of.
I read an eBook, but I believe even reading the jacket notes is something of a spoiler.
In the first few pages we know that the narrator, Charles Ripley, is a murderer, but the interest is in why, and how he got to this stage.
First published in 1985, it was out of print for many years, but reissued by those wonderful people at Valancourt.


I've read most of Graham Joyce and hadn't come across a weak novel until this.
It may appeal to some, but not to me. If it is to be termed a 'twist' in its conclusion, it certainly wasn't to me; I had expected it pretty much all the way through.
Its a pity, beacuse he is one of my favourite British writers.
AB76 wrote: "Any Forster fans here? Doesnt seem so sadly....
I guess most are fans of the more popular novels not The Longest Journey"
I'm a Forster fan, but haven't read The Longest Journey. I see here in GR that our beloved samye88 gave it five stars, though.
I guess most are fans of the more popular novels not The Longest Journey"
I'm a Forster fan, but haven't read The Longest Journey. I see here in GR that our beloved samye88 gave it five stars, though.

The only Forster I’ve ever read, and that more than once, is “The Machine Stops”, a frequent selection in anthologies of early SF.
At one of the last book sales before COVID, I bought a copy of Howards End because of the reported Wagnerian / musical influence on its structure.
Thinking about this, I realized that I’ve only read one literary work that became a Merchant / Ivory production: The Wild Party – which was a violation of their supposed fidelity to the texts they adapt. They moved the setting to 1920s Hollywood and made the whole affair much swankier, bringing in hints of actual silent-era film-world scandals; the original, set in New York City, is decidedly more low-rent and low-life.



I guess most are fans of the more popular novels not The Longest Journey"
I'm a Forster fan, but haven't read [book:The Longest Journe..."
thanks LL....five stars, high praise

The only Forster I’ve ever read, and that more than once, is “The Machine Stops”, a frequent selection in anthologies of early SF.
At one of the last book sa..."
I have heard that short story referred to a lot, i guess as it was a topic rare in his fiction as far as i can see, being proto-SF

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well but only the thought police will say the..."
I think the whole problem is becoming, increasingly, a bit of a minefield. I would support the idea of translation jobs being given to up and coming translators, as long as they are just as competent, of course, but I also would support the authors choice of translator as well.
It is interesting to me that there seems to be a bit of a generation gap, perhaps. My son, who is 33, is much more in favour of people being 'qualified', for a particular writing job, by shared commonality of background etc., than I am. I just think anyone who is good at the job, and is wanted, can do it...
When I sent him the Catalan translators comments he didn't seem to agree with them at all, but he is a 'historian' so perhaps thinks that all 'dead' people can be translated by anyone who is up for it, so therefore its only a question to be addressed by the living!...? And of course young people want good jobs whatever the reasons.
As a somewhat ironic tale, my dad was forcibly retired from his full time flying-instructing job at aged 79 I think. He believed that the 'flying authority', the CAA, was 'stitching-up' older pilots like him, by declaring them to have things like 'heart anomalies', in order to clear the way for younger pilots to get the jobs that these 'older' people were so obviously 'sitting upon'!.... My dad died of heart failure, 10 years or so, later!...

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well but only the thought polic..."
did i miss the catalan translator discussion? or was that just an example?

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well but only the t..."
Apologies it was in the original Guardian article which I thought Georg was referring to, but maybe not. here it is
Tamhttps://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

I will accept it gratefully and graciously as Mrs. Palfrey might have. I am missing her already; I started A Single Man, which was a sharp gear change.
I'm still laughing today about some of the more subtly funny scenes, Miss Post hiding the chocolates under a cushion remembering that Mr. Osmond had touched several before committing to an almond one when she'd handed them around previously ... particularly funny when one recalls an earlier scene involving his lavatory etiquette, which Miss Post couldn't have known about. Taylor is particularly skilful at those little in jokes with the reader.
I'll leave my gardening gloves on the hall stand to take safe possession of my membership card.

Absolutely not. It will be blindingly obvious if they don’t do it well b..."
thanks

this selection of translators-gate seems like a real mess, i really think if you are not looking for the best person possible, then its a strange game to play, however woke
if not the best person possible, maybe somebody with a unique style and voice but this is getting silly now. i havent paid it much attention until today but if the relatiively small catalan speaking pool is being filtered out, what happens when its translated into Romansch or something....madness!

