Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence discussion
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Hey there! I was just browsing some groups and I stumbled upon "Do Better" and I'm really glad you decided to take this project to a whole other level.
My recent favourite has to be To Be Taught, If Fortunate not only is it an astounding book but it really made me reflect on my book reading decisions. It made me think surely there are books out there just like this in other genres? I've also mostly avoided horror purely because of sexual violence prevalent but now I can explore the bookshelves without fear. I'm excited to start my journey of "doing better" and helping with the bookshelves in any way.
My recent favourite has to be To Be Taught, If Fortunate not only is it an astounding book but it really made me reflect on my book reading decisions. It made me think surely there are books out there just like this in other genres? I've also mostly avoided horror purely because of sexual violence prevalent but now I can explore the bookshelves without fear. I'm excited to start my journey of "doing better" and helping with the bookshelves in any way.
Mod
I wanted to help create a public list that would eventually *fingers crossed* appear in Google searches. So this is my little side project, we'll see if it gains any interest.
I've been keyword searching GR reviews to identify content warnings. I've erred in the side of caution, so I really hope all of the titles I've added so far, truly fit the theme of the group.
Beige wrote: "Hey! Fancy seeing you here!! You're the very first member. Thank you for joining! 😀
I wanted to help create a public list that would eventually *fingers crossed* appear in Google searches. So this..."
Ah what a lovely mission and I'm sure soon enough it will :) and it is my pleasure. I'm sure the books do as I trust you are responsible and its great we always have the option of removing if any new information is discovered once reading it.
I wanted to help create a public list that would eventually *fingers crossed* appear in Google searches. So this..."
Ah what a lovely mission and I'm sure soon enough it will :) and it is my pleasure. I'm sure the books do as I trust you are responsible and its great we always have the option of removing if any new information is discovered once reading it.
Hi there! I couldn't resist joining Beige's new project 😁
Mod
Hello! *waves*
I'm pleasantly surprised to report that my most recent reads all have been free of sexual violence, and I can't honestly remember the last time such a happy occurrence happened.
I feel a bit silly sharing the titles since... err... we've read the together? haha! but here they are:
All the Birds in the Sky
The Luminous Dead
Gideon the Ninth
All different in genre and tone, all narrating very different stories: writing enjoyable SFF without sexual violence is possible after all, imagine that.
Elena C. wrote: "(It took me a super awkward amount of time to figure out where the "join" button was 😂)
Hello! *waves*
I'm pleasantly surprised to report that my most recent reads all have been free of sexual vi..."
I didn't realise Gideon the Ninth and the Luminious Dead made the do better requirements all the more reason to read them!
Hello! *waves*
I'm pleasantly surprised to report that my most recent reads all have been free of sexual vi..."
I didn't realise Gideon the Ninth and the Luminious Dead made the do better requirements all the more reason to read them!
Mod
There is a newish book prize: "The award for a thriller in which no woman is beaten, st..."
Corinne, great to see you here too. Thank you for joining AND for the links! I only recently heard of this prize, it's important because there seems to be woefully little resources for this subject in any genre. The controversy it stirred up when it first launched was a prime example of how much more we all need to think about this subject....
https://slate.com/culture/2019/07/sta...
Mod
Hear hear! 🙌
Mod
Yeah, that... sigh!
I, unfortunately, discovered that one of the staunch prize nominees (The Godmother) does break the criteria which is why I think having feedback is really important but it is still an effort nonetheless.
Mod
YES. For example, Sarah Gailey mentions Jemisin's The Fifth Season as an instance of SFF without sexual violence, but two of the MCs are (view spoiler), so it really wouldn't be one of the first rec to cross my mind.
Mod
That's a good point you raise. In researching so far, I've seen a lot of different reactions to content -- 99% of the time I'm erring on the side of the most sensitive readers.
But my research does have risk of error, what if a book hasn't been reviewed by a sensitive reader yet? It IS possible that our shelves currently contain problematic content, but I'm hoping our future members understand our goal of discussing and refining the list based on their feedback.
I want it clear that all titles are up for debate/removal 😀
I remember reading that today about The Fifth Season luckily I checked someone's blog just to make sure (as I haven't read it) but that's quite shocking to hear it was a main point. Thanks for your clarification Beige I think it's important we emphasise it and I'm thankful for blogs that post trigger/content warnings for every review if I don't find anything on Goodreads but unfortunately, that isn't always the case and errors can still occur.
Mod
I thought that too! And didn't include that in our list.
One point I wanted feedback on was domestic violence. Some reviews call this out in their content warnings seperate from sexual assault and consent issues. While I didn't think it possible to create a large list without any violence at all, I was thinking maybe we should exclude domestic violence.
