What’s your favourite kind of HR hero? Examples please.

[HR-ML]

Sandra wrote: "I like Eloise a lot, both in the books and on TV. The story of Eloise and the future husband is very interesting.

HR-ML, are you (re)reading the Bridgertons books?

The North & South civil war a..."

1) No, I am not re-reading Bridgerton bk series.
2) No, the 1st "North & South" was produced in US about the Civil War (had Patrick Swayze as star ) & the other "No. & So. " was produced by BBC (based on a book) about the beginning of the Industrial Revo. in the UK. IMO both good. Both had romance. 2nd one had class conflict.

[Sandra]

ohh, ok! I saw the two of them and I was thinking I didn't saw the relation, except on the name! ;)

[HR-ML]

I wish they would not have named them ( TV series) the same.
The 1st one above was about the American Civil War.

North and South
This was book the BBC made into a series. Mr. Thornton was a
cotton mill owner, whose men were itching to start a union.
Thornton rented a flat to a disgraced vicar, his wife & beautiful dtr
who now needed to economize. The vicar's dtr made assumptions
& most who met her, thought her snobbish. These 2 fought their
attraction to each other.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

HR-ML wrote: "I like Eloise best on Netflix series. But I just read Amazon reviews on 'her story. ' Sir Philip reportedly raped his late, depressed wife Marina. I avoid this type of trope.

Many of us saw "North..."

Interesting on the reviews on Amazon. I have never read it and thought that about Sir Philip, but I think I understand the criticism. I don't think there is an "unwilling" component, just not excited I guess. I might need to reread though.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "HR-ML wrote: "I like Eloise best on Netflix series. But I just read Amazon reviews on 'her story. ' Sir Philip reportedly raped his late, depressed wife Marina. I avoid this type of trope.

Many of..."

So I tried to find what was being referred to, and I think this is the passage, under spoiler tag: (view spoiler)[

When the twins were a bit older, and Phillip had thought—hoped, really—that Marina was getting better, he had visited her in her bedchamber.

Once.

She had not refused him, but nor had she taken part in his lovemaking. She’d just lain there, doing nothing, her head turned to the side, her eyes open, barely blinking. It was almost as if she hadn’t been there at all.

He’d left feeling soiled, morally corrupt, as if he’d somehow violated her, even though she had never uttered the word no.

And he had never touched her again.
(hide spoiler)]

So I ultimately read it as her consenting as part of her duty but not with her body and (view spoiler)[ it’s important to me that he felt it was wrong. It is tough one though and I understand not liking the book or the hero for it. (hide spoiler)]

[HR-ML]

Joanna Loves Reading---

I think most times the man had more sexual experience so it was his job to make a woman comfortable. He could ask her, did she like his kissing her lips? neck? and so on. Also some romance books are skimpy on foreplay ( not saying this applies to this book) & the emotional aspect is glossed over. He should have tried at least once again?

[OLT]

Dear lord, HR-ML, if the author adds in too many pages of foreplay, in addition to the ten to fifteen pages of each encounter of slot A in slot B, all we will have is a sex manual. We do have a lot more oral sex in the stories nowadays. Will that do? And I suspect romance novels are so popular with women because in real life men ain't all that romantic or quite as talented in bed as the heroes are. A lot of them are more like the heroes in a Mary Balogh romance.

[OLT]

How much sex is enough or too much in a novel is very subjective. If the sex is important to the story and not just filler, I'm all for it. If it's just there for prurient interest, not so much. IMO, a lot of the sex in the TV version of the Bridgertons was verging towards the prurient, but I don't think the series would have been as popular without it. Even I enjoyed looking at a nude Rege Jean Page, and wouldn't have objected to a full frontal.

[HR-ML]

Yes, sex in a novel is subjective. I often think 'less is more' : leave
some to the imagination.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

HR-ML wrote: "Joanna Loves Reading---

I think most times the man had more sexual experience so it was his job to make a woman comfortable. He could ask her, did she like his kissing her lips? neck? and so on. A..."

Yea, he certainly didn’t understand how to help her better. Maybe it was a matter of making her more comfortable, asking what she likes. I think it’s up to the reader to fill in those blanks if they want. I don’t think we are given enough details to say he did or didn’t do those things. However, there’s certainly coping tactics displayed by him through avoiding the issue and getting lost in his work. I don’t recall exactly, but I don’t think he was very experienced, was 21 and studious and then remained faithful to his wife.

Books with depression seem to work for me for some reason. 🤷‍♀️

[HR-ML]

I don't mind some depression or angst in novels. And realize some holidays such as Christmas may bring up mixed emotions. But one Christmas rom I read was too gloomy!

