Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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August 2020 Discussion About Reading GH's Regencies in Order!
I'll kick it off by saying that Regency Buck covers a much longer time period than is usual for a GH Regency - & with more info dumping. After that. GH expected you to know "her" Regency world.
I thought the earlier books (such as The Corinthian, Friday's Child, Arabella) were fresher on the whole than some of the later ones, but she was a skilled writer and could fashion something entertaining at any stage of her writing of Regencies. I updated my top 10 on Louise Sparrow's list and two of them are later books, False Colours and Black Sheep. It is difficult to generalize about GH!Also, I have *not* read all of her Regencies, as I thought after finishing Charity Girl. I never finished An Infamous Army--and probably never will.
AIA, like Regency Buck, had a lot of real life people. I think GH very sensibly cut down on that in her later Regencies to free up her characterisations. & a lot of the books appear to be set after Brummel's downfall so her hero could be the arbiter of fashion.
I hadn’t thought of the difference including real life people made. Good point!
That's a great theory about why she set so many stories post-Waterloo! I always wondered; it seemed an odd choice because of all the economic and social upheavals that followed the Peace, rarely alluded to.
Abigail wrote: "That's a great theory about why she set so many stories post-Waterloo! I always wondered; it seemed an odd choice because of all the economic and social upheavals that followed the Peace, rarely al..."Yes, I think Worth & Brummell shared the stage very well - but it would have been hard to keep up.
I actually like her depictions of some real people--the Patronesses, Petersham, Brummell himself in one book (Arabella?? One of the ingenues who didn't recognize him and made fun to his face of some fribble she assumed to be Brummell.)
Abigail wrote: "I actually like her depictions of some real people--the Patronesses, Petersham, Brummell himself in one book (Arabella?? One of the ingenues who didn't recognize him and made fun to his face of som..."That was Judith in Regency Buck. & I love Brummell in Regency Buck, but would still argue that his presence would be limiting if he appeared in too many books.
I agree with you--just glad we get both!
I started this comment several hours ago and then my computer ate it. Anyway...Going back to Regency Buck and the info dumps--I think GH was using them to ground herself in the period as well as to inform and entertain the reader. Once GH was thoroughly at home (and comfortable) setting her stories in the Regency era, the info dumps disappeared.
As to blending in the actual historical figures--she went from fitting her fictional characters into the 'real' Regency to fitting a few real people into her version of the Regency.
I skipped "An Infamous Army" because I disliked both "These Old Shades" and "Regency Buck" and it featured some common characters, but I am starting to reconsider. Seems an "unusual" Heyer and an interesting book, both in terms of historical background and characters and plot.
Together with the group I have readRegency Buck
The Foundling
The Quiet Gentleman
Cotillion
The Toll-gate
The Unknown Ajax
Black Sheep
Lady of Quality
(+ Georgette Heyer's Regency World by Jennifer Kloester)
These were all first reads for me except "Cotillion" (still my favorite)
(Other books by Heyer I've read, but before I joined the group: The Grand Sophy, Sylvester, The Convenient Marriage, The Nonesuch, A Civil Contract + These Old Shades which I did not finish)
Overall I prefer books "heavy" on plot, with some mystery to solve (The Quiet Gentleman) or wacky schemes (The Foundling & Cotillion), with the romance more in the background. The exception is "A Civil Contract", where nothing much "happens", but the premise and the character study were very interesting and engaging (an "anti-romance").
And her male characters tend to stick in my mind more than her heroines.
I didn't reread An Infamous Army either because I don't like the relationship portion. The battle portion is masterful, but painful to read.
Sorry all, I had my two brain surgeries in June 2017 and April 2018, and though I tried to read with the group every month, my memory is rather fuzzy about a lot of things over the last few years! I’m healthy, and very grateful, but brain fog is definitely a thing with neuro issues, so I probably won’t contribute a great deal - I enjoyed most of the books, skipped some, but don’t remember tons of plot issues, characters, etc. As always, I’ll lurk and read comments, I always learn so much - thanks for that!
It doesn’t require brain surgery to lose the details of the books over the years! I can’t keep them straight, or remember the names of characters, with any regularity. Keep thinking I should make lists of characters and keep a personal Heyer database.
Abigail wrote: "It doesn’t require brain surgery to lose the details of the books over the years! I can’t keep them straight, or remember the names of characters, with any regularity. Keep thinking I should make l..."Abigail is right, Susan! I can play Jeopardy, but that doesn't mean I can remember all the plots and characters in Heyer's repertoire.
Abigail wrote: "It doesn’t require brain surgery to lose the details of the books over the years! I can’t keep them straight, or remember the names of characters, with any regularity. Keep thinking I should make l..."Lol! That’s a good idea! Glad I’m not the only one...;)
Karlyne wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It doesn’t require brain surgery to lose the details of the books over the years! I can’t keep them straight, or remember the names of characters, with any regularity. Keep thinking..."😂 “what is, thank you!”
Susan in NC: you are SO not the only one!
