Afternoon Tea and Scones with the Lovely Ladies discussion
This topic is about
The Return of the Soldier
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Nov 2020 buddyread: Return of the Soldier by Rebecca West
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Nidhi, I' m not surprised, I've found lighter books have suited me much better for the most part.
Nidhi wrote: One of the all women ‘s group of which I am a member is currently reading The Fountain Overflows . There are mixed reactions about complex characters, I opted for this book because it was shorter. This year I couldn’t finish even a single hefty classic, and couldn’t concentrate on poetry.☹️I've not read a lot of poetry historically, I don't know why. I have poets and books of poetry on my shelves. I tried to read a book of poems mentioned in one of our group reads lately, but couldn't concentrate on it at all. It was just words that sometimes rhymed.
I have noticed my concentration level comes and goes lately. My circumstances with working at home are different now though, so its hard to say if its cause or effect. And I also have a harder time with longer books lately too. I'm hoping its just the events of the past year. But technology and a faster society pushes us to distraction as well. And I do it to myself, I've got a list of group reads and a stack of books staring me in the face, not to mention the ones glaring at me from my bookshelf and when I'm faced with a book of poetry to be lingered on or a long book that needs full concentration...reading almost becomes a chore until I give myself permission to put those aside and just grab the quickie read.
Tania wrote: Tania (friend)1802 books | 169 friends
see comment historyI loved The Fountain Overflows, one of my favourite books. I also loved This Real Night and have, but haven't yet read Cousin Rosamund. I want to read it but I'm a bit reluctant as I don't think she finished it, but I think it has been finished off by someone else. I need to just read it.
I beleive you are right about the last book. There is a 3 pack ebook on Amazon I wanted to get The Saga of the Century: The Fountain Overflows, This Real Night, and Cousin Rosamund but a reviewer indicated the ebook does not include an explanation of the end.. "I love these books. But I wish the last volume had included, as the hardcover does, an explanation that West did not finish the trilogy before she died, and the notes explicating what she had intended to happen. It’s no wonder that many people reading these books think they end abruptly. They do, she did not finish. But if you get the hardcover, you can find out what was supposed to happen."
Brenda wrote: " Nidhi wrote: One of the all women ‘s group of which I am a member is currently reading The Fountain Overflows . There are mixed reactions about complex characters, I opted for this book because it..."You have explained it very accurately Brenda , I am new to all this, but i must say group reads are relief , i like to read what others enjoying. GR got me through quarantine period.
I hope next year will be much better that this.
This whole discussion influenced me to buy a copy of the book. I found (a bit shabby but I’d be too if I was over 100 years old) a 1918 edition of it and was sold on the artwork too. I want to do a reread and see what else I missed just listening on audio. I’d say you ladies are a bad influence for the wallet, but I had so much fun discussing this one!!
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Yes and the smell of old books.... and of library. 😊
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Jess wrote: I want to do a reread and see what else I missed just listening on audio. I’d say you ladies are a bad influence for the wallet, but I had so much fun discussing this one!!I’ve found I’ve an ebook, and on holiday next week so I’m going to try and read it again (as opposed to listening).
Tania, I love to collect old vintage books too. I try to find them at good deals and every now and then splurge. It just adds a bit of specialness while reading when you can do it while holding a piece of history in hand. I love when I find ones with inscriptions Nidhi, I agree! I love the smell of an old book. There’s a used bookshop about 45 min from me. It’s five stories and used to be a glove factory. It’s backed floor to ceiling with shelves of old books and it smells just divine walking in.
Brenda, I’m so curious what you might pick up on in the book on a reread. Looking forward to your thoughts!
Jess, were you speaking of the John King bookshop? I’ve not been there for years. I used to go with a friend and we’d go to lunch at a French cafe in cork town which is sadly closed. Was always a perfect day!
Brenda, Yes! I got to go once this summer and it was a quick trip. But so heavenly... even with our masks. Before Covid, we went more frequently and would have lunch at Mudgies. I really really miss being able to do that. But it was nice to see the familiar employee faces this summer.
