The Old Curiosity Club discussion
David Copperfield
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DC, Chp. 01-03
Mod
I am hospitably received by Mr. Peggotty
Chapter 3
Phiz
Text Illustrated:
We were welcomed by a very civil woman in a white apron, whom I had seen curtseying at the door when I was on Ham’s b..."
Kim wrote: "
I am hospitably received by Mr. Peggotty
Chapter 3
Phiz
Text Illustrated:
We were welcomed by a very civil woman in a white apron, whom I had seen curtseying at the door when I was on Ham’s b..."
Kim
Thank you for the illustrations. I always enjoy the commentaries that accompany many of them and, of course, enjoy the Browne illustrations and commentaries the most. There is definitely a great benefit in the “reading” of Browne’s work. Browne enjoyed adding subtle information, commentary and personal touches to his illustrations. In his illustration for “Our Pew in the Church” for example, he has also put his name on a gravestone in the church.
In the original monthly publication of the parts of the novel the illustrations did not appear within the letterpress of the chapter as they do in the novel version of David Copperfield ( and subsequent versions of the novel through history) . This was due to the fact that the process of printing the illustrations did not allow them to be embedded within the actual chapter. Both monthly illustrations appeared before the letterpress of the chapters. Thus, the readers of the monthly parts would see the illustrations before they read the chapters of each part. This means that the illustrations would revel what was going to occur within the chapters.
Because the illustrations would be side by side, many visual comparisons were possible to the initial readers of each part. For example, in the illustrations for chapters 1-3 we can clearly see the large church and the congregation in various modes of attention. Many of the parishioners have their backs to us as the perspective is from the back of the church looking towards the minister. There is also clearly a feeling of the shape and arch of the church present.
In the second of the illustrations Browne radically changes the perspective. Now the viewer is looking forward at the group of characters whose happy and attentive faces are all focussed on little David. Again we have the arches of the house which suggest the arches of the church. As noted, there is no text proof that the Peggotty home is an upturned boat. That is Browne’s creation. I think it is perfect in that the comparison of the illustrations, side by side to the original reader, would suggest the contrast between the large, cold image of the church with its variously engaged congregation to the warm, embracing and smiling attention of the Peggotty’s. This perspective would interest the initial readers very clearly. Coldness verses warmth. Lack of attention in the church to a focussed family on David. Lastly, in the first image we have Murdstone paying attention to David’s mother and not solely for reasons of love. In the second Illustration there is a family warmly welcoming David who is seated as the Peggotty family encircle him with love.
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
Mod
David Copperfield and his mother
Jessie Willcox Smith
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David and Little Em'ly
Chapter 3
Gilbert Scott Wright
Illustration for The Children's Dickens
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Little Em'ly and I
Chapter 3
Frank Reynolds
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David and Little Em'ly for the very last time I hope
Chapter 3
Arthur A. Dixon
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David Copperfield and his mother
Jessie Willcox Smith"
Oh my, I think this illustration is way over the top.
Peter wrote: "Oh my, I think this illustration is way over the top."I agree. Smith is best known for her paintings of cherubic children, so it doesn't surprise me that she portrayed David's mother as so young and innocent. But it did serve to remind me of Clara's tender years and lack of much worldly experience. David's father was much older than Clara, and she had no father of her own. And it's the Victorian age; I'm sure she feels quite lost without a man to protect and provide for her and David. This portrayal reminds me of all that, and makes me a bit more forgiving about her getting her head turned by the duplicitous Murdstone.
But as Tristam pointed out, this is quite a collection of rosy-cheeked, golden-curled children, and the one of David and his mother is among the most extreme of the bunch! My teeth rot a little bit just looking at it. (Which is too bad since, as you know, I quite like her portrayal of Pegotty.)
Mod
I agree. Smith is best known for her paintings of cherubic children, so it doesn't surprise me that she portrayed David's mothe..."