Beige wrote: "Elena C. wrote: "YES. For example, Sarah Gailey mentions Jemisin's The Fifth Season..."
I thought that too! And didn't include that in our list.
One point I wanted feedback on was..."
I agree with your point, I also avoided adding The Night Circus because of the parental abuse
I thought that too! And didn't include that in our list.
One point I wanted feedback on was..."
I agree with your point, I also avoided adding The Night Circus because of the parental abuse
Mod
Good point. I really struggled with that one too, but I HAVE been adding titles with child abuse warnings, that aren't called out as sexual/pedophilia. But I'm open to changing that...here is what I found....
With sexual violence there are plenty of books where it happens in the present on screen, in the present offscreen and where it happened many years prior, with very little detail provided. When called out in reviews, I've been excluding ALL of these.
Some form of child abuse/neglect, so far, appears fairly common in SFF. However, more often than not, it seems to be something the character experienced in the past and there aren't many details. Not all reviewers provide details, so it would be very difficult to seperate stories with abuse vs. stories with neglect. For example, Gideon the Ninth wouldn't make this list if we enforced this as equally as sexual assault.
I recognize there isn't going to be a perfect place to draw the line, but I'm open to discussing where we place it to start ☺️ Night Circus is currently on the list, should it be?
Beige wrote: "Christina wrote: "I agree with your point, I also avoided adding The Night Circus because of the parental abuse..."
Good point. I really struggled with that one too, but I HAVE been adding titles ..."
Hmm I see your point it is quite prevalent in SFF I was only cautious because I wasn't sure if I should include it or not I wouldn't say its sexual assault from memory, the night circus is a pretty magical book and, I don't think anything consent related occurs. I did read it last year and we were given (view spoiler)
Good point. I really struggled with that one too, but I HAVE been adding titles ..."
Hmm I see your point it is quite prevalent in SFF I was only cautious because I wasn't sure if I should include it or not I wouldn't say its sexual assault from memory, the night circus is a pretty magical book and, I don't think anything consent related occurs. I did read it last year and we were given (view spoiler)
Wow, what a great idea for a list/group! Love it! I'm trying to think of some titles that we can add, but I want to make sure I'm remembering right. I'll definitely be back with my titles. Are we including male authors?
Kristen wrote: "Wow, what a great idea for a list/group! Love it! I'm trying to think of some titles that we can add, but I want to make sure I'm remembering right. I'll definitely be back with my titles. Are we i..."
Thanks for joining us Kristen and, a good tip is using the search bar in goodreads reviews for any warnings or mentions of sexual violence. Yes, we are including male authors too :)
Thanks for joining us Kristen and, a good tip is using the search bar in goodreads reviews for any warnings or mentions of sexual violence. Yes, we are including male authors too :)
Christina wrote: "Thanks for joining us Kristen and, a good tip is using the search bar in goodreads reviews for any warnings or mentions of sexual violence. Yes, we are including male authors too :)"
Ah, thanks!
Well, hello there!I've come here from the other groups we know each other from because I'm really into the project. I'm looking forward in creating a list with wonderful books without sexual violence.
Hello people,Gretel brought me here by putting her joining here and her introduction on my dashboard and I like this idea of creating a list. I usually make a point of posting content warnings even when I am not doing a full review.
My favourite fantasy book without sexual violence is the Hobbit, because Tolkien was of that generation who did not speak about such things. I see that it has problems, most notably the lack of female characters, but at least sexual violence is not one of them.
Welcome, Eule! And Corinne and Kristen and Gretel too! It's nice to see more people interested in this project and I hope we'll soon have a lot of books to choose from.
Mod
Who do I congratulate for the banner and group profile pic? Because they are awesome and I need to congratulate the person who made/chose them.
Mod
... I was just about to ask the same!!! Thank you, oh mysterious benefactor! The group page looks incredible 😁
Mod
Mod
Christina gets all of the credit, just look at the banner she made us and the images she found to compliment it. So great ❣️❣️❣️
Well, in that case: congratulations, Christina!!
Mod
Forgot to say, I've added The Hobbit to the group bookshelves. It definitely fits our current guidelines. Thank you 😁
Thank you all, it was my pleasure
It's me. Some of you already know me probably too well :P
For those who don't, I'm Samantha. I study sff and animals. 👋
For those who don't, I'm Samantha. I study sff and animals. 👋
Samantha wrote: "It's me. Some of you already know me probably too well :P
For those who don't, I'm Samantha. I study sff and animals. 👋"
Great to see you here Samantha :)
For those who don't, I'm Samantha. I study sff and animals. 👋"
Great to see you here Samantha :)
Hi! Found the group via a shout out on SciFi and Fantasy Book Club what a great resource. This is so prevalent I'm not sure I'd trust my memory but I'll make suggestions as I read.
