A Storm of Swords (A Song of Ice and Fire #3)

[Trisha]

This thread is to discuss A Storm of Swords, the third book in the A Song of Ice and Fire Series by George R.R. Martin.

Pages: 1177 pages

Length: 2 Months (September & October)

Participants: Ruthie, Trisha.

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.


Happy Buddy Reading!

[Trisha]

Ruthie, hey! When are you planning to start this? I’ll be reading this book real slow, like a chapter a day. Thankful that we signed up for two months! 🤓

[Ruthie]

I'll only have it from the library for 20 days so I'll have to do it faster than that, unfortunately. I think I'll try to start on Sept 1st though and read it as slow as I can like you so we can discuss at the same time. But I guess I'll have to do a few chapters a day instead of just one.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

This is my favorite book in the series. I have a bunch of notes on this book on my ipad. Maybe I'll get it back from my son and post some!

[Trisha]

Ruthie wrote: "I'll only have it from the library for 20 days so I'll have to do it faster than that, unfortunately. I think I'll try to start on Sept 1st though and read it as slow as I can like you so we can di..."

That’s okay! You can finish reading in your planned 20 days, I’ll take my own sweet time but would keep talking to you about the book through the 2 months. Don’t ghost me, lol!

[Trisha]

SarahKat wrote: "This is my favorite book in the series. I have a bunch of notes on this book on my ipad. Maybe I'll get it back from my son and post some!"

That would be great, SarahKat! I’ll looking forward to your notes. :)

[Ruthie]

I’ll keep checking for both of your notes and I’ll post as I read too!

[Serena]

@SarahKat this was my favorite book in the series as well! It also holds a hallowed place in my personal library as one of the few books that made me cry while reading. George R. R. Martin does not play around! Hope y’all don’t mind me popping in to see your thoughts!

[Trisha]

I started this today and currently about 10% in; I’ve the mass paperwork copy with 1177 pages.

Some thoughts: (view spoiler)[

🐟 The first hint of Lisa’s per-marriage affair and abortion. Since Catelyn didn’t know of this affair, this would have happened after she left for Winterfell. And from what I remember or have assumed, Baelish would have done this only to take revenge with Lord Tully.

🐺 Another reference to Arya’s wolf-dreams. This time, she is preying on humans. Is she warging in Nymeria? I don’t remember the theories related to Arya’s warging abilities and I’d rather wait to see what comes along.

🦁 Tywin’s hatred towards Tyrion is sickening. We can’t be sure at this stage if he really hates his son for being responsible for his mother’s death, or because Tyrion is actually not his blood. Remember the Targaryen heritage theories we have already discussed in the buddy read of book #2.

🌹 The Queen of Thorns is here! Loved her so much in the show, and she is just as powerful in the book as in the show. In the book, she has three grandsons, while in the TV show, I think there was just one, Loras. She has asked Sansa to marry her crippled grandson Willas, again very different from the TV show, where Sansa was supposed to marry Loras. Also, was there a reference to Renly and Loras’s affair in the second book? I don’t seem to remember.

🐎 Jon met Mance Rayder - King beyond the wall. Mance made an interesting revelation which I didn’t know of. He told that he visited Winterfell when Robert Baratheon had come to offer Ned Stark the role of his Hand. Did this happen in the show Mance is a terrific person though, daring and rebellious.

🐲 Jorah kissed Daenerys without her consent, oh dear God! I’m so grossed out now! This is obviously not the first time when a woman has been assaulted, but Jorah doing such a thing breaks my heart! When Daenerys calls him out for disrespecting her, all he says is, “I should not have waited so long...You were made to be kissed, often and well.” Wtf! And then he proposed to her. Worst proposal ever? (hide spoiler)]

Ruthie, when is your hold coming off?

Serena, please feel free to see our thoughts and share yours as well.

[Ruthie]

I thought I was getting it at the beginning of sept but it looks like it will come to me next week!

[Trisha]

Currently 460 pages in; some pointers to discuss once you start reading: (view spoiler)[

🐺 In the book, Robb Stark has broken his oath and married Jeyne Westerling, who is also highborn, though house Westerling is not regarded as much as house Stark or the Frey’s to whom he was betrothed. (In the show, Robb marries Talisa, a healer from Volantis.) Back to the book, the Westerlings were allies to the Lannisters, but now they are with the Starks post Robb and Jeyne’s marriage. This makes the plot even more interesting than the tv show. Looking forward to see how the scene would be set for the red wedding.