This illustration is silly, I don't know what the artist had in mind but David's mother looks like she's about twelve and I certainly hope she doesn't dress like this every day. She couldn't do any housework or baking or gardening dressed like that so I'm at a loss as to what she does all day. Curls her hair I suppose.
Mod
That's a good start. Keep on agreeing with me, and you'll be right more often ;-)
Mod
The gift that led Dickens to give up his treasured copy of David Copperfield:
The superstitious nature of Britain's greatest writer has come ..."
A nice story, and it shows in many ways that even Dickens was, after all, only human. It must be wonderful to have a hand-signed book by Dickens as a family heirloom, even if it is not worth a mint of money - who cares for the money, because after all, no one in their right senses would sell a book like that anyway.
As to "brook" in sentences like "He does not brook her criticism", the verb seems to be predominantly used in negative sentences. If it is related with the German word "brauchen", which means "need", this would make sense, because then it would read "He does not need her criticism". But since Dickens said to Mr. Brookes of Sheffield that the name just popped into his head, all my beautiful theories as to "Sheffield" and "Brooks" are null and void.
Mod
Oh I love all this research, discovery, and sharing. It really enhances our reading and makes me appreciate every book we do all the more. So thank you. ... and keep it up...."
I'm looking forward to your theory, Peter!
Mod
I must get my son to play this polka on his guitar :-)
Mod
I agree. Smith is best known for her paintings of cherubic children, so it doesn't surprise me that she portra..."
From what I gather of David's mother, she probably did not do a lot of housework, anyway, but still, the woman in the illustration is ridiculously young.
Mod
Little Em'ly and I
Chapter 3
Frank Reynolds"
I like this illustration of David's running after Emily, trying to catch her because it seems to foreshadow later events, which I will, of course, not reveal here. But we might want to keep this picture in mind.
I don't like David's mother either, but I also pity her. Indeed, she's very young, and she probably didn't expect to live without a husband so soon. On the other hand, if she was an orphan and poor before, what made her so vain? Could the short period of courtship with the deceased David Copperfield have done that to her, or was she like that before, even when she had to work for probably way less than the 100 pounds a year she has now? She wouldn't have had the money to buy a new parasol then either, but it could provide a reason why she was so bent on her looks: she has come a long way, and now she is a 'real lady' she wants to look the part too. To me she comes across like a lot of people I saw when I still had to go to the food pantry for food; spending too much on f.i. their hair or fake nails, but 'at least we look good', while meanwhile it showed that they were from a culture were the hair was too blonde and the nails too fake, if you know what I mean. I wonder if that is what attracted Murdstone to her, her inexperience in all things ladylike must have been noticeable.
I always consider if the first person narration makes him less reliable. Are we more apt to believe an omniscient narrator who seems to have no biases in the way they present us the story? However, as was mentioned, it’s more intimate. Maybe we get more details and a clearer look into certain things? Is it a trade off? Is it worth the trade? For me it depends on the narrator and their character. Were Scrooge to narrate his own story it would look a lot different than if Bob Crachet or Fred were to narrate. Imagine if we had Peggoty narrate even some of the first chapters or friends narrate his later adolescent life. It would be a very different story!
Mod
I'd say that every first-person-narrator is unrealiable to a certain extent, but at the same time, whenever Dickens uses the third-person-narrator, he makes sure that we see the characters the way he wants us to see them by the use of his metaphors and similes. Apart from that, Dickens's omniscient narrators quite often include remarks of their own, moralizations and judgments, but unlike in David Copperfield, they are usually from an adult, more mature standpoint. Saying this, I ought to bear in mind that David as the narrator has also become adult and only tries to relive his childhood memories. They are therefore a mixture of the feelings of the child and the reflexions of the man.
Ashley wrote: "I always consider if the first person narration makes him less reliable. Are we more apt to believe an omniscient narrator who seems to have no biases in the way they present us the story? However,..."It would have been fun to have Dickens do one of those novels where the same story is told from two points of view. In the case of Copperfield I think we could all write Peggoty's side of the story. But Murdstone and Clara's stories might have been very insightful.