Such a wonderful place! My local library is having a bag sale at their used depot for $10 this Saturday so I might pop in. My problem is, I never read the books on my shelf. And I seem to get a collective "Hrmph!" from them all. :(( And since you've told me of MelCat and I can get all kinds of old goodies through interlibrary loans... oh the JOY!!!
The stack on books in my queue at the moment is one ebook that I own and the rest are library loans. As much as I also love owning old books, I find I have to trick myself into reading them by getting them elsewhere. LOL
Oh yes, I too have a problem with old books piling up on the shelves that I keep meaning to get to reading. I have to place a Melcat order myself for a few hard to find older copies. Especially if we end of getting locked down more strictly, it would be nice to have all the library books on hand. Even though I just mentioned all the other books piling up on the shelves. 🤦🏻♀️
Let us know what books you get from the sale! That sounds like a lot of fun.
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I do the same with my books; once I've read group reads, I try to read at least 2 from my collection each month, but I often fail. Also, I'm far more likely to pick one I'll want to keep than one I'll pass on to free up space for more books.
Looking forward to hearing what you get from your library sale.
I wasn’t able to get any books. With the restrictions here stricter again, our library has gone back to curbside only and their used book store closed until further notice. As my physical shelves are clearly neglected- perhaps it was for the best anyway. 🤦🏻♀️😉
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Yes, in my state at least. From Wednesday on 3 weeks, and I’m sure it will be revisited. Mainly it’s closed restaurants and bars to takeaway only, gatherings of less than 10 and 2 household max. It’s surging here now as well and with a holiday on Thursday it was probably, unfortunately, timely.But yes, I think I’m going to add an extra incentive in our 2021 project for myself to read books off my shelves when possible. What a Catch-22! Lol. I’ve such good books to read, but then part of me inside is screaming at all the books I may be missing out on. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🙄😂
Each time I read this I feel like it’s the first time and I have different observations. I am glad for physically reading it as I am devouring the beautifully rich descriptions. It seems like every sentence is full of them. But it doesn’t weigh the story down at all, it just seems to open it up more.It was timely the topic of unreliable narrator came up and Tania mentioned Jenny, as I’d had a similar thought, in that really we’re only seeing this through her eyes.
And it was also mentioned previously here Jenny’s “crush” on Chris, and I felt like it was an undercurrent- she was so involved with Chris & Kitty’s lives - maybe to bury this from herself, and everyone. But then Chris is telling Jenny about meeting Margaret (Kitty had gone to bed) and Kitty thinks to herself “...but I, too, have watched people I loved in the dusk, and I know what he meant.”
Oh, Jenny! Tsk. Tsk.
This time I’m seeing Jenny in a new light. She’s at Margaret’s to pick her up and is looking around thinking “All her life long Margaret, who in her time had partaken of the supreme dignity of a requited love, had lived with men who wore carpet slippers in the house.”It just really feels like there is something bubbling under the surface in Jenny. We keep getting these almost pot-shots of this unrequited and love from afar. Does Jenny feel undignified because of her circumstances?
Why is she there tho? I don’t recall it saying. I’m on the third reading, god help me if I missed it. Lol. Did she just come because Chris was called up? Or has she been there? That’s what it feels like. But then why? Why is a spinster living with her cousin and his wife? Unless maybe she is weirdly obsessed with him? I just really get that feeling off and on with this reading. That she’s almost creepy at times.
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Part of me is picturing Bette Davis in the roll of Jenny. And in the end she snaps. 😈 😆
I didn’t realise her parents had died. I’d read it enough too you’d think.I guess someone has to take care of the poor spinster relation.
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I guess someone has to take care of the poor spinster relation."
I wasn't very succinct. It doesn't say they did, I just mean if they had this is likely where she'd end up. I assume they probably have, which is why Jenny is living with Chris, but perhaps Kitty wanted help with running the house; she may be there as a companion, or housekeeper.
With Chris going to war I could absolutely understand it. Like I said tho, I’m just getting a weird vibe from Jenny this read. Like she’s planting herself to be of upmost service to Chris, being the perfect friend and companion and cousin, etc.