🦁 Came across an interesting quote by Jamie, basically something he is thinking in his head:
“I cannot die while Cersei lives, he told himself. We will die together as we were born together.”

Does this hint at how both of them would later come to their end in the book? Like the tv show?

❄️ There is a mention of Craster’s sons in Samwell’s chapter. No proper information has been provided, but I’m still going to conclude that Craster’s sons were somehow transformed into Others aka white walkers. Something of this sort was shown in the show too! So, all the Others/white walkers are blood brothers, son to Craster and brother to Gilly. (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

On page 603 now. More thoughts: (view spoiler)[

🐺 I’ve always thought that Robb Stark’s marriage started this game of thrones. My husband thinks it was Ned Stark’s death that triggered the chain of events, but I blame Robb for all that happened. If he had married the Frey girl, the red wedding would have been avoided. In the chapter I just read, Jamie has learnt of Robb’s marriage and is thinking:

“Jamie felt almost sorry for Robb Stark. He won the war on the battlefield and lost it in a bedchamber, poor fool.”

🐲 I had goosebumps reading the chapter where Daenerys frees all the Yunkai slaves and they start calling her ‘Mhysa’ for mother! She is cursed to never bear a living child and here she is, respected as a mother of thousands and more. I love this girl who has grown so much over the years! (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

On page 857 now, some more pointers: (view spoiler)[

🐺 Robb legally made Jon Snow his heir, or so it is suggested, even though his mother opposed the idea. I don’t remember this being shown in the tv series but I might have forgotten. Been so long!

❄️ It is weird that the wights can only be killed by fire and not by obsidian, while their supposed masters - the Others aka the white walkers can only be killed by obsidian weapons and not by fire. Why would Martin make it more confusing?

❄️🐺 Came across the old Nan’s story about the NightKing which leads us to the Bran is the NightKing theory. Not much proof at the moment, but still quite interesting! (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Just finished! I have more thoughts to share but I think I should not load you with so many posts and rather wait for you to start. Here is my super tiny review with no spoilers:

My review. 🤓

[Ruthie]

Ok there must be a glitch on the library app because it keeps telling me that I'm about to get the book but then when I check later it says I will get it on Sept 27 ugh lol Can't wait to read all your thoughts I'll let you know when I finally get it!

[Trisha]

This topic has been moved to the October Buddy Reads folder.

[Ruthie]

OK I can finally comment on your thoughts! YAY! Not done yet still reading. Almost halfway through.

(view spoiler)[

Some thoughts:

🐟 The first hint of Lisa’s per-marriage affair and abortion. Since Catelyn didn’t know of this affair, this would have happened after she left for Winterfell. And from what I remember or have assumed, Baelish would have done this only to take revenge with Lord Tully.

--I didn't remember this from the show!

🐺 Another reference to Arya’s wolf-dreams. This time, she is preying on humans. Is she warging in Nymeria? I don’t remember the theories related to Arya’s warging abilities and I’d rather wait to see what comes along.

--I didn't realize this either, I don't know if the show explored her warging abilities if it did- I don't remember it.

🦁 Tywin’s hatred towards Tyrion is sickening. We can’t be sure at this stage if he really hates his son for being responsible for his mother’s death, or because Tyrion is actually not his blood. Remember the Targaryen heritage theories we have already discussed in the buddy read of book #2.

--Yes I think he KNOWS that Tyrion is not his. Maybe he saw his wife having an affair or she told him or something but I definitely think that he knows it as a fact because of him saying "I cannot prove you are not mine"

🌹 The Queen of Thorns is here! Loved her so much in the show, and she is just as powerful in the book as in the show. In the book, she has three grandsons, while in the TV show, I think there was just one, Loras. She has asked Sansa to marry her crippled grandson Willas, again very different from the TV show, where Sansa was supposed to marry Loras. Also, was there a reference to Renly and Loras’s affair in the second book? I don’t seem to remember.

--Yes I love her too! Also I'm surprised they didn't make the family the same size because it's quite interesting that Loras is a gold cloak. I think the 2nd book had that bedroom scene where they are in bed together and Loras sister is there too?? Don't fully remember though because I could be mixing it up with the show

🐎 Jon met Mance Rayder - King beyond the wall. Mance made an interesting revelation which I didn’t know of. He told that he visited Winterfell when Robert Baratheon had come to offer Ned Stark the role of his Hand. Did this happen in the show Mance is a terrific person though, daring and rebellious.