As for Fred and Bob in A Christmas Carol, Dickens was, once again, masterful, in that he let us in on their points of view by allowing Scrooge to eavesdrop, as it were, from the shadows. Both are remarkably Good People for showing pity and not grumbling about him behind his back, as their wives do! (And as I would...)
Jantine wrote: "meanwhile it showed that they were from a culture where the hair was too blonde and the nails too fake, if you know what I mean..."Reminds me of my visit to Graceland, which was lavish, but very tacky. Money doesn't always translate to good taste. This observation really does make me wonder what Murdstone saw in Clara. He wasn't getting a lot of money, especially with a stepson to support. And she didn't have any lineage to brag about. She has shown herself to be vain, and the comments of the other men show that she was considered to be physically appealing, and he must have thought she was easily controlled and would be suitable arm candy. What a skunk.
Mod
Yes. The Point of View is an essential part of the narrative that we must always keep in mind as we read. How right the comments are here on how the novel would be different depending on the narrator.
What I am finding fascinating is how Dickens weaves this story from multiple points of view of David that range from his age, his circumstance, his bias, his emotional state of mind and his reflective mind.
Well, for those who did not read along with D&S: my mother is from a fisherman's family in a town that could be compared to Brighton in some ways, but then Dutch. So I know a little about how life would be for the Peggotty-family. I mentioned one great-grandmother, and today a post was shared on facebook, with a text about another great-grandmother (including a picture of her no less). It might prove some insight, so I'll translate it too. (The original writer is my granddad's cousin, so it was his own grandmother too btw).
https://www.facebook.com/de.elektrisc...
An old fisherman's wife
On the wall hangs, above her head in brown cross stiches on a white background, a text that is immensely applicable to the shrewd little woman sitting in front of me. The first sentence reads: "Thank You for this morning..." and her little eyes will certainly fall upon it often.
And I reckon she will certainly agree with the content, it is quite something to be eight-and-eighty years old, and have a sharp mind, be in moderately good health and content with the achievements of these times. Did you ever meet someone who worked five-and-seventy years? Well, here you will read about one, about Anna, the daughter of Arie Vrolijk and Annetje Westerduin, who beheld the light of day on January 31st 1893 at the Zeilstraat (Sail street) and who from her first year until her marriage grew up in one of the almshouses of the old Weststraat. "No, they did not spoil me," Anna Bal-Vrolijk says, "Oh no, absolutely not." And she tells about her youth, as a child living on the margins of poverty, confronted with the fight for the daily bread, which is a customary sight for a common family from Scheveningen in this time. How did people live in these times, how did they provide food while the father was often gone to see for two months at a time? What did they ete in these times? Who can tell us better than then the little daughter from the fisherman's family Vrolijk who would become the wife of Jan-Leen Bal and mother of ten children?
"Well, now listen, we bought unions for two cents and they were boiled with the potatoes and that were the vegetables. Then I had to buy an ounce of fat at De Groot at the Keizerstraat and half of that fat was cut off and put in a little pan to melt. When the potatoes were boiled, the water from boiling them was poured into the pan of molten fat and that was the gravy and then you feasted, because as a child you were always hungry. On anothe day you bought 3 cents worth of beetroots with an onion for our mother..."
"And no meat to go with it?"
"Meat, of course not, meat while your father was at sea? That was not done! You only ate meat when your father had come home from sea. At Sundays you sometimes ate bacon, and that was a luxury! At Mondays you had a panfish, the leftovers of the Sunday meal, and red cabbage with bokkem (a type of fish), grits, peas and beans."
