The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive #1)

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

This thread is to discuss The Way of Kings, the first book in the Stormlight Archive series by Brandon Sanderson.

Pages: 1007 pages

Length: 2 Months (January and February)

Participants: Kathelijne, Dominique, Trisha, Sharon.

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.

[Kathelijne]

Hii, really excited to be reading this with you! I just finished the Mistborn series last month and it's one of my absolute favorites! Everyone says this one is even better so that's exciting :)

[Raviteja]

This series is one of my favourites and I hope you all enjoy reading it. I will hop in from time to time to see what you all think!

[Izajen]

Is it too late to join in? This looks interesting and I’ve never heard of the series before...

[Dominique]

Izajen wrote: "Is it too late to join in? This looks interesting and I’ve never heard of the series before..."

Jump right in!

[Sara]

I would like to join in

[Dominique]

Sara wrote: "I would like to join in"

Yayy Sara!

[Dominique]

Chapters 1-11 - Part 1

(view spoiler)[ Kaladin starts has a soldier and ends us a slave and bein sold to work with Gaz whomfir the get go hates him. Kal has been trained to become a surgeon but somtg8ng made him become a soldier. We meet Syl, a spirit who speaks to Kal but then keaves him? Will she come back and why dud sge appear to him.
Shallan who wants to learn from Jasnah but wants to steal the Soulcaster to save her family, why?
Kal wanting to kill himself and Syl coming back, encouraging him that he didn’t fail, that he helps people and should continue gave him the push to confront Gaz and be in charge of Bridge 4 (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Part 1 (chapters 1 to 11) done. Some thoughts: (view spoiler)[

I’m already in love with this book - what a brilliant start. I was sucked into the plot from the very first chapter. Love how the characters are drawn out - vivid and interesting! I can already feel the pain Kaladin is going through, his journey from a squad leader to a slave bridgeman is sorrowful. I’m curious to find out how would he further level up and rise to higher ranks more suitable for a warrior like him. Also, Syl’s participation in Kaladin’s life is both praiseworthy and dubious - why is she helping him? We know this is not a common spren behaviour.

Shallan and Jasnah are also interesting characters. Nice to see a world where women do all the studying 🤓 I don’t think Shallan would steal the soulcaster from Jasnah, probably out of her conscience or they might become friends eventually. Let’s see! (hide spoiler)]

@Dominique -
(view spoiler)[ Shallan’s family of the house Davar are in enormous debt and they have to start paying it in a year’s time. Shallan wants to steal the soulcaster and use it to find the marble deposits in her homeland which is how her house used to make money before. That way, she will be able to pay her house’s debts. (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

I finished part 2 last night but I was too sleepy to post my thoughts here. Here I go:

Let me start by saying that the book only gets better. I was not very sure of plunging into the Stormlight universe when this buddy read was suggested because I am also reading two other fantasy series in parallel - A Song of Ice and Fire ( aka the Game of Thrones) and The Dark Tower series which are just as popular as this one and there was a high chance of me mixing up all the worlds, but how wrong I was! The Stormlight Archive has a distinct world of its own and it’s impossible to mix it up with the other worlds/universes. I’m so glad I decided to join this buddy read!

Part 2, thoughts: (view spoiler)[
My favourite POV character has to be Kaladin. I cried reading the chapters where he contemplates committing suicide and then decides against it, of course owing to Syl’s intervention, and then strategises his comeback and winning his team. We get to see his struggle and he doesn’t get to win his team overnight but through a span of time however short it was - very well-written I must say!

I’m curious to know how his brother died and what was his role in it - could that have finally pushed him to become a soldier? And why does he blame himself for it? Also, what’s going on with Syl - how is she becoming more human like? And what consequences would this lead to?

