Jewish Book Club discussion
2020 Poll Winners
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2020/12 Discussion of Kitty Zeldis' Not Our Kind--POLL WINNER
I will be reading this book with the group as I just got it in from the library!
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Yay! 😄
Hi,Just finished the book and I really enjoyed it! I thought the author captured the setting and time beautifully and I was rooting for the protagonist. The anti-semitism of that time period was so blatant. It was quite shocking.
What did you all think of the characters?
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Just finished the book and I really enjoyed it! I thought the author captured the setting and time beautifully and I was rooting for the protagonist. The anti-semitism of that time period was s..."
Hi Lori....
Im glad you liked the book.
This book portrays two cultures which are opposites of each other.
Do you think the intermarriage/relationship issue is more or less blatant today; as a whole.
Anyone who wants to jump in here- would be welcomed.
I am sure I will be back in 5 minutes explaining this question. :)
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I have this book and hoped to start today but over the holiday weekend I started another book - so I'm reading 3 books right now. As soon as I finish one of them I'll start this one.
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Having too many books to read gets overwhelming, but not having enough, or any, would be much much worse!
Maybe we'll be bringing up the rear together, Denise. Or more likely you'll pull ahead of me! ☺️
I read it in one day! It was ok but it wasn’t my favorite. Here’s my thoughts☺️
Rating: 1 stars
Fav character: Idrina(Eleanor’s mom)
Least fav character: Patricia and Tom
I thought the racism and sexism was aptly and compassionately portrayed.
However, i was offended by the blatant disrespect of marriage by Tom and Eleanor’s fornication and by Patricia and Wynn’s easy divorce. I was disgusted by how spoiled Margeaux was and Tom + Wynn were enabled to be womanizers.
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Here’s my thoughts☺️
Rating: 1 stars
Fav character: Idrina(Eleanor’s mom)
Least fav character: Patricia and Tom
I thought the racism and..."
Well, not sure how "okay but not (your) favorite" jibes with the one star, but good for you, jumping in, ClaraBelle. Maybe we'll have lots of different opinions on the sex part; haven't gotten to it myself so can't say! Is there anything positive you got from it other than wishing for improved behavior along that line?
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Jan wrote: "ClaraBelle wrote: "I read it in one day! It was ok but it wasn’t my favorite. Here’s my thoughts☺️
Rating: 1 stars
Fav character: Idrina(Eleanor’s mom)
Least fav character: Patricia and Tom
I tho..."
What I got positive from it was that the interracial relationship was inspiring despite some things they did that I didn’t agree with.
I finally started the book, but I'm reading 3 other books at the same time, so it won't be in a day:)Right now the only thing I have to say is it is set in the neighborhood where I live. Interesting to me how its portrayed.
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Im going to jump in shortly.
Was a very busy day- finally!!! :)
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Im going to jump in shortly.
Was a very busy day- finally!!! :)"
Also, I am not getting notifications or emails re comments to JBC.
I double checked my settings.
The only way I saw this was going on GR's a few seconds ago.
Cant anything ever be easy?
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Right now the only thing I have to say is it is set in the neighborhood where I live. Interest..."
Denise- very interested in your comment regarding the neighborhood. I will guess it's Patricia's? Tell us what you find interesting. I am familiar with restricted clubs, specific living areas, and all that goes with it. Where I live it is still active, but the funny thing is that two of the major anti-semitic clubs have changed their
"rules" on member/guests. Why? Because of intermarriage. The original member stays the same, but the spouse is more or less simply a guest. It happened because the families all wanted to be together for holidays and celebrations, regardless of their underlying opinions of jews. They also knew they would leave and find another club that was not prejudiced.
Stacey wrote: "Stacey wrote: "Jan wrote: "Ha -- Stacey should jump in. She's actually read it, I'm pretty sure!"Im going to jump in shortly.
Was a very busy day- finally!!! :)"
Also, I am not getting notificati..."
I’m having problems getting GR emails too!
Denise wrote: "One thing I wanted to add about a character , Margeaux [spoilers removed]"Loved how Margeaux’s struggle with polio was included as it was so poignant for that time period!
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Not yet, but I was on when yours came.
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I read it.
I was going to take this one, and you were taking "Enemies".
I didn't read that one. Im going to have to figure out how to get updates.
