Outlander Series discussion
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echo - what are your thoughts so far?
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Lori wrote: "Erin wrote: "Lori wrote: "I agree somewhat.He married Claire for Jamie's sake, not Claire's.
I disagree with the possession part though. John knows Claire well enough to know that nobody, with the..."
True.
Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?And for pete's sakes LJ is a..."
Renee, it's like you and I are twins. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Erin wrote: "Kelly wrote: "I just read a review for Echo. They said they would recommend reading the Lord John books if you haven't because there are quite a few characters that were only in Lord John and not..."I've read the Lord John books. I don't like him, never have; he gives me the heeby jeebies.
I'm going to have to read Lord John and the Scottish Prisoner though, because I MUST digest all things Jamie...but I won't like it.
Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?And for pete's..."
You ladies seem to forget that LJG married a woman for Jamie's sake before and had sex with her...Geneva's sister.
Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?..."
I'm with you... Its not like he isnt capable of the job, afterall. The mechanics are the same. I am not bothered by DG's decision on the 'Claire and LJG' thing in the slightest. Unless someone experiences that sort of soul shattering greif, no-one can say what one would or would not do. Claire had no-one, Jamie presumably dead, Bree, Roger and the grandkids back in the future... She was trying to figure out the best way to end her life for god sakes, she obvioulsy was not of a whole mind. Nor was LJG for that matter.. He, like Claire just lost the love of his life, his best friend, and confidant.. Both being besides themselves with greif, turned to eachother for comfort. Everyone is putting WAY too much emphasis on the actual act.. When it was the need for human contact, and comfort that was the focus. The need to escape reality and the pain, if even for a moment. Not to mention that Claire was wasted, and LJG was livid. They needed eachother.. and were there for eachother, and LJG saved her from herself... and she from him. Sorry.. I just had to put my 2 cents in... LOL.
Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?..."
Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?
..."
No, I haven't forgotten that at all. I don't think it goes against human nature for LJ to sleep with women; that wasn't the problem. The part I can't believe is that he'd sleep with Claire and that she'd sleep with him. It just isn't a believable twist of plot.
It's almost like DG totally forgot about, or disregarded, who would actually be reading her book when she finished writing the sub-plot that is Claire and LJ.
LJ has sacrificed a lot of himself over the years for Jamie, hence Geneva's sister and the rearing of Willie. Every sacrifice he made was because he knew it would benefit Jamie in some way, which is why LJ's marriage to Claire is believable and his sleeping with Claire isn't; intercourse with his wife would in no way benefit Jamie.
I find it entirely implausible to believe that Claire and LJ both would totally disregard every moral and intelligent characteristic that they have possessed and honed with regards to their relationship with Jamie and each other for over the last, what, 30-ish years, because of one night of intoxication and grief.
Since when has Claire, scientific by nature, jumped to such conclusions in the past?
I find the whole event poorly written and hard to digest. I may be cold and insufficiently understanding when it comes to their grief, but come on. Marry her, yes. Sleep with her?
Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the..."Thanks, Shell!!!!
My thoughts exactly.
And besides, Jamie didn't even seem to be upset about it. What did he say when John told him?
"Oh? Why?"
Does that sound like a heartbroken response?
Lori wrote: "Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's t..."Well.. That has yet to be seen. He was probably not expecting LJG to tell him that.. He was most likely shocked. I dont think he'll take it in stride, but I do think he'll forgive them both.
BTW girls, I'm loving this. Things are finally getting interesting in the "Echo - What are your thoughts so far?" discussion.
Heather wrote: "BTW girls, I'm loving this. Things are finally getting interesting in the "Echo - What are your thoughts so far?" discussion."lmao...
Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a ti..."He's totally going to forgive him. Like you, I don't think he'll take it in stride though.
He should get a freebee with the woman of his choice for his efforts though.
Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Shell wrote: "Lori wrote: "Heather wrote: "Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a ti..."Jamie will probably just make some comment about how she must be a witch if even gay men want to sleep with her and be done with it. lol
Heather wrote: "BTW girls, I'm loving this. Things are finally getting interesting in the "Echo - What are your thoughts so far?" discussion."Lots of thoughts.
Too many thoughts, actually!
Echo was definitely a tougher read for me than the rest because of all the jumping around. I'm sure it was necessary to set up what will happen in the next book though.
I'm happy to see that things Diana touched on in previous novels will likely reappear and be resolved...like the Fraser prophecy. I wondered when that was gonna come back and it looks like it's on it's way with Rob Cameron.
Yes, I'm sure DG has a reason for it all, and the light will be shed, in 2-2 1/2 years or so. But really, she's genius. Truly.. whether you loath, love or tolerate her ending of 'Echo', she managed to get everyone riled, and contemplative. Which, was of course her intention. lol.
Shell wrote: "Yes, I'm sure DG has a reason for it all, and the light will be shed, in 2-2 1/2 years or so. But really, she's genius. Truly.. whether you loath, love or tolerate her ending of 'Echo', she managed..."I couldn't agree more.
lol never even noticed till you pointed it out I've probably done it myself
Chantal wrote: "Sorry, but what does LMAO mean? TIA!"Laugh My Ass Off. :)
Shell & Lori I agree with you both. I have been trying to think how to word exactly what you so eloquently composed, Shell. Thank you for posting your comments. I was wondering if anyone had given that level of grief a second thought. We all react differntly and that was Claire and LJ's way of finding some comfort with the only other person who could totally understand their utter despair.This is exactly why I like these books, becasue you just never know what is next or how the people effected will necessarily react.