Dalinar’s chapters provide an interesting perspective since they are full of historical facts that help us in understanding the whole Stormlight universe - the world of the heralds, radiants and the voidbringers. Some questions that are troubling me:

a. Sadeas’ real nature. Dalinar trusts him and they were friends at one point of time. But if he really is the person Dalinar believes him to be, why is he inquiring the saddle-break issue like Dalinar was behind it, knowing Dalinar would never do such a thing? Or does he mistrust Adolin who could be ambitious if need be?

b. There’s a part where it is told that Dalinar won a shard plate and blade in the first year of his war against the Parshendi and gave it to Elhokar to further give it to someone who would prove useful to them in the war? Who was this set gifted to? Did the king keep it for himself? Or did he give it to Adolin? So far we know only three of them have both the plate and blade - Dalinar, Elhokar and Adolin.

c. What’s up with Wit? A very interesting character who seems to know a lot about everyone. Knowing that he is a new recruit (just a couple of months old), how does he know so much? Has he been deliberately planted by someone powerful?

d. Whose voice does Galinar hear in his visions? Could that be his brother Gavilar? (hide spoiler)]

Sorry, my intention was never to write so much. 😬

[Raviteja]

Trisha wrote: "I finished part 2 last night but I was too sleepy to post my thoughts here. Here I go:

Let me start by saying that the book only gets better. I was not very sure of plunging into the Stormlight un..."

Hehe, the more you read, the more you will write.
(view spoiler)[
Kaladin is one of my favourites and his story, his battle with depression is well written. He continues to evolve over the books and he is one of those characters to watch out for.

You will know more about Kaladin's past, what happened with his brother, Syl and everything as the book(s) progresses. Just keep reading and enjoy it as the story unfolds :)

As for the other questions,

a)Sadeas real nature - there are subtle hints about it but his intentions would be revealed eventually.

b) I dont remember if Elhokar gave it to someone. I didnt pay much attention to the sets of blades and plates when I read it, and I haven't tracked them well enough :/

c) Oh Wit, undoubtedly my favourite. You have to pay attention to him, what he says and what he does. he is one character you will definitely enjoy.

d) As for the visions, I thought Dalinar heard the voices of those in the visions. I cant speak much without spoiling stuff unfortunately. (hide spoiler)]

Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris.

[Trisha]

Raviteja wrote: "Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris."

I didn’t - please don’t say that I should have read those before to understand this series better. Any connections between these works?

And thanks for your response on my thoughts, appreciate it. I’m enjoying this book so much and looks like you did as well. :)

[Raviteja]

Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris."

I didn’t - please don’t say that I should have read those before to understa..."

hehe, Since all these books are in the same universe, there are certain connections that you will see only if you read the others. After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series. There is one particular easter egg that is very fun to spot. Among all the worlds in Cosmere, Nalthis (Warbreaker) and Roshar (Stormlight Archive) are closely connected, and it becomes too obvious in Rhythm of War

I've read this way back in 2017 and I immensely enjoyed it. I am glad that you are enjoying it too. :)

[Dominique]

L'm a bit (chapter 16). My cat was sick and we had to put him down so my reading has been slow.

(view spoiler)[ I like Dalinar and his son Adolin. It's sad that he lost his brother but now has to protect his nephew. Can`t wait to find out what the king's last words from The Way of Kings means. Kit is an interesting Jester, borderline annoying and funny. Sandeas might not be a loveable character but his loyalty might be true. Went to check out online some fan drawings of a chasmfiend.. frightening! (hide spoiler)]

[Dominique]

Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "I finished part 2 last night but I was too sleepy to post my thoughts here. Here I go:

Let me start by saying that the book only gets better. I was not very sure of plunging into th..."

I did read them, the only one I have left is book The Bands of Mourning. I loved Elantris more than I expected.

[Trisha]

Raviteja wrote: "After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series..."

How I wish I can buy more time 😕 Thanks Raviteja, I’m adding Warbreaker to my TBR and will try my best to read it before I read the second installment, though I can’t promise (signed up for far too many books next month)!

[Trisha]

Dominique wrote: "L'm a bit (chapter 16). My cat was sick and we had to put him down so my reading has been slow.

[spoilers removed]"

Sorry about your cat, Dominique! Take care!