"Digest" is only once a day.
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Loved how Margeaux’s struggle with polio was included as it was so poignant for that time period!"
Margeaux was actually a very sensitive smart girl. Very insecure because of it.
You can tell how much she differs from her mother.
I read this a week early! So forgot to post. I didn't love the book... But I do love how vibrant a group you both have created Jan and Stacey!I didn't love this book. I did not think the characters were fleshed out well, nor did I get too involved in anyone's particular plight. I did feel that the heroine being Jewish really was almost irrelevant to the plot. So there was a little anti-semitism there, it didn't really fuel much to me. This could just as easily been about class differences, and "out of crowd" differences, as it was about fear of the unknown. It kind of meant nothing to the story in my opinion. I could have skipped this one honestly.
Amy wrote: "I read this a week early! So forgot to post. I didn't love the book... But I do love how vibrant a group you both have created Jan and Stacey!I didn't love this book. I did not think the characte..."
☝️
Stacey wrote: "ClaraBelle wrote: "Denise wrote: "One thing I wanted to add about a character , Margeaux [spoilers removed]"Loved how Margeaux’s struggle with polio was included as it was so poignant for that ti..."
Yes you could tell that and I loved it
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Thank you for sharing the review you wrote.
It is beautifully written, and I agree with some of the points you make, especially Margeaux's polio..
In my opinion based on the responses I wrote to Denise, I felt the subject of anti-semitism as a whole, encompassed the book, leaving little room for the "intermarriage/relationships" genre to be the larger piece we were looking for.
Stacey wrote: "Denise wrote: "I finally started the book, but I'm reading 3 other books at the same time, so it won't be in a day:)Right now the only thing I have to say is it is set in the neighborhood where I..."
Yes, I live in Patricia's neighborhood. It is a rental building so not so la-de-dah as most, iI s a fully integrated building so I can stand to live here. Eleanor's building is not far both our buildings are part of Yorkville, Upper East Side. I haven't read enough of the book yet to know how she describes it but initially it is right on wit the class differences and other difference very apparent in the 1950s. There are a lot of Jews on the Upper East Side now including me.
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I didn't love this book. I did not think the characte..."
Amy- I just read your review...after- I responded to Susan.
I felt there was more anti-semitism than not, which makes me agree with you there was not enough room to discuss intermarriage.
Stacey, thank you for the kind comments on my review. And thanks to everyone who has, and perhaps still will, posted such thoughtful comments on the book. It’s nice to see a good discussion.
I'm midway through the book and not enjoying it. To me, its a chick lit book which to me means everything is rather facile. I like Margeaux more, she isn't as influenced by her parents as I had thought. There is anti-Semitism yes but what seems stronger is Eleanor's attraction to the Bellamy's world - but is it the Gentile world or is it the well-to-do world? (view spoiler)
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Denise, I'm sorry you are not enjoying the book.
Hopefully next month the book will be much better. To me, chick-lit would something like "How to Dump a Guy in Ten Days" if it were a book. How I came up with that one, I'll never know. :)
I'm not seeing how everything is facile in the book. Regarding the anti-semitism, it wasn't contained or ignored. Patricia has a mannerly way of speaking about it, not the blatant loud comments we know.. Is that the "class" element?
You make a great point about Eleanor's fascination in Bellamy's world. I would have never thought to write that aspect.
It's something she recognizes she wants, but I think...she knew down deep she could never be a part of that world because of her religion..
As I am reading all the comments and responding to most, I am seeing more and more this book's topic speaks to anti-semitism not intermarriage.
Maybe we will try this subject again at some point.
Stacey wrote: "Denise wrote: "I'm midway through the book and not enjoying it. To me, its a chick lit book which to me means everything is rather facile. I like Margeaux more, she isn't as influenced by her paren..."It's a chick lit book like Kristin Hannah's books, though I've only read one which I thought wasn't good but a big hit, The Nightingale - she doesn't do much research and there was so much wrong with the history. By facile I mean the things that happen are superficial or oversimplified - there just isn't any depth to the characters or to the meaning of what happens IMHO. So I finished the book but my opinion hasn't changed. I'm not sure what I think of the end because I don't know enough about Eleanor. She is not a religious Jew, we don't know if its the Gentile world she is attracted to or the well-to-do lifestyle she is attracted to. I think its the latter. I think it could be the very same story with a rich Jewish family instead of the Bellamy's - its about class differences more than religious differences.
