Victorians! discussion
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Conversations in the Parlor
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General chit-chat and information (part 2)
I usually read about 3 books at the same time--a classic, a contemporary, and a trivia/jokebook/artbook/graphic. It took me about 3 months to read Middlemarch but during that time period I also read Loving Frank, Murder Suicide, and the Historian, and Persepolis.I rarely read just one book straight through without breaking it up. When I have difficulty getting a book and take it out of the library I do read it so I finish it before it is due. I often read mysteries and graphic novels one at a time.
Paula wrote: "I may have asked this before, but I'm curious again...
How many books do you each read at the same time? I just realized I have a whole shelf of books I'm currently reading (not a GR shelf, a 'rea..."
Thanks, Darcy!!Merry Christmas, everyone! Hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday!!
If I'm reading a fairly "heavy" non fiction book, I'll usually be reading a novel at the same time. But I tend to finish a novel before moving on to another. Unless...it's a very long novel that will take more than four or five days to read and then I'll need shorter things in between. I also review books for work, and if they're not something I'm really into, I'll try to get them out of the way in two days, setting aside other things, as the reviews need to be out within the month. I also usually am slowly reading a theology piece every night. So about four, I guess.
I'm not sure where to post this to get the biggest audience, so will just be hopeful that it gets read here:For those of you looking to push a new publisher, a new author, etc., please find another group! This is not a site to jump into just to promote a new book! There have been quite a few new posts started lately just to act as advertisements, which is not the point of the group.
However, if you would like to join the group, participate in a few of the discussions, then casually mention an upcoming book, that is most welcome. I completely understand that some of our members are also authors and I think that's way cool, but greatly appreciate when the authors are also members (if that makes sense) not just advertisers.
Also, if you'd like to start a new discussion thread, please check to see whether or not a discussion already exists. New topics are great, but duplicates tend to water down the discussion as it gets split between multiple threads. Whenever in doubt, please feel free to ask Boof or myself, we are completely here to help! :)
Thanks all, for listening to my little rants! :)
Paula wrote: "I may have asked this before, but I'm curious again...How many books do you each read at the same time?"
Usually have at four significant books going regularly, at the different places in the house where I read -- living room for my major reads (right now, Anna Karenina and Our Mutual Friend, both re-reads), office (usually a business or professional book), bedroom, and throne room (always a light book, right not the latest volume of the Complete Peanuts, often Jeeves)). I hate to carry books from place to place. But I tend to dip into books a lot for an hour or two, stuff like essays, poetry, short stories, reference, plays etc. Plus I may have two or three books going at one of my locations. Right now, for example, my bedside table has Benet's John Brown's Body, Diderot's Memoirs of a Nun, Montaigne's Essays, and Lamb's Essays of Elia, and I read in whichever one I'm feeling like that night. So it's hard to say how many I am reading at one time.
I think some books weren't meant to be read straight through, and without breaks; Montaigne's Essays come to mind, which you mentioned also, Eman. I think I've been perusing that tome for 2 years now and am maybe 30% done with the book. I'm in no rush, sometimes it's just nice to enjoy his thoughts on a random topic.
Paula wrote: "I think some books weren't meant to be read straight through, and without breaks; Montaigne's Essays come to mind, which you mentioned also, Eman. I think I've been perusing that tome for 2 years n..."I treat most books of essays that way. I have several favorite essayists -- Lamb, Montaigne, Orwell, E.V. Lucas, E.B.White, Johnson, Graham, to mention a few -- which I visit on a fairly regular basis to enjoy one or two essays at a time.
Montaigne has been on my bedside table now for several months; he replaced Lamb who had been there for about as long. I suspect Montaigne will soon be replaced, probably by Orwell or Lucas.
As many as I can keep straight. Had seven earlier this year, which was probably too many.
Everyman wrote: "Paula wrote: "I may have asked this before, but I'm curious again...How many books do you each read at the same time?"
Usually have at four significant books going regularly, at the different pl..."
I read quite a few books at the same time, too. I read from the Bible every day and usually from a devotional book or book of daily readings. Also some Bible commentaries for a study that I'm leading. I've just started Anna Karenina again and am about to begin The Children's book. I'm dipping into three books about Anna and am gearing up for another Trollope. My friend Mahlon recommended The Shadow of the Wind to me, so I'm going to at least test it out. My parents are suffering from normal nonagenarian memory loss, so I'm reading a book about becoming your parents' parent. I do a lot of reading in doctors' waiting rooms. (My Kindle goes everywhere with me.) Oh, and one of Jules Verne's books in French to practice my French. There may be others that I can't think of just now. (This memory loss thing is catching.) Fortunately, I'm retired, so I have a lot of time for reading--so far.
