Buddy Read for A Brief History of Seven Killings - there will be spoilers!

[Meli]

OK, so almost immediately based on the narrator's tone (?) I was like (view spoiler)[this is Nina, right? (hide spoiler)] and it was! I was shocked I picked up on that. So now I need to know what they hell happened to the rest of the family. While she is reading the paper (view spoiler)[she is reading off Miss Jamaica pageant contestants and Kim was one of them. So presumably the family is alive and thriving? Also, who is after Nina/Kim? Josey Wales? (hide spoiler)]

Her story is so tragic :(

[Theresa]

Meli wrote: "OK, so almost immediately based on the narrator's tone (?) I was like [spoilers removed] and it was! I was shocked I picked up on that. So now I need to know what they hell happened to the rest of ..."

Tragic is the description! I pretty much immediately knew it was her too - the obsession with getting to America, of escaping to America specifically, of seeking out a man to help her. There were other things too. I thought James did a magnificent job of changing her voice just enough to show the disintegration from 2 years earlier - that she's changed and not in a good way.

My theory on the guy in the photo: (view spoiler)[ was first that Josey Wales. But then I started thinking it was one of the CIA guys and I looked at her fake name - Kim Clarke - and thought 'hmmm she took her sister's name, what if she added another person we have met?" Sure enough there is a CIA field officer named Clarke listed in the character list at the beginning - and I think recall his popping up. That made me think that it is more likely a CIA officer. If you re-read the section where she describes looking at the photo, you will see she mentions Papa Lo, then a woman, then a man next to Papa Lo - I think those are Josey and his wife. Then she goes to the row behind, and sees the guy with the sunglasses 'looking directly at her'. I think that is one of the CIA guys - possibly Johnson, possibly Clark or someone else. There is also in the last Nina chapter (I think) mention when she is at the gate and a guy turns and looks at her from the car that picked up BamBam and light reflects off his glasses.

Why do I think it CIA? Who else would actually be looking for her because she saw him at the Singer's the night of the shooting? I don't think Josey is concerned - he's protected. But the CIA would not want it disclosed that they were involved.

Also, the company Chuck works for? That bauxite mining co? It's a front for the CIA or so I believe. Which explains the sudden shipping out orders and a private charter jet. I believe they are abandonning operations and presence in Jamaica.

And I don't hink Nina/Kim realizes she hid herself in the middle of the CIA.

Do you think she dies? I'm not so sure. The fire may have been a way for her to escape and run away again. (hide spoiler)]

Seeing the Kimmie mention was wild. Yeah - would love to know the back story there.

[Theresa]

A few more comments/thoughts:

She is always referred to as unemployed...why? What happened. Where did she work.

Her desperation to leave for America seemed connected to the attack on her parents. But she is still desperate now. Why? I don't think it is the typical reasons.

I think (view spoiler)[ she was a receptionist at one of the companies that fronts for the CIA and she accidentally found out and also about what they were doing in Jamaica. Guy in glasses was her boss. (hide spoiler)]

One more tidbit. The references to Bush are Papa Bysh who was gead of CIA at one point.

[Theresa]

Some US historical placement:

Bush Senior left as head of CIA in January 1977. He was Director for one year, thus in charge at time of Marley attack.

Carter occupied the White House. His final year in office is 1979.
He was succeeded by Reagan, whose running mate and VP was Bush Senior.

Carter's final year was dominated by the Iran Hostage crisis...which is alluded to at beginning of next chapter by Barry.

[Meli]

Wow, those are all really good theories! I assumed Chuck's company was a front, similar to what tipped you off related to them getting shipped out so quickly.

I also think you are correct regarding who is looking for her. Like you said, Papa Lo and Josey have no reason for concern. Was Papa Lo there the night of the ambush? Josey claims no involvement when Papa Lo pushes him on it so he wouldn't have been there otherwise he would have seen Josey, right? But I think you are right about the picture she is looking at in the paper. What was the pic again?? (I forgot)

We know the dorky documentarian was in there, but I think he's harmless... and we don't even know if he lived, right? Or everyone lived?

I had no idea Sr. Bush was head of the CIA. Now it makes sense why they keep mentioning him. I was going to look it up because I kept thinking it's too early for him to be president so what the hell is going on? Well, there you have it. I am sure that is a huge part of Bush's story and mentioned endlessly but I have no recollection of it.