Mod
Welcome!! Thank you for joining 😁
We've all been a bit surprised by how much we forget and it's one of the reasons we started this group. It's intended to be a longer term project, so comment whenever you can.
The mods also do a bit of research on which books to add and we use our member's bookshelves for inspiration. I hope you don't mind us snooping now and then 😉
Mod
Haha! I appreciate the peek.
I believe this idea spun off from a point you raised in one of our wbtm discussions. So welcome, honoured guest 😉
Do you want to know about books that have triggers? This would I think cut down on the mods work at some point.For instance Venus of Dreams a 500 + page book is I think considered a classic by female author and has dubious consent and rape.
Mod
As we're a very new group, we've been mulling this over. Here are our thoughts so far...
Other websites and many GR reviews list most/all of the content warnings for each book. We wanted to offer something different, an easy to browse list of books free of one particular trigger.
However, we do want to compile all of the books that are suggested to us and excluded, if our research suggests they don't meet the group guidelines. Which, with our spotty memories, is bound to happen 😉 As you say, this makes it easier for mods to have this info. Our plan is to do a weekly/monthly recap which is searchable within the group discussion search. Here is our first one...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Beige wrote: "Silvana wrote: "*peeking in*"Haha! I appreciate the peek.
I believe this idea spun off from a point you raised in one of our wbtm discussions. So welcome, honoured guest 😉"
Haha! The temptation is just too great! I am probably also going to add a personal shelf for this. Let's see if I am disciplined enough with the tagging.
I forgot to introduce myself! My name is Mark and I'm from the U.S. (New York, specifically). I've loved the fantasy and horror genres for many years, and have recently started getting into science fiction. I'm also at a point where I'm getting fed up with sexual violence being so common in these genres, often used as an "edgy" plot device. I think a group such as this one is very important. If I had to pick a favorite book which (I think?) has no sexual violence, it would be The Tombs of Atuan. I remember so many emotional moments/quotes from that book.
Mod
Oh, what a great idea! It will prompt me to think about it and anyone browsing your shelves can see it too.
Mod
Thanks, Mark! I didn't introduce myself either. Ha!
Mod
I'm Beige (aka Joanne) and I'm from Canada. I'm excited to be a part of this project and to see what becomes of it.
I'm a former bookseller and now my hobbies include reading, organizing books, researching booklists and I guess now I can add starting book groups to my list. And if you join our other book groups you'll quickly learn, I have a thing for animals photoshopped in outer space.
My most recent fav - without sexual violence - is Becky Chambers novella, To Be Taught, If Fortunate
Just heard about this group, big fan of the idea! Read a lot of sff, and have been... not quite astonished but definitely my eyes have been opened as to how hard it is to guarantee a book fits the criteria. But I have a couple I might throw in the other thread
Mod
Thanks for joining Clare 😁
Agreed, very eye opening. As the group is new we're still learning of the many challenges. We aim (and hope) that the group proves to be a reliable resource for the majority of those concerned.
I guess I should introduce myself as well. I'm Silvana from Indonesia. My pronoun is she/her. I read quite a lot of SFF for the last six or seven years which is My current and future reading goals would be to read more diverse books from various countries and background, and also looking for books like solarpunk/hopepunk that actually excites me and of course, free of sexual violence and hopefully, body positive as well. I used to be a fan of grimdark fantasy but I think I grew out of it, mostly. My current obsessions are online conventions and Chinese wuxia drama at Netflix. Nice to meet you all here!
Mod
How I imagine all of your free time....
(view spoiler)
Beige wrote: "Silvana wrote: "I guess I should introduce myself as well. I'm Silvana from Indonesia. My pronoun is she/her. I read quite a lot of SFF for the last six or seven years which is probably caused by t..."make it bigger so I could lie down and add more pillows! ;)
Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence
Books mentioned in this topic
The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (other topics)In the Vanishers’ Palace (other topics)
Ecotopia (other topics)
To Be Taught, If Fortunate (other topics)
The Tombs of Atuan (other topics)
More...
WELCOME!!!!
Thanks for joining our project! We aren't a typical book club that reads together. We are collaborating to build an adult SFF/H database - free from sexual violence and outdated views.
To support the project, all you need to do is drop by (monthly, if possible) and share any of your recent reads that you think might fit our guidelines. Don't stress about suggesting something that doesn't 100% fit, we all view content differently and we do not judge. Moderators research GR reviews to validate every recommendation's suitability.
In this thread:
Pop by and say hello! If you like, tell us a bit about yourself, maybe share your favourite Scifi, Fantasy or Horror book that does not contain sexual violence.
Or if you have any questions about the group, not featured in our FAQ, ask away ☺️