Black Coffee discussion
2020 Group Reads
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Aug/Sept Group Read: The Vanishing Half
Robyn wrote: "1. I think that “home” no matter how disturbing or problematic it may appear to be is not so much of a physical space, as it is a psychological space. Regardless of the culture of Mallard, there wa..."Well stated, Robyn. I understand her trauma, but she did not think about what would happen to her daughter.
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "This book is so good it’s sickening. I’m in chapter six now. I’ll be ready to read the questions and join the discussion by tonight, so excited!"Hey Dosha, you are correct...”sickeningly good”. 🤣
Desiree grew up in the town, so I believe she knew how her daughter would be treated, before she went back. I believe her intention was to stay a short while, but in the end she chose the familiar and let fear stop her from branching out. Fear of the unknown, as well as her abusive husband.
One of the things which will not leave my head is Sam’s behavior. He both desired and hated her because of her looks. Can someone help me sort this out? I mean, I get it. I just need to hear another voice on it.
Trudy wrote: "One of the things which will not leave my head is Sam’s behavior. He both desired and hated her because of her looks. Can someone help me sort this out?"Sam loves Desiree, we are told the girls are good looking. Desiree told Sam about Mallard and how the town feels about skin color. I don't think Sam fully believes that she does not share some of their beliefs and I think he resents her for this. He may feel, that she thinks she is superior, because of her skin color (which he is attracted to).
Bernie wrote: "Trudy wrote: "One of the things which will not leave my head is Sam’s behavior. He both desired and hated her because of her looks. Can someone help me sort this out?"Sam loves Desiree, we are to..."
Hmm...makes sense. Thanks. 😊
Trudy wrote: "One of the things which will not leave my head is Sam’s behavior. He both desired and hated her because of her looks. Can someone help me sort this out? I mean, I get it. I just need to hear anothe..."Well, for my two cents, I believe that Sam has a violent jealous streak in him. It is most likely nurtured from how he was brought up under the American systemic racism, so institutionalized that it was pretty much unrecognizable. His family may have contributed hugely to his distrust of the light skinned black people and also of his jealousy. He may have wanted to be light or just lighter, and he may just be a jealous man period. He might be jealous of all men that he thinks are coveting his wife.
He loves Desiree but is insecure. Considering the times, I can only imagine that the living conditions he grew up in - regardless of whether he was in the north or the south- his skin color did not inspire whites or blacks to encourage acceptance, security and a general assurance of positiveness. But his daughter is his color and I believe wanted to be a part of her life. Which is why he was looking for Desiree. He wants his daughter.
Trudy wrote: "Whoa, Guys! This book !!!!!!!! I finally made it to the end of part 2. This is so good, I don’t even have the words. LOL! So, who else is pissed at Desiree for bringing little Jude to Mallard? She..."
I don't think Desiree had anywhere else to go. I ain't mad at her for going there in the first place. I feel bad for Jude that she stayed there as long as she did. I thought the grandmother gave the best kind of love she knew how to. She also was a product of her environment. She wasn't cruel to Jude, just not happy with the skin. I've got color struck family members also. I know they love my bloodline, but not my skin color. It is a sobering acceptance. Desiree was trying to protect them both from Sam.
Sam can't do anything to her in Mallard. The town would protect them both better than any other place Desiree could have gone. Poor lil Jude was gonna catch hell no matter where she lived simply because of the beautiful skin color. It's considered beautiful now, but not back then. No matter where she was, she would be odd. Yes I agree Mallard is worse than most places, she is a lonely outsider but she is safer there also. At the end of the day she is a Vegnes girl regardless.
Maya wrote: "I could not help but to think of an old movie called The imitation of Life. Also, Rachel Dolezal came to mind as well while reading this story."Imitation of Life does not come to mind so much for me. The Easy Rawlins mysteries do come to mind as far as Early goes.
This book is in direct contrast to the struggles and love of a dark skinned mother being denied by her light skinned daughter. Other than the obvious issues of color I don't get a strong connection because Stella's mom is not dark and she is not always showing up unwanted in Stella's life pretending to be someone other than her mom.
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Maya wrote: "I could not help but to think of an old movie called The imitation of Life. Also, Rachel Dolezal came to mind as well while reading this story."Imitation of Life does not come to min..."
