Dickensians! discussion
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Discussions About Our Next Main Group read
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Thanks Judy - I was trying to remember where I'd heard of Memoirs of Joseph Grimaldi, and then thought, it is in our side read of The Life of Charles Dickens: The Illustrated Edition, I think.
Jean, I remember struggling with Our Mutual Friend with the Curiosities. It was my first read. But in looking back and reflecting on it, I came to better appreciate it and consider it one of his finest works. Norrie Epstein, in her book about Dickens, considers it his most modern novel.
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But I do know you've read lots about Charles Dickens himself. Somehow, you (and here I mean "one" - anyone!) have to "lead yourself gradually" into the way he writes and thinks, otherwise you miss a lot, which is a shame. And for that, his earlier novels are better - in my opinion anyway :) An exception to this though is Great Expectations, which could be read and thoroughly enjoyed as a first read, even though it is a late novel. That's because for this one, Charles Dickens had deliberately clarified his technique, due to his readers' demands.
I haven't read Norrie Epstein's book, but agree about the "modern" aspect in some ways, especially for the character who begins the book (view spoiler), thinking of her storyline. The end of her story I found quite startling in a Victorian novel!
Bionic Jean wrote: "Judy wrote: "Hope you enjoy it, Jean. :)"Thanks Judy - I was trying to remember where I'd heard of Memoirs of Joseph Grimaldi, and then thought, it is in our side read of [book:The..."
I remember there is lots about Grimaldi in Dickens's letters - he spent loads of time working on it. Some sections are better than others (the ones where it is suddenly all in Dickens's style and has Pickwick type plots cropping up!)
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Martin Chuzzlewit - 5
The Pickwick Papers - 3-2= 1
Dombey and Son - 6
Little Dorrit - 7
Our Mutual Friend - 2
Great Expectations - 3
Bleak House - 5-2= 3
The Old Curiosity Shop - 2-1= 1
Barnaby Rudge - 1
I'll set up a poll with the top three :) Thanks all!
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February 2021 may seem a long way off yet, but as it will be a long read, it's nice to be prepared :) We have short reads in place for December and January, led by various lovely members, but here's your chance to say which of Charles Dickens's novels you would like to read next with the group.
The poll will be a little different from most groups' polls as we have just 13 main novels by Charles Dickens to choose from this time (as we've recently read David Copperfield and Little Dorrit). So please feel free to use this thread to discuss freely which you'd like to read or re-read, and I'll compile a poll from the general feeling after a few days, when it's clear which books come up repeatedly.
A NOTE - If you haven't join in our main group reads before, please be aware that we will take our read of the novel slowly. Many have commented how satisfying they have found this "chapter a day" approach, so we'll stick to it :) You can read it however you wish, of course, but comments here in the threads will be at the rate of one chapter a day.
Also, since some have found it's easy to slip behind, for whatever reason, this time we'll try having a daily break between the installments (which usually means every three or four days). A little breather may help, without impeding the flow. This way it will not be the same day each week, which is good as we all have different "busy/free days". It will also give us a chance to see how the original readers experienced the serial, although we will only have to wait one day, whereas they waited a whole month!
So suggestions are welcome here. Please say what you would like to read - or what you would not - and you can say up to three or four if you like! Thanks.
Hello to Jean and everyone here. I have not been reading much fiction lately, so my Dickens’s reading has been quiet.
I hope to restart my reading when either Hard Times or Bleak House becomes a main group read. I have not read either book and look forward to reading either of them in the future.
Thus my vote is for Hard Times or Bleak House.
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Good to see you! We've missed your comments. Reading is tricky for many at the moment - and a refuge for others. We do live in strange times ...
Anyway, please do pop into the other threads now and then :) And I'll start a tally chart in the next post.
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Hard Times III
(Bleak House
The Old Curiosity Shop III
Dombey and Son
Great Expectations
Oliver Twist
The Pickwick Papers III
The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickelby
Our Mutual Friend
Martin Chuzzlewit II
A Tale of Two Cities I
Barnaby Rudge I
NAYS:
Martin Chuzzlewit I
Great Expectations III
Our Mutual Friend I
A Tale of Two Cities II
Hard Times I
Bleak House I
The Old Curiosity Shop I
Oliver Twist I
Sounds good, Jean, and thank you. Years ago, I bought the rather massive trade paperback for Bleak House and then just looked at it on the shelf — also for years.
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I'm leaning more towards the early ones, as a contrast from the complexity of the middle ones, but would be more than happy to read anything :)
I would most like to read:The Old Curiosity Shop
Dombey and Son
Will always be happy to read: Great Expectations
Hoping it won't be, but will read if it is (I know I need to tackle it again someday, but I confess I did not enjoy Dickens in America the way I enjoy Dickens in England):
Martin Chuzzlewit
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I would like to read: Bleak House. I'm not sure if I can join the next read but I will read the book later.
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Bionic Jean wrote: "Thanks Nisa! And thank you too for all your work on the links every day :)"Thanks, Jean. I'm happy if it's helpful :). And Thanks a lot for your summaries. They are great and make the read more enjoyable and easy to understand. And even if I miss the group read they are always there to help me :))
I would like to nominate:The Pickwick Papers
Oliver Twist
The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickelby
Thanks!