She talks about the court of little almshouses where they lived, houses packed close together with as a common denominator the poverty and misguided pride, the only property the poor had. You should know that in these times these houses had no kitchens, and the washing-up was done outdoors. That happened at the front of the little house in front of an opened window, in a bucket of warm water in which you did a handfull of soda. The clean dishes coming out of the bucket were put on the table indoors through the open window, and there you were, neighbour next to neighbour, doing your dishes." And now this misguided pride: there were families in the court who were so poor that they sometimes could not have dinner. To keep up appearances, a bucket still was brought outside, and pots and pans were cleaned in which neither potatoes nor vegetables were cooked, for fancy that the neighbours would know you were that poor!
©2020 Piet Spaans
historical publicist and author
https://www.facebook.com/de.elektrisc...
An old fisherman's wife
On the wall hangs, above her head in brown cross stiches on a white background, a text that is immensely applicable to the shrewd little woman sitting in front of me. The first sentence reads: "Thank You for this morning..." and her little eyes will certainly fall upon it often.
And I reckon she will certainly agree with the content, it is quite something to be eight-and-eighty years old, and have a sharp mind, be in moderately good health and content with the achievements of these times. Did you ever meet someone who worked five-and-seventy years? Well, here you will read about one, about Anna, the daughter of Arie Vrolijk and Annetje Westerduin, who beheld the light of day on January 31st 1893 at the Zeilstraat (Sail street) and who from her first year until her marriage grew up in one of the almshouses of the old Weststraat. "No, they did not spoil me," Anna Bal-Vrolijk says, "Oh no, absolutely not." And she tells about her youth, as a child living on the margins of poverty, confronted with the fight for the daily bread, which is a customary sight for a common family from Scheveningen in this time. How did people live in these times, how did they provide food while the father was often gone to see for two months at a time? What did they ete in these times? Who can tell us better than then the little daughter from the fisherman's family Vrolijk who would become the wife of Jan-Leen Bal and mother of ten children?
"Well, now listen, we bought unions for two cents and they were boiled with the potatoes and that were the vegetables. Then I had to buy an ounce of fat at De Groot at the Keizerstraat and half of that fat was cut off and put in a little pan to melt. When the potatoes were boiled, the water from boiling them was poured into the pan of molten fat and that was the gravy and then you feasted, because as a child you were always hungry. On anothe day you bought 3 cents worth of beetroots with an onion for our mother..."
"And no meat to go with it?"
"Meat, of course not, meat while your father was at sea? That was not done! You only ate meat when your father had come home from sea. At Sundays you sometimes ate bacon, and that was a luxury! At Mondays you had a panfish, the leftovers of the Sunday meal, and red cabbage with bokkem (a type of fish), grits, peas and beans."
She talks about the court of little almshouses where they lived, houses packed close together with as a common denominator the poverty and misguided pride, the only property the poor had. You should know that in these times these houses had no kitchens, and the washing-up was done outdoors. That happened at the front of the little house in front of an opened window, in a bucket of warm water in which you did a handfull of soda. The clean dishes coming out of the bucket were put on the table indoors through the open window, and there you were, neighbour next to neighbour, doing your dishes." And now this misguided pride: there were families in the court who were so poor that they sometimes could not have dinner. To keep up appearances, a bucket still was brought outside, and pots and pans were cleaned in which neither potatoes nor vegetables were cooked, for fancy that the neighbours would know you were that poor!
©2020 Piet Spaans
historical publicist and author
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Mod
How moving about the bucket that was seen by others but had held no food for the family.
Thank you for sharing this part of your family history with us.
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I must get my son to play this polka on his guitar :-)"
Make sure you record it, I want to hear it.
Mod
If I'm going to narrate the story of my life it isn't going to last long, I remember almost nothing about it at all. Or anything else for that matter. :-)
Mod
Whether sea-going people were short of money about that time, or were short of faith and preferred cork jackets, I don’t know; all I know is, that there was but one solitary bidding, and that was from an attorney connected with the bill-broking business, who offered two pounds in cash, and the balance in sherry, but declined to be guaranteed from drowning on any higher bargain. Consequently the advertisement was withdrawn at a dead loss—for as to sherry, my poor dear mother’s own sherry was in the market then—and ten years afterwards, the caul was put up in a raffle down in our part of the country,
First question, what does it mean "my poor dear mother's own sherry was in the market then", does she sell sherry? The next question, how do you make sherry? I can't name even one ingredient.
