Dawn (Xenogenesis #1) : January 1 - February 15

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

This is just crazy!!! I knew Nkanj wouldn't be willing to let Lilith go back to Earth when the time came.

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

Ok!! So...i'm ready to the read the second one. LOL

[A.D.]

I've read the trilogy and I think the name Lilith definitely suits her lol

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

Dawn, was published in 1987
Adulthood Rites, published in 1988
Imago published in 1989

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

A.D. wrote: "I've read the trilogy and I think the name Lilith definitely suits her lol"

I'll definitely finish this trilogy this year.

[A.D.]

I think the first two meanings - Night Monster and Storm Goddess are both quite negative. The other meaning "She rebelled and abandoned Adam" is quite fitting as Adam was the first man and, to an extent, I think Lilith abandons mankind and becomes a bit of a collaborator when it comes to the Oankali. (view spoiler)[The scene with Lilith, Joseph and Nikanj shows that as she didn't let Joseph choose to be a part of what her and Nikanj were doing. (hide spoiler)]

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

A.D. just hit the nail on the head Hattie! That was my train of thought.

[Londa]

Love all of the comments so far! I think everyone is done or almost done so we can discuss up through PART III Nursery

Going back to an earlier point you all made. I never could understand why they wouldn't give her the paper, and then later on, they gave her the paper. I guess at that point they had already shown her that things were going to go their way or no way.

I think her name is very fitting, but maybe not in the way you all do. I think the Adam she is going to eventually rebel against is Nikanj but that has yet to be seen. I really want to read the rest of the trilogy too, so maybe we can set up buddy reads for that

What did you guys think of her 'meeting' with Titus? I think it was another experiment or test. Even though he was the aggressor I sort of felt sorry for Titus because he didn't even know how to behave as a human at all. Weirdly enough, it also made me rethink having only one pet. Maybe it is cruel to have only one of a species living in a house LOL

Do you think the Oankali sort of regard them as pets more than partners?

[A.D.]

I definitely think the Oankali see them as pets.
The Titus scene really showed us how the extent to which Oankali have taken away control from humans. In that scene, they intended to let Titus rape Lilith and they only intervened when he ended up beating her up instead. And with the Titus scene he was described as attractive but he quickly became quite unattractive when you saw how childlike he was.

I really like what Octavia Butler did with Nkanj's character. He/She's introduced to us as a child even though he/she about twenty (I think) but which is considered a child to the Oankali. And he came across as childlike because he hadn't learned to speak English properly and was shorter than Liltith. The whole thing about showing Lilith off to his friends started off as quite cute - and she thought so too - until she got there and didn't like the way they were treating her. I kind of liked Nikanj at that point - or I at least didn't think he was as manipulative as the rest, especially since he was the only one who wanted to intervene when Titus was going to rape Lilith.

So I was so shocked when the scene with Joseph occurred and the way Nikanj stung Joseph and then when Lilith started talking about Nikanj sounding seductive, I couldn't believe it.

I'm definitely up for a buddy read about the rest of the trilogy and the comment about only having one pet really made me laugh:-)

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

"So I was so shocked when the scene with Joseph occurred and the way Nikanj stung Joseph and then when Lilith started talking about Nikanj sounding seductive, I couldn't believe it."


This part though!!! LOL

[A.D.]

LOL I know! :-)

[Londa]

That scene with Joseph was shocking. She was so 'cool' with it. LOL Whatever Nikanj does must be really good to her. LOL

It seems like whatever happened during Nikanj's 'change' strongly and irreversibly bonded Lilith to it.

[A.D.]

I don't think it was about her bonding with Nikanj during It's change. I think it's more like what Hattie said that "Under these conquerors, Lilith will have to give up her true identity. They are reshaping her like a person would sculpture clay."

The Oankali have been very manipulative and as much as Lilith saw herself as a victim and that she didn't have any control, she wasn't really a victim and the scene with Joseph showed that she was a collaborator because she didn't give Joseph a choice - just like the Oankali don't give humans a choice. Whenever one culture conquers another it's normal for the conquering culture to dictate that their culture and ways are superior - like the Oankali did when Lilith wanted to learn using a pen and paper but the Oankali preferred to change the way her brain works instead. When you think about colonisation and slavery, there were a lot of slaves that collaborated with their masters. And when you think about the fact that even though colonisation has ended in a lot of those countries western culture is still revered. I'm not articulating it properly, but I hope you guys know what I mean.

[Anastasia Kinderman]

I've been meaning to get to this all month but time got away from me. I'm over my head with books! I finished "Womb" last night and I must say that I'm glad I followed this thread's conversation earlier because I would not have picked up on the colonizer parallel on my own. It's so subtle...

Also, as an aside, am I the only one who hasn't found Jdahya's description creepy? I found myself kind of impatient with Lilith and wanting her to get over her revulsion to how he looked. It must be all the Star Trek I've watched, I guess.

[A.D.]

Anastasia wrote: "I've been meaning to get to this all month but time got away from me. I'm over my head with books! I finished "Womb" last night and I must say that I'm glad I followed this thread's conversation ..."

Lol. When I read it I wasn't that creeped out, it was only when Londa or maybe Lulu posted an artists interpretation of what the Oankali looked like that I was creeped out.

[Anastasia Kinderman]

A.D. wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "I've been meaning to get to this all month but time got away from me. I'm over my head with books! I finished "Womb" last night and I must say that I'm glad I followed this thre..."

I didn't find the picture creepy either. xD

[A.D.]

Anastasia wrote: I didn't find the picture creepy either. xD
"

Lmao

[Lulu, The Book Reader who could.]

Lol @ Anastasia.