ARCHIVE ~ SPOTLIGHTED BOOK - GHOST ON THE THRONE- Week One - July 13th - July 19th, 2020 - Preface, Introduction: The Opening of the Tombs and 1. Bodyguards and Companions (pages xiii-xxii, 3 - 33) - DISCUSSION - No Spoilers, please

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I have to confess that it took me a while to connect with this book. First of all, Chapter 1 mentioned 31 different people (yes, I counted them), most of whom were new to me. Next, the narrative moved around in time, back and forth from the days of Alexander's illness, to arriving in Babylon the first time, to the soldier's mutiny in India, etc. Not being that familiar with Alexander's history, it was a bit confusing to me. This is not a criticism of the author, who's done a great job, just of my lack of knowledge. I am finding it really interesting, especially the different characters.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Chapter One


The Royal Bodyguard of Alexander the Great

Discussion Topics and Questions:

3. What do you think of Alexander’s vision to make his kingdom have a blended Greek-Asian culture? Apparently many of his followers didn’t like it.

4. Do you think Alexander’s death was caused by illness or poison? This doesn’t seem to have been settled.

5. What about Alexander taking multiple wives? It seems like it would cause a lot of rivalry among the royal offspring.

[A Million Pages]

Hello, I'm late to the introduction. I'm Kelli from Texas. I have very little knowledge of this time period. My interest is solely to correct that.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Welcome, Kelli, I'm glad you've joined us. You're not at all too late. I hope you'll learn a lot from the book and the discussion here.

[Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases]

3. I assume Alexander's subordinates and soldiers didn't mind Alexander's Persian tastes as long as they benefited from it (such as the Persian Empire's wealth and mistresses) But they didn't like it very much when, say, Alexander forced them to marry their Persian concubines, or when their leaders pandered to the wishes of their defeated Persian enemies.

4. How did Alexander die? We can't know for sure. There are some problems with the theory that he was poisoned. In Alexander's day, people didn't know much about disease, or the dangers of drinking bad water or eating bad food. Also, the poisons of ancient herbalists were often pretty fast-acting. If somebody did poison Alexander, they picked one that worked pretty slowly, but why would an assassin want to use a slow-acting poison? According to the sources, there were twelve days between Medius's banquet and Alexander's death.

5. Why did Alexander take multiple wives? No doubt Alexander wanted to strengthen ties with his own Persian conquests, build alliances, and produce a male heir. Maybe he wanted to be doubly, then triply sure they could give birth to a son with a mixed heritage who could rule his polyglot empire. Maybe Alexander was a bit of a ladies' man; that was unfortunate for his wives, since most of them were later assassinated.

[Andrea]

Wow, Jerome!. I can tell I need to break down and buy this book!
Regards,
Andrea

[Nihilistic Librarian]

Hello, my name is Carly, I'm currently a librarian in NY and double majored in writing and history in college. I am looking forward to discussing this book (waiting for it to arrive ILL) and thank you again for the invitation! I've always been interested in Alexander and I'm looking forward to hearing from others.

[Michael]

Bentley wrote: "The Greek Armies

by Peter Connolly

Michael, for the book we are reading and discussing does not need to be..."

Missed the last bit! I will, thank you!

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Thanks Michael

[Andrea]

Welcome, Carly!. At one time I too was a librarian, here in Texas! It’s the perfect job for a bookworm. Do you get first chance on checking out a book? I’m working on getting a copy of this book from one of my libraries; no success yet.
Regards,
Andrea

[Michael]

Nice to have librarians in our company! And quite fitting I'd say as perhaps the most famous library in history was in Alexandria (the library itself was founded by Alexander's Successors in Egypt).

[Andrea]

Michael, yes indeedy — contrary to popular opinion, Librarians are a man’s best friend! Ask my husband!
Regards,
Andrea

[Melissa]

Hi everyone. I'm Melissa from Colorado, and also a library worker. While I've always been interested in history, this is one time period I haven't explored very much. I decided to read this book hoping it would pique my interest- and so far, so good!