Oooh, I picked up TSotW not too long ago and just read the first few pages, which was enough to convince me that I'll like it; however, I probably won't have time to pick it up again until at least February.
I just saw the new Sherlock Holmes movie and thought that the recreation of Victorian London was fabulous. I also enjoyed the characterizations of Holmes and Watson as being less stuffy than previous portrayals, and perhaps because Holmes was skilled at bare-knuckle fighting and some martial arts, this would not be too much of a stretch. Certainly lots of action.
We were planning on seeing that movie last night but ended up at a friend's house playing on their Wii (those things are addicting!). Perhaps tonight... Holmes!!
Paula wrote: "We were planning on seeing that movie last night but ended up at a friend's house playing on their Wii (those things are addicting!). Perhaps tonight... Holmes!!"Our son is home from college until mid-January and we went to see Holmes earlier this week. I like the depiction of Holmes' physicality as well as the set design. While I have had some time to do some reading and some posting I am trying to spend some time playing games and watching DVDs together as a family. When he's gone back I definitely will read more as part of my New Year's resolution.
Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks and Borders Express stores, and B&N is closing their B. Dalton stores in 2010, but am having a hard time getting confirmation. Seems like the on-line stores are running away with the book sales, which isn't surprising, and with the Kindle/nook/eReader devices that are becoming increasingly popular, the good ol' bookstores are struggling. I'm a fan of progress and enhancements in several areas (including technology) but I think I'd cry if any of my nearby bookstores (new or used) closed their doors permanently.
I have a whole slew of stores I visit - Borders on my way home from work for great selection of non-fiction history books; B&N for good discounts on new books; Downtown Books (used) for great classics and cheap books in general...
Paula wrote: "Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks and Borders Express stores,..."As a former owner of an independent bookstore (largest bookstore in El Dorado County, California) who was put out of business when Borders moved in a couple miles down the road, I fervently hope that ALL Borders, Barnes & Noble, and Waldenbooks will close down tomorrow! Booklovers unite: shop at your local independent bookstores. Put your money in the pockets of local folks who really love books, not into the corporate slush pile!
Paula wrote: "Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks and Borders Express stores,..."I'm torn here. I love my small local bookstore, BUT they don't have much of a selection of the books I like. I get a much better selection AND pay a lot less buying online, or getting classic books free for my Kindle.
Like it or not, an increasing amount of commerce is going online, including books. (I just bought a new kitchen range online, cheaper even than Home Depot sells it, and with shipping included so I don't have to go pick it up. And no pressure to buy an extended warranty.)
For those of us who live in relatively remote areas, where the selection of books is limited and the prices high, I have to admit that Amazon has a lot of benefit. Sorry, Gerald, but I generally go into bookstores knowing what I want, so the display or browsing features are mostly irrelevant.
In an ideal world, the small independent bookseller would survive and thrive. But as it is, I suspect that only those which specialize in niche areas with passionate patrons will flourish.
Meanwhile, I absolutely LOVE the access to second hand book sources I can get on the Internet. When I remember how much trouble I had forty years ago finding the books I want (try buying a book of E.V. Lucas's essays at any local bookstore, or some of the minor Walter Scott novels), the Internet is a miracle of convenience, selection, and price.
I have to agree - online shopping is much more conveninet. I'm also tired of the blank look on the faces of employees at large bookstores when I ask anything about a classic book. However, when I go up to a nearby used bookstore, the owner and I have conversations about different genres and he has an amazing amount of literary knowledge. Even though I try to buy local I can't go to my local bookstore. Their prices are significantly higher than elsewhere, it takes twice as long for shipments to arrive, and I get frustrated by the incorrect placement of books.
What I like about new and used bookstores is just standing around so many books, and perusing for good deals. I like seeing little kids whose eyes light up because their parents are buying them a book. I like hearing the story-hour in the children's section while I wander among the regular shelves. I like seeing a group of random people get together to talk about a recent book they've read as a group, or a group of teenagers who think it's way cool to hang out at the cafe area with stacks of books.
Don't get me wrong, I am a regular on Amazon, love my Kindle, and the convenience of buying both used and new on-line, but I would be sad to see true bookstores close down.