[Meli]

Ditto on (view spoiler)[Nina / Kim's voice. James makes her seem desperate and on the brink of a mental breakdown. I think you are right about her job... secretary for the CIA. Maybe this is why she would recognize CIA at the Singer's? As for the fire, I was totally under the impression she started the fire and fled. I might have to go back and read that passage. (hide spoiler)]

[Theresa]

Brink of a nervous breakdown....that is the perfect description.

I just think the end of the Kim chapter with flames is a little ambiguous if she has left or has she completely broken down and created her own funeral pyre so to speak. I think masking her escape is what's happening.

Photo is the one in the newspaper.

You should reread the last Papa Lo chapter in 1976 - he was arrested and jailed just before or while it was going down -- he'd figured out what Josey was up to and was looking to warn the Singer I recall when he was picked up by the police - no accident. That was clearly arranged to prevent him from interfering.

His time in jail he describes in the PapaLo chapter in 1979 - which I just read last night.

I wasn't exactly tumbling to the Bush head of CIA during that time - I knew he'd been director at some point before he was VP to Reagan - just not the years. I went looking up dates because I couldn't remember if Reagan was already president....especially when Barry's 1979 chapter starts with reference to the mess in Iran I really went checking. The Iranian Revolution was in 1979, and the new order took Americans hostage and refused to release them. Carter's diplomatic efforts failed and he lost his re-election bid as a result, becoming a one term president.

I also checked out what was happening in Yugoslavia in 1979 because Barry references it in his chapter - there was a massive earthquake in southern part of country, but I don't see any political activity per se. Although this is the period where the Soviet Union was entering Glastnost and breaking up. Berlin Wall came down during Reagan, Gorbachev was governing Soviet Union which was becoming today's Russia.

It was a time of great change and turmoil around the world. China was also going through transition and starting to make it's presence felt on the world as Mao's cultural revolution ended in 1976 or thereabouts.

It's incredibly interesting and pretty awesome how James interwove so much global politics into this story to provide context.

Another reason it's the CIA after her and not Josey and his people: Josey had plenty of opportunity to 'remove' her as she hung out trying to get to the Singer. And they didn't. She was no threat to them. I'm also now wondering if the real reasons she was trying to get to the Singer was to warn him in exchange for tickets to get to America. That leverage makes more sense than what she was claiming -- Nina was not fully disclosing even to herself let alone the reader.

I'm planning to finish the 1979 section tonight - it's not long. Then I have to finish something for a book club that's in the next couple of weeks. But I'm going to come back to this quickly because it's reaching the point where I am almost compelled to keep reading. Although I suspect I will need another break from the violence again at some point before finishing.

It's really helpful with this book to be able to discuss it this way! If ever a book needed a buddy read....this one is it. I'm also thinking about seeing if I can get a digital copy from NYPL so I can search for things I know I read before and want to double check - like if a CIA guy named Clarke has already appeared other than in the list of characters. I'm reading a trade paperback loaned me by a friend - which I love reading of course. But boy am I spoiled with ebook search and instant internet surfing capabilities! And highlighting! So much better than scrambling for a post-it (book is borrowed so I can't just write in it) to mark a passage.

[Meli]

Yes, I just read the Papa Lo chapter in 1979 where he describes his time in jail and how him and Shotta ended up squashing their beef. I hadn't considered the police were intentional to keep him from interfering.

Agreed regarding James interweaving all this political history, it's truly amazing! I wonder how long it took him to write.

And I also agree if ever a book needed a buddy read it is this one! I usually avoid looking stuff up because it just takes me out of the book and I don't want to be doing it constantly, so you are offering a lot of great information and insights for me :)

The ebook search feature could be really helpful. If you get an ebook and do go back to look up those things, please keep me posted on what you find. I can't recall now if there was a Clarke and of course in paperback it would be freakin impossible to find!

[Theresa]

Agh! NYPL only has it in audiobook! I rarely like audiobooks anyway but I cannot IMAGINE 'reading' this one in audio! Maybe just to hear how sections are done but following this would be impossible.

NYPL only has ebook version in Spanish...I'm seriously thinking it worth paying the $10 bucks to get ebook from Amazon. Might even be less with some shipping credits (for delaying prime delivery of an order a few days) I just earned.

I've talked myself into it. I'm buying the ebook!

