Jewish Book Club discussion

Nemesis
This topic is about Nemesis
19 views
2020 Moderator's Choices > 2020/6 Final conclusions or reviews for Philip Roth's Nemesis--MOD'S CHOICE

Comments Showing 1-10 of 10 (10 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Rice | 3000 comments Mod
This is the discussion for final conclusions and/or reviews of Philip Roth's Nemesis. Spoilers okay since those posting here are presumed to have read the book.


message 2: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Rice | 3000 comments Mod
I had an audio version from Audible that sadly is no longer available, so unless your library has the audio on CD, you can't get that. Too bad! because it's very well narrated. The issue I had with the audio, though, was that the suspense built up for me and I couldn't wait, so stayed up late into the night to finish via old-fashioned reading, which can go faster. (I was thinking about that because staying up late to finish just happened again with another book.) The part that hooked me was the correspondence to an epidemic of polio (1944!). No one knew the cause, so there was plenty of well-meaning advice but no answers. I loved the book and was galvanized by it. The variation from perfection as far as I'm concerned is the ending. Endings for novels must be very, very hard! I thought the outcome was overly draconian and also went according to a sort-of outdated moral code. Nevertheless, this book should be read, and it won't take long. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


message 3: by Tamar (new)

Tamar Frankiel | 9 comments I was a bit disappointed with this book, expecting more from Philip Roth. It is an easy read, but the characters seemed flat -- although perhaps just from a more innocent era where an author could portray uncomplicated characters. Even with Bucky Cantor, there are hints as to why he ended up the way he did, but not a convincing sense of inner development (or collapse). Also, the sudden reinsertion of the narrator at the end seemed artificial -- a way to account for what didn't happen earlier in the novel.


Susan I agree completely.


message 5: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Rice | 3000 comments Mod
Tamar wrote: "I was a bit disappointed with this book, expecting more from Philip Roth. It is an easy read, but the characters seemed flat -- although perhaps just from a more innocent era where an author could ..."

It's well-known that Philip Roth's work is uneven, I guess that's the best way to state it, yet I wouldn't agree that the narrator aspect is necessarily an example of that. I've read six or seven of his books, and he does that -- starts with a narrator -- and then the narrator disappears as the story takes over. So that in itself is not an issue for me, although I don't think that's what you're saying, but rather that the narrator had to carry too much of a burden at the end. ..By the time I came to the end, I think I'd forgotten there had been a narrator. Was there one at the beginning?

For me, the character of the protagonist Bucky Cantor was completely convincing at the beginning and all through the body of the book. My difficulty was at the end. If anything, he collapsed into pathos, and the tale became a morality tale, albeit conforming to some outdated code.

As I said in my 1st comment, the fact I had the audio helped. Great audio narration, sadly not readily available.

I'm happy people are reading this, even when it didn't meet entirely with your approval! Roth -- still providing us grist for the mill! 😛


Susan I kind of reviewed this book elsewhere but I’ll put my few cents in here anyway.

I remember the summer of polio vividly. The images of iron lungs so well described by Roth terrified my six year old self. So as an historical, albeit fictional, account, of the polio epidemic, Nemesis was a good reminder of that scary time, and it raised some similarities (hysteria, fear, not knowing what to do) and differences (contagion) to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

But as a story I thought it was very flat and often boring. I could not relate to any of the characters (except perhaps the not so unknown narrator, which I thought was a pretty weak literary device), because they all seemed so two-dimensional.

In particular, I found Bucky Cantor (now there’s a literary device that worked - the image of the cantor encouraging people with his or her voice to worship, a sure-fire way of infecting people, as has been demonstrated by entire church choirs being infected with Covid -19 after one practice. Of course Roth didn’t know when he wrote Nemesis about 2020 but I have to believe the name choice was on purpose), an unappealing and unrelatable character. He is either applauding himself for his physical accomplishments or prowess or blaming himself entirely for bringing polio to untold numbers of children, a cross (word choice intended, with irony), his entire life. I think he gives himself at the same time too much credit and too much discredit.

In my earlier review, I observed that the title, Nemesis, was something I could not figure out at the time. At first I thought Roth meant that polio was the nemesis of the mid-twentieth century. Now I think he means Bucky Cantor created within himself a nemesis that was unnecessary.

The only other book by Roth that I remember, although I must have read more, is Goodbye Columbus, as well as the movie. That book was clearly satire. And the characters were as flat as those in Nemesis, purposely. It would be interesting to see what Roth himself had to say about Nemesis. Maybe it’s not fair for us to judge it as not his best work. Perhaps we might consider that writers make choices all the time, and it’s up to the reader to figure out why he or she made those choices. Or, maybe, it’s just not among his best.

Finally, I frequently nominate books or stories by Jacob M. Appel here. It took me YEARS to understand that there was a lot more to them than really good, funny, writing. YEARS. And we are email pen pals, and I met him once. When I finally figured out what he was doing in all his work, I whacked myself upside the head, and wrote him what could be the start of a scholarly discourse on his work. He’s that good. Maybe Philip Roth is that good, too. I’m inspired to investigate more of his body of work.


message 7: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Rice | 3000 comments Mod
Susan wrote: "I kind of reviewed this book elsewhere but I’ll put my few cents in here anyway.

I remember the summer of polio vividly. The images of iron lungs so well described by Roth terrified my six year o..."


There sure are a lot of books called "Nemesis!"

After Philip Roth's death, a lot publications were recommending the ones they thought should be read, and one recommended The Dying Animal. Nope. Don't read that one.

I never read the two early ones, Goodbye Columbus & Portnoy's Complaint, although I saw the movies way back when.

Read American Pastoral with another group. I'd listened on Audible before but got a lot out of actually reading. It's the best. Not a light read though.


message 8: by Jonathan (last edited Jun 24, 2020 06:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jonathan | 224 comments Hi I just finished this book last night. I have a love of reading history books. So anytime I come upon a period of history that I am not familiar with, I am intrigued especially when it happens in the 20th century. The comments on this book were very interesting both pro and con. for myself this was a book that I found I could not put down and ended up reading in a couple of days.

Kudos to the moderators for picking such a befitting book for the time that we are in. It was hard for me not to make comparisons between COVID and Polio.

The main character Bucky, I did identify with. I understood his decisions on that time and the harrowing disappointment of anticipating the life he planned and the life he was given. It was all very sad to read and at times I did have to walk away for a few minutes from reading. I could understand both characters love for each other being so great and how they both envisioned different outcomes for their lives. For Marcia always to be with the man she loved and for Bucky wanting only the best and most for her. Convinced he could never provide it.

This is the second Philip Roth book I read. The first was Portnoy's Complaint. A much different read. I am pretty much hooked and still want to read The Plot Against America and the American Pastoral trilogy.

After reading Nemesis, I had to look up Polio and one of the causes is infected fecal manner entering the mouth. So I found Roth's insertion of Horace in the story very interesting. Although after the Blumenthal incident he never expanded on the possibility that Bucky shaking his hand as well as other children might have been the cause of the Polio spread.


message 9: by Jan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jan Rice | 3000 comments Mod
Jonathan wrote: "Hi I just finished this book last night. I have a love of reading history books. So anytime I come upon a period of history that I am not familiar with, I am intrigued especially when it happens in..."

Thanks, Jonathan!

Here's a review/discussion that appeared in Tablet, maybe while I was reading it: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/co...

I'm chagrined to say I had for all these years had a mistaken idea of the cause of polio.


Jonathan | 224 comments Thanks Jan, very interesting article. I thought a lot about Jonas Salk while reading the book.


back to top