Dosha, I’ve never read an Easy Rawlings. Which do you recommend for my first read?
Oh, I forgot. I read Devil In A Blue Dress a long time ago.
Did you guy hear the news?Brit Bennett, HBO series, and the seven figure deal! 🌟💫🌟💫🌟
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment...
Trudy wrote: "Did you guy hear the news?Bit Bennet, HBO series, and the seven figure deal! 🌟💫🌟💫🌟
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment......"
Awesome. Definitely well deserved
As I was running errands today, I was thinking this would be a great movie! Well deserved.
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Discussion starts here. Warning, there may be spoilers.
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We learned so much about Stella in Part 3.
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1. What does Stella feel she has to lose in California, if she reveals her true identity to her family and her community? When Loretta, a black woman, moves in across the street, what does she represent for Stella? What do Stella’s interactions with Loretta tell us about Stella’s commitment to her new identity?
2. In a lot of “passing” situations, there is reluctancy to have children because some “negro features” my appear in the offspring. With Stella being as paranoid as she is, do you ever think this ever crossed her mind?
3. There is a part where Stella thinks back on making love to her husband Blake and pictures the men who killed her father and the previous employer who molested her. Then there is a part when the black neighbors arrive and she has a thought “what type of person threatens to sue his way into a neighborhood where he would not be welcomed”. Do you feel like in a sense this is what Stella did to pass? She’s gone through so much just to be a part of something that she’s never been happy or comfortable with.
4. Jude and Kennedy are completely different. Do you think this is due to upbringing, geography, race, class, or education? Perhaps, it’s the creation of an individual identity?
5. How do you view the relationship between Jude and Kennedy? In a way they were both using each other for personal gain. Do you think there is more to it?
1. What does Stella feel she has to lose in California, if she reveals her true identity to her family and her community? Stella became very comfortable living as a white woman. She was very much afraid to lose her white privilege. What do Stella’s interactions with Loretta tell us about Stella’s commitment to her new identity? It seemed as if Stella was testing the waters to see if Loretta would catch on to the fact that she was black.
2. In a lot of “passing” situations, there is reluctancy to have children because some “negro features” my appear in the offspring. With Stella being as paranoid as she is, do you ever think this ever crossed her mind? No
3. Do you feel like in a sense this is what Stella did to pass? That is very possible. I do remember in the story when she went into a white store and no one said anything. It was at that moment she knew she could pass and she realized being white was a much easier way to live.
5. How do you view the relationship between Jude and Kennedy? In a way they were both using each other for personal gain. Do you think there is more to it? I would think Kennedy was the one that needed more of a reality check. She was curious about her mother's black side
Stella’s life must have been exhausting! She could never just relax and be herself. Not only did she have to make sure there were no slips in her appearance and style, but she had to remember and stick to that lie about her family. She probably lived in constant fear someone would discover her lies. Giving birth to Kennedy must have been beyond traumatic! She was probably crazy with fear during the whole pregnancy and then she had to make sure there were no more babies. Kennedy suffered because she had a mother who was never truly open and loving. The only time Stella relaxed, briefly, was well into her relationship with Loretta.
Lulu wrote: "Part 3 & Part 4 (Chapters 7 - 13).Discussion starts here. Warning, there may be spoilers.
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We learned so much about Stella in Part 3.
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1. What does Stella feel she has to lose in Californi..."
#1. What does Stella have to lose? Stella has everything to lose in Cali: her husband, daughter, status and reputation.
What does Loretta moving across the street represent for Stella? I think Loretta represents the side of her that vanished. The first Stella. Loretta also represents Stella's vulnerability at being caught and she represents comfort in the familiar that Stella forgot about. She can just be herself.
#2. Having babies that go back a few generations into the gene pool must have crossed Stella's mind, but she fretted through it like all the others and didn't push it with a second kid.
#3. I get the feeling that Stella doesn't really know how to be happy or comfortable Black or White. She lived in her sister's shadow and everyone thought that Desiree was the selfish one. Hmph. I think Stella was more selfish and could never be satisfied. I think she would have been happy to be Black if she could be treated White. Don't we all?
#4. These two first cousins wore me out. I believe there is a sequel with these two. It could be named "The Cousins". Let the twins be the secondary characters for a change. I believe they are completely different because of all the reasons listed including that they both take after their aunts in certain ways. Kennedy is more outgoing like Desiree and Jude is more reserved just like Stella.