There were interesting cases such as a group of FLN assassins in Paris, a case of a german bundeswehr doctor who kills a flasher in Karlsruhe, a comical sequence of cases in a provincial Austrian city, plus the Swiss-German dialect in the courts of Schaffhausen. The english court seems are easily the most dull.
Next non fiction is Thomas De Quincey On Murder which Bill recommended

thats interesting about Rijneveld not speaking great english, dutch fluency is usually very good , of course he may have bene modest about the challenge of translating english rather than speaking it
I remember a trip to Amsterdam where a dutch security guard of surinamese descent chatted in english to me about the dutch east india company and let me into the room of the seventeen where the DEI board members met which was out of bounds.I then discussed the qualities of tomato juice with five other guards of surinamese descent all speaking perfect english, it was a brilliant way to spend two dead hours while i awaited a friend near the university.
the football team has always had a strong surinamese-descent contingent...from my youth

I said: I assume it is harder to for a Black translator to find work in a predominantly white country.
You made of it:
It’s one thing for you to “assume” that there might have been a shortage of suitable candidates
Sorry, my English might be piss-poor, but I cannot see how you arrived at that interpretation. Or, rather, misrepresentation.

Your view rather reflects the one in the opinion piece I linked above: "What Jews should learn from the Amanda Gorman translation controversy"

Hi reen,
here! The weekend, that is.
Glad you are having an easy and different week.
May the Flora be with you: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
I am enjoying picturing you in green on that wall, overseeing the dominions on this festive day. My thumb is less green than I would like. My mother is very good at gardening, and came to it late, so there's hope yet. Anyway, I am waving an emerald green blouse and lime green t-shirt (that's all the green clothes I own) in belated greeting to you.
Hope that from the lengthy discussions may grow something, after all!
Today after work, I engaged in some bramble stumbling, if that's an acknowledged activity? On the way to my favourite local tree place (which I posted here some time ago), they have mowed down a small strip of the massive bramble hedges. Very convenient, as it would be trudging through mud just now otherwise. However, the brambles are resilient, and coming up with renewed slings and arrows.
Plans for tonight, too, are good for training one's balance. My friend is a Feldenkrais fan and I have let myself be persuaded that we will hold a one-on-one online session structured by a podcast. The aim is, apparently, according to my friend, to 'make unusual movements'.
I can think of all sorts of currently not too usual movements which might be better suited for a Friday evening. But I will take it as it comes.
That's the first ever Zoom meeting I will attend by not sitting in front of the device (still, unlike you, not having managed baking alongside prolonged team meetings, tsktsk), so this alone will be interesting.
However, I suspect the titters may attack me sooner or later. The more so as I so enjoy being with this friend, who has a great sense of humour and remembers me in teenager mode (I her, too).
In any case, just now I had a fun preparatory exercise with comparing the wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldenk..., and the official page on Feldenkrais, where you can also find photographs of some possibly unusual movements: https://feldenkrais.com/
I rather tend towards the (critical) wiki.
Anyway, I don't doubt it will be fun, one way or another, and the yoga mat is rearing to go. Let's hope my godchild falls asleep soon, otherwise I might before we had a proper start, lying on that mat...
Today, I have not been reading anything tangible except some work-related texts. If I look at the TBR pile, I'd say I am spoilt for choice. Not too bad, then.

Thanks for pointing this out. One would indeed.
Seems like a case of "new normal"...
I appreciate your post very much. It outlines a, to me, convincing argument very clearly. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort.

I agree with you over the point that the Dutch commissioners of the translation seemed to be more about 'lets get this young literary 'prize winning' famous person in Holland to translate another young newly famous person, as it sounds like a financial winner. I didn't realise, from what I had read so far, that their English wasn't at all 'good'. I wonder if Amanda knew that when she went ahead with her 'backing' for them, as the preferred translator? But I disagree with your comment on what Georg said, I think you deduced too far. She didn't say what you said that she said!...
She extrapolated a bit too far maybe, as we are not yet, on the whole, discussing the extremes of the argument, so far! Rather we are maundering over the middle ground, at the moment. I hope the whole argument won't go to the extremes. I'm up for the sensible debate, in the middle-ground. But I well know that some of those with economic, or indeed idealogical interests in the matter, are not necessarily considering this factor as a 'bottom line', or an anchoring point, to the debate at all...