Mary wrote: "Shell & Lori I agree with you both. I have been trying to think how to word exactly what you so eloquently composed, Shell. Thank you for posting your comments. I was wondering if anyone had giv..."Your welcome... It's what I do... lol
I have just returned to 2010 after spending the last few months with Jamie, Claire and everybody!! I bought the audio books (first four books) and have totally lost touch with my own reality..LOL. I think my family is happy to have me back! Listening to the audio has been so good and brought everyone so much to life. I have started my second read of FC because I can't bring myself to listen to it 'abridged'now I know how Jamie and all sound!!!! well...I will need to re-read ABSA because it is abridged also. I have bought Echo on audio and will have a listen when I am done the reading.
The audio has brought to light so many extra bits and I must say more enlightenment. I have come to love LJG and have new found respect and empathy for him (I think like Jamie does). I agree with other commentors that he is very much like Jamie in character; committed, loyal, passionate, and loves without selfishness, he has a dry sense of humour and irony that is very British, that I love. He is committed to Jamie and is bound to, not just him, but the whole family. I just love the scene in 'Drums' when he and Brianna have 'the talk' and he offers engagement as a solution because he cannot marry her, and then risks his life and reputation not to mention Jamie's horror if he finds out...to take her to see Bonnet. He shows insight, humour, honesty and all the qualities of a good friend.
I feel so sad for him. I think what he did for Claire by marrying her was totally what he would do for Jamie under the circumstances...well! however...I think they both went to far with it because of the state they were in.
I think LJG will die...but it will not be at Jamie's hand...but necessary for Jamie and Claire's relationship and for the developing of William and Jamie's relationship....it brings a lump to my throat imagining how that will be for Jamie, Claire, William and Brianna. they all love him in their own way...how can I not love him also...and weep for him (I think DG will grieve him also and have us all in tears.
She will need to finish the LJ series first though.
I am also not in a hurry anymore for the next book...I want her to take her time and not rush through story lines (like I think happened at the end of Echo). It will give all us crazy fans time to really read/listen and digest all the books to date and be truly ready for the next that will be exceptional.
The audio has brought to light so many extra bits and I must say more enlightenment. I have come to love LJG and have new found respect and empathy for him (I think like Jamie does). I agree with other commentors that he is very much like Jamie in character; committed, loyal, passionate, and loves without selfishness, he has a dry sense of humour and irony that is very British, that I love. He is committed to Jamie and is bound to, not just him, but the whole family. I just love the scene in 'Drums' when he and Brianna have 'the talk' and he offers engagement as a solution because he cannot marry her, and then risks his life and reputation not to mention Jamie's horror if he finds out...to take her to see Bonnet. He shows insight, humour, honesty and all the qualities of a good friend.
I feel so sad for him. I think what he did for Claire by marrying her was totally what he would do for Jamie under the circumstances...well! however...I think they both went to far with it because of the state they were in.
I think LJG will die...but it will not be at Jamie's hand...but necessary for Jamie and Claire's relationship and for the developing of William and Jamie's relationship....it brings a lump to my throat imagining how that will be for Jamie, Claire, William and Brianna. they all love him in their own way...how can I not love him also...and weep for him (I think DG will grieve him also and have us all in tears.
She will need to finish the LJ series first though.
I am also not in a hurry anymore for the next book...I want her to take her time and not rush through story lines (like I think happened at the end of Echo). It will give all us crazy fans time to really read/listen and digest all the books to date and be truly ready for the next that will be exceptional.
Shell wrote: "Mary wrote: "Shell & Lori I agree with you both. I have been trying to think how to word exactly what you so eloquently composed, Shell. Thank you for posting your comments. I was wondering if a..."I also agree with your take on LJ and Claire. It never really upset me in a way that i thought it was wrong, but i just knew it would cause trouble for all of them cuz jamie wasn't dead(can't wait to find out what happens in the next book!!!). I love both of the characters (LJ & Claire) so much. And Im also glad that Diana Gabaldon didn't go on and on and on about how depressed claire was. I think that was obvious without the discription. I couldn't stand New Moon in the Twilight sereis. Its hard to read a whole book about how someones life is over and there is no hope, tho im sure that is how claire felt. Claire is a great main character. I love her. And of course I love Jamie. Thanks
Is no one upset with the way DG left us in such a lurch with Brianna and family? Nobody's mentioned that plot line.
You will find that discussion somewhere in the older posts; those of us who read the book the minute it came out and were posting at the time had plenty to say about that.Something like, "what the *%@#?"
I just finished Echo for the 2nd time. I really loved it; because knowing, in the back of my mind, how things develop I was able to put them in perspective. I felt more optimistic at the end than the first time around. I know things will be alright; the details unfolding will be the fun part- so many characters, so many possibilities!
Shay wrote: "Poor Ian!! Oh poor poor Ian!! (I'd marry him and take my chances!)"I agree with you :) I cried when he went and met emily... He just needs a good woman.
Renee wrote: "'echo in the bone' was mentioned a couple of times in a couple of books. But that still has naught to do with this book as a title. What's the echo in the bone here?And for pete's sakes LJ is a..."
I just spit hot tea all over my keyboard! "The only believable part was the fart!" LOL. So true!
He married Claire for Jamie's sake, not Claire's.
I disagree with the possession part though. John knows Claire well enough to know that nobody, with the exception of..."
You have to remember that at the time Jamie entrusted Willie's care to John, Willie was the only thing Jamie had...and he had to leave because he loved him so much.
At the time, Claire was lost to Jamie forever(or so he thought). I truly think Willie gave him back his will to live.