WE ARE OPEN - SPOTLIGHTED BOOK - GHOST ON THE THRONE - Week Seven - August 24th, 2020 - August 30th, 2020 - 7. The Fortunes of Eumenes (pages 168 - 196 ) - No Spoilers, please

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

This is the Week Seven non-spoiler thread for the book The Ghost on the Throne: The Death of Alexander the Great and the War for Crown and Empire by James Romm

by James Romm (no photo)

Hello Everyone,

For the week of August 24th - August 30th, we are reading Chapter 7: The Fortunes of Eumenes of Ghost On the Throne by James Romm.

The seventh week's reading assignment is:

WEEK SEVEN - August 24th - August 30th -> 7. The Fortunes of Eumenes (168 - 196)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off July 13th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this selection.

Welcome,

~ Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by James Romm (no photo)

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Also, the citation thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Here is the link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations or other books either non fiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self promotion, please.

Here is the link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - Spoiler Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Link:

by James Romm (no photo)

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Everyone, for the week of August 24th - August 30th, we are reading Chapter 7.

The seventh week's reading assignment is:

WEEK SEVEN - August 24th - August 30th -> 7. The Fortunes of Eumenes (168 - 196)

Chapter Overview and Summary

Chapter 7

With Perdiccas having been killed by three of his officers, Ptolemy was able to make peace with the Macedonian army led by Peithon. News that Craterus had been killed during a battle with Eumenes’ forces caused the army to pass a death sentence on Eumenes.

Adea, Philip III’s wife, as part of the royal family and traveling with the army, made the claim that she and her husband should be in charge of the government, and a large part of the army was with her. When Antipater and his troops arrived, he was seized by part of Adea’s men, who wanted back pay, but he was rescued by Antigonus One-Eye. Order was restored and Antigonus was appointed guardian of the kings and commander-in-chief of the army, with orders to destroy Eumenes.

Eumenes, being an outlaw, was only able to pay his troops by looting and extorting wealthy estates in Anatolia. He hoped to join forces with other disaffected groups of Perdiccas’ army, but the men in charge of these groups couldn’t agree on terms. Antipater left Asia for Europe with the royal family and left Antigonus to deal with Eumenes. They met on the border of Cappadocia near a fortress called Nora, inside which Eumenes fortified himself and 600 of his troops. Eumenes and Antigonus, having been friends, met in person and tried to work out their differences, but it was no use.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Chapter Seven


Diadochi Wars by ManuLaCanette

Discussion Topics and Questions:

1. Were the army and the several generals too split into factions ever to hold the empire together?

2. What did you think of Ptolemy’s having his son and daughter marry each other?

3. Did the Bactrians look so different from the Macedonians that the latter would be prejudiced against Alexander’s half-Bactrian son? In other words, was the dream “written on the complexion and features of Alexander’s son” over? (P. 192)

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

2. What did you think of Ptolemy’s having his son and daughter marry each other?

I was surprised to see that this was an old Persian custom. I had thought it was Egyptian going back centuries. I guess if your son and your daughter each married someone else, their children might plot against each other to take the throne. But even if the married brother and sister had children together, these children could also do plotting. As did the famous Cleopatra VII in Caesar's time.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

3. Did the Bactrians look so different from the Macedonians that the latter would be prejudiced against Alexander’s half-Bactrian son?

It looks from the map that Bactria was in northern India, so Rhoxane would have had dark hair, but not necessarily darkish skin. I don't see that her son would look all that different from his father. I wonder if there was an ancient text somewhere that mentioned something like this.

[Bill]

Vicki wrote: "2. What did you think of Ptolemy’s having his son and daughter marry each other?

I was surprised to see that this was an old Persian custom. I had thought it was Egyptian going back centuries. I g..."
It was a good way to ensure inbreeding. What surprised me was that his successors were not his wife’s (Antipater’s daughter) children. She did bear him sons. I would think they would have a strong claim to the throne.

[Bill]

I am wondering what others think about Ptolemy turning down control of the two kings. It seemed to me a signal that Ptolemy was not interested in ruling Alexander’s empire—just Egypt.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Bill wrote: "I am wondering what others think about Ptolemy turning down control of the two kings. It seemed to me a signal that Ptolemy was not interested in ruling Alexander’s empire—just Egypt."

Exactly, Bill. When you've got wealthy and relatively peaceful Egypt to rule, why mix it up with all those other ambitious guys for the rest of the empire. Plus you're pretty safe with the Nile between you and them.

[Savannah]

1. Yes, Each of the generals, except Eumenes, was driven with a lust for power and would not be able to accept the domination of another. It always amazes me how one man will come along and be able to control a multitude.