Seedorf, Davids, Hasselbank, Winter.....

"Can you name the books below from the portion of their covers?"
https://www.sporcle.com/games/g/bookc...
(You can cheat a little, as you can see the covers at the bottom of the page before you start the quiz)
My result is dismal, but I would think various people here can do better?

I require someone with a suitable profile to translate this.

I'm much better with the covers of books than with anything inside. I only missed four, two of which I'd never heard of. I went through several incorrect powers of 10 before hitting on the correct James Frey title.

Got 15/24, not that bad. Should really have had 2 more (2,1; 3,2). I have actually never heard of 5 of them: 2,2; 3,1; 3,4; 3,5; 3,6!
Edit, duh: Thanks bl!

I thought I'd never heard of 3,4 & 3,5 (view spoiler)
I knew 3,6 ((view spoiler) ) because it's a children's book, and you know I'm just wild about them!
I only knew of 2,2 ((view spoiler) ) and 3,1 ((view spoiler) though I didn't recognize the cover) because they were Oprah Picks.
Speaking of Oprah picks: todays news is that she's chosen Marilynne Robinson's Gilead quartet as her new book club selection.

Thanks Bill, this makes me feel a bit better about those I didn't know (and makes it even more obvious how US-centric this quiz is). It was notable how many kids books started their title in the same way. Almost as ubiquitous as the fad of cheap thrillers with 'girl' in their title.

I suppose that the covers are specifically US editions - though some of the more iconic ones may be used in multiple countries. So many books don't make it into other languages with their titles intact, I can't think that all that many cover images are used across borders.
I'm reminded of one of my favorites book cover pairs in the US: the cover of Beautiful Wasps Having Sex went through quite a change from hardcover to paperback.



HP, thanks for the link to the article at the G, sad to see yet another sign of diminishing biodiversity, especially for such fascinating creatures. But very positive on Japan's efforts to save the fireflies. I wasn't aware of the work of Kiichiro Minami but knew that local schools were in the vanguard, growing and releasing fireflies.
Setsuko is a very lovely name, coincidentally the 76th anniversary of the firebombing of Kobe was just 3 days ago and there was a piece on TV about it and Akiyuki Nosaka's heartrending short story, it showed some clips from the Studio Ghibli anime adaptation, which I think I may rewatch soon. Breathtakingly sad. Absolutely worthy of mention when discussing fireflies and Japan. Totsuko has the book from when she was in University in Kobe in the early 80s (studying English !). "Hotaru no Haka" indeed.
You know, people in Tokyo pay money to go and view fireflies in Summer. On those muggy nights we just turn off the TV, switch off the lights, sit on our back terrace with a cold drink and watch them weaving around the bamboo.....magic, absolutely magic.
On "The Wind in the Willows" (to change the subject). I have wonderful childhood memories of that book. One or two nights a week my Dad would turn off the telly, grab a book and read to myself and my siblings. "The Wind in the Willows" is the one I remember most fondly, Dad would often go off on long crazy adlibbed tangents about how certain characters reminded him of people he knew. Thinking about it much later, it is possible that the quality of these adlibs depended very much on how much he had been drinking. I think it is just as much an adults book as a childrens book.

brilliant mach, that made me chuckle. Louis Van Gaal is the master of the dutch shhhhh, "my fiwosophhhy" and namechecking his long suffering missus, the wonderfully named Truus

Its called Wolf Moon by Julio Llamazares written in 1985 and one of many superb spanish novels concerning the civil war, set in the Cantabrian mountains of Green Spain (my favourite spot in that country)
A 36 yr old novel probably isnt "modern" mind you...lol
I read his novel The Yellow Rain 18 years ago and its not good that he has only two translated novels when he is a superb writer.

Wind in the Willows" (to change the subject). I have wonderful childhood memories of that book. One or two nights a week my Dad would turn off the telly, grab a book and read to myself and my siblings. "The Wind in the Willows" is the one I remember most fondly, Dad would often go off on long crazy adlibbed tangents about how certain characters reminded him of people he knew.
When I lived in a Somerset village there was an eccentric farmer who would career around those narrow lanes riding his old bright red tractor, standing upright as if it were a team of horses racing in the Circus, his long white hair flowing out with the wind of passage and his blue eyes sparkling with intent. Yes, I always called him Mr Toad! Everyone would dive out of his way.

