August 2020 Discussion About Reading GH's Regencies in Order!

[Abigail]

I like the old retainers too--both reality checks and trusted companions for the main characters. Of course, that's a pretty cruel trope when you think about it--but when I'm enjoying a story I try to shut out that aspect of the question!

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "I like the old retainers too--both reality checks and trusted companions for the main characters. Of course, that's a pretty cruel trope when you think about it--but when I'm enjoying a story I try..."

Very true, but just like being realistic about looking at values of the time in a historical novel through twenty-first century eyes, I try to just enjoy the story. (If that makes sense).

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Speaking of values, overall GH moved away from the idle aristocrat hero later in life. I know a couple of her heroes in her earlier books (Charles in AIA & Jack in The Tollgate) had professions, but from An Unknown Ajax - Cousin Kate her heroes have a purpose/profession. Other than Frederica where the Merivales give Alverstoke a purpose & rescue him from boredom.

& Phoebe is the last ingenue heroine (I think - I didn't reread Charity Girl but I remember the heroine as sensible) Cressy (False Colours) is young but very mature.

[Karlyne]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Jackie wrote: "very interesting thread! and, Critterbee, I am loving all of "message 28".

I've read the novels so much I forget that a new reader might not realize (immediately, anyway) that Heste..."

When I read Dr. Zhivago as a teen, the names drove me crazy! The cast of characters in my mind numbered thousands, and I was never sure which name - formal, informal, pet, - referred to which character. That's probably the only reason I've never reread it...

[Critterbee❇]

Susan in NC wrote: "Lol, very true, Drusilla and Hester don’t really scream femme fatale, do they?"


So true! And also true for Anthea, Ancilla, and Horatia!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I like Anthea as a name, Ok, maybe not femme fatale, but I think it is pretty.

It came up in the LOQ discussion, but GH certainly liked A & H names for female characters.

[Critterbee❇]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Speaking of values, overall GH moved away from the idle aristocrat hero later in life. I know a couple of her heroes in her earlier books (Charles in AIA & Jack in The Tollgate) had professions, bu..."

Charles was a younger son, and Jack was heir presumptive (likely to be cut out by future children of the Earl), but only a handful of other Regency heroes were not titled or heir to titles, and fewer were not the firstborn son.
(view spoiler)[
Heroes who are not titled
Robert Beaumaris from Arabella - firstborn, idle
Christopher Fancot from False Colours - second son, Military
Miles Calverleigh from Black Sheep - second son, Business
Oliver Carleton from Lady of Quality - firstborn, idle

*from the Georgian
Max Ravenscar from Faro's Daughter - firstborn, idle (hide spoiler)]

[Critterbee❇]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I like Anthea as a name, Ok, maybe not femme fatale, but I think it is pretty.

It came up in the LOQ discussion, but GH certainly liked A & H names for female characters."

I knew an Anthea who was def not a femme fatale, so my mind often conjures her up when I hear that name.

I like the name Drusilla as well; my fav Heyer heroine names are Arabella, Hero, Drusilla and Cressida.

[Susan in NC]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I like Anthea as a name, Ok, maybe not femme fatale, but I think it is pretty.

It came up in the LOQ discussion, but GH certainly liked A & H names for female characters."

Oh, my gosh, that’s true, hadn’t really thought about it, but listing all the names together...

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Small correction. Kit wasn't military he worked in the diplomatic service. :) (British members can correct my phrasing!)

[Critterbee❇]

Thanks for the correction - seeing that he did not have a rank, I should have known!

[Ah]

And Robert Beaumaris is the grandson (through his mother) of a Duke, and his father must have been very wealthy. Just as Alverstoke's sister Eliza was allowed to marry her genteel-but-not-titled husband because he was very rich!

[Susan in Perthshire]

I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of the 26 books on the wiki list that Carol listed at the beginning of the thread - I find my 10 absolute favourites are spread right across the decades; they are not tied to her 'early' or 'late' phases, but occur in every decade. Whilst some of the books she wrote are less interesting to me than others, they are still usually worth a read. So, in every decade I have found books to which I can return innumerable times.

In date order, (not necessarily my top ten order) - the Regency books which I continually re-read are:

An Infamous Army 1937
The Reluctant Widow 1946
The Grand Sophy 1950
The Toll-gate 1954
April Lady 11957
Venetia 1958
False Colours 1963
Frederica 1965
Black Sheep 1968
Lady of Quality 1972

It seems to me that those favourites all have a very solid story-line, fantastic protagonists and provide a real sense of the time and above all provide me with true escapism. The Reluctant Widow is very different to Black Sheep and yet I love both of them. Similarly An Infamous Army (which always divides opinion) and A Civil Contract each offer deeply mature stories which are embedded in the historical context in which they are set. I think it is remarkable that GH could produce books across such a wide ranging arena.

I think there are only a couple on that list that I would never read again!

[Sheila (in LA)]

Are you suggesting, Carol, that she moved away from aristocratic heroes and ingenues because she became disenchanted with them and wanted to write characters that she found more sympathetic (or drawn more from her own life)? Something like that?

[Susan in NC]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of the 26 books on the wiki lis..."

