August 2020 monthly read (2 of 2): Stephen Graham Jones' The Only Good Indians

[Bill]

For the first time in years, we have a tie for our monthly read. Selection 2 (of 2) is Stephen Graham Jones' novel The Only Good Indians.

Let's start around the middle of next week (August 11 ish).

A review by author Gabino Iglesias:
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/16/891433...

Review from the LA Times:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment...

Jones' story "Father, Son, Holy Rabbit" is a favorite of mine. An article with more background info:
http://thresholds.chi.ac.uk/a-story-y...

[Marie-Therese]

Great links! Thanks, Bill. I'm looking forward to reading this as well as our other August read Hell Hound.

[Whitney]

Perfect timing, my library hold just came up.

[Bill]

Whitney wrote: "Perfect timing, my library hold just came up."

Awesome!

[Whitney]

Well, I don't have to worry about falling behind for once. I can't remember the last time I read a book in one day.

[Marie-Therese]

Whitney wrote: "Well, I don't have to worry about falling behind for once. I can't remember the last time I read a book in one day."

Wow! Really looking forward to reading this one now, Whitney!

[Dan]

While the book you're reading is not discussed at length in this interview, it is mentioned as a favorite by one of these two interviewed horror writers as they discuss Lovecraft: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/...

[Bill]

I was finishing up another novel, and just read the first two (short) chapters. Jones' prose style and mannerisms don't always work for me, but they're a good fit for what he's trying to do so far. The narrators' voices are compelling and superbly executed, and the first chapter especially has this careening momentum that's very attractive.

[Bill]

I'm about at the 45% mark. I find this pretty compelling so far, despite sections of prose that I find a bit chunky for my taste. I wouldn't be surprised if the descriptions of rural life, complete with hunting expeditions and dealing with racism, were based on the author's experiences.

We're in Lewis' head most of the time as we get the backstory. He's an obsessive guy who overthinks everything, so I can forgive some of the chunky prose. Sometimes I wish we got less of the mechanical details of fixing motorcycles etc, but I'm known for my short attention span.

It's hard to talk about the meat of the novel without giving away core details. So: (view spoiler)[I really like how my perception of Lewis shifted several times. At first he seemed like a regular guy, and I'm happy to accept his version of the supernatural events. Then came the shocking scene where he casually kills (causes the death of?) his coworker, and I was convinced that he was a psycho. But then we got the disturbing elk birth, which came out of nowhere. (hide spoiler)]Whew!

I'm a little concerned we'll get too many explanations of the mechanics of elk magic etc; I'm hoping things will remain relatively mysterious (always my preference!) Fingers crossed.

Whitney, what do you think? Anyone started this yet?

[Marie-Therese]

I'm a little over 30% in now and really enjoying this even as I cringe at some of the details.

I like Graham Jone's writing for the most part-I feel that he has a vivid, strong style that sometimes reminds me of the way some fine artists can evoke personality and movement in just a few bold strokes. There's nothing especially refined or streamlined here but there's nothing superfluous or fussy either. He's an empathetic writer, one who really seems to be able to get into a character's head and stay there come hell or high warer and I appreciate that.

I have a number of First Nations/Native American friends and I do know that the subject of waste, of killing something wantonly without the intention or means to use all of it, is a considered a sin, something almost unforgivable. I find that aspect of the work very resonant so far.

I do wonder if something I picked up on early in one character will come to fruition and if I'll be OK with that. Not sure yet, so I'm not going to provide any names/spoilers.

I very much look forward to discussing this book with others as we read further into it.

[Whitney]

Bill wrote: "I'm about at the 45% mark. I find this pretty compelling so far, despite sections of prose that I find a bit chunky for my taste. I wouldn't be surprised if the descriptions of rural life, complete..."

I literally yelled "oh, fuck!" when Lewis killed his coworker. His paranoid reasoning was so well done, and so inescapable. That was the point I couldn't stop reading (listening, technically).

I tend to like all the detail. I want to live with characters awhile for the horror to mean something, even to the point where they are boring me with their car talk the same way my my friends do (but not too far past that, please). Things do pick up a bit once you're past the Lewis section.