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Nihilistic Librarian wrote: "Hello, my name is Carly, I'm currently a librarian in NY and double majored in writing and history in college. I am looking forward to discussing this book (waiting for it to arrive ILL) and thank ..."

Glad to have you here, Carly. I had to look up what ILL meant - apparently Inter-Library Loan. We used to have something like that here in Berkeley CA, called Link+, but it's taking a covid vacation.

I am curious what a Nihilistic Librarian is.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Melissa wrote: "Hi everyone. I'm Melissa from Colorado, and also a library worker. While I've always been interested in history, this is one time period I haven't explored very much. I decided to read this book ho..."

Hi, Melissa. Libraries are certainly well represented here. I, too, am learning a lot about Alexander and this period.

[Bill]

Hi everyone. I’m Bill from Chicago. I’ve been a member of the group for years but have not participated. A number of years ago I started a read on Chernow’s Washington but dropped out pretty quickly. I’m retired now and have been auditing college classes. Can’t do that with COVID. I’ve recently been interested in eras when the wheels come off the wagon—end of Roman republic, fall of empire, French Revolution, lead up to WW1. Ghosts sounds to fit in there perfectly.
Question for Michael. I’m familiar with Alexander and have heard of Ptolemy but have never heard of all of these other people in Chapter 1. Are they more known in Greece today?

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Jerome wrote: "3. I assume Alexander's subordinates and soldiers didn't mind Alexander's Persian tastes as long as they benefited from it (such as the Persian Empire's wealth and mistresses) But they didn't like ..."

Thanks for the comments, Jerome. My first thought when I read about Alexander wanting to meld the Asian and Macedonian cultures was that it seemed sort of modern, kind of like multi-culturalism. But thinking on it more, it looks to me like he wanted to add the Asian way of honoring the top dog (eg. kissing on the mouth), and not necessarily introducing Macedonian customs into the Babylonian court.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Bill wrote: "Hi everyone. I’m Bill from Chicago. I’ve been a member of the group for years but have not participated. A number of years ago I started a read on Chernow’s Washington but dropped out pretty quickl..."

Welcome, Bill. I'm very glad the topic of this book has pulled you into this discussion.

I know what you mean about all the people surrounding Alexander. I think Ptolemy is the only one I was familiar with also. Probably because of his famous descendant Cleopatra.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

5. Why did Alexander take multiple wives? I guess it wasn't that unusual in those days. Alexander's father, Philip II, had multiple wives also. Maybe it helped cement relationships with neighboring kingdoms, or places you conquered. It does seem kind of messy, though.

[Christina]

Hi! My name is Christina and I live in Eugene, Oregon. I love reading and I love history. I am interested in a lot of periods but love to read about ancient times.

I have heard about Alexander in bits and pieces from text books and movies but I have yet to read a book just focused on him. This will be a little backward starting at the end of his story, but I thought it sounded very intriguing and not a topic I had heard a lot about.

[Yuki]

Vicki wrote: "Chapter One

The Royal Bodyguard of Alexander the Great
Discussion Topics and Questions:
3. What do you think of Alexander’s vision to make his kingdom have a blended Greek-Asian culture? Appar..."

3. What do you think of Alexander’s vision to make his kingdom have a blended Greek-Asian culture? Apparently many of his followers didn’t like it.

It seems that he was young and very open minded leader. His curiosity for other cultures drove him to conquest far far away from home, perhaps. Generally people are resistant for new things.

5. What about Alexander taking multiple wives? It seems like it would cause a lot of rivalry among the royal offspring.

It is a common practice, isn't it? In Japanese history, that also happened a lot to strengthen the ties and/or avert the risk with neighboring countries. It surely could cause a lot of rivalry and a legitimate successor needs to be named with everyone's agreement, but not for Alexander's case.

It is nice to have many librarians here. I like to chit chat with them about the book that I am returning.