[Raviteja]

Dominique wrote: "L'm a bit (chapter 16). My cat was sick and we had to put him down so my reading has been slow.

[spoilers removed]"

I'm so sorry for your loss, Dominique. Take care!

[Raviteja]

Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series..."

How I wish I can buy more time 😕 Thanks Raviteja, I’m adding Warbreaker to my ..."

haha, we all run short of time to read books :D
With Words of Radiance, Warbreaker is not gonna make too much difference. I read Warbreaker after Oathbringer and I regret that.. When I saw that sentence in WoR for the first time, it didnt feel any special.. but after reading Warbreaker, I went through WoR again and I could only curse myself for not reading it before.

Happy reading!

[Dominique]

Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series..."

How I wish I can buy more time 😕 Thanks Raviteja, I’m adding Wa..."

Now I have to read Warbreaker again.. not angry about it!

[Raviteja]

Dominique wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series..."

How I wish I can buy more time 😕 Thanks Ravite..."

Hmm, if you remember the magic system (view spoiler)[Breaths, Heightening and Awakening (hide spoiler)] and other key components, you dont need to read it again.

For WoR, I usually recommend it because spotting the easter egg is quite fun. In Oathbringer there are a few easter eggs that refer to Warbreaker. In Rhythm of War, they are no longer easter eggs and they are quite direct.

[Dominique]

Raviteja wrote: "Dominique wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "After you finish this book, atleast read Warbreaker before you start the next one in this series..."

How I wish I can buy more ti..."

Yes I do remember! if I have time I still might pick it up again.

[Trisha]

Finished Part 3. This is a quick read even though it is quite chunky. My ebook has 1470 pages, although on goodreads, all versions seem to have less than 1300. Anyway, here is what I think of part 3:(view spoiler)[

I’ve been finding Shallan’s chapters a bit boring - too much forced humour and pretentious witticism. Thankfully, this new twist of Shallan seeing those symbol-headed figures has given a whole new direction to the story. Are those figures voidbringers, or some other sort of spirit associated with soulcasting? Any why did Kabsal try to poison Jasnah? Is the ardentia afraid of what Jasnah can possibly find from her research?

Kaladin is still my favourite! His POV chapters are a delight to read. I think Syl has been following him since five years, from the time he was at home apprenticed to his father. There are a few references of a spren following him at his home and when he was working in the army. What made Syl choose him? This last revelation about Kaladin defeating a Shardbearer and how that didn’t go well for him was so heartbreaking! So unfair!

I always forget to write about the interludes. They provide an interesting insight into the rest of the world. I’m most curious about Szeth - who is he now supposed to kill and who is this new master? Why is he bent upon bringing chaos? Or does he intend to turn the attention of the King and the Highprincess away from the Shattered Plains? I always have so many questions! 😬 (hide spoiler)]

[Kathelijne]

Dominique wrote: "L'm a bit (chapter 16). My cat was sick and we had to put him down so my reading has been slow.

[spoilers removed]"

So sorry to hear that Dominique.

[Kathelijne]

Sorry guys, I'm a little behind on my reading due to a few reasons but I'm planning to start this as soon as I finish the book I'm currently reading. Excited to respond to all your thoughts!

[Trisha]

Kathelijne wrote: "Sorry guys, I'm a little behind on my reading due to a few reasons but I'm planning to start this as soon as I finish the book I'm currently reading. Excited to respond to all your thoughts!"

No problem, Kathelijne! Join us when you can, this book is anyway planned for two months. :)

[Trisha]

Part 4 done. More thoughts: (view spoiler)[

Oh my my, this part was absolutely crazy! I barely changed my posture reading through the last 10 chapters. I’m not an action-loving person so I usually don’t enjoy war scenes but this is perhaps the only book which doesn’t have lengthy, complex and gruesome war scenes; instead, they are entertaining and most of all, so full of hope. Wow!