Mod
The doctor having been upstairs and come down again, and having satisfied himself, I suppose, that there was a probability of this unknown lady and himself having to sit there, face to face, for some hours, laid himself out to be polite and social. He was the meekest of his sex, the mildest of little men. He sidled in and out of a room, to take up the less space. He walked as softly as the Ghost in Hamlet, and more slowly. He carried his head on one side, partly in modest depreciation of himself, partly in modest propitiation of everybody else. It is nothing to say that he hadn’t a word to throw at a dog. He couldn’t have thrown a word at a mad dog. He might have offered him one gently, or half a one, or a fragment of one; for he spoke as slowly as he walked; but he wouldn’t have been rude to him, and he couldn’t have been quick with him, for any earthly consideration.
I had a feeling he was based on a real person, I don't know why, so I looked him up and found this:
In the number plans for the novel, Dr. Chillip is called Dr. Morgan. The Dickens family doctor at Devonshire Terrace was a Dr.Charles Morgan, 9 Bedford Row, Russell Square, London; so perhaps Dr. Chillip was based on a real person. Charles Dickens Jr. said:
"There were, not many years ago, plenty of people...who had a close acquaintance with Mr. Chillip, the meek little doctor. And yet Mr. Chillip was sketched from our family medical attendant in the old Devonshire Terrace days and never had anything to do with Suffolk."
Kim wrote: "Ashley wrote: "I always consider if the first person narration makes him less reliable. Are we more apt to believe an omniscient narrator who seems to have no biases in the way they present us the ..."I relate to this so much. Haha. I'm glad I don't have to do this. When I was 18 (I'm 34 now) I was in a car accident, which resulted in fractures in my jaw, spine, and pelvis. I was also knocked out, which resulted in losing my memory of that entire day and splotchy memory of the weeks before. I also don't have a memory of the next few days after waking up and spotty memory for a few weeks. Now I can remember things in a more normal way, but my capacity is greatly decreased. I read so much and cannot remember the details, unless there is a strong emotional connection. I don't remember a lot of my childhood. Mostly emotional memories, so not the parts I want to write about (kids teasing me and boys I thought I loved- silly stuff).
Cool about the doctor!I did not start on time, so I am catching up this week so I'll be with you. Chapter 3 is where we really get a good (though short) look at Clara. Some have said they feel for her. I agree. But it's also hard, as a mother, to understand. She does not stand up for her son. She may not realize that in not standing up for herself, she's not standing up for her son. But there are obvious ways she could protect him. It's hard to understand how a mother allows this. But at the same time, because I cannot understand it, I empathize with it. There is something going on there. She is so young and naive, but also probably depressed and unaware due to lack of education and experience. So many things that could be going on. The end scene of this chapter is so sad. Peggoty waits until the last possible moment and then tells David of the marriage. When he goes inside, his mother cannot even approach him at first due to the overwhelming presence of Mr Murdstone. And then when David does approach her, she is awkward and doesn't speak. Only Mr Murdstone speaks after the return to the house. His mother is just there and such a sad character. Pegotty is more of a mother. So at least David has a mother figure in his life.
I brought up depression. I love to see how mental illness is dealt with in classic literature. Persuasion was the first novel I really started noticing it in and now always take note. Clara has no support, no resources. Even if she knew what was going on (which she never will because she has no one to teach her or point it out to her), she has no idea how to get help or what to do. It's worse than living in a time when mental illness was very unknown and not talked about, but she personally is isolated and helpless.
I really like the comparison between the house on the boat, with a cobbled together happy family, and the rookery, with the family that has so many problems and has just had a big change, which is not for the good. David's relationship with Emily connects him there, and maybe the reader should consider their homes and backgrounds when reading of any future correspondence or meetings they have. I like when things have context, and this gives any future involving the 2 of them some context.