There is the distinctive chalk lining paths and hillsides, the wide open plain and the spire of the cathedral which comes in and out of view on every undulation of ground
The Longest Journey seems less downbeat than i expected, it is merely tied up in all the frustrations of human relations and life. Forster is always very perceptive of these aspects of "making do", the small irritations and problems of a social engagement or a visit to distant family where life starts to twist and turn upon itself

"Can you click the correct word cloud for each author?"
https://www.sporcle.com/games/C22zm/b...
I hope you'll have fun with it.
@ Bill & Hushpuppy:
Very impressive scores! I was hoping some here might have fun with this. I managed six only... Too many of the covers did not ring a bell, or indeed anything else. I had also forgotten the number of miles in a classic title, and the exact SH title.
@ Carmen:
Hello again! "Wildly impressed" covers it. Still am, though I read it many years ago. While what has remained with me most, visually, too, after many years, are the parts set during the Nazi occupation, I also like that you get the author's view on his father as he knew him, taking the story into the (then) present. The father is presented as a complicated character with some not so likeable traits, raising questions about how trauma may affect the present and later generations. It is such an important work. Historically sound, too, as far as I am aware.
@AB 76 & Machenbach:
Laughed at the accent rendering as well! The band comparisons, too.
I dunno why, but I can speak English with a French accent quite convincingly, or so I have been told. But I can neither speak "unaccented" French nor English. I do sound better than Günther Oettinger, though. But that's not difficult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OGX...
The film starts by explaining that the then new EU Commissioner claims the importance of English as a lingua franca. Then you can hear Oettinger speaking, er, English.
This video still makes me laugh hard. But cringe, too, as it is so obvious he has not written the speech himself, does not know many of the words and is just wading his way through it. Poor mangled English.

"Can you click the correct word cloud for each author?"
https://www.sporcle.com/games/C22zm/b...
I hope you'll have fun with it.
@ Bill &..."
i've probably mentioned this before that while my french has always been complimented, especially as a child on holiday in non-english speaking parts of Corsica, in the last decade almost all french burst into english when i start to mumble and chatter in the lingo, which reveals the decline of my profiency. Oddly Germans were much more direct, living in Berlin in 1999, i was often complimented on my "Dresden" accent. I was flattered and thought "well well", until somebody mentioned the dresden/saxony accent is very strong and not that clear.....aha...i thought.

"
gosh look at all those boxes, nice "perch" for Mario...
Machenbach wrote: "Only 11 for me..."
Twelve for me. Should have been 13, but I could only pull up 'Garden' and 'Evil' for Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Ditto, several I've never heard of.
Twelve for me. Should have been 13, but I could only pull up 'Garden' and 'Evil' for Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Ditto, several I've never heard of.

And ...
Two Ragnar Jonasson books from the "Hidden Island" trilogy. I remember some here (CCC, and prob scarlet and giveusaclue?) recommending Jonasson. Only just found out there are two series, (the other, earlier, is "Dark Island").
Has anybody read the "Hidden Island" ones? If so: I have got #1 and #3, somebody else has #2 atm. Do I have to read them in order?
And I found something very strange I have never heard of before:
they were translated into German not from Icelandic, but from the English translation. A translation of a translation.
Looks like we have no literary Icelandic ->German translators...

Both feature talking animals – rodents specifically, though I am not sure that the genus makes that much difference (I never liked Mickey Mouse much, though Rocky the Flying Squirrel was aces with me). It seems viscerally too much a suspension of disbelief for the emotional engagement I sense that both works require.
I am also mightily put off - as it turns out, this hadn’t sunk in when I acquired the books – that Maus features anthropomorphic mice and cats while purporting to be a work of non-fiction.

This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Books mentioned in this topic
We Were Liars (other topics)The Song of Achilles (other topics)
The Fortnight in September (other topics)
Immigration and Nationalism: Argentina and Chile, 1890–1914 (other topics)
The Complete Maus (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Marilynne Robinson (other topics)Graham Joyce (other topics)
Eric C. Higgs (other topics)
E.M. Forster (other topics)
Jirō Taniguchi (other topics)
More...