We finally know Sadeas’ true nature, thank goodness! I cried when Dalinar traded his shardblade in exchange of the bridge crew; I always liked him but I adore him now! That last scene where Dalinar gave Elhokar a much-needed thrashing cracked me up. :D (hide spoiler)]

70 more pages to go but it’s already midnight! 😢

[Raviteja]

Trisha wrote: "Part 4 done. More thoughts: "

I hope you got answers to some of your previous questions..

Sanderson is brilliant at writing the climax. Typically the last 20% will have a lot happening and it is almost impossible to put it down!

I am interested to hear what you think as a whole once you finish this book.

[Trisha]

Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Part 4 done. More thoughts: "

I hope you got answers to some of your previous questions..

Sanderson is brilliant at writing the climax. Typically the last 20% will have a lot happe..."

I loved it!! (view spoiler)[ The last 20%, I believe, was the strongest of the whole book, but the last 2 chapters were a bit edgy. I’m kinda confused with the last chapter, or precisely the last scene of the book which makes me more eager to pick the next book. Like you pointed out, a lot of my questions were eventually answered in their due time but I’m left wanting for so much more!!

I’m also split on rating the book. I really enjoyed it but some portions (the ones with Shallan) and the last chapter don’t quite make this a 5🌟 read for me, but it’s not a 4🌟 book either - it’s beyond that. Why can’t Goodreads have a better rating system? I feel I’m going to revise my rating a few times but still remain dissatisfied. Ugh! (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Finished!! All I’d say is - this book was an ADVENTURE, my staying up till 4 am in the morning just to finish this proves it. :D

[Dominique]

Finished part 2

(view spoiler)[ Dalinar has to trust Sadeas, but the actions and words makes you wonder if Sadeas will be trustworthy. I like that we got a glimpse of Dalinar's vision of the past. It does seem to everyone that he's going madm but there's a purpose that these visions are coming.
I like the growing friendship with Kalidar, Rock and Teft, hopefully the other bridgemen will realize he wants them to survive in any way possible.
I do wonder how his brother died and did he have a part in it.
I was missing Jasnah through part 2, she was only in the last few pages at the end and why is her mother back? Dalinar stepping down, will he keep his word or will something happen before he makes his announcement? (hide spoiler)]

[Dominique]

Trisha wrote: "Finished!! All I’d say is - this book was an ADVENTURE, my staying up till 4 am in the morning just to finish this proves it. :D"

I wish i still had the energy to stay up late and finish a book like I used to.

[Trisha]

This topic has now been moved to the February Buddy Reads folder.

[Dominique]

Finished part 3.
(view spoiler)[
Well that was a twist, Jabsal trying to poison Jasnah but ended up dead, clever of him to put the antidote in the jam which Jasnah wouldn't eat. Shallan went all this way to steal the soulcaster and had to give it back to save her life.
Kaladin is so young and went through a lot. Roshone blaming Lirin for hus son's death and exacting revenge by making Tien go to war was cruel.
Finding out how Kaladin became a slave was a shock, hoping he does get some kind of revenge (hide spoiler)]

[Kathelijne]

Finished part 1!
(view spoiler)[This book has been amazing so far. The characters seem really interesting and I just love Sanderson's writing style. Kaladin has had quite a journey already and, like you also mentioned @Trisha, I'm curious to see how he will probably rise up through the ranks. There seems to be something special about Kaladin? He's obviously been very good at staying alive so far while everyone around him seems to keep dying. Also, why is Syl drawn to him? She seems to have a real admiration for him but what I don't get is why? Why is she there and why does she care so much right from the beginning? I guess we'll find out :)

Shallan and Jasnah's dynamic has been interesting. Stealing the soulcast from her will be quite the task, I imagine (if Shallan will go through with it). I'm curious to see what we'll happen and how everything is gonna tie together. (hide spoiler)]

I do feel like I have to make tons of notes because of the insane amount of name-drops and concepts! I'm not sure how I'm gonna remember it all haha

[Kathelijne]

Finished part 2 already, this book has me hooked completely! This is the first time I'm really annotating a book and I think it was the right choice because I'm loving it.
(view spoiler)[
First of all, I LOVE Kaladin. He's my absolute favorite character so far. I really appreciate the strength that comes from his ability to care so much for others. It could be a weakness but it's clear that he has made the decision that it won't be, not for him. The fact that almost this entire storyline in this part was him trying to gain the respect and trust of his men. It wasn't just earned with one battle, no it took time and effort. But he didn't give up on them. I absolutely love his dynamic with Syl, however, this is also the biggest question mark for me??