I had a friend who lived in an area of Alberta where the "cowboys versus Indians" drunken bar beatings were a regular thing, so I definitely buy Jones' description.

I'll wait until people are finished to say much more.

[Bill]

Marie-Therese wrote: "I have a number of First Nations/Native American friends and I do know that the subject of waste, of killing something wantonly without the intention or means to use all of it, is a considered a sin, something almost unforgivable."

It's something that I try to take seriously as well (I'm not Native American, and don't do any hunting!)

[Whitney]

I did question the game warden's decision to have them toss the meat, instead of having them distribute it to elders as Lewis did with the cow.

Aside from their trespass in driving in to the hunting area reserved for elders, and their unsporting slaughter of Elk they couldn't possibly use all of (and some details that come a bit later in the book), I wonder if Lewis' guilt wasn't a partial, Hawthornesque driver of the Elk Woman's creation. Especially given how masterful she is at exploiting their existing weaknesses and conflicts.

[Marie-Therese]

Whitney wrote: "I did question the game warden's decision to have them toss the meat, instead of having them distribute it to elders as Lewis did with the cow."

I wondered about that too. Maybe it was meant to play up the warden's badness, his distance from the land and the people who were once stewards of it. The wastefulness is really jarring and seems to drive home the point that this is not someone who has the Blackfeet's best interests at heart.

[Whitney]

Marie-Therese wrote: "Whitney wrote: "I did question the game warden's decision to have them toss the meat, instead of having them distribute it to elders as Lewis did with the cow."

I wondered about that too. Maybe it..."

It's not too much of a spoiler to say he's really not the bad guy of the piece. And imagine having to deal with those four trouble makers on a regular basis.

[Bill]

Just finished the section with Cass and Gabe. I was pretty taken aback with (view spoiler)[how easily Cass turned on Gabe, being old friends and all (hide spoiler)], but I guess my friends tend not to be violent men with anger management issues, and their judgement were not compromised after roasting in a sweat lodge.

[Whitney]

Bill wrote: "Just finished the section with Cass and Gabe. I was pretty taken aback with [spoilers removed], but I guess my friends tend not to be violent men with anger management issues, and their judgement w..."

I believe the elk women was manipulating the existing cracks, just like she did with Lewis.

[Bill]

Whitney wrote: "I believe the elk women was manipulating the existing cracks, just like she did with Lewis."

Hmm, that sounds reasonable.

I keep expecting her to just stomp them all to death, rather than do this manipulating thing.

I read the section with the basketball duel. Now I watch a lot of college basketball, but that was a bit extended even for me. But then most things could be shorter, if you ask me.

[Bill]

I'm done. Overall, a number of interesting ideas. The elk revenge processes are interesting, though probably handled more effectively in the first two killings. The second half of the novel was somewhat preoccupied with action thriller mechanics, which I don't have a lot of patience for. But other readers might very well enjoy this sort of thing. Some of Jones' writing also annoyed me a bit more towards the end, while I didn't mind similar prose in a short story.

And I did appreciate the little twist at the ending, when things seemed to be pointing toward some cathartic bloodbath, (view spoiler)[which was avoided (hide spoiler)].

[Marie-Therese]

I finished this just before I went in for knee surgery on Tuesday but didn't have a chance to comment before the drugs and recovery pain kicked in.

I really enjoyed this story overall but did feel it went a bit long in places (the whole basketball duel near the end was just too much-as a non sports fan it lost me and I ended up skimming until Denorah finally realized bball wasn't going to save her) and could have been tighter overall. Still, it's a rare horror book that moves me to tears at the end and this one did. I'm just so impressed by Graham Jones' characterization, his ability to conjure very real, flawed,but loveable people out of relatively few paragraphs. That's a remarkable gift and one I find in all of his stories.

[Whitney]

I loved everything about this book, I even found the basketball game riveting. So much more interesting that the usual back and forth cut and smash brutality of a typical slasher. Denorah's particular magic was her basketball skills, so that's the arena in which the final battle took place.

