June 2020 Group Read (spoiler thread) - A Judgement in Stone by Ruth Rendell

[Bill]

This the thread for spoiler comments when discussing A Judgement in Stone by Ruth Rendell

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Feel free to absolutely spoil away in this thread. Enjoy the book.

[Zoe]

Oh god this is bad sorry for anyone who is a massive fan but urrrgh I hated this novel

[Jupiter]

for me, this is the first book i read from this author and i finished it last week. i really enoyed it

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

It reminded me of In Cold Blood in the style of writing.

It was not a mystery as much as it was a psychological exploration of how a senseless murder happens. The effect on Eunace of a lack of literacy and culture seemed accurate to me, excepting her viciousness, of course. That violence seemed more appropriate to the way I've actually seen illiterate men act.

Once I adjusted my expectations, I liked it.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

"Once I adjusted my expectations, I liked it."

that happens a lot.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Zoe wrote: "Oh god this is bad sorry for anyone who is a massive fan but urrrgh I hated this novel"

Sorry, Zoe. Not every book is for every person.

[Zoe]

It’s ok don’t worry I have been told her other books are better... will give them a try.

[Janice (JG)]

I have only recently joined this group, I thought I was through with this genre several years ago... but the last couple years have been so fraught with trauma and stress that I finally realized that a good mystery was still the best medicine for coping. My drug of choice.

I really liked Rendell's handling of this story. As April mentioned, it is similar to In Cold Blood in its method of exploring the backstory to the crime. I was impressed by the emphasis on the consequences of illiteracy on a person's world view, quality of life, fears, and decisions. It was revelatory to realize that illiteracy can cripple or block empathy, as well as imagination.

This novel was an eye-opener, and I am very glad I continue to donate to a few literacy organizations.

[Leena]

I'm.trying very harsh to read this book. There's just something that's putting me off. but I am.persevering. Maybe I should just read the spoiler review..

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Janice (JG) wrote: "I have only recently joined this group, I thought I was through with this genre several years ago... but the last couple years have been so fraught with trauma and stress that I finally realized th..."

Welcome, Janice. Yes, this book is much more psychological in nature than her Wexford series novels, which to me are sort of hit and miss.


"a good mystery was still the best medicine for coping."

I completely understand that logic. Mysteries are my reading comfort food.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Leena wrote: "I'm.trying very harsh to read this book. There's just something that's putting me off. but I am.persevering. Maybe I should just read the spoiler review.."

It's not like a regular mystery novel at all, so maybe that's it?

[Corina]

I found myself drifting in and out of this story. I honestly think my favorite part was the ending, where we get to hear a little bit about Eunice's trial and the ultimate punishment of her illiteracy being uncovered. Just out of pure curiosity I would've enjoyed hearing more about that scene, but I think it works just fine the way Ruth put it too.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "It reminded me of In Cold Blood in the style of writing..."

I agree completely and I noticed that as well while I was reading it. I was also reminded somewhat of The Secret History by Donna Tartt because in both books we know about the crime from the very first page (the first sentence in fact, if I remember correctly) and we spend the rest of the book examining the characters and seeing the many small details that led to the crime as well as the aftermath and the repercussions.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I wonder if this isn't more a case of a sort of folie à deux. In Chapter 18, Eunice is thinking that she'll "avoid Joan" and leave Greeving without speaking to her. This is after she gets fired; I don't believe that she was planning to do anything to anyone in the family for revenge. Unfortunately for her, the plan to not see Joan didn't work out.

Does anyone think Eunice would have acted alone and done something so horrible without Joan?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Joan was the loaded of the 'lock, (or rather unlocked), and loaded' partnership in my mind. Eunice wouldn't have done anything without Joan.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Nancy wrote: "I wonder if this isn't more a case of a sort of folie à deux. In Chapter 18, Eunice is thinking that she'll "avoid Joan" and leave Greeving without speaking to her. This is after she gets fired; I ..."

