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The Providence of Fire
Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne
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TPoF: Part 4: Chapter 24 - Chapter 32
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This was an interesting section. I was wondering after the last book if il Tornja was a Csestriim or one of their puppets, so I guess now we know. Also, the idea that killing the gods attached to specific emotions also kills those emotions in all people? Freaking awesome.I think that chapter 32 may be the single most important chapter in the book so far, and here's my theory: (view spoiler)
I'm enjoying this book a great deal so far, even if the constant stream of bad choices made by the main characters based on information from people who they know they shouldn't trust is a little exasperating. I imagine I'll be done by tomorrow, at this pace, and probably without time to post anything between now and the end...
Okay, at first I though that Kiel would be the Csestriim that Nira was looking for, so that he could be killed right as he was becoming useful... but now I'm thinking that it'll be il Tornja.Stay with me here. We know that there's a direct connection between human emotions and the young gods. Furthermore, we know that there's a direct connection between the most powerful leaches and human emotions as well. What if emotion leaches are diluted versions of the young gods, and the creation of the Atmani was an attempt to forcibly bring them back into the world so that the Csestriim could kill them? What if them going mad was a result of them letting too much of a young god into themselves?
Or maybe not... I guess the theory would hold more water if the number of Atmani matched the number of young gods, unless they were trying to bring back Ciena and Meshkent as well, or were just hedging their bets and trying to get a large sample size. Maybe the Csestriim who kidnapped all of the kids were holding them in the hope that one would manifest as a god or something.
Huh, that's pretty cool...I would have never thought of that, but now that you say it, it makes a lot of sense. Also, Il Tornja, as the man who would usurp the throne, not as Csestriim, has been using the Urghal to give a common enemy to the people and legitimize his claim to power. But as Csestriim, all of this is a little beneath him and I wondered what his true motivations for war with the Urghal were. (view spoiler)Nice thinking!
I also echo your sentiment that this book is extremely enjoyable, despite the frustration of the main characters making poor decisions based off information from people they know they should not trust, and not trusting people they should be trusting :)
You are right chapter 32 is important. I like your theory and will give it more consideration as I read on. Now knowing what we know about il Tornja, we see how Adare is being manipulated into war with the Urughal. Although Long Fist is obviously not the innocent defender he claims to be. I am anxious to see what happens now with Gwenna and the other ladies now that Flea and his wing have shown up. I hope Balendin gets,his come uppence at some point!
This story is getting more interesting. Just as with the first book, the plot thickens in the second half and the book gets better and better.
Sky I like your theory - and...that added a lot of good reasoning to the book - so I hope you are right!I'm glad I'm not the only one who is saying "Aargh - you believe this guy? You are doing what he wants!?" (Adare especially) There is a little too much of that for my taste.
I do like how things are ramping up, and I'm enjoying each of the 3 (and now 4) point of views.
Very interesting theories everyone. I was wrong that il Tornja wouldn't be Csestriim in the last section. :(
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I'm so lost on this history stuff and a lot of the names. Especially the couple of chapters with Kaden, Triste, @@@@ (see below), and Triste's mother (Is she her biological mother, or is that a title like "mother superior")?
So hopefully one of you can help me clear up some names, and resolve exactly what we learned in this section.
@@@@ - The old guy Kaden breaks out whose apparently the Csestriim historian? Is his name Kiel?
Longfist - Shaman whose united the tribes of the Urughal and appears to be allied with Baledin. I wonder if he was actually the one who sent Baledin after Valyn, and forced him to lose some fingers to point the finger at $$$$ (see below) and try to sway Valyn to trust him.
$$$$ - The general of the empire who killed the emperor that Adare first bedded and later fled from after discovering a note from her father in the book he gave her. Is this Il Tornja? If not, whose Il Tornja?
So I have:
@@@@ - Kiel?
$$$$ - Il Tornja?
Meanwhile Triste's mother painted 2 people (I think?) for @@@@ and he said they were both Csestriim? Is that correct? I really wish I could have reread that part of that chapter. I listened to it a few times, but I just couldn't follow the names. Based on your comments, one of them Il Tornja?
And as to Chapter 32. So there were once 8 "gods", and the Csestriim killed 2 of them so they only knew about 6 of them? Are Nira and Oshie 2 of the others? They rattled off a bunch of names, but I'm so bad at picking them out from listening.
And if Nira/Oshi aren't part of the young gods, then what are they referred to as again? Is that the Atmani? They were experiments of the Csestriim, who enhanced their magic at the cost of driving them insane for using it, right?
$$$$ admits (on paper no less) to killing the Emperor, but claims it was because the Emperor refused to address the threat of the invading Urughal. And it looks like Longfist was lying (I'm *shocked*) about his "defensive" army to Valyn and they are readying to invade.