I did this with Proust. I couldn't find (still can't) my beautiful hardcover set. Ended up buying used copies and was happy I did because I just went ahead and marked them up as I read. I also acquired an ebook set - an updated version of the same translation - which I used to read the book in bad lighting or when too heavy to carry around the paperback and also to search for references. Proust was multiple volumns, about 1.5M words. Being able to search and to mark up was essential to reading it.

Will keep you posted. And let me know if there is something you want to look back at.

Sometimes I don't look things up because they take me away. But here I tend to look things up at the end of chapters or before I start reading again -- rarely disrupting the actual reading.

[Theresa]

Just checked - "Clark's" is mentioned in 1976 as shoes...BamBam takes his fathers Clark's shoes when he escapes after his parents killed by gang. Tgey are a status symbol of a sorts that hus father was proud to be able to afford.

Mr. Clark shows up in a Josey chapter after Kim chapter. Still could be related to why she picked that name.

[Theresa]

OMG! was just looking at list of characters in front, just checking something idly, and I see something. Papa Lo's real name is Raymond CLARKE!

Plot thickens on why she took that name.

[Theresa]

P.342 middle of Pap Lo chapter (view spoiler)[CIA guy with sunglasses is Johnson. That is who trains boys for Singer attack, who wears sunglasses even at night, who saw Nina at Singers when he picked up BamBam who was watching early in day of shooting, who Nina saw after shooting at Singer, anf whose in picture in paper. That is who she is running from. (hide spoiler)]

[Meli]

WHOA! I didn't even catch that (Raymond Clarke)!!

I remember the shoes storyline though... that was a really rough passage (Bambam's whole back story).

I need to check where I am again before I read your spoiler.

[Theresa]

Which is why it is hidden as a spoiler...

I am at page 408. When I get to page 437...end of this section on 1979...I am stopping to read something else and let you catch up.

[Meli]

Yes, please, I need to catch up 😂
Thought I was gonna smoke you but I didn't make much progress this weekend.

[Theresa]

Well I have Feminerdy Book Club in 10 days and need to read tbe longish book.

I am also single....no kids....

BTW section in Josey starting about p. 416 important for providing political context from his world view. Don't read when tired.

I think I have confirmed for myself on why CIA involved so much in Jamaican politics in 70s. JLP leader friendly with Cuba and after Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missike Crisis in 1962, US afraid of more of these poor unstable islands falling to communism, allowing Soviets to have a stepping stone to surrounding closely with missiles. CIA sent in to do what can to keep JLP out of officeand striking deals with PNP and its Prime Minister Nasser. In 1979 with Glastnost and the fall of the Soviet Union, less urgent especially given middle east radicalization evidenced by fall of Iran to religious extremists. Middle East is center of OPEC and source of oil. Plus the loss of the Agency's top spies through Adler's tell all has strained resources. Reallocation end up dumping Jamaica.

That is my theory.

[Theresa]

Finished 1979. On P 437, beginning of 1985. I will be reading a couple other things through this weekend, to give you time to both catch up to and pass me by. 😉

I looked up some info on James from when this won Booker - a unanimous vote which is rare. Took him 4 years to write.

This is reaching the point where I start seeing the end and want to finish. But glad of a break too.

Also stumbled across this: Inside the CIA's Secret War in Jamaica. Not planning tobread any time soon, but ....

[Meli]

I checked last night and I am exactly where you mentioned the spoiler!

I think your theory is accurate and verifiable.
My husband is a history teacher, and as I mentioned Jamaican music enthusiast, so he explained why the CIA was meddling in Jamaican affairs so much at this time.
Also checks that this would be less a priority as we move into the 80s.

Gosh, 4 years actually seems kinda short given all the historical tie ins for this book!

Hopefully I can make some good progress this weekend.

Also, nice find on the book! I want to read that. Looks graciously short which I find surprising.

[Theresa]

@Meli - still on hiatus. I have a busy work week, still have 160 or so pages of The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue to read by Sunday. Then I think I'll read a cozy mystery or the short book I have for Unofficial Trim. I don't think I will pick back up here before the weekend, and then it will be Sunday.

[Meli]

Theresa wrote: "@Meli - still on hiatus. I have a busy work week, still have 160 or so pages of The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue to read by Sunday. Then I think I'll read a cozy mystery or the sho..."

Same, I have 2 books for IRL book club I have to finish 🤦🏼‍♀️
This could easily bleed into April for me!