--No I don't think it happened in the show because in the show maybe they wanted it to seem like he had been the king beyond the wall for longer and in the book he's not been a deserter for very long

🐲 Jorah kissed Daenerys without her consent, oh dear God! I’m so grossed out now! This is obviously not the first time when a woman has been assaulted, but Jorah doing such a thing breaks my heart! When Daenerys calls him out for disrespecting her, all he says is, “I should not have waited so long...You were made to be kissed, often and well.” Wtf! And then he proposed to her. Worst proposal ever?

--I know! So gross even grosser that hes so old! It makes me think the author is living vicariously through his characters which is also a disgusting thought. I definitely don't like Jorah right now!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Ruthie]

(view spoiler)[

🐺 In the book, Robb Stark has broken his oath and married Jeyne Westerling, who is also highborn, though house Westerling is not regarded as much as house Stark or the Frey’s to whom he was betrothed. (In the show, Robb marries Talisa, a healer from Volantis.) Back to the book, the Westerlings were allies to the Lannisters, but now they are with the Starks post Robb and Jeyne’s marriage. This makes the plot even more interesting than the tv show. Looking forward to see how the scene would be set for the red wedding.

--Yes I agree!

🦁 Came across an interesting quote by Jamie, basically something he is thinking in his head:
“I cannot die while Cersei lives, he told himself. We will die together as we were born together.”

--WOW! so interesting how the foreshadowing is peppered in the book

Does this hint at how both of them would later come to their end in the book? Like the tv show?

❄️ There is a mention of Craster’s sons in Samwell’s chapter. No proper information has been provided, but I’m still going to conclude that Craster’s sons were somehow transformed into Others aka white walkers. Something of this sort was shown in the show too! So, all the Others/white walkers are blood brothers, son to Craster and brother to Gilly.

--Yes I noticed that too! The show displayed early on that the white walkers were taking babies, the book is going to reveal it later. Right now we think they are grown and coming for the baby if we didn't see the show that is what we would be thinking (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Ruthie, you are an incredibly sweet person to go through my bundle of notes so sincerely! Looking forward to your thoughts! xx

[Serena]

@Trisha, I'm realizing from your very thorough notes that I forgot so many rich details that made me fall in love with the book in the first place. I read the Song of Ice and Fire series in high school, so I'll blame my fuzzy memory on that but I definitely need to do a re-read. (view spoiler)[I do, however, have the distinct memory of audibly sobbing in my room during the Red Wedding scene. I was totally caught off guard! I was mostly a historical romance reader at the time, and I think the blatant disregard for "happy endings" was really eye-opening for me. You'd think I would have learned my lesson from his previous books but this book taught me to expect the unexpected from Martin. Also @Ruthie I never thought about Martin living vicariously through Jorah but for some reason it makes a lot of sense (and grosses me out haha) (hide spoiler)]

[Ruthie]

It's so fun to respond to your thoughts Trisha!

[Ruthie]

(view spoiler)[

Lol Serena! It grosses me out too haha I always wonder why authors write certain things especially something like an old old Jorah kissing a 16? yr old lol so when I thought "Why would he write that??" That is what I thought of. Because the thought grosses us all out so why didn't it gross out the author lol and it's not like Jorah is a "bad guy" so it's not like he wrote it as shock factor to make us think "Look at this guy he's really bad" lol (hide spoiler)]

[Ruthie]

(view spoiler)[

🐺 I’ve always thought that Robb Stark’s marriage started this game of thrones. My husband thinks it was Ned Stark’s death that triggered the chain of events, but I blame Robb for all that happened. If he had married the Frey girl, the red wedding would have been avoided. In the chapter I just read, Jamie has learnt of Robb’s marriage and is thinking:

“Jamie felt almost sorry for Robb Stark. He won the war on the battlefield and lost it in a bedchamber, poor fool.”

--Yes you're so right! But you could also argue it started way back before Rob's rebellion because he didn't know that Ned's sister (blanking on name) was actually married to Rhaghar ( I'm sure I butchered that spelling)
Because that set off the chain where he married Cersei while loving another woman and Cersei had her children with Jaime and then killed to protect the secret and then Rob asked Ned to be his hand of the king and so on and so forth. So love, honesty, and deception from all the different characters set off the chain of events that keeps the game of thrones going and going and going lol

🐲 I had goosebumps reading the chapter where Daenerys frees all the Yunkai slaves and they start calling her ‘Mhysa’ for mother! She is cursed to never bear a living child and here she is, respected as a mother of thousands and more. I love this girl who has grown so much over the years!