Paula wrote: "Don't get me wrong, I am a regular on Amazon, love my Kindle, and the convenience of buying both used and new on-line, but I would be sad to see true bookstores close down."Exactly. Ditto.
Everyman wrote: "Paula wrote: "Don't get me wrong, I am a regular on Amazon, love my Kindle, and the convenience of buying both used and new on-line, but I would be sad to see true bookstores close down."Exactly...."You know, if you buy used books online, you are buying from an independent book dealer. Amazon, ABE, Alibris take a little off the top, but over 90% of what you pay for the book goes to the book dealer. Amazon, etc. don't have an inventory of used books; they pass your order on to the dealer who owns the book you want. He packs it up and sends it to you, and the money goes into his PayPal account. I know about this because in addition to owning three independent bookstores in California I sold many, many books online. You might be interested to know that Amazon makes more money from used book sales passed on to people like me than they do from new book sales and they don't have to stock the books or pack and ship the books. I do that, and I take the bulk of money to the bank. So I encourage you all to shop for books online--as long as you're buying used books from an independent bookseller.
Gerry
Paula wrote: "Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks and Borders Express stores,..."I also heard that the Waldenbooks would be closing this year. I wasn't terribly surprised. Compared to B&N and Borders their selection is nonexistent. I agree with you though it would be sad to lose the bookstores. B&N is one of my favorite places.
Eliza wrote: "Paula wrote: "Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks and Borders E..."Don't shed any tears over B & N or Borders stores closing. If they are closing it's because the location is not good for the corporation. It will open again somewhere else. Keep in mind we are in a recession, and book sales are probably down for everyone, so B & N is probably pulling in a bit to help the bottom line. Starbucks outlets are closing as well, but Starbucks as a corporation will never die either. Meanwhile B&N is doing their damndest to put independent bookstores out of business.Every independent bookstore that closes is a community resource that will never be replaced. Those are the bookstores to cry over!Gerry
Gerry
Completely appreciate your opinion, Gerald, but I do love my local B&N and Borders. If they re-open somewhere else that is further away, that does sadden me, because I do feel that it is a resource lost. It employs local people, if nothing else. I don't want to get into a big debate over the right type of society, but I work for a big corporation, so have no desire to see them driven out of business, either.
Paula wrote: "Completely appreciate your opinion, Gerald, but I do love my local B&N and Borders. If they re-open somewhere else that is further away, that does sadden me, because I do feel that it is a resource..."Hey, I agree we need corporations, and employing local people is a good thing. I would ask, however, does the corporation you work for open retail outlets a mile or two from a locally-owned independent store and then deliberately undercut prices on the most purchased items at that store (in the book business, we call them "best sellers") to a price that is less than they or the independent store must pay for them in order to drive the independent store out of business? That kind of corporation is, in my view, evil. Biggest evil of all is Wall*Mart!
Gerald wrote: "Eliza wrote: "Paula wrote: "Has anyone else heard about Borders and B&N closing some of their stores in January 2010? I ran across a couple articles that Borders is going to close their Waldenbooks..."I agree with you that local stores should be supported. To that end I buy all of my knitting books from my local independent knitting store and I patronize my local used book store wherever possible. Unfortunately I don't know of any independent book stores for new books in my area so B&N becomes my best option.
Hi Gerald - I really don't want to offend anyone (including you) but I don't want to turn this into a debate about political or economic correctness. I apologize for introducing the topic, which, as a bookseller, seems to be extremely close to your heart, and not in a pleasant way. I hope you have found happiness in your new endeavor, and continue to enjoy books in general.
Edit: sorry, Paula, I didn't see your caveat until after I had posted this. I quit the discussion with this post.Gerald wrote: "Biggest evil of all is Wall*Mart!"
Ah, I wondered how soon we would get around to that. Certainly if I were a small business owner I would hate Walmart. But since I'm not, I'm a consumer on a fixed income, I will freely admit that I like being able to go to one store, get almost everything I need, and come home having spent much less of both time and money than I would have if I had had to go from small retail store to small retail store.
If I want specialty or higher quality items I'll go to the local store. But for buying toothpaste, milk, light bulbs, cleaning supplies, and on and on, it'll be a hard slog to persuade me that I should fork over more of my money for the identical item just because it's a small store and not part of a big chain.
I do understand the hatred of them. But they really do allow me to take care of the basics and have more money to spend on books.