[Andrea]

Yuki and Vicki, in regards to item #5, what about good old King Solomon. If memory serves me correctly, King Solomon had 600 wives and 300 concubines! Feminists still sputter about that!
Regards,
Andrea

Holy Bible: King James Version

[Michael]

Andrea wrote: "Michael, yes indeedy — contrary to popular opinion, Librarians are a man’s best friend! Ask my husband!
Regards,
Andrea"

:) :) :)

[Michael]

Bill wrote: "Hi everyone. I’m Bill from Chicago. I’ve been a member of the group for years but have not participated. A number of years ago I started a read on Chernow’s Washington but dropped out pretty quickl..."

Hi Bill and welcome! I also like to learn about these transitional periods in history.

Your question is really interesting but I can provide no single answer. It really depends on how educated a person is. However I believe that at least half of the names in the first chapter are familiar to almost every reasonably educated person. Not everyone would know all the Companions or Bodyguards though and some of the generals.

Sorry for my out-of-sync answers but the timezone difference is quite a burden.

[Michael]

Vicki wrote: "Jerome wrote: "3. I assume Alexander's subordinates and soldiers didn't mind Alexander's Persian tastes as long as they benefited from it (such as the Persian Empire's wealth and mistresses) But th..."

I quite agree on that!

[Nihilistic Librarian]

Andrea wrote: "Welcome, Carly!. At one time I too was a librarian, here in Texas! It’s the perfect job for a bookworm. Do you get first chance on checking out a book? I’m working on getting a copy of this book fr..."

I do get first pick of books coming in (I process and link incoming books) but I try not to abuse the privilege :P. I just got my copy in yesterday afternoon and I'm almost done with the first assignment, can't wait to start discussing!

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Andrea wrote: "Yuki and Vicki, in regards to item #5, what about good old King Solomon. If memory serves me correctly, King Solomon had 600 wives and 300 concubines! Feminists still sputter about that!
Regards,
A..."

Hi Andrea, thank you for your post - we do not have to cite the book or the author or anybody we meet in the book we are discussing as a group.

But for any other book we do - thank you for remembering that. Normally for books we add the book cover, the word by, the author's photo (if available) and the author's link (which is the author's name in linkable text) - if the author's photo is not available - we add (no photo) at the end. Obviously, authors are a problem with the Bible (smile) but in goodreads they appear to be using the publisher's name instead. Thought I would give you an example of how we might do it for this edition.

by Familyties Books (no photo)

[Michael]

3. What do you think of Alexander’s vision to make his kingdom have a blended Greek-Asian culture? Apparently many of his followers didn’t like it.

It is generally hailed today as his most "modern" and forward-looking vision. I believe that his intention at first were honest, trying to bring two different cultures together so as to end the bitterness and mistrust between them. However, it seems that he was much more influenced by Persian customs (and luxurious way of governing) than the Persians (and other people of the Persian Empire) by Greek ones. Classical Greek culture was kind of austere
(Sparta being one extreme example) and a common accusation especially for rich political figures was "Medism", that is living in luxury like the "Medes" (Persians).
On the other hand this vision of his and the steps he took towards implementing I believe that helped to establish the Hellenistic Kingdoms of the Successors.


4. Do you think Alexander’s death was caused by illness or poison? This doesn’t seem to have been settled.

I can't really decide and I think we will never know for sure. Personally I am more inclined to think it was illness.

5. What about Alexander taking multiple wives? It seems like it would cause a lot of rivalry among the royal offspring.

I have the theory that these offspring would serve as his heirs to their respective "regions", so that he would form family ties between the various areas of his Empire. As to who would be his immediate successor, I think he would certainly have married a wife from a great royal house for that.

[Nihilistic Librarian]

1. My impression of Alexander ties into the rest of the questions for me, which is that he was a young, charismatic leader. As most young people do, he seemed to think himself invincible and used this head strong attitude to rally his troops and lend more credence to the rumor that he was the son of a god, “He scaled a siege ladder his men were reluctant to climb and, as if shaming them, stood atop the wall exposed to hostile fire,” (Romm, 14).

2. This brings me to the second question, why didn't he name an heir? Which I believe can be answered with how Alexander saw himself and how he knew others saw him, which is why he went to great lengths to keep his illness under wraps, after what happened the last time his people thought he had perished. I think he really didn't believe he would die. Or at least not without having significant time to get his affairs in order.