I'm currently reading Demon Theory, which makes me appreciate even more how complete and perfect Jones' knowledge of horror is, and how seemingly effortlessly he plays with the tropes of the genre.

*** I don't know what's a spoiler at this point, so I'll just say everything that follows in this post is likely a spoiler ***

Maybe it was a tad on the nose, but I loved how Denorah's basketball nickname was "finals girl". As I already said, I also liked the originality of the final big showdown being a basketball game, as well as the subversion of the typical, violent defeat of the nemesis, as Bill mentioned.

Before, I questioned why the game warden had them throw away the meat instead of giving it to the elders they had essentially poached it from. It retrospect, it makes sense from a plot standpoint. Their wastefulness (and wanton slaughter) was the original act of trespass that set the retribution in motion. By having them throw away what small part of the kill they had salvaged, the warden was participating in the trespass.

[Marie-Therese]

Whitney wrote: "Maybe it was a tad on the nose, but I loved how Denorah's basketball nickname was "finals girl"."

Yeah! I loved that too! It made me chuckle every time I saw it and I thought it was both an affectionate and a clever nod to silly but beloved horror tropes.

I do agree with you, Whitney, that basketball was Denorah's special power (although, of course, she's more than just an athlete and we see that in her later) and I imagine those who are more sporty would find Graham Jones intense play by play riveting (it was good enough that I read most of it, which is really saying something!). It just went on a tad too long for me but what you're saying here about using that to subvert the typical, more violent showdown does make it seem cooler than I realized as I read it.

[Bill]

Another thumbs up for finals girl!

When I was reading the basketball scene, I was thinking "Marie-Therese would be so not into this", haha. M-T, hope knee surgery went smoothly, and you're recovering nicely.

[Bill]

Jones made references to a Blood Clot Boy. I did some poking around, and turns out it's a real Blackfoot legend:

https://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Le...

One of my favorite Al Columbia comics is has references to the same legend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blo...

[Whitney]

Bill wrote: "Jones made references to a Blood Clot Boy. I did some poking around, and turns out it's a real Blackfoot legend:..."

Great links, thanks. Where in the book was blood clot boy referred to?

There has been a weird Baader-Meinhof thing going with Al Columbia lately. Although I think one of the other times I recently came across it may have been you, as well.

[Bill]

Whitney wrote: "Where in the book was blood clot boy referred to?"

As I recall, the references were all kind of incidental, and not too specific to the actual legend or events in the novel. For example, on p.222 (Kindle version), Nathan muses on Blood Clot Boy. I thought there was also a chapter titled The Blood-Clot Boy, but suddenly I can't find it. The Elk Head Woman is probably messing with my head.

I do talk about Al Columbia a lot, but I can't remember the Baader-Meinhof connection, hmm.

[Whitney]

Bill wrote: "Whitney wrote: "I do talk about Al Columbia a lot, but I can't remember the Baader-Meinhof connection, hmm...."

I meant as in "Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon", I've noticed Al Columbia references have come up several times in the last few months. Probably you, and my Fantagraphics friends, so not too uncanny.

I just bought the ebook of Only Good Indians, I hit my limit of wanting to look things up and not having a copy (plus I know I'll re-read it). Blood-Clot Boy came up in the chapter in the sweat lodge where so much of the old vs new conflict is at the center. Nathan is thinking back on "when he had three braids, was still being groomed to be an All-Star Indian. Before he started being who he really was." (Which I assume is the reference you found on page 222 of your retro, analog copy.)

Here's a link to a fun and interesting (and short) discussion between Jones and Shaun Taylor-Corbett, who narrated the audiobook (also Blackfeet). At one point Jones is talking about the person he contacted to get Blackfeet words and terms for the book, and then Taylor-Corbett says he contacted the same person for proper pronunciation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfhLw...

[Bill]

The poll for our October 2020 monthly read is up! Please vote by late this Saturday:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

Remember, if you vote for a book and it wins, you are committing to participate in the discussion.