I'm all done venting. Sorry to get carried away. Shop where you like.Gerry
Paula wrote: "I have to agree - online shopping is much more conveninet. I'm also tired of the blank look on the faces of employees at large bookstores when I ask anything about a classic book. However, when I g..."I've been thinking about all this the past few days, and it crossed my mind that, for me, Goodreads, Shelfari, and the like are taking the place of (and perhaps in a better way than) what I used to like about going into bookstores. Hearing about new books, discussing books with people who share my interest--this is what counts for me. I don't get out much anymore, and I try to keep myself from buying books that don't fit into my Kindle, but I find myself reading and discussing books more than ever. It's a new world, and I like it.
Don't forget to check out the interview with Gail carriger in the authors thread.
Hi All-I just added two new polls, neither having to do with a specific book. The first poll is an attempt to get feedback from the group about how members participate in the group reads; if they read and discuss, or don't read and why.
We have over 500 members but the last few group reads seemed to have low participation, but we have a wealth of nominations and votes that come in, so I'm trying to get at the reason for the disparity between voting and discussion.
The second poll is to see if members want to change the types of books we read, and the frequency. Obviously we won't stray from Victorian, but we could read fewer neo-Victorian, read some non-fiction, read a book a month instead of having two months for each group read, etc.
For both polls, if you aren't happy with the options, please do add comments with your answer. The more feedback we can gather the better!
Also, please know this isn't a knock against anyone who doesn't participate. We don't "police" the members and kick you out if you don't comment (I saw that in another group and was stunned). And we completely understand that some people like to read others' comments but might not feel comfortable posting their own thoughts, or simply don't have time.
Thank you, all! :)
Gabriele wrote: "I thought you might find my current blog of interest - Victorian Dress Torture"And yet, women kept on wearing such clothing. Tight lacing is a fashion even today among a small subset of women.
I read an article in the National Geographic about Laredo, Texas, where even today there is a debutante ball on Washington's birthday each year, where the debutantes all dress up in clothing modeled on that era -- including hoop skirts which weigh 55 pounds and often leave bruises on the girl's hips.
Here's an article about it which says that the dresses may actually weigh up to 80 pounds, in which the young woman must dance all evening.
Hard to be too critical of the Victorians when some among us continue the same traditions today. And if my reading is accurate, corset wearing to this degree was only practiced by a fairly small subset of women, those in society. The vast number of women -- servants, wives of tradesmen, farmers, etc., as far as I know, didn't engage in any of this nonsense. You had to be at a high level of society to want to abuse yourself this way.
We have over 500 members but the last few group reads seemed to have low participation, but we have a wealth of nominations and votes that come in, so I'm trying to get at the reason for the disparity between voting and discussion."This disparity isn't confined to Victorians. But some groups do place an emphasis on asking people only to vote for books if they intend to be active in the discussion of them. Obviously things happen in life and good intentions can go astray. But at the same time, there may be people who vote for books who have only a mild interest in actually discussing them.
It might be interesting, if you had the time, to go back to some previous polls and compare the list of people who voted for the book selected vs. the list of those who engaged in the discussion, and then privately and confidentially ask those who voted but didn't discuss why they chose not to get involved in the discussion.
In the group I moderate, I sometimes go thorough the list of those who voted for a book and, if I find names of people who aren't in the discussion, send them a private message reminding them that we are now discussing the book they voted for and encouraging them to come join the discussion. That might also be something you could consider.
In my own case, I won't vote for a book unless I intend to read and discuss it with the group. But my reading time is very limited, and the number of books I want to read is vast, so if a book is chosen that I am not particularly interested in reading, I'll pass on the book and the discussion without any feeling of guilt or remorse (not that you're suggesting that anybody should feel guilty, I do understand that!)
Everyman wrote: "It might be interesting, if you had the time, to go back to some previous polls and compare the list of people who voted for the book selected vs. the list of those who engaged in the discussion, and then privately and confidentially ask those who voted but didn't discuss why they chose not to get involved in the discussion. ..."This was suggested by someone else, but, to be honest, I don't feel quite right doing that. This is a completely voluntary group, it's not work, it's not homework, and I don't want anyone to feel pressured to read a book because of a vote. It could taint a wonderful book experience. I also don't want to give the impression that we are 'policing' the group that way. Feels too much like the early stages of Anthem or 1984 which both made me shudder.
I completely understand, however, the reasons for doing that; you don't want a book voted in that nobody is going to discuss. I like the idea of a polite reminder, though, that their book is now being discussed, but with the auto-email that our group is about to read a book, wonder if that might not be repetitive?