When he was fighting with the spear, she seemed to be fighting with him? Everyone could see her. So is she drawn to the power he has or does part of the power he has come from her? I'm so intrigued!!

Adolin and Dalinar are really great characters as well. I thought that Adolin might be a bit of a spoiled kid, but I didn't think that was the case. Dalinar seems to be really honourable and I think he tries to pass this on unto his sons. Also, a big question of course is if these visions are trustworthy? I have the feeling they aren't but who knows? haha

I'm a little confused as to the Radiants and Heralds. Can someone explain that to me? I'm not sure if I missed it or if it just hasn't been fully answered yet (in that case, I'll find out of course haha). But were the Heralds the one in the prologue? And the Radiants are the ones who used to carry the Shardblades? I thought Lirin (Kaladin's father) said that the Radiants betrayed them but then Dalinar doesn't seem to think so? Or is that just because of the visions?
(hide spoiler)]

[Kathelijne]

Trisha wrote: "I finished part 2 last night but I was too sleepy to post my thoughts here. Here I go:

Let me start by saying that the book only gets better. I was not very sure of plunging into the Stormlight un..."

(view spoiler)[
b. Oh I didn't even think about that, I just thought that he gave it to Elhokar? So that would mean that Elhokar didn't earn his own Shardplate and Shardblade through battle?

c. Wit is definitely interesting! Maybe he will have something to do with Adolin's brother Renarin? There have been a couple of exchanges between them already.

d. Very interesting! Him and his brother definitely seem to be going through the same thing and visions.
(hide spoiler)]

[Kathelijne]

Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris."

I didn’t - please don’t say that I should have read those bef..."

Definitely will be reading Warbreaker next then! Are there any other easter eggs with other books or series in the cosmere?

[Kathelijne]

Dominique wrote: "Finished part 2

Dalinar has to trust Sadeas, but the actions and words makes you wonder if Sadeas will be trustworthy. I like that we got a glimpse of Dalinar's vision of the past. It does seem t..."

(view spoiler)[Absolutely agree! There must be a purpose to these visions. Maybe it's like you said and he doesn't step down after all because something happens before the announcement. Maybe Adolin will overthrow him because he thinks his father is destroying the house. But then Dalinar will be right?? (hide spoiler)]

Sorry I'm writing so much, I just have a lot to catch up on! So many thoughts haha

[Raviteja]

Kathelijne wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris."

I didn’t - please don’t say that I should ha..."

There are very minor ones with Mistborn too, but I dont find them too significant to the plot. You will be able to pick them out only if you remember all the characters and events. There are very minor ones from Elantris too, but again those are also almost not so significant.
The ones with Warbreaker are important, and you can spot them easily.

If you had read atleast another Cosmere series (Mistborn/Elantris) + warbreaker, there is one conclusion that you can draw.

[Raviteja]

Kathelijne wrote: "Finished part 2 already, this book has me hooked completely! This is the first time I'm really annotating a book and I think it was the right choice because I'm loving it.

First of all, I LOVE Ka..."