I like your reasoning, and agree - I’m always looking for escapist, entertaining reading, good characters, humor, etc., and Heyer rarely disappoints!

[Critterbee❇]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "...Out of the 26 books on the wiki list that Carol listed at the beginning of the thread - I find my 10 absolute favourites are spread right across the decades; they are not tied to her 'early' or 'late' phases, but occur in every decade. Whilst some of the books she wrote are less interesting to me than others, they are still usually worth a read. So, in every decade I have found books to which I can return innumerable times."

That is so interesting, Susan, and makes me want to go look at my top ten for common threads.

And you have a selection that includes some of Heyer's darker stories (An Infamous Army, Reluctant Widow, The Toll-gate), and some of the most independent heroines (Sophy, Venetia, Frederica, Abigail, Annis).

[Karlyne]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of the 26 books on the wiki lis..."

My list would be similar (although A Civil Contract is my favorite), but April Lady is one I can never remember! I'm trying not to cheat... I need a clue... Nope, it's not coming to me.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "Are you suggesting, Carol, that she moved away from aristocratic heroes and ingenues because she became disenchanted with them and wanted to write characters that she found more sympathetic (or drawn..."

Yes, I do think that.

I think it was probably a combination of supporting most of her family for all or most of their lives & her son, Sir Richard Rougier being very successful in his chosen field (law)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard...
GH called him "most notable (indeed peerless) work."

Sir Richard was "called to the bar" in 1956 & the Unknown Ajax was published in 1959. I think as he became more successful GH did start to value a successful working man more.

& Sylvester (published 1957)had a very strong sense of duty.

Edit: & Phoebe planned to support herself & her nurse by writing novels.

[Teresa]

I'm so glad Susan made that comment and reading all the comments that followed I realised it's not just me!!! When a book is mentioned I know vaguely what it's about, but the minute I read the first chapter it comes flooding back. I don't have a great memory. I read so many books sometimes it's hard to keep it all in.
However, I'll enjoy reading all the posts here, even if I have nothing to offer.

[Karlyne]

Teresa wrote: "I'm so glad Susan made that comment and reading all the comments that followed I realised it's not just me!!! When a book is mentioned I know vaguely what it's about, but the minute I read the firs..."

Don't worry, Teresa! Something will jog your memory, and you can jump in!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of the 26 books on the wiki lis..."

I'm glad someone else enjoys April Lady (although I don't agree it has a strong storyline) I am fond of Nell & Giles.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Teresa wrote: "I'm so glad Susan made that comment and reading all the comments that followed I realised it's not just me!!! When a book is mentioned I know vaguely what it's about, but the minute I read the firs..."

& I remember the books fairly well, because I have read most of them so many times! Some things though I have forgotten but I remember as I reread.

[Karlyne]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of ..."

I had to look it up, and then I remembered I wanted to strangle Nell...

[Critterbee❇]

Following Susan's idea, my top ten and the years they were published:

Friday's Child 1944
The Grand Sophy 1950
Cotillion 1953
Sprig Muslin 1956
The Unknown Ajax 1959
The Nonesuch 1962
False Colours 1963
Frederica 1965
Black Sheep 1966
Lady of Quality 1972

How odd! I never noticed that while I really like the Georgians, which Heyer wrote earlier in her career, I tend to like her later Regencies more than her earlier ones.

[Susan in Perthshire]

Karlyne wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been ..."

Yes, I know what you mean - but I love it for Giles! (Although he also needed a good shaking.)

I normally dislike the contrived misunderstandings - especially those between a married couple who are intimate. I mean, the idea they could keep their love secret!!

I love The Convenient Marriage too but of course, that's a Georgian. They are both fun.

[Kim]

I am glad we did it as some books got read that never won the polls, and while reading her biography, it was good to have them in context. I also like to observe how writers evolve. I find I liked her later ones more upon re-reading, especially A Civil Contract which upon reading the first time I found disappointing, but after experiencing life, marriage, children, I now find to be a quiet gem. Some books stand the test of time better than others, I shall have to contemplate my own top 10.

[Teresa]

I agree totally about A Civil Contract Kim. I didn't like it at all when a I first read it, a long time ago now. On reading it with the group I found I really enjoyed it and didn't know why I hated it first time around.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Teresa wrote: "I agree totally about A Civil Contract Kim. I didn't like it at all when a I first read it, a long time ago now. On reading it with the group I found I really enjoyed it and didn't know why I hated..."

Maybe too realistic?

I know that is why I didn't care for it at first, in my younger, more romantic days.

[Teresa]

Quite possible Carol. We like everything rosy in the garden when we're young :)

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I only had my 5 star reads on Louise's list before & I am still contemplating my rankings, as I think I have Pistols for Two a bit high.

My Regency Only Top 10

1 Cotillion 1953
2 Black Sheep 1966
3 Friday's Child 1944
4 The Unknown Ajax 1959
5 Arabella 1949
6 Venetia 1958
7 The Grand Sophy 1950
8 The Foundling 1948
9 The Corinthian 1940
10 Sylvester 1957

A lot of these are very close though. Since being on GR, Arabella has gone down slightly in my regard (Bertram drives me mad) & The Unknown Ajax & The Foundling have gone up quite a bit.