2. I wasn't surprised by having sisters and brothers marry each other. It was common in many cultures in ancient times. Persian Zorastrianism promoted incest.

3. Bactria was very close to India so probably they had darker skin than did the Macedonians.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I just changed the painting since the original one didn't have credits.

[Bill]

1. Were the army and the several generals too split into factions ever to hold the empire together?

No one seems to be thinking in terms of what do I need to do to rule the entire empire. Most only think about their current situation—either surviving or being more secure.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Bill wrote: "1. Were the army and the several generals too split into factions ever to hold the empire together?

No one seems to be thinking in terms of what do I need to do to rule the entire empire. Most onl..."

Too true, Bill. Probably what I would do in that situation. If one of the "kings" were really capable of ruling, it might be different.

[Michael]

Vicki wrote: "Exactly, Bill. When you've got wealthy and relatively peaceful Egypt to rule, why mix it up with all those other ambitious guys for the rest of the empire. Plus you're pretty safe with the Nile between you and them. "

I totally agree with Vicki!

[Michael]

1. Were the army and the several generals too split into factions ever to hold the empire together?

I am afraid yes. Maybe this is because all this prolonged conflict (Alexander's campaigns and the Successors' squabbles) turned the army from a "national" one to a professional one. When there is no higher incentive for fighting (eg defending the homeland) all that remains is fighting for money.

[Michael]

2. What did you think of Ptolemy’s having his son and daughter marry each other?

I thought this was a Pharaonic custom and I was surprised to read that was an ancient Persian one. It seems that it conferred a great political advantage at the time.

[Michael]

3. Did the Bactrians look so different from the Macedonians that the latter would be prejudiced against Alexander’s half-Bactrian son? In other words, was the dream “written on the complexion and features of Alexander’s son” over?

I think we can't be sure. However, as ancestry was very important to the ancients, the daughter of an obscure foreign king wouldn't gather much goodwill and if her son was also physically different, eg skin colour, that would certainly alienate many in the homeland.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

For a book which covers such a short period of time - 323 BCE to 316 BCE - there is an amazing amount of characters. I looked on the Internet to see if there was some sort of flow chart which would plot the different alliances and/or enmities among all these people but couldn't find one. I wish I had kept track as I was reading. I'm sure it would look very interesting.

[Michael]

I would like to see such a diagram!

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Michael wrote: "I would like to see such a diagram!"

Maybe there's something in one of your Greek history textbooks from when you went to school.

[Michael]

Vicki wrote: "Michael wrote: "I would like to see such a diagram!"

Maybe there's something in one of your Greek history textbooks from when you went to school."

I am pretty sure there isn't and things haven't changed that much in this aspect since I was a student. We aren't actually taught much about the hellenistic kingdoms of the Diadochi, let alone how they came to be. A casual observer would be excused to think that after Alexander came the Romans! It seems that the wars between Greeks, the double crossing, the scheming, the mercenary nature of the armies of the Successors etc are deemed less than ideal stuff for the national curriculum. :D

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Michael wrote: "It seems that the wars between Greeks, the double crossing, the scheming, the mercenary nature of the armies of the Successors etc are deemed less than ideal stuff for the national curriculum..."

This reminds me of the case that when I studied American history in high school in the 1950's, we didn't learn about the Japanese internment camps during WW II. Too embarrassing, I guess.

[Michael]

Vicki wrote: "This reminds me of the case that when I studied American history in high school in the 1950's, we didn't learn about the Japanese internment camps during WW II. Too embarrassing, I guess."

Same goes here! "Modern" Greek history at school stops abruptly at 1945, the following events (and decades) still too sensitive an issue.

[Marc]

yeah, it seems that, with the loss of the apparently charismatic Alexander, there was no one who could bind them together. Seemed right off the bat Ptolemy thought, I'm gonna just take my piece of the empire and stay there. and did it successfully. thought it was a gutsy move to 'kidnap' Alexander's body, but in his case, it paid off. Probably tough, though when you think about it. A group of successful number 2 people, faced with a sudden loss of the number 1. who takes over? none of us are royalty. and apparently no one really wanted to overthrow the real royals and make their own dynasty. Couple that with, we were all equals under Alexander, now though, I don't want to serve under you. well, I don't want to serve under you, And with no real heir to Alexander, I think it was doomed to fail. This is different than, say, Genghis Khan, another great conqueror, who was able to pass on his reign to his adult sons. Who knows what might have been had Alexander lived long enough to have adult children to pass his reign on to... ah, coulda/woulda/shoulda

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

All, when you complete reading and posting up through page 196 and comment about anything you want to discuss about Chapter 7. The Fortunes of Eumenes , please go to the Week Eight thread.

Here is the link to the Week Eight thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...