[Sandra]

I think the kind of sex the author describes with Philip and Marina was actually very common in this centuries. Usually the authors only talk about this kind of relationship when they are talking about the "bad, old and fat" husband who only have "good" sex with his mistress. Sometimes, we see that question in the hero mind, because he wants to do more passionate sex with his wife, but we shouldn't because he most "respect" the wife. When I read the book I never saw this case as a "rape" but as a typical sex relation in this time frame. Off course this books have a lot of steamy scenes, some very hot, and to fast for what should be the circumstances in this time but I think that wasn't the common relation between a couple in the 18th and 19th century. I think it's weird and very unrealistic what happens in all this sex scenes, a girl will be ruined if was caught with a men in a garden, but when they are together and things happens, they go from the first kiss to a sex scene in 5 minutes... just saying... I don't think this was the usual as we read in books. And another thing, someone told in a comment that the hero's in this stories are better lovers than the usual man, I think you're right because all this lovers can make a female have always and sometimes multiple orgasms, like this is the most easy thing and if studies says that must women don't have an orgasm in the sex relation. Maybe this 18th century hero's should teach some things to the contemporary men! ;)

[Sandra]

The Duke of Hastings... And he also sings!!!
https://youtu.be/8I39yaGhhdg

[HR-ML]

Sandra---

You made good points in your message #167. Perhaps we woman
were taught to idealize love and romance? I blame some of that
on happy endings in Hollywood love stories. Many such stories
featured the hero as 15-20+ yrs older then the heroine. Almost
as if the Hollywood producer covets the fresh, young, pretty woman.

[OLT]

Sandra wrote: "The Duke of Hastings... And he also sings!!!
https://youtu.be/8I39yaGhhdg"

Don't do that to me, Sandra. I'm old enough to be his grandmother but he still gives me the shivers.

[Susan in Perthshire]

I don’t believe Philip raped Marianna. This is my favourite book of the series and I’ve read it a few times as I love the relationship between Eloise and Phillip and the children. It is clear that his wife and serious problems and with the knowledge we have today, she would be receiving different treatment. But this is set in an era when mental health problems were not understood and where the position of women was legally very different to what we enjoy today. I see Marianne consenting to what she would probably have seen her ‘wifely’ duties but Philip realised after one attempt, he couldn’t do it - even though by the law and practice of the times, he would have been perfectly entitled to do so. The fact that he doesn’t do anything like that, reflects well on him.

[HR-ML]

Susan in Perthshire,

Thanks for your POV.

[Jan]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I don’t believe Philip raped Marianna. This is my favourite book of the series and I’ve read it a few times as I love the relationship between Eloise and Phillip and the children. It is clear that ..."

I had similar thoughts, Susan. I feel sad for Phillip's wife and the depressive illness she suffered that, as you say, people at the time didn't understand or know how to deal with. When I read HR, I try to understand the mindset and mores of the day and I try to avoid overlaying 21st century knowledge and ideas onto them. I am never comfortable with cruelty, mindless violence or actions with deliberate evil intent, but I don't see those in that book.

[Sandra]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I don’t believe Philip raped Marianna. This is my favourite book of the series and I’ve read it a few times as I love the relationship between Eloise and Phillip and the children. It is clear that ..."


Jan wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I don’t believe Philip raped Marianna. This is my favourite book of the series and I’ve read it a few times as I love the relationship between Eloise and Phillip and the..."

I had the same idea of what happen between Philip and Marina. We tend to think of the past with a present mind but we definitely can't do that. In College I took a degree in History, my mind is always slipping to the other centuries frame of mind, but maybe that is not so common as it should be. Maybe the writers shoulded put some disclousures in their books.

[Sandra]

HR-ML wrote: "Sandra---

You made good points in your message #168. Perhaps we woman
were taught to idealize love and romance? I blame some of that
on happy endings in Hollywood love stories. Many such stories..."

We have also the Disney stories with always happily ever after to thank for! ;)

[Sandra]

OLT wrote: "Sandra wrote: "The Duke of Hastings... And he also sings!!!
https://youtu.be/8I39yaGhhdg"

Don't do that to me, Sandra. I'm old enough to be his grandmother but he still gives me the shivers."

Ahahah!!

[Sandra]

Talking about my favorite hero, I didn't know there were so many Mr. Darcy
https://www.pinterest.pt/pin/38252456...

[Sandra]

And this was also fun!

https://www.bookbub.com/blog/things-i...