I agree there is something off with Jenny, Brenda. I think what made me pause and think “Hmmm” about her was when she did such a quick turnaround and began supporting Margaret so quickly. Even calling her a friend. It just felt too quick of a change of heart to be fully genuine? I think you might be onto something with her positioning herself.
Now I wonder on the planting herself. Do you think originally planted herself close to Kitty at first because as Chris’s wife she’s kind of the gatekeeper to him? Then when she sees the importance Margaret has to Chris, she makes a shift towards Margaret so she can always be in that inner circle with Chris? Yet, still maintaining cordial relations with Kitty... just in case.
I don’t know.... every read is revealing something else to me. And it’s really hurting my feeble little brain anymore! 😂😂There are just these subtleties and little zingers I’m coming upon that makes me think twice about Jenny. She’s devoted to Kitty, but is it really only for Chris? Because she moves on easily to Margaret at his begging.
And remember when Chris first comes home and I think he said he wanted to see Margaret, and Kitty says sure. Then she turns to Jenny and under her breath is venting. Jenny starts shaking her to shush her. Chris has to tell Jenny to stop. And Jenny is so worried about how Chris sees her now.
Maybe I was trying to see Kitty and Chris’s relationship and Jenny was kind of on the side as just the narrator and cousin. Although how true to life may that be...Jenny is just on the side as the cousin. So maybe I didn’t pick up on Jenny’s little comments or thoughts. Or maybe I’m putting too much into them or twisting the meaning.
There are so many ways to look at this. If someone would miraculously find the same story, written by West, 2 other versions- one where Chris is the narrator and one with Kitty, that would be fabulous. Perhaps that might shed some light??? 😉
I do apologize to anyone still reading as I haven’t used spoiler tags or marked anything. 😞
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It seems maybe?I wonder if that’s why she talks each of them up, but her thoughts are sometimes a different story?
That’s why I couldn’t get a handle on Kitty I think. Jenny talks so highly of her, but when we’re in a conversation with Kitty and Jenny, Kitty seems rather witchy at times, which was such a contrast.
Hello Ladies.I've only just finished this today and have gone through your pertinent comments. I'm not sure how much novelty I have to add, but I wish to say a few things about Kitty.
Someone here pointed out (Brenda, I believe, in an early comment) that Kitty is the product of her time period and to me, this is the most true.
The reality of the matter is that I felt sorry for every character in this novel, because they are all a sad product of their time.
If the action takes place during WW1, then Kitty is genuinely one generation away from the stuffy Victorian way of life, which meant one had to hide one's feelings, especially the negative ones, as to not "embarrass themselves", something that was seen as unforgiving in society.
I believe, yes Kitty is quite vain and shallow, but she was made so, she was made to believe this is how a Real Woman ought behave. It is no surprise that she is drying her hair in the "best room in the house" but let's do remember that she could have made this room into her bedroom from the first day she moved in. But she didn't, the room was a nursery, she did give the best room to her child, which I doubt would have happened had this been a Victorian novel. I believe she now wants the room converted into something else not necessarily out of vanity, but out of pain: she fails at being the Real Woman society dictates she must be, she is not a mother and she does not wish to be reminded of this on a daily basis. Nor does she wish to lock up the door forever and let the dust gather, she simply wishes to move on. This is why she does not mention the child to the doctor, I do not believe she found it irrelevant, I believe she felt ashamed as a woman and was doing what she was taught: "keep the family honour, never speak of problems with anyone".
Is this not something we do today as well? Women feel compelled to not say they are pregnant until the 3d month, just in case they lose the pregnancy and find themselves having to explain this to society. And how does society usually view such things? With pity. What woman wants to be pitied for not being "woman enough to have a child?". Perhaps I am exaggerating the matter a bit, but all my friends with children look at me with pity for not having one. No one can compute that I don't want one. No one can compute that a man and a woman in a relationship is also a True Family.