Susan in NC wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It doesn’t require brain surgery to lose the details of the books over the years! I can’t keep them straight, or remember the names of characters, with any regularit..."Haha, Susan!
Jackie wrote: "Susan in NC: you are SO not the only one!"😂
Susan--I'd say--Join the club!If I've read the book a zillion times, the I can match title with main characters and general plot. I might even remember a memorable line or two. These books are few (very few!) in number.
Otherwise, it is all one big blur, until I open the book and start re-reading. Then I might remember. Or not.
Susan in NC wrote: "Sorry all, I had my two brain surgeries in June 2017 and April 2018, and though I tried to read with the group every month, my memory is rather fuzzy about a lot of things over the last few years! ..."Not to worry, Susan, there are so many Heyers, we all forget points from time to time!
I didn't really see us in this thread going too specific on each books plot points - only general things that struck on this read - like Sheila finding the earlier Regencies fresher in style. :)I've added a Wikipedia listing of the the Regencies in order to my first post.
Like Moloch, I enjoy the more plot-heavy stories, as well as ones that have more characters from the lower classes. An exclusive diet of aristocrats is thin gruel for me! I enjoy stories like The Foundling where the hero has to live by his wits and endure discomforts for a bit, because these reveal character in ways that stories set entirely in London don't so much. I wish more of the heroes were military men, and like the more independent, "working" heroes like Hugo in The Unknown Ajax and Kit Fancot in False Colours.
Abigail wrote: "Like Moloch, I enjoy the more plot-heavy stories, as well as ones that have more characters from the lower classes. An exclusive diet of aristocrats is thin gruel for me! I enjoy stories like The F..."To me it is noticeable that GH loses interest in the "idle aristocrat" hero. Not saying she doesn't have working heroes in some of her earlier books like AIA & The Tollgate, but from An Unknown Ajax- Cousin Kate the heroes all have a profession/purpose - other than in Frederica where the Merivale family give the bored Alverstoke a purpose in life.
Regency reading list in order (I put it in spoilers so it takes up less room)(view spoiler)Looking at the titles, I find it interesting that she only used the characters' names in a handful - Arabella, Sophy, Sylvester, Venetia, Frederica and Kate. The single word titles are magnificent names, though.
How about Gervase? Often we don't know the first name of the heroes, though. For example, I totally forgot Damerel's name was Jasper.
And often, the heroine / love match is a surprise, so the name simply cannot be the title! Imaging reading The Quiet Gentleman if the title were Drusilla or Sprig Muslin if it were titled Hester.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "To me it is noticeable that GH loses interest in the "idle aristocrat" hero. Not saying she doesn't have working heroes in some of her earlier books like AIA & The Tollgate, but from An Unknown Ajax- Cousin Kate the heroes all have a profession/purpose - other than in Frederica where the Merivale family give the bored Alverstoke a purpose in life."Overall, I do prefer the working heroes more like Hugo and Jack. Tristam is very industrious, and hopefully will continue to be so with Sarah in his life. Though we don't know what he did before the book begins. And even Gilly, when he decided that he wanted to do something rather than just let everyone else run his life, becomes more interesting.
Now it is my memory - which one is Jack? I can just think of secondary character Jack in Cotillion - who is the definition of a waste of oxygen!
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Now it is my memory - which one is Jack? I can just think of secondary character Jack in Cotillion - who is the definition of a waste of oxygen!"Captain John Staples from the Toll-Booth, who is called Jack in the book as a nickname. Is Jack a common nickname for John?
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Now it is my memory - which one is Jack? I can just think of secondary character Jack in Cotillion - who is the definition of a waste of oxygen!"Captain John Staple..."
Ha! My aging memory! I think it used to be. Nowadays it is more common for James
Yes, Jack is often used as a nickname for John. My father was named John but was usually "Jack" to his friends.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I think it used to be. Nowadays it is more common for James."Hmmm, I've never heard Jack as a nickname for James--but Jack as a substitute for John, or standing on its own, is certainly common. My son is known as Jack, though it says 'John' on his birth certificate.
Did GH ever name any of her heroes James? I know there's many a Jim (common nickname) among the stable lads and coachmen.
I looked Jack up & this is interesting.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(g... Jack became a nickname for James because of the French version of the name (Jacques)
Like the link says Jack is now a name in its own right though.
I don't think any heroes are James or Jim, but there have been other characters with the name James who weren't servants.In Devil's Cub there are two 'cameos' of real people: Charles James Fox and George James, 4th Earl of Cholmondeley (pronounced Chumley, of course)
a few more 'real people cameos' in AIA
Abigail's older brother in Black Sheep
unsavoury Sir James Filey from Faro's Daughter
James Winton in Powder and Patch
the thief Jimmy Yarde in the Corinthian
A pretty thorough listing for characters in Heyer books can be found here: http://www.heyerlist.org/whos-who/
*edited to cite source
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I looked Jack up & this is interesting.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(g... Jack became a nickname for James because of the French version of the name (Jacques)
Like the link says Jack..."
That's interesting!
Not a regency example, but Jack Carstares is another Heyer hero named John who goes by Jack.
