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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2020 Booker Shortlist Discussion
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Douglas Stuart
As You Were by Elaine Feeney ..."
This was a slightly odd book I felt - I know Neil was not taken with the dialogue (and I can understand why) and its a very uneven book - overall though I enjoyed it and admired its ambition and variety.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I have separated the six into two groups: those I would be happy to read twice (Burnt Sugar, This Mournable Body, Real Life) and those I would hate to have to read twice (Shuggie Bain, The Shadow King, The New Wilderness.)
But which will the judges find that three reads is too many?
Also, I'm very excited that Obama is participating in the Booker Prize celebrations on Thursday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXY6...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXY6..."
Pumpkin wants Burnt Sugar, as does Sebastian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXY6..."
Pumpkin wants Burnt Sugar, as does Sebastian."
Maybe cats know something we don't

A large part of the reason for the re-read was that, other than Shadow King, I read the other 5 of the shortlist electronically first time around which is not my preference (but 4 were ARCs and Real Life came out earlier in Kindle version). I tend to enjoy books more when I read them in paper.
Like Ang I could not face re-reading New Wilderness and don't think I will even if it wins. I was also a little reluctant to re-read Shadow King, firstly as I already read in paper and secondly as ( much as I admired what it was doing and like the author) I found it slow going first time.
Not sure the second read changed my views on any of the 3-4 books - if anything it reinforced them and reconfirmed my prejudices on each.

It a case of being disappointed about the titles that didn’t make it more than being disappointed with the titles that did make it, with the glaring exception of New Wilderness and, from what you’ve all said, Real Life, and not Apeirogon or TMATL.

I thought most of the books were pretty good, but I can't say they warmed me to modern literary fiction much. When I started reading the longlist back in the summer I was struck by how overwhelmingly depressing everything I picked up was. I don't shy from books with dark themes, but I do usually like it to be leavened with a bit of hope, a bit of humour, or a bit of intellectual playfulness at some point. The Booker nominees I've read have mostly stood out as being exceptionally heavy.
My favourite is Shuggie Bain. While it was a sad story, it was the only one that seemed to treat its characters as having potential for being sublime and ridiculous and dignified, as well as tragic and flawed. I also think that, despite the author being a white man, it represents diversity in terms of social class that we don't often see, so I hope it wins (but expect it won't).

I haven't had much to say this Booker season, as I've read only a few selected novels. I also feel like maybe it's a mistake to bring this up. Sorry in advance.
This isn't meant as an attack against anyone in particular, but I do find it disappointing and alarming how many people have mentioned that Shuggie Bain is the most deserving winner, but probably won't be selected because its author is a white man. This has been repeatedly mentioned here, and I find it insulting, misguided and unfortunate. Thank you.

I haven't had much to say this Booker season, as I've read only a few selected novels. I also feel like maybe it's a mistake to bring this up. Sorry in advance.
This isn't meant as an attack a..."
That's fair, and I think I maybe expressed myself badly. I'm more expecting it not to win because my favourites usually don't! Clearly white men still win a lot of (most of?) the prizes.
My point with his being a white man was more that despite that I still think he's one of the more diverse voices on the longlist, having come from, it seems, quite a disadvantaged background. But yes, it was bad of me to link those sentences together and make it sound like I think there's some kind of conspiracy.

I haven't had much to say this Booker season, as I've read only a few selected novels. I also feel like maybe it's a mistake to bring this up. Sorry in advance.
This isn't meant as an attack a..."
Hi Eric & Emily,
As Eric said, I don't think it's just been you, Emily, alone who expressed this type of thinking. It's been a consistent theme for more than just this Booker season. Similar sentiment has come up for the last couple of seasons and also come up in other threads, and I fear I may have been careless in expressing thoughts about how many awards are chosen myself.
None of us should assume that people have strikes against them or, in reverse, nobody is a more probable winner, just because of their race, background, religion, beliefs, etc.
That said, I think the world is changing (hopefully for the better) and the general population, including judges, has started to wake up to some of the old assumptions and preconceptions. Not all of us, myself included, are always so graceful in times of social change. Not all of us have the ready vocabulary or know how to say what we're trying to say.
So I think it's great, Eric, that you brought this up, and also that you said it so gently. We appreciate when members call things like this to our attention, and we will endeavor to do better.
Thanks for being so very decent because I think this is something we all need to learn how to talk about with more clarity and precision.
Have a great day/night/afternoon/etc everyone!


Ella, I agree with all you wrote and just want to point out that we all have work to do, myself more than many others! It's easy to be decent and not be on the attack when I have so much to improve on with this issue myself.



Tsitsi Dangarembga would fit the bill in terms of career longevity.
Anna Burns had also published only 3 novels including the one which won.

It’s hard to warm to any of the characters.
How come the women still have tampons after years of living in the wild?
Stuart writes that his characters are “sat at” rather than “sitting at” which is commonplace, but still crass.
All those windy, bloated sentences and use of the present tense are exhausting.
Narrating in the second person present tense is annoying.
How raw and visceral.

"What to say: Can you believe he wrote the book in only five weeks"
Surely better would have been:
"What not to say: It's obvious he wrote the book in only five weeks"


We didn't set out to tick boxes... we were having to to say goodbye to a lot of books we admired.



Books mentioned in this topic
Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982 (other topics)Dolly Parton Songteller: My Life in Lyrics (other topics)
Real Life (other topics)
The New Wilderness (other topics)
This Mournable Body (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Brandon Taylor (other topics)Diane Cook (other topics)
Tsitsi Dangarembga (other topics)
Avni Doshi (other topics)
Maaza Mengiste (other topics)
More...
Diane Cook
Temporary by Hilary Leichter
Tsitsi Dangarembga
Undoing the Revolution: Comparing Elite Subversion of Peasant Rebellions by Vasabjit Banerjee
Avni Doshi
Luster by Raven Leilani
Maaza Mengiste
Afterlives by Abdulrazak Gurnah
Brandon Taylor
Memorial by Bryan Washington
Douglas Stuart
As You Were by Elaine Feeney