Mod
Whether sea-going people were short of money about that time, or were short of faith and preferred cork jackets, I..."
Kim
That’s a good question about the sherry. I’m finding many words, phrases and sayings in this novel to be puzzling. That said, I think it’s because I’m reading it from a 21C point of view.
Could it mean that there were people who made/mixed their own sherry and then offered it for sale? We often read of characters mixing a bowl of punch. Maybe making sherry was a cottage industry?
Mod
I did not start on time, so I am catching up this week so I'll be with you. Chapter 3 is where we really get a good (though short) look at Clara. Some have said they feel fo..."
Hi Ashley
I agree with your detailed comments on David’s mother. While she may be portrayed as weak on one level, I have much sympathy for her as well. She is young, an orphan and I believe wanted to do best for her son but was overwhelmed with reality. Her husband dies before she gives birth. She is courted by an obviously scheming and malevolent man who brings his ironclad sister into the hunt.
Indeed, Peggotty is more a mother to David than his own mother. What we see is the fact that Peggotty is also willing to stand by David’s mother after she marries Murdstone and David is sent away. Thus she takes on the role as a mother figure and protector to David’s mother as well.
Peggotty is one of my favourite characters in the novel. In these Covid times I think most of us would welcome a button-bursting hug from her.
Kim wrote: "I have a question, okay, I have two questions. In the first chapter it says this:
Whether sea-going people were short of money about that time, or were short of faith and preferred cork jackets, I..."
I might be wrong, but I had the idea that his mother might still have had a stash of sherry from before his father died - like, he drank the stuff - and she tried to sell that stash (wether it was one bottle or a lot of them is not said) she had lying around from better times to get a bit of extra money, just like she tried to get some money out of the caulk. Even if she tried to sell one or two bottles (or casks) that were once bought by her late husband, it would be weird to get more when you are trying to (and can't) sell what you already have of it. I saw it more like the bottles of Madeira in D&S, it was bought at a certain point and perhaps worth some money, but only if you find a buyer. That sherry was offered in return for the caulk, which was not worth a lot of money, while Clara tried to sell hers, probably just meant to say the sherry was not worth anything. I didn't get the idea they were making it themselves though.
Whether sea-going people were short of money about that time, or were short of faith and preferred cork jackets, I..."
I might be wrong, but I had the idea that his mother might still have had a stash of sherry from before his father died - like, he drank the stuff - and she tried to sell that stash (wether it was one bottle or a lot of them is not said) she had lying around from better times to get a bit of extra money, just like she tried to get some money out of the caulk. Even if she tried to sell one or two bottles (or casks) that were once bought by her late husband, it would be weird to get more when you are trying to (and can't) sell what you already have of it. I saw it more like the bottles of Madeira in D&S, it was bought at a certain point and perhaps worth some money, but only if you find a buyer. That sherry was offered in return for the caulk, which was not worth a lot of money, while Clara tried to sell hers, probably just meant to say the sherry was not worth anything. I didn't get the idea they were making it themselves though.
Mod
Dostoevsky grasped the power of the English writer's artistic vision; he called him a "great Christian," admiring especially Dickens's humbler characters. Moreover, the basis for Dostoevsky's assimilation of Dickens's style and vision was Dickens's treatment of the theme about the need for the reconstitution of society, and especially for the wealthy and powerful to display a greater humanitarianism towards that society's less privileged. As David Gervais remarks, "Dostoevsky saw a poetic spirituality beyond Dickens's morality". As Dickens determined to be their voice in Great Britain, so Dostoevsky determined to be their voice in Russia.