[Theresa]

I finished my only deadline read. Reading a coupke challenge reads but then back to this. Don't want to lose rythm and I am itching to see where it takes me. It might drag into April...I do have a bad work schedule.

[Meli]

Yeah, that's my problem is losing momentum and I don't want that, but with my book club commitments I have no choice :(
Got at least a couple weeks I'll need to finish Detransition, Baby and The House in the Cerulean Sea.

[Theresa]

Well I've had no time to read anything since finishing The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue.

I have The House in the Cerulean Sea - it was a Christmas gift from a friend. Not on the agenda to read just yet though it is winking at me from the top of its TBR Tower across the room.

Perhaps what you should do, and I too, just to keep the momentum pilot light lit, is read at least 10 or 15 pages every couple of days. That's how I read Proust. It worked. Here the added bonus is it won't take long to read 10 or 15 pages every couple of days. Proust - took an hour to read 15 pages....

[Theresa]

Hey buddy! I have 2.5 mysteries left to read this week, then picking this back up before losing the thread and rhythm. I think given my work schedule and the movies I am streaming from the Athena Film Festival here in NYC, it will be Saturday or Sunday when I do. My plan is to read to 1991, the last section, then wait for you if needed. I have other books I'd like to squeeze into March reads.

I want us to finish close together.

[Meli]

Hey buddy!

I like your recommendation to keep the momentum, and read 10-15 pages. I think I can squeeze that in this weekend. Once I finish The House by the Cerulean Sea, which is most urgent, I will again have more time to read A Brief History...

I would like to finish closer together too!

[Theresa]

Buddy! I have started reading again...1985. I am sucked right in! I could easily finish in couple of days.

Where you stand?

[Meli]

I started back up as well but I'm only at page 365, or Alex Pierce in the late 70s. I'm working hard! :P

[Theresa]

Meli wrote: "I started back up as well but I'm only at page 365, or Alex Pierce in the late 70s. I'm working hard! :P"

Each 1985 chapter is short so far. Easy to make progress. I am only at 470 ...was busy with errands and being outside.

You are not that far behind.

[Theresa]

Meli - just to encourage you...

White Lines/Kids in America is fast reading, way lighter than what you are reading through now. Even quite funny in parts.

But I also know you have some movie viewing happening. 😁

[Theresa]

Meli - I absolutely tore through that section. Now at 1991, last section, p. 605. Book is propelling me to the end. I will probably finish on Monday as less than 100 pages to read. Will hold off reviewing and discussing until you finish, but trust me, you want to push through and finish this month. It all comes to a head fast.

[Theresa]

I finished.

[Meli]

Wow, that was quick!
I will continue to chip away this week.

Finishing within 3 days seems impossible but we will see what I can do!

[Meli]

Hey Buddy!

Update: I have been reading diligently each night, but I had a book club last night after work, and I have The Masked Singer viewing with gma tonight so losing a little momentum. Also, I have a friend visiting this weekend, BUT I have vacation Monday so I will read as much as I possibly can Monday and check back in.

Thank you for being patient!

[Theresa]

NP. you will find reading goes faster in last 2 sections....you are hitting point where it all starts coming together too.

[Theresa]

Checking in on your, Meli!

[Meli]

I cranked out about 100 pages yesterday. I was hoping to do more, but I read at a moderate speed.
I am now at a little over 500 pages.

It is definitely picking up pace.

Also, is Dorcas Nina / Kim??
Holy shit, this lady is all over the damn place.

[Theresa]

Meli wrote: "I cranked out about 100 pages yesterday. I was hoping to do more, but I read at a moderate speed.
I am now at a little over 500 pages.

It is definitely picking up pace.

Also, is Dorcas Nina / ..."

Yup, she is. It all comes together at the very end. Have tissues handy for that last couple of sentences. DO NOT SPOIL IT BY READING NOW!

The last 100 pages flies by. And you marvel all over again at James talent and skill.

[Meli]

Thanks for the heads up on the tissues!

[Meli]

Buddy - I am coming into the home stretch!

I promise you I have been reading diligently each night, but sometimes I have evening meetings since I work with people in Japan in a totally opposite time zone and on Wednesday I watch The Masked Singer with my gma so less reading time.

It is now 1991, so I think I can probably finish on Saturday.
Maybe tonight but I don't wanna be too ambitious.