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You are welcome. !
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Has anyone by chance read this book and moderators choice of
"Enemies...A" ? Or even another one of the nominations?
Im curious about the difference in the two regarding the focus on intermarriage/relationships..
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i hadnt started to read it, but am planning on doing it soon...
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Wonderful, and thank you for responding.
I was with Denise on this one. That it felt more like class differences than anti-semitic ones. That the theme of anti-semitism didn't really feel huge to me. Could have easily been a different worlds type of thing. The Jewish part felt irrelevant in fact.I have Enemies; A Love Story in my car. But I have six or seven books ahead of it. It will come soon though. Some of those I will whip through.
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Amy, thank you for the input - no problem, take your time reading.
I'm taking the opposite side on this one, and I think I may be the only one-
I do recognize what you both see in the class vs. religion.
The part where Patricia's brother tells Eleanor why he cant marry her; to me, is attributed mostly to anti-semitism, not to say the other reason is he wouldn't marrying down.
I just started reading this (I'm about a third of the way through). Very easy reading and I want to see where it is going. Since I don't want to be spoiled, I will check back later. Happy Chanukah to everyone.
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Thank you for the comment. Let us know what you think.
Happy Chanukah to you!!
Judith, crazy question (if you see this!) Are you Phillip's other cousin? I thought I recognized the name. Like are we Mishbucha? If I see you on FB I will ask you there. How funny if true. I am a huge reader, and would love to connect with you on books. By the way, Uncle David is doing really well. I just saw him on a Zoom for my mother's 80th birthday. I'm Lois's niece.
I just finished this book. It started out with a bang, but lost steam as I continued reading. I thought it was too cliche. I got a feel for Eleanor and Margaux, but the other characters were too flat. What did Eleanor see in Tom? The anti-Semitism was not really a main theme, other than making a point that Eleanor had to change her name from Moskowitz to Moss to get a job. Neither she nor her mother were especially observant, however, Eleanor had observed some of the rituals when her father was alive. She had no problems eating shellfish and lobster in the beginning, but later the point was made when treyfe was served at a party. It was a fast and easy read, but will soon be forgotten.
Hahtoolah wrote: "I just finished this book. It started out with a bang, but lost steam as I continued reading. I thought it was too cliche. I got a feel for Eleanor and Margaux, but the other characters were too fl..."Exactly 😒
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It certainly did not have anything to do with the topic of intermarriage/relationships.
I agree with you and ClaraBelle re your assessment of this book.
In thinking about it right now, after reading your review , it almost felt the second half wasn't part of the original storyline.
Cant go into detail due to the fact many aren't finished reading it.
I know me- I don't want to chance spoiling it.
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I'm concerned the judgment will discourage readership, in other words, kind of a spoiler in itself.
Not that people should have to dissemble about disappointment. But ... hmm, kind of at a loss b/c haven't read it myself. I remember previously talking about how on Goodreads, favorable comments will cluster on a positive review of a particular book while unfavorable ones cluster on a negative review. Kind of like Fox News and MSNBC! 😝 Is it possible we here in this book club could figure out a better way??? I mean, there are some readers who enjoyed this, & don't want to run them off. Don't want a slap in the face for the nominator or voters!
Help! 😱
I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve had that similar feeling when I have to review an ARC, which is meant to create buzz for a book, and I feel for the author because I don’t want to discourage people from reading it. But that my review had some shred of honesty and feedback to it, while acknowledging others might be called to it. That it’s just one opinion. I’m even going to go out on a limb and say that I think Stacy has told me she thinks I do that very well. That said, not all books are going to be winners with the readership. And I do think even some folks who might still want to read it will do so, even separate from our comments. But those that have have really felt like they’ve gotten some support for their point of view. I also think we’re not being unfair to the authors unless they’re a member of our group. So I actually think it’s not something to worry about personally. Those who will want to read it will read it regardless of other peoples opinions.
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Nice limb, Amy. :)
Its true- I did say that.
We're again going with a single discussion, so be mindful about spoilers. You can use the Goodreads "spoiler" brackets from "some html is ok"
It's okay to jump right in with your thoughts about this book. Hope it's a good one!