Domby and Son or Hard Times are my votes!
I'm not interested in these three because I've reread them in the last few years:Great Expectations
Our Mutual Friend
A Tale of Two Cities
Any of the other titles are welcome choices.
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Nisa, yes good; they are a really good anchor. I was amazed that we all managed to keep to a daily changeover. People have been so very careful :)
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Bionic Jean wrote: "Well we've come to the end of Little Dorrit and have "Dickensians!" plans in place for December and January. Would you like to say what you would like to read next? February 2021 may..."
I love your slower method, Jean. It worked perfectly for me! I am going to vote for Bleak House also.
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The day break in between instalments is a great idea!I would love to read Our Mutual Friend or Martin Chuzzlewit.
I would nay Hard Times because I didn’t like it.
Sorry, I've had a few distractions in life lately and have fallen behind, but I would like to join in with Dombey and Son or Bleak House.
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I hope all is well :)
I have posted this to another thread by mistake, but my vote goes for "Dombey and Son".
I would like add an aye to Oliver Twist, since I haven't read it and own a copy of it (somewhere around here).
I'm hesitating a bit on nominating because I haven't finished Little Dorrit yet. I do hope to do so before the New Year. I would like to second Dombey & Son, as well as Great Expectations.
D&S is new to me and GE is a favorite.
Jean, you listed Oliver Twist twice in the Aye list in post 63. Not sure if one should be in the Nay list or whether it was accidently listed twice as an Aye.
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The history, for those who are not sure, is that I chose our first group read of David Copperfield, partly because I thought it appeals to everyone, and also because it was Charles Dickens's own "favourite child" :)
Our second main group read was chosen via this thread, so those who had already read with us had more of a "voice", but the final selection was made by a poll to all group members. I did not participate in either selection, and was happy with the choice of Little Dorrit.
I'm conscious now though that it might be better to have another contrast. David Copperfield and Little Dorrit are very different books, in mood, and in the style of the author's writing and concerns. There is an exuberance in David Copperfield, which reminds us of his early works such as The Pickwick Papers or Nicholas Nickleby. This is not present in the later works, such as Little Dorrit (his 11th novel).
Little Dorrit and Bleak House are similar in several ways. The most obvious is the satirical elements: the description of the Circumlocution Office is almost a rerun of his description of the farcical Courts of Chancery in Bleak House. They are both brilliant creations, but do we want to read them straight after one another?
Both are extraordinarily complex novels; both are a little sombre, bitter and facetious in parts. There are other parallels, and they are such exceptional and enjoyable works that I certainly don't want to put anyone off reading them! However I'm not sure that now, with a world still in the grip of Covid, is a good time to do a slow read of Bleak House.
So could we pencil it in for our final group read of 2021, please? I'm pretty sure that lots of us will still want to read it then, and it won't be forgotten!
I do think we should be perhaps looking towards the beginning of his career - or the mood of the book we choose - rather than the end. There are exceptions, though. Great Expectations for example was a late novel - but a deliberate attempt by Charles Dickens to reduce the complexity and have a more streamlined story line. And there are still lots of surprises!
Perhaps it will help if I post a list of his novels, in order of their writing, here:
The Pickwick Papers
Oliver Twist
Nicholas Nickleby
The Old Curiosity Shop
Barnaby Rudge
Martin Chuzzlewit
Dombey and Son
(Bleak House)
Hard Times
A Tale of Two Cities
Great Expectations
Our Mutual Friend
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (unfinished)
Is this OK? I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much! As I say, we have only been talking about this for one day, so plenty of others may come in. Please feel free to say what you think, and add more to what you have chosen, if you like.
For me (I'll nail my colours to the mast!) a perfect antidote to the doldrums is Nicholas Nickleby (I'll add it) - but there are plenty of others which would be great, either :)
I agree with you Jean, that although Bleak House is terrific, it is in several ways similar to Little Dorrit. (Autocorrect on tablet wanted to change that to Doritos!) I have read them all with another GR group. I also vote for Nickleby!
Jean, what you say makes a lot of sense. Variety is good and we will appreciate Bleak House more if we read another type of Dickens novel first.I read Oliver Twist earlier this year, or I would have backed it. It was really good!
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Rosemarie I assume that means you would personally rather it is not chosen just yet - but is a useful heads-up for others who know your tastes! Thanks :)
That's exactly what I mean, Jean.I've read all of the Dickens novels over the years except Barnaby Rudge, Hard Times and the book I keep nominating-Dombey and Son.
I would prefer not to read Great Expectations, as I have already read it with another group. (I think Jean led that discussion also.) Aside from that, I have no preference. And I will happily read whatever the rest of the group wants, even Great Expectations.
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I must say everyone is being really fair with this, right from the start :)
There is a strong value in starting with Pickwick Papers and then reading each book as it was written so that we can watch his development as a writer.
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I was going to say not really no ... but it's hard to describe. You could describe it like that, because it does have a satirical element which underpins everything, and runs right through. But it feels very "real" as you read it, unlike most satires which in my experience feel far more absurd. Read my review if you like, Ashley, LINK HERE.