3. Again, constructing an image for himself was a top priority for Alexander and in order to blend the cultures within his territory he had to carefully make sure to be seen as granting religious, cultural, and to an extent economic and government autonomy to his new subjects. He wanted to be seen as tolerant and harmonious, which I think was a little too progressive for some of his followers.

4. I obviously can't say with any certainty if Alexander died of poison or illness but an interesting line caught my eye, “...they manipulated the published records of his death...to suit their own purposes” (Romm, 22). I think records of Alexander being poisoned were to incite hostility between those who did not support the blending of cultures and the new subjects of Alexander's empire. I believe it was illness due to the amount of time it took for him to pass away.

5. Marriage in this time was used for political alliances, status, and providing stability for future generations. I don't think Alexander was thinking ahead to the future of rivalry for the throne because he was so young, I honestly don't believe he thought he was going to die a) that young or b) at all.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Christina wrote: "Hi! My name is Christina and I live in Eugene, Oregon. I love reading and I love history. I am interested in a lot of periods but love to read about ancient times.

I have heard about Alexander in ..."

Welcome, Christina, glad you're joining us. It's always fun to delve into an unfamiliar part of history.

[Nihilistic Librarian]

Michael wrote: "3. What do you think of Alexander’s vision to make his kingdom have a blended Greek-Asian culture? Apparently many of his followers didn’t like it.

It is generally hailed today as his most "modern..."

Hi Michael, you mentioned in your post, " I believe that his intention at first were honest, trying to bring two different cultures together so as to end the bitterness and mistrust between them. However, it seems that he was much more influenced by Persian customs (and luxurious way of governing) than the Persians (and other people of the Persian Empire) by Greek ones."
I noticed this too, that he seemed more taken with Persian customs which caused soldiers to angrily protest. I was curious if you thought that what began as an honest intention to bring two cultures together began sliding towards more forceful methods (i.e. his removal of soldiers that had protested the new customs)?

[Michael]

Nihilistic Librarian wrote: "I was curious if you thought that what began as an honest intention to bring two cultures together began sliding towards more forceful methods"

Hi Carly, you are right, that's what I believe it happened (although the actual process must have been more complicated). It is something we see today too, all of us know people that hate being criticized especially in their own "fields". And human nature hasn't changed that much over the centuries (that's why things like ancient myths and greek tragedies still fascinate us).

[Andrea]

Ladies and Gentlemen, if you’d like a crash course in early Persian history, may I recommend “Iran: A Modern History?”
Regards,
Andrea

by Abbas Amanat (no photo)

[Michael]

Andrea wrote: "Ladies and Gentlemen, if you’d like a crash course in early Persian history, may I recommend “Iran: A Modern History?”
"

Nice, I'll have it in mind!

[Cheryl]

hi I'm Cheryl from Vancouver BC Canada

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Cheryl wrote: "hi I'm Cheryl from Vancouver BC Canada"

Welcome, Cheryl, glad you could join us. Can you tell us a bit about why you decided to read this book?

[Yuki]

Michael wrote: "And human nature hasn't changed that much over the centuries (that's why things like ancient myths and greek tragedies still fascinate us)

Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking with an utter amazement when I was reading "SPQR"....all the politics involved...That's why we need to know our history and learn from it.

by Mary Beard

On the very side note, I am so happy that I found this group. I read so many Japanese history books, but not much about the world history growing up in Japan. I learned it at school and remember many things in a very shallow way (like I know "Alexander the Great" but don't know exactly what his personality was and how vast his conquest was). When I came to the US in my mid 20s, my English reading vocabulary was not even close to my Japanese, so I stayed away from reading for all those years. I started reading when my teen children asked me to read their favorite books. My son loves reading and he was the one who got me started from Percy Jackson series. Please do not laugh, but I got immensely fascinated with Greek Mythology. I love historical fiction as well as non fiction. It gives me lots of colorful ideas of historical figures personalities. And again please do not despise me further, but my son who knows how much I love history, forced me to watch Japanese anime. One series called "Fate" introduces so many historical figures as hero. Alexander was one of them and he was portrayed as such a nice and powerful guy that people loved and he criticized King Arthur as a leader. There are also Gilgamesh, Hercules, Medea, Medusa...You just never know when and how a tiny knowledge and interest that you have finds a way to further searching and understanding.

by Rick Riordan

I am truly enjoying to read all the discussions from all the knowledgeable readers like you all.