#5. I think the relationship between the two first cousins is confusing and strained for both of them because they are drawn to each other and in the beginning, cannot figure out why.
I hope there is a sequel. I would love to know how the two cousins live it out and whether or not the twins reunite again. Where do Desiree and Early end up? I want to know what happens with Reese and Jude and making babies for Desiree and what will we do with Kennedy?
Trudy wrote: "Stella’s life must have been exhausting! She could never just relax and be herself. Not only did she have to make sure there were no slips in her appearance and style, but she had to remember and s..."So true, and it would seem to me that being around Loretta was when she should have been most on guard to not let anything slip. What if Stella slipped up and started talking about hair grease? WTF? Busted!
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Trudy wrote: "Stella’s life must have been exhausting! She could never just relax and be herself. Not only did she have to make sure there were no slips in her appearance and style, but she had to ..."Dosha!!! Conversation about hair grease...I’m dying!!! 🤣🤣🤣
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Discussion starts here. Warning, there may be spoilers.
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1. Stella thinks that becoming a white person means an easier life. Maybe it is as far as money due to Blake’s job but she’s never quite herself. Desiree dealt with horrible abuse but once she gets away, she’s content with Early and loves her daughter. Do you think Desiree ended up having the better life?
2. Let’s talk a bit more about Jude and Kennedy’s relationship and dynamic. Why do you think they end up staying in touch after everything is all said and done?
3. Why did Stella finally decide to go home? What did you think about the reunion of Desiree and Stella? Why didn’t Stella stay longer?
4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that?
5. What did you think about the ending? Were you happy to see Desiree finally leave Mallard?
6. What are your overall thoughts of the book?
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LOL!!!!!!
1. Do I think Desiree had the better life? I think that yes, Desiree ended up having the better life in the long run. She always did like Early and he always liked her. they ended up together. Sounds good to me. She was able to be herself, love her daughter and not try to live up to other peoples views, beliefs and standards. Being true to yourself says a lot about inner happiness, imo.2. Jude and Kennedy's relationship and dynamic - why did they stay in touch? Because deep down inside they knew they were first cousins. Neither had a sibling so a cousin is the next best thing, in some cases, even better. I think it can be exciting to find a new relative and establish a personal, yet secret relationship with that person.
3. Why did Stella go home? I believe she went home because she didn't want Kennedy to learn anymore about her real life and identity. She went home to get Desiree to call Jude off. Instead they had a reunion.
I think the reunion was wonderful, but too short. If it had been planned it wouldn't have worked.
Stella didn't stay longer because she couldn't stay longer. She had to get back home before her husband got home from Boston. She was having a wonderful time in Mallard with moms and sis, but not good enough to give up the lie she was living.
4. Kennedy knows the truth and believes lying is love and does the same in return. What does this mean? The hell if I know. I'm stumped on that one.
5.What do I think about the ending? Well, I was glad to see Desiree leave Mallard but I wasn't happy that Stella was not given the opportunity to go to her mother's funeral. That bothered me.
6. Overall, the book was a smash hit, but I wish that Kennedy had told her Stella that her mom passed away. That was just wrong. I would love to see another book on these two cousins with both twins in minor roles. I hope they do get to be together again as twins.
1. Stella thinks that becoming a white person means an easier life. Maybe it is as far as money due to Blake’s job but she’s never quite herself. Desiree dealt with horrible abuse but once she gets away, she’s content with Early and loves her daughter. Do you think Desiree ended up having the better life? I definitely think Desiree had the better life. Living in your truth is the best part. The only thing Stella had was a very lavish life.2. Let’s talk a bit more about Jude and Kennedy’s relationship and dynamic. Why do you think they end up staying in touch after everything is all said and done? They both knew they had a kinship and I don't think either of them wanted to let that go. At this point we are grown cousins and just because our mothers don't speak does not mean we have to do the same.
3. Why did Stella finally decide to go home? I think she went home to have closure to the truth. She literally closed that part of her life with no intention of leaving her lavish life/lie.
4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that? Her mom taught her. There's an old saying...children lead by example.
5. What did you think about the ending? Were you happy to see Desiree finally leave Mallard? yes. I also wish Kennedy told her her mother that her mom passed.
