Poirot buddy read 38: SPOILER thread for Elephants Can Remember

[Judy]

This is the spoiler thread for Elephants Can Remember, one of Christie's last Poirot mysteries.

[Piyangie]

I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of the past, a girl wanting to find out whether her parents were guilty of murder before consenting to marry, which were very similar to Five Little Pigs, and the wigs and disguises like in the Third Girl) are thrown together with nothing original about it. The only thing I enjoyed was Ariadne Oliver and her antics.

[Greg]

I really liked that Poirot and Oliver offer a solution that is most likely fake so that the young lovers can put it all aside and LIVE. That's one thing old people do a lot: tell lies about the past so that their kids/grandkids can savour memories that aren't true. It's called a VERY GOOD DEED.

[Susan in NC]

Piyangie wrote: "I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of the past, a girl wanting to find..."

Thank you - something was nagging at me as I was reading, and that’s it! The borrowed plot points from previous stories!

I enjoyed it anyway, because of Ariadne, and I also found it rather sad, and fitting for the end of such a harrowing year, to read the rather melancholy reminiscences of the older people. So many things happen unpredictably in life, we never know what we’ll remember, or how we will end up at the end of our lives.

[Susan in NC]

Greg wrote: "I really liked that Poirot and Oliver offer a solution that is most likely fake so that the young lovers can put it all aside and LIVE. That's one thing old people do a lot: tell lies about the pas..."

Yes, very good point!

[Tara]

Piyangie wrote: "I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of the past, a girl wanting to find..."

Couldn't agree more. I also felt like there was a lot of vagueness about who said what about whom. Its almost like none of it mattered. I was also confused about which children had been murdered in the past, and by whom. It was very muddy on the details.

[Susan in NC]

Tara wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of the past, a gir..."

I agree with that - I was confused when people would just remember “something involving a child who lived nearby”, I’m sorry, if it was my kid, I’d want specifics! Or, check old police records, newspapers from the time to find out exactly what happened?

But, I guess that could also reflect the haze of aged memories looking back over the years, I can relate!

[Robin]

Susan in NC wrote: "Tara wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of th..."

And, there is the death of the obnoxious woman's child, leading to the adoption. Why is this dangled before us, as if it might have something to do with the plot - and it simply does not. Unless it is an indication of the woman's shallow character - one child dies, so another is brought in to take his place! I wonder if there was supposed to be something else there, and it was easier to go with the non-biological mother's desire to keep the adopted son's money close. Truly illogical.

[Robin]

Greg wrote: "I really liked that Poirot and Oliver offer a solution that is most likely fake so that the young lovers can put it all aside and LIVE. That's one thing old people do a lot: tell lies about the pas..."

What a kind interpretation. I thought that the whole twin thing and wigs was suspicious. But not terribly clever.

[Robin]

Susan in NC wrote: "Tara wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I read it last month and didn't like it. The story was pretty sloppy. Too many borrowed ideas from her previous books (Poirot being called to investigate a crime of th..."

Susan, yes, I thought that my old age had mellowed me somewhat in discussing this novel. However, I seem to have been fired up by the other criticism and am not being as kind as I might be.

[Frances]

I was also quite disappointed but as I mentioned in the non-spoiler post, I believe she was felt to be suffering from some form of dementia by this point in her life and was probably struggling to keep a plot together, and came up with a reasonable facsimile of one (just not terribly satisfying for those used to her great plots). Quite poignant in a way that it was titled Elephants Can Remember if she was struggling with her memory by that time.

[ChrisGA]

Greg wrote: "I really liked that Poirot and Oliver offer a solution that is most likely fake so that the young lovers can put it all aside and LIVE. That's one thing old people do a lot: tell lies about the pas..."

I must be naive but i thought their explanation made sense. Could i ask why you and others thought it wasn't true? I thought Zelie agreed with the interpretation. What did I miss?

[Frances]

I also think that what was presented as the solution was real, and was Christie's solution to the mystery. I think many of us have simply felt that it was less well written, and the plot devices were a little more obvious (perhaps because she'd used them before) and it was more confusing to follow than earlier books.

[Susan in NC]

Frances wrote: "I was also quite disappointed but as I mentioned in the non-spoiler post, I believe she was felt to be suffering from some form of dementia by this point in her life and was probably struggling to ..."

Oh, that’s sad, I had no idea.

[Jessica-sim]

Oh wow, I never really considered that Poirot might be cooking up a story just to make a love-match again! And I also don't really think he did, it would have been an awful lot of trouble to think this solution out and get so many accomplices too. Working up to the solution he repeatedly warns that the truth might not be easy to handle but nevertheless that is all he can offer. No, I do think this was the actual solution. Perhaps if we by now weren't so trained in picking up all the sub plots and red herrings and we didn't deeply suspect any ig that ever crosses our paths, perhaps then the storyline would be more satisfactory.

But even with a lesser storyline I still enjoyed the story, after the majority of the frenzied house calls by Ariadne were over. With the contemplations on old age and memory loss I found it a bit darker in tone. Especially when the narrator mentioned regarding Poirots fading fame:

‘Many of the people who had heard of him and known him were now reposing with suitable memorial stones over them in church yards.’
Ouch, I hope Poirot didn't hear that...

[Tara]

Jessica wrote: "Oh wow, I never really considered that Poirot might be cooking up a story just to make a love-match again! And I also don't really think he did, it would have been an awful lot of trouble to think ..."

There are also a lot of musings about Hastings, and how much he misses having him around. I wonder if some of that is regret on Christie's part for banishing him so quickly? Thats one of the things I like so much about the Suchet shows--they managed to weave him rather deftly into stories he wasn't originally part of. I think as Christie's skill as a writer grew, she would have found a way to incorporate him more in a way that wasn't as much of a direct parallel to Holmes/Watson as the first stories were.

[Sandy]

While I enjoyed reading this for the Poirot and Ariadne interaction, with a walk-on scene by Mr. Goby, I agree the plot was a mash-up of prior plot points: twins and wigs come to mind.

If Christie was suffering from dementia, and knew it, this must have been a hard book for her to write: a tribute to the ability she was losing. Is it actually her last book? I think I heard she had written the final Poirot, and Marple, during the war and put them aside.

[Jessica-sim]

Oh that's interesting Sandy! I googled it and it does seem that the Last Poirot and Marple were written 36 years earlier. Hm will be interesting to see the difference in style next month and whether or not all the loose ends tie up.

[Adrian]

Unfortunately towards the end of last year for some reason I hit some form of reading slump and started dropping behind in Jessica's Poirot challenge, so I am only just starting this book. As yet I haven't come across too many similarities to other novels and I'm enjoying it, so I will see.

[Jessica-sim]

Don’t worry Adrian, I think we all envy you a bit of not having reached the end yet!

[Adrian]

Jessica wrote: "Don’t worry Adrian, I think we all envy you a bit of not having reached the end yet!"

Ha ha, thanks Jessica. I'm on a roll this month (5th Agatha book so far), so I might actually get to Curtainbefore January is out.

[Adrian]

In the end I really enjoyed Elephants Can Remember, and wasn't bothered by any similarities with previous books (or even noticed any tbh). Maybe because I seem to have got my enjoyment for reading back after an Autumn slump.
So far this month I've almost finished 5 Christies, 3 Poirot's, 1 Marple and "Frankie and Bobby", and have not been bored or jaded with any repetitiveness at all.