Great points. And the fact that we are discussing it as though the perpetrators are real people is a testament to the skill of the author in breathing life into the characters. The way the story is told, I would guess that Joan and Eunice needed to act together to commit this crime, and neither of them would have carried it off on their own, although perhaps Joan might have been more likely to have a violent outburst in her (apparently) schizophrenic state.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I'm also sort of amazed at how many times Jacqueline ignored the other people in her family who "warned" her about Eunice. I think I put a tab on the page every time that came up in the novel, and I remember thinking "why aren't you listening?" I don't often talk to book characters, but this time I couldn't help it.

[Rob]

Nancy wrote: "I wonder if this isn't more a case of a sort of folie à deux. In Chapter 18, Eunice is thinking that she'll "avoid Joan" and leave Greeving without speaking to her. This is after she gets fired; I ..."

I do think she might have murdered the family even without Joan's influence. We already know she's capable of shocking violence - she smothered her father with a pillow over irritation at his pronunciation of her name. I'm not saying she would actively plan to murder them - she doesn't actively plan anything. But I could see George asking if she needed help reading a bus schedule for example, trying to be helpful as he kicks her out of the house she loves, and pushing her over the edge into violence.

Of course, whether she alone would have been able to kill all four...

[Christi]

Nancy wrote: "Does anyone think Eunice would have acted alone and done something so horrible without Joan?"

While she certainly was already capable of murder due to what she did to her father, part of me wonders if she would have been able to kill all four without Joan. If I remember correctly toward the beginning it discussed her need to find a type of 'release' so to say (my words, not the books). She clearly has very limited emotional range and so I wonder if having Joan with her kept her amped-up and unable to moderate her own control over her emotional state and situation.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I think I might have to agree with Christi on this one, but Rob's comment

"But I could see George asking if she needed help reading a bus schedule for example, trying to be helpful as he kicks her out of the house she loves, and pushing her over the edge into violence."

also is food for thought, since she was obviously unhappy with Melinda's attempts at treating her as an equal.

[Rob]

Nancy wrote: "I think I might have to agree with Christi on this one, but Rob's comment

"But I could see George asking if she needed help reading a bus schedule for example, trying to be helpful as he kicks he..."

That was the most heartbreaking part of the book for me - that Melinda, with the absolute noblest of intentions, was unknowingly the person who did the most to trigger the murders

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Rob wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I think I might have to agree with Christi on this one, but Rob's comment

"But I could see George asking if she needed help reading a bus schedule for example, trying to be helpful ..."

Re Melinda: Eunice chose the wrong person to try to blackmail.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I read an interesting article today about A Dark-Adapted Eye, by Barbara Vine. I thought I'd share it with you; the author imagines listening in on the Edgar Awards Committee talking about the book. "If you give away the killer on page one, and it turns out it really is the killer ....

https://www.criminalelement.com/the-e...

[Tone]

Thanks for the link, Nancy. This book made a deep impression on me too. To "give away the killer on page one" can work well when it's done right, and Rendell/Vine was a master.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Tone wrote: "Thanks for the link, Nancy. This book made a deep impression on me too. To "give away the killer on page one" can work well when it's done right, and Rendell/Vine was a master."

You're very welcome, Tone.

[Christi]

I'm really glad this book was selected. It is so different than other types of books I've read in this same genre and it was nice to have a change of pace.

What I especially loved though was every time the narrator broke the 4th wall (I can't think of anything better to call it) and would talk to the characters after-the-fact showing them where they made mistakes, or where things could have been avoided if only they had made another choice. One of my favorite sentences was when the narrator says

"Why not phone back, Jacqueline? Dial that number again now."

In just those two sentences you immediately get an overall sense of foreboding as well as the helplessness and frustration that the narrator feels.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

"It is so different than other types of books I've read in this same genre and it was nice to have a change of pace."

I agree with you there. I get so bored with same old same old -- it's nice to mix it up sometimes.

[Janice (JG)]

Nancy wrote: "I read an interesting article today about A Dark-Adapted Eye, by Barbara Vine. I thought I'd share it with you; the author imagines listening in on the Edgar Awards Committee talking about the book..."

Thank you for this, fascinating.. and I've downloaded it onto my Kindle.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

You're welcome. That book is also a bit of a slow burn but so very worth it in the long run.