I will report back soon!

[Theresa]

Meli wrote: "Buddy - I am coming into the home stretch!

I promise you I have been reading diligently each night, but sometimes I have evening meetings since I work with people in Japan in a totally opposite t..."

Oh, I had no doubt. I know the work situation - until last week my work days were very long and stretch into the evening. I have a brief lull - and slight burnout. I also am single and live alone - so no one to distract me.

I expect you will finish this weekend. These sections move so fast.

[Meli]

I do get distracted by my husband sometimes too! Some evenings, depending on what is happening at work or in the world, we'll stand in the kitchen gabbing and before you know it it's bed time!

[Theresa]

Meli wrote: "I do get distracted by my husband sometimes too! Some evenings, depending on what is happening at work or in the world, we'll stand in the kitchen gabbing and before you know it it's bed time!"

You know what? That is wonderful! It's not true of many couples.

Especially so after a year of pandemic and enforced 24/7 closeness!

[Meli]

We are pretty good about giving each other space and coming together when we've been recharged with me-time, but it's kinda just lucky. We just have a natural pattern to our routines in the home.

I mentioned my husband is really into Jamaican music, and I've been telling him about the book. He said he is interested in reading it which is so exciting because there is not a lot of overlap in our reading. I would LOVE for him to love Marlon James 🥰

[Meli]

I finished on Saturday which happened to be, we find out in Josey Wales last moments, Josey Wales birthday!

Easily a 5 star read for me, but when I checked back it took me over 2 months to read! I think if I had nothing else I had to read 3 weeks would be totally doable.

The only female voice in the entire novel turned out to be the most tragic and complicated character. My heart broke for Nina / Kim / Dorcas because she spent so many years living in fear when she wasn't even on Josey Wales radar. Although there would be no reason for her to think that was the case.

Josey Wales was such an evil man, but I always manage to feel sympathy for these villainous types when their whole blood line is wiped out. (even though we find out that isn't totally the case)
He killed so many innocent people and was brutal about it so there is no reason to feel for him, but for some reason when they come to their undeniable end I can't help myself. Certainly Papa Lo is a more sad case since he seemed to change at the end.

So now that we are done... Dr. Love was doing his own thing outside the CIA but also with the CIA? And he felt some compassion for Wales so helped him pass peacefully?

[Theresa]

I think Dr. Love offed Josey so that he would not reveal, however inadvertantly, his dealings with both Colombians and CIA and thus reveal Dr. Love among others. Whether it was the CIA who ordered the hit or Colombia - my money is the CIA - is not clear and doesn't matter.

There is sympathy for Josey Wales in the book, and in the end, losing his temper over what was really a triviality, led to the destruction of all he had worked to build in just minutes. It does not matter whether what he built was 'good' or 'bad'. Look at the good careers destroyed by base acts - whether having sex with minors or embezzling funds leaving shattered families and careers behind. Josey et al are the reverse of those Just as becoming users of the product they sold ultimately led to the death of Weeper and those he hired to be the dealers and runners. It's the utter ordinary humaness revealed in someone that counters evil. James did that so effectively.

I literally cried when Nina/Dorcas call Pammie at the end. Heck, it brings tears to my eyes even now. Josey may not have been looking for her but she also just disappeared. Who knows if she had stayed in Kingston what would have happened. What a survivor she was!

What is also sad is that Jamaica was still in chaos all those years later. Still is I believe.

I know I could have read it in a couple of weeks, even taking a break or two, had I pushed. But there was definitely a point in the middle where I needed a couple of weeks away from it. That ended up a bit longer, more like 3.5 weeks, because I had a couple challenge books to finish. I started reading January 28th and finished March 29th - 2 months but there was a gap between Feb. 7 and March 1, and another between March 4 and March 27. So it really only took me 2.5 weeks of actualy reading.

5 stars all the way.

[Meli]

Speaking of Nina calling her sister... what was so touching, and what I was struck by was that for all her "toughness" she really did miss home and her family. We certainly saw this when she kept visiting the Don in a coma, and also when she stopped by that Jamaican spot for dinner. She had to block out all thoughts of Jamaica to keep her sanity in tact I think, but eventually could no longer deny she missed home, even with all the traumatic memories. Heartbreaking!

[Theresa]

Nina's story is also one of the price paid for going into hiding or the equivalent of witness protection.

Heartbreaking for sure.