We're never told what Jack Westruther's actual given name is in Cotillion, are we?
Margaret wrote: "We're never told what Jack Westruther's actual given name is in Cotillion, are we?"No - & it would be hard to think of him as John or James.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Sorry all, I had my two brain surgeries in June 2017 and April 2018, and though I tried to read with the group every month, my memory is rather fuzzy about a lot of things over ..."Thanks so much, you’ve all made me feel much better! I’m with Barb - sometimes, once I start reading, if I’ve read it previously, I remember characters or scenes (not always, especially if it wasn’t really a favorite).
Margaret wrote: "Yes, Jack is often used as a nickname for John. My father was named John but was usually "Jack" to his friends."President John Kennedy was known as "Jack" to his friends and family, too. It confused my mom when he was elected because she thought John and Jack were twins. :-)
very interesting thread! and, Critterbee, I am loving all of "message 28".I've read the novels so much I forget that a new reader might not realize (immediately, anyway) that Hester was the heroine rather than the ingenue, whose name escapes me. (although I LOVE her secondary romance with the soldier. )
I assume it's harder to remember the first names of many heros since they are often referred to by their title.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Regency reading list in order (I put it in spoilers so it takes up less room)Regency Buck
An Infamous Army
The Corinthian
Friday's Child
The Reluctant Widow
The Foundling
Arabella
The Grand Sophy
..."
Cousin Kate is, especially, an apt title, since it's what Martin calls her. There's a kind of pathos to it, because he does!
I found reading the Regencies in order to be illuminating, especially while simultaneously reading and studying Austen. At first Heyer borrowed heavily from Jane Austen's phrases. She hit her stride when she read 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue and created her own Regency world. My top 3 favorites changed places reading them back-to-back. I didn't get to reread all of them so I think I'll go back and read some of the ones I missed.
Jackie wrote: "very interesting thread! and, Critterbee, I am loving all of "message 28".I've read the novels so much I forget that a new reader might not realize (immediately, anyway) that Hester was the heroi..."
Those pesky heroes with 3 or 4 names! In The Foundling,our hero was the Most Noble Adolphus Gillespie Vernon Ware, Duke of Sale and Marquis of Ormesby; Earl of Sale; Baron Ware of Thame; Baron Ware of Stoven and Baron Ware of Rufford, so he had many names he could pick from, and ended up with the nickname Gilly!
QNPoohBear wrote: "I found reading the Regencies in order to be illuminating, especially while simultaneously reading and studying Austen. At first Heyer borrowed heavily from Jane Austen's phrases. She hit her strid..."I didn't reread them all, either, and I kind of wish I had. Some of the most well-known--Sylvester, The Grand Sophy, Venetia--I didn't reread, leaving big holes in the progression as I don't remember them all that well.
I've always been struck by Heyer's preference for "fancy" names. Given the kind of research she did, I am sure they are names that were actually in use. But they are very un-Austenlike.
Jackie wrote: "very interesting thread! and, Critterbee, I am loving all of "message 28".I've read the novels so much I forget that a new reader might not realize (immediately, anyway) that Hester was the heroi..."
Very true.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Jackie wrote: "very interesting thread! and, Critterbee, I am loving all of "message 28".I've read the novels so much I forget that a new reader might not realize (immediately, anyway) that Heste..."
Lol - I was going to say, with all the titles, I forget first names, as Jackie said - but two personal favorites only need first names for me to know exactly who is being discussed - Gilly and Hugo!
Abigail wrote: "Like Moloch, I enjoy the more plot-heavy stories, as well as ones that have more characters from the lower classes. An exclusive diet of aristocrats is thin gruel for me! I enjoy stories like The F..."Yes, those are two of my favorites, for the plots and characters. I also really enjoy the plots with old retainers who are like members of the family - often, they are more like family for several of the aristocratic and/or wealthy characters then their own flesh and blood, as they’ve often been the actual hands-on caregivers.
Critterbee❇ wrote: "Regency reading list in order (I put it in spoilers so it takes up less room)Regency Buck
An Infamous Army
The Corinthian
Friday's Child
The Reluctant Widow
The Foundling
Arabella
The Grand Sophy
..."
Lol, very true, Drusilla and Hester don’t really scream femme fatale, do they?
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
A Conformable Wife (other topics)1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue (other topics)
Regency Buck (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Alice Chetwynd Ley (other topics)Sarah M. Eden (other topics)
Barbara Cartland (other topics)
I'm really looking forward to reading everyone's opinions. :)
A few ground rules.
There will be open spoilers in this thread, so participate with care, especially if you haven't read many of GH's books. I'm also going to allow open spoilers on Jane Austen's books, as well as GH's most famous plagiarist, Barbara Cartland Any other Regency writers' work, please use spoiler tags.
And, as always, be respectful of others' opinions!
Also, Louise Sparrow created this Listopia. https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1... for GH's Historical Romances if anyone wants to list their order of preference. No obligation of course - just a bit of fun.
GH's Regencies in order - this Wikipedia list is the only one I can find - just scroll down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...