[Andrea]

Yuki, if you like King Arthur, you might try reading “The Once and Future King!” It is excellent and so humorous. I especially love the ants with their “Done” and “Undone’ as the only two adjectives in their language.
Regards,
Andrea

by T.H. White

[Yuki]

Andrea wrote: "Yuki, if you like King Arthur, you might try reading “The Once and Future King!”

Andrea, thank you for the recommendation! I added it "want to read" list. I recently finished "The Winter King" and 2 more in the series to go. :)

by Bernard Cornwell

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Yuki, what an interesting literary path you have traveled. And I love it that Alexander was in an anime series.

Your book citations are almost perfect, but you don't need the link to the book title, since you have posted the cover, like so.

by Rick Riordan

Sometimes there is no cover picture, so you would put the title link preceded by "(no image)".

[Yuki]

Vicki Thanks and the citation - Got it! I finally got it!! Thanks for your patience.

[Andrea]

Yuki and Vicki, there’s truly an art to this book citation operation! However, it serves a very important function in that it connects us to the powerful Goodreads softwear. Yuki, I too struggle with making my citations uniform and correct. Fortunately, we’ve got Vicki and Bentley and Lorna to keep us on the straight and narrow!!!
Regards,
Andrea

[Sally]

Hello everyone, my name is Sally and I'm form Saudi Arabia, I study medicine and I love history. I mainly read about Russian history but was happy to accept the invite and read this book. Honestly I didn't think I'd like it this much, I thought it would be intimidating since I know little about Alexander but finishing the first chapter I am relieved.
My first impressions of Alexander are kind of mixed. Since I don't know much I'll keep an open mind. It was a bit odd to me that he conquered all this land but with no plans for succession. From an outside perspective it would be one of one's top priorities as a king.

[Andrea]

Welcome, Sally, you’ll find that the Club reads all sorts of fascinating and eclectic books. You’re way ahead of me — I’m still trying to find the book at one of the libraries! Another read that’s just starting up is “White Fragility.” I’m finding it very interesting.
Regards,
Andrea

by Robin DiAngelo (no photo)

[Stephie]

Nihilistic Librarian wrote: "Hello, my name is Carly, I'm currently a librarian in NY and double majored in writing and history in college. I am looking forward to discussing this book (waiting for it to arrive ILL) and thank ..."

I am also a librarian in NY and majored in History!

[Stephie]

My name is Stephanie. I am a librarian. I have masters in History and Library Science. I have always been fascinating with studying the past and look forward to joining in this conversation. I know a little about Alexander but I am interested in going deeper into his history.

[Andrea]

My Goodness, Stephanie, I too am a former librarian. My BA was a double major in English and History. Small world, indeed!
Regards,
Andrea

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Sally wrote: "Hello everyone, my name is Sally and I'm form Saudi Arabia, I study medicine and I love history. I mainly read about Russian history but was happy to accept the invite and read this book. Honestly ..."

Welcome, Sally, I'm glad you're enjoying the book. I know what you mean about it being odd he didn't plan for what might happen if he were killed, particularly since he had been badly wounded already. He probably thought he was invincible and that there was plenty of time for such unimportant details ;-).

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Stephanie wrote: "My name is Stephanie. I am a librarian. I have masters in History and Library Science. I have always been fascinating with studying the past and look forward to joining in this conversation. I know..."

Welcome, Stephanie. Wow, looks like we're being taken over by librarians. Not that that's a bad thing. I look forward to your comments about the book.

[Nihilistic Librarian]

Stephanie wrote: "Nihilistic Librarian wrote: "Hello, my name is Carly, I'm currently a librarian in NY and double majored in writing and history in college. I am looking forward to discussing this book (waiting for..."
Always lovely to see so many librarians!