Before treating the issues of creative assimilation of Dickens's manner and substance in Dostoevsky's works (1860-70), we should mention the external evidence of the Russian writer's passionate interest in emulating Dickens's genius. The period 1850-60 was crucial in Dostoevsky's creative assimilation of the spirit and style of Dickens's works. Dostoevsky's creative development was forcibly interrupted by four years of Siberian exile in Omsk "ostrog" (prison) between 1850 and 1854 and a further five years of relative isolation from mainstream culture spent in the Semipalatinsk settlement (1854-59). During this decade the Russian writer was alienated from the social and literary processes at work in Russia's cultural centres, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Even during this period of exile, however, we can detect his voracious interest in Dickens. In his book of remembrances and memoirs about Dostoevsky's exile, M. Nikitin presents anecdotal evidence; for example, M. Nikitin remarks that, "after his Siberian imprisonment in Semipalatinsk, Dostoevsky read Dickens's novels by candlelight while often on the verge of tears" (Nikitin 172).
The result of Dostoevsky's fascination with Dickens one can find in Memoirs by Petr Martjanov, who was in military service in Omsk 'ostrog' at the time of Dostoevsky's exile. According to Martjanov's reminiscences, Dostoevsky in his Siberian sojourn "refused to read the books brought to him even by young people, and only twice developed his indulged his imaginative needs by reading David Copperfield and The Posthumous Papers of Pickwick Club in translations by Irinarch Vvedensky" (Martyanov, 2: 450).
Mod
I have always wanted to introduce into our house a wonderful birthday tradition of mine, which has no antecendent in years, though, namely this: The family gather around me after a sumptuous lunch and listen to me, as I, sitting in the most comfortable armchair and equipped with a tumbler and a selection of pipes, commence the story of my life and the setting forth of my opinions. It might only be a matter of a couple of hours, but it would be a valuable employ of everyone's time, wouldn't it? :-)
Mod
I'll start with your second question: Sherry is Andalusian white wine which is blended with spirits and then left for a while. So, it's basic ingredients are Andalusian grapes. - It's very delicious, by the way.
First question: I understood that the bidder wanted to pay only a part of the sum in money, and the rest in kindred, i.e. in sherry. The deal not being struck, the sherry was still in the market, i.e. for sale.
Mod
Dostoevsky grasped the power of the English writer's artistic vision; he called him a "great Christian," admiring especially Dickens's humbler cha..."
It makes sense, then, that D. and D. are two of my favourite writers. Dickens strikes me as one of the few Victorian writers who also focus on people below the middle classes in their novels. When some others do, like Trollope, there is quite often a paternalistic undertone present and the characters in question are often side characters. In Dickens, however, this is not the case. I am reading Frankenstein now, and there is this peasant family the creature eavesdrops on - interestingly, it turns out that this family is of noble origins, a plot element that to me seems to have no other reason but the author's idea that it would just not do to write about "common" people to that extent.
Tolstoy shares this snobistic attitude, but Dostoevsky, indeed, doesn't, and in that he is like Dickens.
Mod
Have your wife call me, I'd like to ask her what she thinks of the gather the family around you idea. And does her turn come next?
Tristam- why is Dostoyevsky a favorite? I read Brothers K and it was so strange. I think it’s one that needs massive processing and maybe multiple rereads. There’s just so much there. For some reason Tolstoy is easier to follow in regards to what he thinks and what he’s conveying. Not that either is better at conveying a story, just at the message or personal beliefs....maybe. I’m not even sure how to articulate it. Dostoyevsky definitely gets more into the mind of the characters, which I usually enjoy, having studied psychology in college. But Brothers K was strange. Haha. Not sure how else to say it. I’d love to be convinced to go beyond that and try more. But I am hesitant knowing that’s the favorite of many Dostoyevsky lovers. But this connection is fascinating! It makes me think- who is writing this fictional social commentary of our time? We don’t publish works of fiction in widely circulated papers or similar, so maybe it wouldn’t have the same effect to argue for change that way. But are we missing out by not having that? Or by not being aware that it is happening? And does it affect us or does it simply mean that we won’t have anything like that to pass on? Are we happy with the literature we do have to pass on?