6. Overall, it was a good book and I recommend to others. I did want the author to say more about Jude and Reese's relationship. The author made transgender seem as if that was so accepting during that time. Their relationship really needed more development.
1. I absolutely believe Desiree had the better life. She was loved for who she was, and there was no pretending and lying from day to day.2. I think Jude and Kennedy accepted that they were cousins and were choosing to continue their relationship. I think they may have been curious about each others lives, since they were so different from their own.
3. Stella went home, to get Desiree to put a muzzle on Jude. Stella did not want her niece to expose her, as someone who was passing. Stella didn’t stay longer, because she did not want Desiree to convince her, to choose another path.
5. I was happy to see Desiree finally leave Mallard, because that meant she was experiencing personal growth.
6. I loved the book, all of it, including the non pie in the sky ending.
4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that?I think Stella and Kennedy truly loved one another. Her mother taught her not to tell the whole story in order to spare peoples feelings. So not exposing her mother's secret, was an act of love. Not telling her mother that her grandmother was dead was an act of love. Her mother chose her life, she wasn't going to go to the funeral and knowing would only make Stella feel bad (guilt). Knowing that Kennedy and Jude were in contact would only make Stella anxious, so not telling her, was also an act of love.
Bernie wrote: "4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that?I think Stella and Kennedy truly loved one another. Her mot..."
this is a very compassionate viewpoint, one I admittedly would never have thought of. Nice.
Maya wrote: "1. Stella thinks that becoming a white person means an easier life. Maybe it is as far as money due to Blake’s job but she’s never quite herself. Desiree dealt with horrible abuse but once she gets..."Maya, to your point regarding #6, I agree wholeheartedly. I wish there had been much more to Jude and Reece's story, and I would actually like to know more about Jude and Kennedy's story also. Sounds like a sequel to me. :-)
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Bernie wrote: "4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that?I think Stella and Kennedy truly loved one a..."
😉😉😉
So. I was thinking: When Stella made that trip to Mallard, she knew she had to either choose her mother and her sister or her husband and her daughter. Terrible choice to have to make.
Bernie wrote: "4. Kennedy knows the truth and thinks her mother showed her love by lying and in turn, Kennedy does the same. What did she mean by that?I think Stella and Kennedy truly loved one another. Her mot..."
Sure didn’t think about her actions in this way. Thought provoking!
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I mean honestly, what would she have lost if she decided to come clean? Her husband, possibly....what else?
Lulu wrote: "I’ve been thinking about this and trying to decide if I feel sorry for Stella and I don’t think I do. I mean honestly, what would she have lost if she decided to come clean? Her husband, possibly..."
Stella went back to school got her GED, associates and then a bachelors degree . Stella was then hired as an adjunct for and Introduction for statistics class. Although the job paid next to nothing, it made Stella happy. Stella was being encouraged by her mentor, to get her Masters degree. Stella always wanted an education, and had she stayed in Mallard, she wouldn't have one. I don't agree with her choice, but she did not make it lightly.
Ella wrote: "Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "1. Do I think Desiree had the better life? I think that yes, Desiree ended up having the better life in the long run. She always did like Early and he always liked her..."No, I don't think Stella would have gone to the funeral. When she made that trip to Mallard, I believe that was her final goodbye. She made her choice to move on.
Bernie wrote: "Ella wrote: "Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "1. Do I think Desiree had the better life? I think that yes, Desiree ended up having the better life in the long run. She always did like Early and he alw..."I agree! When Stella left Mallard the second time, I think she was firmly ending her old life. I was worried though when she gave that ring to Early to pawn. What if he had been accused of stealing it? If it had been traced back to her, I’m pretty confident she would have thrown Early under the bus. (She did cover her tracks though. I forgot. What did she tell her husband had happened to the ring?)
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Trudy wrote: "Bernie wrote: "Ella wrote: "Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "1. Do I think Desiree had the better life? I think that yes, Desiree ended up having the better life in the long run. She always did like E..."She lied (as a way of life) and said she lost it washing her hands at work. I was worried for Early also. She could have at least pawned it herself and given the money to him. She would have got more for it than he did. I guess she didn't have time, since she had to hurry home before her hubby got there. She had nerves of steel. She played the role to the bone.