--I know I love that part too and this Daenerys that we see cannot possibly make the decision she makes at the end of the show. I'm still on the hunt for any pointing to her madness but as of right now I don't see it (hide spoiler)]

[Ruthie]

I'm 58% into it so I'll come back on to comment on your other comments when I get further!

[Ruthie]

(view spoiler)[

🐺 Robb legally made Jon Snow his heir, or so it is suggested, even though his mother opposed the idea. I don’t remember this being shown in the tv series but I might have forgotten. Been so long!

--I don't think it did show this, I don't remember it being shown

❄️ It is weird that the wights can only be killed by fire and not by obsidian, while their supposed masters - the Others aka the white walkers can only be killed by obsidian weapons and not by fire. Why would Martin make it more confusing?

--yes it is super weird and confusing lol maybe to make the fight scenes more interesting lol

❄️🐺 Came across the old Nan’s story about the NightKing which leads us to the Bran is the NightKing theory. Not much proof at the moment, but still quite interesting!

--Yes and the "all the Bran's" theory about how every Bran in history is the Bran that we know. I hope the book offers more detail about one or both of these theories. I'm excited for the part in the book where the night king touches him, maybe there's more detail about how that affected him b/c I think the theory had something to do with that scene (hide spoiler)]

[Ruthie]

Trisha wrote: "Just finished! I have more thoughts to share but I think I should not load you with so many posts and rather wait for you to start. Here is my super tiny review with no spoilers:

My review. 🤓"

I like your review and I totally agree. There was so much packed in this book it was like the first two books combined!

[Ruthie]

Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/edit...

[Trisha]

Serena wrote: "@Trisha, I'm realizing from your very thorough notes that I forgot so many rich details that made me fall in love with the book in the first place. I read the Song of Ice and Fire series in high sc..."

That scene is so heartbreaking, Serena, both in the book and the TV show! You weren’t the only who cried!

Also, these books are so detailed, it is next to impossible to remember everything! :)

[Trisha]

Ruthie wrote: "So gross even grosser that..."

Ruthie, yes! I felt the same! I have the same feeling every time I read a book by Haruki Murakami. Even though I love his writing most of the time, I always get so grossed out! 🤮

[Trisha]

Ruthie wrote: "Yes you're so right! But you could also argue it started way back before Rob's rebellion..."

Wow, yes, that makes sense! Great observation, Ruthie! :)

[Trisha]

Ruthie wrote: "Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/edit..."

Awesome review! I like the point that you made about the whole star cast narrating the audiobook; a very cool idea!

[Trisha]

Ruthie, when are we reading the next one? You’ll have to let me know in advance because I’ll need to purchase my copy.

@Serena - You can join us for the next one if you’re up for re-reading!

[Ruthie]

Trisha wrote: "Ruthie wrote: "So gross even grosser that..."

Ruthie, yes! I felt the same! I have the same feeling every time I read a book by Haruki Murakami. Even though I love his writing most o..."

I've never read this author!

I know! it would be awesome to have the whole cast narrating

[Ruthie]

I put it on hold and my library app says 4 weeks. We can make it a November -December read? Or if you need more time that's totally fine too.

[Trisha]

Let me check if I can find the book on sale somewhere. I have the entire box set (which my boyfriend/now husband gifted me years ago) but unfortunately it’s back in India at my parent’s place.

I’ll place an order and let you know.

[Serena]

@Trisha, I think I will join! Thanks for the offer. Just let me know when y'all plan on starting.

Also, I've never read anything by Haruki Murakami but have been intrigued. Do you like/recommend anything of his?

[Ruthie]

Ok sounds good Trisha!

I'd also be interested to know your recommendations for where to start with Haruki's books.

[Trisha]

Serena & Ruthie, I have a love and hate relationship with Haruki Murakami. While I enjoyed reading After Dark and What I Talk About When I Talk About Running (non-fiction), I HATED the overhyped 1Q84. I’d suggest to check the below given list and start with his top rated books (Sorry, I’m a lazy friend 😜)
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...

[Trisha]

Btw, ladies, I’ve placed an order for the 4th and 5th books, planning in advance now. So we are good for November, right?

[Ruthie]

Thanks Trisha! I'll check those out! And no worries, no one expects a response right away lol

Yes November sounds good

[Serena]

@Trisha Thanks for the recs! I'm glad you said that about 1Q84. I've had my eye on it for years but was nervous about investing the time. Now I know to steer clear.
And yes, November sounds good!