Mod
Hi Ashley, Dostoyevsky is also a favorite of mine, and I'm sure why. Maybe it's because he can pull me into the story and while reading it I forget everything else, that's what Dickens does but he pulls me into a much happier place. :-) And I do think it takes multiple rereads, but I think the same of Dickens. As for the serial reading, I would have lost my mind waiting for the next month. :-)
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In 1910, Robert Falcon Scott and his men set out on the Terra Nova expedition to Antarctica, in order to reach the South Pole. In 1912, Scott split his group in two. The Northern Party was established to do additional geological work while Scott ventured south towards the pole. In the winter of 1912, the Northern Party became stranded, as the increase in sea ice meant they could not be picked up by a ship as had been planned. Instead, the men built themselves an ice cave, which became their home for several months. The men faced challenging conditions, as the party’s clothes were too thin to keep them warm, and they had very little food. Conditions were cramped and the cave was only 5 foot, 6 inches tall so none of the men could even stand up straight inside.
Raymond E Priestley was a member of the Northern Party and wrote a book about their experiences. After dinner every night, one man would read aloud from the three books they had with them. One of them was a copy of David Copperfield, alongside The Life of Stevenson, and Simon the Jester. Priestley recalled how they read one chapter each night for over sixty days. As Dickens had written the book in monthly parts, the building tension and cliff-hangers helped to entertain the men and distract them from their hardship. When they had finished David Copperfield, Priestley wrote that the men were ‘very sorry to part with him’. They finished all three books and even read the Review of Reviews cover to cover, including the advertisements. At the end of September 1912, the party left their ice cave and managed to make it back to base camp by the beginning of November. The copy of David Copperfield made this journey with them and was gifted to a seaman who had served with Scott when the party eventually returned to New Zealand.
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“”Peggotty!” repeated Miss Betsey, wit..."
I loved that, even though it did have me sitting here thinking of all the strange names I've heard. A few days ago my granddaughter asked me if I liked my name, I told her it was okay, I'd never thought about it. I asked why and she said it seemed so weird, she never knew anyone else with a name like mine. I will take that to mean my name has gone out of fashion. :-)
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Not me, he's been Turd-stone for a long, long time.
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Of course, it is everyone's turn on their birthday. But since I am the eldest here, my story would take longest - and I don't call myself Tristram Shandy for nothing.
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Ashley,
I can't say anything with regard to your last questions because I rarely read any contemporary literature seeing that there are either writers who tell a story but lack style or, worse, writers who don't tell anything interesting but do that in a plethora of words and forced imagery.
About Dostoevsky, I adore him because strictly speaking you could spend years reading a book like The Brothers Karamasov or Crime and Punishment again and again and you would always find something new to think about. Saying that, as Karamasov was his final work and the most complex, and therefore I can understand the feelings you voiced about it. Don't give up on D. but read some of his earlier works. With the exception of The Idiot I can recommend every single one: There is psychological insight, humour, the insight into the darkness of life, everything that would keep me reading for hours without end.
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In 1910, Robert Falcon Scott and his men set out on the Terra Nova expedition to Antar..."
Thanks for that wonderful story, Kim! That is what I call ardent - pardon the pun - Dickensmania.
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“”Peggotty!” repeated Mi..."
As Mr. Omer says, or will say next Sunday, things come into fashion and go out of it. There is a revival of many names and I always wonder how the poor souls whose parents have given them trendy names - in Germany, English names were en vogue for a while - will feel when they are old and their grandchildren will wonder at their names. Interestingly, there was hardly a question over which my wife and I had so many discussions as the names of our children.
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That's for sure.
Oh I love all this research, discovery, and sharing. It really enhances our reading and makes me appreciate every book we do all the more. So thank you. ... and keep it up. : -). I will have, I hope, an interesting discovery for all of you in terms of words in Chapter 22. Now is that a distant tease or what?