Regarding the rings she wears on her right hand and all the diamonds, yes, I do agree there is vanity there but I believe this stems from her own massive lack of confidence. I say this because that moment reminded me of... myself. I do admit, I love jewellery, rings in particular and when I am to do something that scares me (such as going to hospital), I too now put on 4 of my favourite rings on my left hand (the only one available lol) as I feel this gives me a strange sense of confidence and courage. It is not a testament of Wealth, but if some men carry weapons to feel safe, I too carry my rings as protection, as they were either given to me by my loved one or have been bought by myself to mark an achievement (first decent salary in London). They are there to protect me and to remind me that I am loved. And this is what Kitty was trying to do as well: she was showing Chris proof of how much he loves her, the only palpable proof she was Taught she has: the more expensive the jewel, the more the man appreciates his wife. Same reason why she left the left hand bare, apart from her wedding ring: it is her way of screaming into his face that she is his choice, his wife.
Jenny... I don't know, I am suspicious of her. I agree with Tania's last comment that she might be living vicariously through Kitty and Margaret. She seems a bit of a third wheel in Kitty and Chris's marriage, the spinster cousin with nowhere else to go and somehow I felt she needn't be SO upset that Chris sees her as old. Unless she feels for Chris a little more than she ought to.
I assume her bonding with Margaret was seen by Kitty as a betrayal and abandonment and perhaps she is not wrong. Out of the 3 women in Chris's life, it is only Kitty he does not remember, nor does he seem willing to get to know her once again. Out of these 3 women, it is Kitty who could tell him best who he is, but he doesn't care, he wishes to be 20 again on Monkey Island with Margaret and this is understandable as it predates the loss of his child, the horrors of the front and old age.
But where does that leave Kitty, the wife? Alone, clutching a dog for warmth, comfort, affection and support whilst her husband is having picnics with his ex in their own garden. I find this supremely unfair to her.
Yes, her last line is definitely a massive blunder and proof of her shallow character, but the reality of the matter is that all she wants is her husband back, even if that means sending him back to the front. At least he is, once again, hers. I can't judge her too harshly for it. I feel sorry for her.
Wonderful comments May! I’m probably saying it again, but I’m so glad Tracey chose to read this, it’s really had some great discussion.
I have to thank the group again (and Brenda !) for making me discover this novella - it's still on my mind even if finished it weeks ago...
I’ve just watched the movie. They took the softness and greyness of the book away. Things weren’t left as much for the veiwer to deduce, you are flat out told.
They changed the events with Margaret and her husband and now Margaret’s husband has suspicions, where in the book he was innocent of her involvement. I didn’t care for what they did to her relationship with Chris either. They gave it more of a slant than I’d gotten from the book.
Kitty also put this big party together right after he’s come home which I thought very strange for someone in his state, to subject him to that.
Kitty (played by Julie Christie) is made to be just nasty. I don’t think I’ve seen her in anything but Zhivago.
Jenny is played by Ann Margaret. I’m not sure of that casting, however I was never a fan of her.
I do like watching period pieces related to a book though, as I can now better put the characters in their element.
Part of me wanted to stop watching after the first little bit, but I finished. I can’t say having read the book that I liked the movie as a whole unfortunately.
Thanks for the warning, I'll just avoid it. I usually watch adaptations before I read the novels, simply because when I do it the other way, I'm often disappointed, the novels are more profound, you imagine what people look like. When it's adapted, I sometimes feel the director wants to leave its imprint on the adaptation and everything goes wrong - and now, I'm thinking Poirot with John Malkovitch (huge, huge disappointment).
Afternoon Tea and Scones with the Lovely Ladies
Books mentioned in this topic
The Saga of the Century Trilogy: The Fountain Overflows, This Real Night, and Cousin Rosamund (other topics)The Fountain Overflows (other topics)
THIS REAL NIGHT (other topics)
Cousin Rosamund (other topics)
It’s definitely a year to be forgiving with ourselves on reading stats and choices. I wish I could love poetry but struggle with most of it. There are some poets and poems I like but overall, it’s a genre that I have to really apply myself to enjoy.