[Sheila (in LA)]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Sheila (in LA) wrote: "Are you suggesting, Carol, that she moved away from aristocratic heroes and ingenues because she became disenchanted with them and wanted to write characters that she found m..."

That makes sense to me and explains quite a lot.

What is amusing in fiction might not be in real life.

[Critterbee❇]

I disliked A Civil Contract after my first read, mainly because it was not what I expected - how dare an author write something different from what I have read of her before, etc

After re-reading it a few times, I have grown to like it a lot. Even though it is still not in my top ten - Jenny is so patient, which I admire, and in the end she has her happiness.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I was disappointed in The Foundling the first couple of times I read it. GH had done a bit of a twist where Gideon was like a typical GH hero, so I was disappointed. & there was an extra twist where Gideon remained a great guy.

[Critterbee❇]

Gideon is one of my fav non-hero heroes. Reading a book with him as the hero would have been a treat. And sweet pushover Cyprian Wychbold from TGS.

[Susan in NC]

Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "I have enjoyed re-visiting all these books. Some are very old friends, whilst others are more like distant acquaintances; but it has been fun to meet up again!

Out of ..."

Lol, glad I’m not the only one - I’m always disheartened when I read my own review, and still don’t remember much of the book!

[Susan in NC]

Teresa wrote: "Quite possible Carol. We like everything rosy in the garden when we're young :)"

So very true! It’s one of my favorites, as well.

[Moloch]

"A Civil Contract" is also (possibly? correct me if I'm wrong) the only novel in which we see the heroine (view spoiler)[get pregnant and have a baby (hide spoiler)]. I remember it took me by surprise because I had always thought that in these books "they fall in love and then everything fades to black". So yes, it's really one of a kind in her production.

[Abigail]

There's one other (view spoiler)[pregnancy (Nell?) but not birth. (hide spoiler)]

[Critterbee❇]

Civil Contract was very real, and didn't hide the less glamorous parts of life (view spoiler)[ like marriage, procreation, bumpy relationships with in-laws (on both Adam and Jenny's sides), and the disillusionment of finding your first love was merely a wispy bundle of passion (hide spoiler)]

[Jackie]

I recall being disappointed with A Civil Contract the first time for the same reason mentioned upthead - it wasn't what I expected.
now I think it's one of her best.

[Abigail]

It's too much of a downer for me, I'm afraid. I read Heyer for happy feelz, not compromise.

[Sheila (in LA)]

Abigail wrote: "It's too much of a downer for me, I'm afraid. I read Heyer for happy feelz, not compromise."

I agree.

As I recall, Heyer's next book (The Nonesuch) has a totally uncomplicated romance. I wondered if she wrote it that way to give herself a break.

[Karlyne]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Civil Contract was very real, and didn't hide the less glamorous parts of life [spoilers removed]"

Love your spoiler! And, yes, it might have started out as a compromise, but spoiler alert...

[Teresa]

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It's too much of a downer for me, I'm afraid. I read Heyer for happy feelz, not compromise."

I agree.

As I recall, Heyer's next book (The Nonesuch) has a totally uncomplicated ro..."

The Nonesuch is my absolute favorite Sheila. I can't count how many times I've read it.

[Sheila (in LA)]

Teresa wrote: "The Nonesuch is my absolute favorite Sheila. I can't count how many times I've read it."



When I think about rereading that one, which I did like, I wonder if Tiffany would be less annoying or more so? I gather she doesn't mar your enjoyment of the book!

[Ah]

Re pregnancy (view spoiler)[ it wasn't Nell, the fact that she hadn't become pregnant was a disappointment to her. Meg in Cotillion was in the early stages of pregnancy, but it didn't stop her partying! I can't think of a pregnant main character. Even those who were married-then-fall in love, because in general the implication was that they weren't sleeping together - Rule/Horry, Sherry / Kitten etc (hide spoiler)]

[Abigail]

One of the last two couples you mentioned was pregnant, I'm pretty sure--can't remember whether it was (view spoiler)[Rule/Horry or Sherry/Kitten, but I think it would have been Rule/Horry. (hide spoiler)]

[Susan in Perthshire]

Abigail wrote: "One of the last two couples you mentioned was pregnant, I'm pretty sure--can't remember whether it was [spoilers removed]"

Neither of those couples was pregnant by the end of the book - or if they were my copies of the books were missing a chapter! 😉

There’s always huge debate each time we discuss The Convenient Marriage as to whether Horry and Rule had even consummated the marriage!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Hi everyone!

This discussion is making me want to read Cotillion - yet again.

Also you can if you want, but there is no need to use spoiler tags for GH books in this particular thread. (see message 1)

[Teresa]

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "Teresa wrote: "The Nonesuch is my absolute favorite Sheila. I can't count how many times I've read it."



When I think about rereading that one, which I did like, I wonder if Tiffany would be less..."

No not really Sheila. She's a royal pain in the bum but I think she's wonderfully written. A character I can truly dislike and still dislike her at the end of the book :):)