At any rate, completely appreciate the feedback!! :)
Everyman, you're absolutely right that servants and working women didn't encumber themselves with clothing to the degree that the gentility did. And when more middle and upper class women started to do active things - whether work or sports - the fashion changed, but not until the end of the century.
Everyman wrote: "You had to be at a high level of society to want to abuse yourself this way. ..."Off-topic from Victorian times, but...
Do you think this is true today? It seems that every time I step into the check-out line anywhere, I'm bombarded by women who go to extremes to look a certain way; physically harming diets, hours of primping, drug/alcohol addictions (hey, at least there are no calories with drugs), and this seemingly self-inflicted abuse just to look a certain way.
It's amazing, and really sad, in my eyes, the lengths to which people go to just to look a certain way.
(this isn't to say I don't fully appreciate those who engage in basic personal hygiene!)
Paula wrote: "Everyman wrote: "You had to be at a high level of society to want to abuse yourself this way. ..."Off-topic from Victorian times, but...
Do you think this is true today? It seems that every time..."
Yes, I know what you mean. When I nip to the shop for a pint of milk or something I will literally go in what I'm stood up in but some women are decked out in 5" heels, faces plastered in make-up etc. I'm not knocking people who look like that at all, it's all about individual choices, but personally I do wonder where they get the time and inclination sometimes. And for whom?
Boof wrote: "personally I do wonder where they get the time and inclination sometimes. And for whom? ..."Exactly! I think it's competition with themselves, actually. Concern about one's appearance is more often an portrayal about one's concern about themself, just projected outward.
And who has the time, like you said? For example, I have naturally wavey/curly hair, and many of my friends with similar hair spend an hour in the morning straightening and styling it - that's valuable time I could spend reading! Let it go curly, I say :)
If it's the choice between straigh hair and books? CURLY WINS EVERY TIME!
I can't understand the killer stiletto heels. If I stand or walk in anything other than just a slight heel, my feet, legs, back start to hurt. Unfashionable, but flat shoes for me.
Gabriele wrote: "I can't understand the killer stiletto heels. If I stand or walk in anything other than just a slight heel, my feet, legs, back start to hurt. Unfashionable, but flat shoes for me."I think VERY hard about agreeing to go anywhere that would require me to change out of my daily outfit of sports short, jeans, comfy but clunky shoes, and in winter fleece vest. I do have one pair of dress pants and a sports jacket, but I've only put them on three or four times in the past year.
That's fun to get a male perspective :) I'm a big fan of comfy clothes but have to dress up for work every day.
Any heels but wedges are right out for me - they don't have enough support for the right foot.That said, I wear heels (almost typed "hells") most infrequently. No, the cute flat is where it's at as far as I'm concerned.
Paula wrote: "That's fun to get a male perspective :) I'm a big fan of comfy clothes but have to dress up for work every day. "Me too. When I'm out in meetings I have to wear suits and heals etc but I'm lucky that I work from home the rest of the time so I just stick on either jeans or tracksuit bottoms and a cosy jumper and veg infront of my laptop. I swear if some of my clients could see what I looked like when I'm on the phone to them they'd be horrified!
Paula wrote: "Hi All-I just added two new polls, neither having to do with a specific book. The first poll is an attempt to get feedback from the group about how members participate in the group reads; if th..."
Well, I didn't notice the second poll at all. Totally my own oversight; I pay attention to polls and just missed seeing this one. I'm writing this post, then, to say that in the second poll, I would have voted for "leave out the neo-Vics." I am interested in the Victorian period itself, and would rather have the option of a group discussion on another Victorian book, be it fiction or non-, or a contemporary biography or some such. I'll say here also that my participation in GR book discussions generally has diminished over the last three months or so because the books I vote for lose in the polls almost every time. I've been reading a spate of what *I want to read, across all the genres of my groups.
Original post from Chandra:Hi all!
I came across this article in Newsweek the other day and thought I would share:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/230737
That's really interesting! She was very ahead of her time, I think.
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Victorians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Count of Monte Cristo (other topics)The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
The Count of Monte Cristo (other topics)
The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Anthony Trollope (other topics)Anthony Trollope (other topics)
Anthony Trollope (other topics)
Henry James (other topics)
Louisa May Alcott (other topics)
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Paula, ..."
I'm enjoying it, Lauren. So great to have something good to watch on TV.