So are they both ($$$$ and Long Fist) lying to their respective siblings? Are they actually working together?
I forget exactly who was trying to kill Kaden in the first book. I thought it was soldiers under the command of the Adiv (the blind adviser guy whose working for $$$$). Though he claimed to Adare they got there too late to save Kaden. But wasn't he the one who gave Triste to Kaden? So he was lying to her, right?
As a side note, I'm enjoying the addition of Gwenna as a POV. I'm hoping we finally learn the deal with the Flea's wing in her next chapter. I think they'll be allies, but I'm not quite sure why they previously attacked Vayln's even if they weren't trying to kill them outright.
Another note, I didn't read the theories/comments in the spoiler tags, so maybe some of the names/clarifications are contained within, and if so I apologize.
This book started slow, but I'm really into it now. Just a bit confused because of terrible way with names..
Please help! Otherwise I might go buy the damn ebook just to get things straight in my head. Thanks!
Hope I am not spoilering, but I think I am just answering your questions.Yep, Kiel is a Csetriim historian that Kaden breaks out of prison.
Ran Il Tornja is the general, now appointed kennerang by the dead emperor.
Triste's mother (biological) is a leina, a priestess of Ciena trained in the arts of entertaining and pleasuring men. Triste does not know who her biological father was, but apparently he was a noble.
Kaden asks Triste's mother to paint Il Tornja and Adiv - Adiv is the emissary that went along with the emperors guard to find Kaden in the monastery.
The gods and races are listed in the back of the book, so I will list them for you here since you are doing audio
Races:
Nevariim
Csestriim
Human
Old gods, in order of antiquity
the Blank God - oldest god, prayed to by shin monks
Ae - Consort to the blank god, goddess of creation
Astar-ren - Godess of law, mother of order and structure. Called the spider by some.
Pta - Lord of chaos, disorder, and randomness
Intarra - Lady of light, goddess of fire, starlight, and the sun. Patron of the Malkeenian Emperors of annur, who claim to be her direct ancestor
Hull - The owl king, the bat, the lord of darkness, lord of night, aegis of the kettral, patron of theives
Bedisa - Goddess of birth, she who weaves the souls of all living creatures
Ananshael - God of death, lord of bones, unknits the weaving of his consort bedisa. Worshipped by the skullsworn
Ciena - Goddess of pleasure, mother of the young gods
Meshkent - the cat, lord of pain and cries. father of the young gods, worshipped by the urghul
The Young Gods, all Coeval with humanity
Eira - goddess of love and mercy
Maat - Lord of rage and hate
Kaveraa - Lady of terror, fear
Heqet - God of courage and battle
Orella - goddess of hip
Orilon - God of despair
Nira and Yoshi are referred atmani - this is something I wrote in ch 7-14 section:
I like Nira and Oshi - There is some back story I am getting, some human leaches (The Atmani) that went crazy and destroyed their empire, sometime after the war with the Csestriim? And they are the two remaining? The book Adare's father bequeathed to her was "History of the Atmani". And it was during the Atmani war that the two Csestriim abducted all the children. Anyways Nira's foul mouth is pretty funny.
Yes, don't trust Adiv - it was his fellow ketteral that tried to kill Valyn in book 1. I believe they were acting under either Adiv or Il tornja's orders, I dont remember who. He is more directly involved in the book in trying to kill kaden, and is the one who gives triste to kaden.
In the audio (and probably in the book) Adiv's speech to Adare was very persuasive - I had to REALLY think - wait a second - this guy was really bad and tried to kill Kaden, because I thought he was pretty believable even when I knew differently.
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Thanks a lot Sky, that is very helpful. I wish that appendix from the book was available on his website or something (though maybe it is, I've never been there)
OK, so after Leina painted Ran Il Tornja and Adiv, Kiel said he didn't recognize them, but that he thought they were both Csetriim? I that right?
The other Sky said: "I was wondering after the last book if il Tornja was a Csestriim or one of their puppets, so I guess now we know."
Or am I still confused/wrong?
Kiel recognizes Ran Il Tornja as Tan'is the Csestriim from the prologue of the first book. He doesn't recognize Adiv who Kaden painted.
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I don't remember Tan'is from the prologue of the first book anymore. It seems as though I need to revisit that at some point. lol.
I vaguely remember it...He was the ancient guy killing his own daughter, who was human, because she was ravaged by the disease of aging, or something like that. At the time we didn't know he was Csestriim. I didn't know till bill pointed it out that it was Il Tornja/Tanis
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