Regarding Heralds and Radiants, I will wait for you to finish the book and will talk about it if you still have questions :)

[Dominique]

Finished the book

Parts 4-5

(view spoiler)[ Love Kaladin! He's a great character. Teft suspected it ans he was right, Kaladin is a Radiant and used is power not only o save his crew but also the Kholin's. We finally know what happened to his brother, Kaladin being a witness to his death was heartbreaking. I liked that some chapters were linking him and Dalinar but man Sadeas was an evil ass. His reasoning for what he did was just worth killing him. I suspected that Elkokhar was behind the cut and the gemstones but it almost cost his uncle's life , good for him to beat him like he did especially to get named Highprince of War.
Even though the Shallan/Jasnah chapters were not long, we know that the Soulcasters don't work and Shallan's father wasa Ghostbloods and what does it mean to Shallan.
Wit shows up at the end with an Herald announcing the Desolation is coming and it's too late,what a cliffhanger (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Kathelijne, I agree with Raviteja, your confusion around the Heralds and the Radiants should get cleared by the end of the book. And I love your notes, keep sharing them! Did you look at mine? I wrote so much, it’s one of those books where you can’t stop assuming, drawing conclusions and highlighting the content in all possible colours. I did that! :D

Btw, if you are up for reading Warbreaker, we can read it together. Going by Raviteja’s advice, that’s probably the one we should start with. I also want to read the Mistborn series, but that’s too much of a commitment at this stage; Elantris seems to be an easier deal though!

[Trisha]

Also, now that I see two of you (Raviteja & Dominique) have rated it a perfect 5 on 5, it makes me think if I’d been too strict with my rating. I absolutely loved it but when I compare the plot with another 5🌟 series - A Song of Ice & Fire, I find The Way of Kings lacking in terms of the plot which is simpler than the GOT books. If I hadn’t read those, I would have rated this a perfect 5. Am I being too strict?

[Raviteja]

Trisha wrote: "Also, now that I see two of you (Raviteja & Dominique) have rated it a perfect 5 on 5, it makes me think if I’d been too strict with my rating. I absolutely loved it but when I compare the plot wit..."

hehe. I dont think so. When I read The Way of Kings, Harry Potter was my only reference, so in comparison the scale of plot and world-building was mind-blowing. You had better ones to compare with, and you didnt find it a true 5 star read I guess.

If I remember, you actually rated this 4.5 stars, which I think is fair, from your review. Its sad that GR doesnt let us rate what we really want.. But no, your rating is not too strict.

[Trisha]

Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Also, now that I see two of you (Raviteja & Dominique) have rated it a perfect 5 on 5, it makes me think if I’d been too strict with my rating. I absolutely loved it but when I compa..."

Haha, thanks! And that’s right, I rated it a 4.5 on 5, and it took all my strength to round it down to rate it in terms of stars. How I wish GRs could understand how much that additional 0.5🌟 matters!

[Kathelijne]

Raviteja wrote: "Kathelijne wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Trisha wrote: "Raviteja wrote: "Btw did you read the other Cosmere books before this? Particularly Mistborn, Warbreaker and Elantris."

I didn’t - please don’t s..."

Alright, I just finished Mistborn in December so I hope I can spot the minor ones. Mmhhh very intrigued by what that conclusion might be... :)

[Kathelijne]

Trisha wrote: "Kathelijne, I agree with Raviteja, your confusion around the Heralds and the Radiants should get cleared by the end of the book. And I love your notes, keep sharing them! Did you look at mine? I wr..."

Okay I'll come back to that at the end of the book I guess! Also, I definitely looked at your notes and love them. Completely agree!!

Yeah I'm definitely up for Warbreaker! If we should read it before Words of Radiance like Raviteja suggested, we should read it this month right?

[Trisha]

Kathelijne wrote: "Yeah I'm definitely up for Warbreaker! If we should read it before Words of Radiance like Raviteja suggested, we should read it this month right?"

Yay! Yes, we should read it this month. Let me know when you plan to read and I’ll start around the same time. We can discuss the book right here, Raviteja and Dominique can share their thoughts as well since they have already read it. :D

[Raviteja]

Kathelijne wrote: "Alright, I just finished Mistborn in December so I hope I can spot the minor ones."

I think you would have spotted it better in The Final Empire, had you read Mistborn after The Way of Kings. There is a very minor reference in Final Empire but you would not realize it if you read that book first before Stormlight Archive.

The good thing is, a similar one will come in Warbreaker, and you will not miss it :)