Ella wrote: "Lulu wrote: "I’ve been thinking about this and trying to decide if I feel sorry for Stella and I don’t think I do. I am still trying to sort my feelings about Stella too. In ways I feel sorry for..."
I was a bit disappointed in Stella, but I don't feel sorry for her. She seems to prefer the life she has so, oh well. I'm disappointed that she was not willing to let her twin into her life though. On that level, I feel sorry for Desiree, not Stella.
wow i am super behind.1. The story starts off with Desiree (who ran away with her twin sister at the age of 16) coming back to town quite a few years later with her daughter Jude (who is considered ‘Blueblack, like she’d flown direct from Africa’). Why do you think Desiree returned to Mallard knowing the affects the town has had on her and could potentially have on her daughter Jude?
I don't think Desiree had anywhere else to turn. She had to do what she had to do for her and her daughter.
2. Mallard, a community of fair complexion black people who appear white...”the darkest appearing to be Greek”, is somewhat a character in the story. How does the history of the town affect the outlook of the residents? What affect did it have on the twins and their parents? Does it all seem a bit ironic when it comes to “passé blanc”?
The history of the town shelters the residents. I think on the twins they imagined that there was more to the world than Mallard.
3. Growing up Stella and Desiree were inseparable. It appears that Desiree is the stronger of the two, making all of the decisions, but we soon come to question if any of this is true. Is there a certain event that causes the separation between the twins? At what point do you think Stella became her own person?
I dont know. I stink Stella realized she had to be her own person sometime when they where in NOLA.
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What's up with Reese? Is he Queer? Am I reading this correctly?
By the end of the book, he’s transgender
my oh my. i didn’t expect this exploration. i am pleasantly surprised.
I think Reese’s character was a parallel to Stella’s. They both chose to change at will. Stella changed her color, Reese changed his sexual orientation.Reese’s character and Jude both experienced ridicule for being themselves. Jude for her skin color (by the town), and Reese (by his father) for not being like the rest of the girls.
I loved that the book ended with Desiree getting a “fresh start” to life, almost like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. I do wish that would’ve paralleled with Stella also starting anew by embracing her Blackness. Maybe that’d make for a fun epilogue, set in this century (considering the current times, lol). I loved how they juxtaposed Kennedy’s privilege & freedom with Jude’s self consciousness & determination. Both characters realize a lot about themselves, but by the end of the novel it feels as though there’s still a lot they’ve not yet realized. Will Jude explore her sexuality & sensuality now that she’s no longer with Reese? Will Kennedy continue to be complicit with elements of white supremacy knowing her heritage? Such a dynamic and eloquent book; it’s very relevant, very real, and somewhat nostalgic. I’ve gotta check out her other work.
Darryl wrote: "wow i am super behind.1. The story starts off with Desiree (who ran away with her twin sister at the age of 16) coming back to town quite a few years later with her daughter Jude (who is consider..."
Darryl wrote: "wow i am super behind.
1. The story starts off with Desiree (who ran away with her twin sister at the age of 16) coming back to town quite a few years later with her daughter Jude (who is consider..."
I think Stella became her own person when she fell in love.
Maredda wrote: "I loved that the book ended with Desiree getting a “fresh start” to life, almost like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. I do wish that would’ve paralleled with Stella also starting anew by embracing..."Jude and Reece are no longer together? I missed that, I thought they broke up and then reunited.
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Darryl wrote: "wow i am super behind.1. The story starts off with Desiree (who ran away with her twin sister at the age of 16) coming back to town quite a few years later with her daughter Jude (..."
I’ll have to read again, because I don’t remember, Stella falling in love. I thought the opportunity presented itself, and she took it.
Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Darryl wrote: "wow i am super behind.1. The story starts off with Desiree (who ran away with her twin sister at the age of 16) coming back to town quite a few years later with her daughter Jude (..."
That is a better way to look at it, Dosha. I agree with you!
So, who else is pissed at Desiree for bringing little Jude to Mallard? She..."
I was annoyed at Desiree as well. The bottom line is she wasn't strong enough, to attempt to make it on her own. when she wanted to leave Mallard as a teenager, she waited until Stella was ready to go with her. Mallard wasn't the place to take her daughter, but she had no where else to go. She chose to go back to a familiar place, where there were people she knew